[Closed] jacob rees mogg dog

However when conception has been violently forced upon an individual, then I don't understand what kind of person, religious or otherwise, genuinely believes the correct thing to do would be to carry and raise the child..

On the other hand, if you believe that human life begins at conception, you may not understand why someone else might advocate the murder of a child that has committed no crime.

Farron had to resign for being a Christian let's hope this **** gets his arse kicked for it as well.

So if you are Christian then you aren't allowed to be in a political party then?

While any socially conservative policies supported by Mogg would struggle to get through parliament, if he became Tory leader and hence PM it'd be a fairly safe bet that we wouldn't see much in the way of socially liberal legislation coming up for debate so on that level his personal morality is an issue.

Be interesting to see if he believes in that bible passage about rapists having to marry the victim and pay her father 2 silver coins as punishment..

I'm pretty sure you're stretching at the limits of credulity there to link "being christian" with believing or following every single little bit of the bible.

So if you are Christian then you aren't allowed to be in a political party then?

Let's not forget that mogg has no beard, the hypocritical ****.
May he burn in hell for his sins.
Maybe in a mogg government the DUP will be a moderating influence.
I ****ing hate tories.

You are not allowed to be a Christian - FULL STOP - get with the game, remember where you are....and as for CATHOLIC

While freedom of choice and freedom of expression are to be protected, I kind of struggle with this. Yes, he's not saying he'd outlaw it, but he is saying that he actively disapproves and voted against it

I am not a racist BUT.....

The issue is whether his views being incompatible with a country that mainly doesn't have an issue with these matters, makes him a suitable potential leader for that country. Can he set aside his views....

Clearly, he said as much.

he said as much

Case closed then

You would imagine so....

"On the other hand, if you believe that human life begins at conception, you may not understand why someone else might advocate the murder of a child that has committed no crime.

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST"

It is a belief born out of deep rooted misogyny not rational thought. His belief carries no weight, a clump of cells is not an individual with conscience or self determination.

He'd probably happily kill a fully grown primate though.

He can believe what he wants but I reserve the right to think of him little better than a rapist.

I’m sure Jacob and I would get on like a house on fire. Preferably his.

Rachel

Thrilled to watch this a minute ago. My daughter has just started year 7 at a Catholic secondary school this morning. If they try and instill this horrendous doctrine into her I'll expect her to stand up and throw their intolerance right back.at them and down their throats. And this **** want to.be leader of the country...? Scary shit!!!!

I’m sure Jacob and I would get on like a house on fire. Preferably his.

Dinner with the Moggs

The dulcet tones of tolerance ring out..

...why on earth would you send your daughter to a Catholic School??? Scary shit...

However when conception has been violently forced upon an individual, then I don't understand what kind of person, religious or otherwise, genuinely believes the correct thing to do would be to carry and raise the child..

You'd accept the correct thing would be to carry and raise the child after 24 weeks.

I assume that the reasons you think that's correct are the same as Rees Mogg. You're just quibbling about where the magic point occurs.

a clump of cells is not an individual with conscience or self determination

Nor is an unborn child at 30 weeks.

His belief carries no weight, a clump of cells is not an individual with conscience or self determination.

Neither, it could be argued, is a newborn baby. So why is killing one murder and not killing the other misogyny? Why does your belief carry more weight than Rees Mogg's?

Neither, it could be argued, is a newborn baby

it could be argued

but you'd loose that argument

Mogg has said these things so publicly because he knows they are unpopular

He doesnt want the top job while Brexit is going on, he knows that its going to taint the PM

thats why Maybot is still in the job, shes so damaged that it doesnt really matter

her colleagues will happily let her soak up the blame for it all then start knifing each other when they think they have enough distance.

You'd accept the correct thing would be to carry and raise the child after 24 weeks. I assume that the reasons you think that's correct are the same as Rees Mogg. You're just quibbling about where the magic point occurs.

Yeah, but I'd use science and evidence to come to my conclusion, not some outdated beliefs based upon an ancient book about a fictional character in the sky.

The dulcet tones of tolerance ring out..

...why on earth would you send your daughter to a Catholic School??? Scary shit...

You do have to wonder exactly what sort of person would send their child to a Catholic school and then complain about the risk of them being indoctrinated in the beliefs of the Catholic Church 😯

I can only presume that it's the same type of mindset that leads to people taking a job miles away from home because it pays better and then complaining about the time and cost of the commute 😆

Neither, it could be argued, is a newborn baby. So why is killing one murder and not killing the other misogyny? Why does your belief carry more weight than Rees Mogg's?

That's my take on it. When life begins is completely arbitary. You could argue an person with advanced dementia was no longer a person. You could reasonably argue (as ancient Romans and Greeks did) that a newborn babdy wasn't enough of a person to have an automatic right to life. You could go the other way and argue that every time people of the opposite gender who were in a position to have unprotected sex, but failed to, had cost a human life.

It's completely subjective. Even if you don't agree, 'conception' seems like a perfectly logical point to consider life to start. I'd consider murdering a woman who was 16 weeks pregnant a worse crime than murdering an individual.

it could be argued

but you'd loose that argument

I'm not arguing, I'm trying to question beliefs that are so ingrained the individuals spouting them don't even realise they are beliefs.

But I'm interested in your opinion. When DOES a "clump of cells" become and "individual with conscience or self determination"?

(I don't know. I would have said at about 4/5 years old)

I'd use science and evidence to come to my conclusion

You'd use science and evidence to answer a purely philosophical question?

Perhaps you could state the evidence that a meaningful human life begins at 24 weeks rather than conception, or 23 weeks, or 3 days old.

But I'm interested in your opinion. When DOES a "clump of cells" become and "individual with conscience or self determination"?
(I don't know. I would have said at about 4/5 years old)

I think it's a *lot* earlier than 4/5 years, but it's probably after the birth IMHO.

That's my take on it. When life begins is completely arbitary. You could argue an person with advanced dementia was no longer a person. You could reasonably argue (as ancient Romans and Greeks did) that a newborn babdy wasn't enough of a person to have an automatic right to life. You could go the other way and argue that every time people of the opposite gender who were in a position to have unprotected sex, but failed to, had cost a human life.

The latter point is some sort of fallacy, I just cant be bothered to determine which one it is.

I mean, it's so philosophically and logically trite I'd rather gargle buckshot than engage with it.

There is a perfectly logical line between infanticide and abortion, does it feel pain?

joeydeacon - Member
Yeah, but I'd use science and evidence to come to my conclusion, not some outdated beliefs based upon an ancient book about a fictional character in the sky.

But the issue/compromise at the moment is that the latest date for an abortion is around the same time as advances has allowed the baby to become viable.

Frankly it's a minefield and I don't envy anyone who has to make decisions in it.

But stifling the debate by denouncing all those who believe that 'life' starts earlier as only following the guidance "ancient book about a fictional character in the sky", is insulting to everyone.

But its true....

Did you expect a man who named his child "Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher" to be rational and anything other than a world class bore?

Tom_W1987 - Member
But its true....

I'm atheist and I'm at best uneasy about abortion.

That makes one of us then....

Id feel more guilty about shooting a grouse.

How come the I'm-more-liberal-than-thou STW bedwetters are so keen to respect the most outlandish beliefs - whether religious or cultural - and yet you refuse to respect the religious beliefs of JRM?

There are none more bigoted than self-professed liberals.

Because he is a ****.

I’m sure Jacob and I would get on like a house on fire. Preferably his.

councilof10 - Member
How come the I'm-more-liberal-than-thou STW bedwetters are so keen to respect the most outlandish beliefs - whether religious or cultural - and yet you refuse to respect the religious beliefs of JRM?

There are none more bigoted than self-professed liberals.

please show me where us lefties respect these outlandsh beliefs?

I think its all in your head!

How come the I'm-more-liberal-than-thou STW bedwetters are so keen to respect the most outlandish beliefs - whether religious or cultural - and yet you refuse to respect the religious beliefs of JRM?

I've been banned more than once for crossing the line in threads on terrorism...

please show me where us lefties respect these outlandsh beliefs?

If he was a moderate muslim, who voted in a similar way, maybe even voted against pro-alcohol laws; took a hard line on decency or pornography laws, the sit-down-pissers of STW would feel compelled to demonstrate how "right-on" they are by supporting his right to let his faith dictate his views.

The reason people are so intolerant of Mogg's views aren't because he's a Catholic, it's because he's posh!

Like I said, bigots. Bitter little bigots.

There is a perfectly logical line between infanticide and abortion, does it feel pain?

At what age can a fetus feel pain?

But the issue/compromise at the moment is that the latest date for an abortion is around the same time as advances has allowed the baby to become viable.

Frankly it's a minefield and I don't envy anyone who has to make decisions in it.

Yeah. I was reading awhile back that unborn babies at 23 weeks can survive but always with disability, often severe. Because of this many doctors abroad do not keep 23 week old fetuses alive. In the UK we keep them alive at 23 weeks and some horrifically disabled people are born because of that. Who's wrong? ****ed if I know. Beats me how anyone can say 24 weeks is the only valid answer and everyone else is wrong.

Frankly, it seems to be the three most logical points for considering 'life' to have begun are birth, conception and perhaps 3 months.

It's that same phenomenon that makes kids like panto. An uber-stereo type caricature act that everyone thinks they can easily either boo or cheer, without having to try too hard to think about stuff.

A sad indictment of where our politics are.

Nahhh you're just a butt hurt conservative.

At what age can a fetus feel pain?

After the current abortion limit. Its easy to look it up.

the sit-down-pissers of STW

Like I said, bigots. Bitter little bigots.

I think we need to talk about your chakras

perhaps some crystal healing will realign your energy flows?

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Frankly, it seems to be the three most logical points for considering 'life' to have begun are birth, conception and perhaps 3 months.

Misses the point, we arent arguing where life began - we are arguing over when we can morally terminate it.

Moggs interpretation of that is soley based on a book of sky fairies and myth.

After the current abortion limit.

Cite!

Its easy to look it up.

Good, you won't take long to find it, then.

Frankly, it seems to be the three most logical points for considering 'life' to have begun are birth, conception and perhaps 3 months.

That would make sense to me but I'm glad I've never been in a position where I've had to make a decision based on this.

Third trimester or 27 weeks.

Well after your three month limit.

Third trimester or 27 weeks.

Cite!