[Closed] Israel well done...

shush! or you'll wake up kaesae!

ultimately they all hate the western world

You've obviously never been to the middle east!

Lovely people, and lovely countries. Just a few extremists (as have every country).

Have been many times...

Just a few extremists (as have every country). This is true...take the "all" back...

Also, you do know that Israel was created by in the 20th Century (with Britain's help). We basically took a chunk of land from the Palestinians, gave them some money and said 'These are your new neighbours, like it or lump it'. You might feel a bit peeved if someone came along and did that to your home town / country, especially if the new neighbours kept deciding they wanted more land, but couldn't even be bothered to offer money for it and just rolled in a few tanks and took what they wanted.....

It's far from black and white in the middle east - and Israel hold the record for UN decrees against it for it's aggressive behaviour and land stealing.....

I know all the history...thanks

land stealing....britain was good at that as well...

Israel arent angels but the UN and its resolutions can go take a running jump. You want something approved by the Security Council? Better go cap in hand to Putin's Politburo and the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party.

How ARE we going to solve "The Jewish Problem", eh?

I know all the history...thanks

Well your initial post came across as if you had no idea about the ME and just wanted to start sh*t stirring.

How ARE we going to solve "The Jewish Problem", eh? -thats a bit off mate !

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not at all...proud of my roots etc...

like the rest of the world are any better...North Korea china french british to name but a few...

unfitgeezer - Member

How ARE we going to solve "The Jewish Problem", eh? -thats a bit off mate !

Not to some on STW Forum, it would seem...

then they are all racist ??!?! how do they feel about other religions ???? mmmm

My main issue with the conflict is the moment anyone shows any degree of sympathy for the Palestinian's plight, they are labelled as terrorist sympathisers and anti semitic.

I personally have nothing against any individual regardless of their religion or skin colour - but over the years the Israeli actions against the Palestinians are pretty disproportionate - compare the number of casualties on both sides.

The Palestinians are oppressed 24/7 - being treated like livestock, denied access to medical supplies and forced to go through checkpoint after checkpoint at gun point just to function in every day life. I'm sure if the same conditions were imposed on people from this country then some of us would retaliate. I'm not justifying the Palestinian actions - any loss of life is totally inexcusable - however the extremists only launch rockets and commit acts of terrorism in what they see as a last resort.

I personally have nothing against any individual regardless of their religion

That's jolly good. Shame all the people in the conflict aren't like you - religion being the WHOLE of the problem.

As usual.

There is nothing more dangerous than someone who has nothing to lose and most Palestinians fall into that category....

The Palestinians are oppressed 24/7 - being treated like livestock, denied access to medical supplies and forced to go through checkpoint after checkpoint at gun point just to function in every day life. I'm sure if the same conditions were imposed on people from this country then some of us would retaliate. I'm not justifying the Palestinian actions - any loss of life is totally inexcusable - however the extremists only launch rockets and commit acts of terrorism in what they see as a last resort.

and you read this where...? i know for a fact that the non extrimists get along very well...even working together in hospitals...

religion being the WHOLE of the problem.

Hardly, religion is just their flavour of politics.

It was never going to go well from the off. Whoever thought you could just create a new country, by force, in someone else's territory - that's hardly going to end well.........

The whole thing is such a mess.

On the one hand I have a huge amount of sympathy for the Jewish people after the second world war - what they went through was unimaginable and I can see why they behave as they do. On the other hand, I have a huge amount of sympathy for the Palestinians who have got a very bum deal out of the creation of the state of Israel and continue to suffer massively every day.

Muslims hate Jews. Jews hate Muslims.

Of course - just politics...

Muslims hate Jews. Jews hate Muslims.

Hmm, ever been there and talked to them about it? I've worked there and most Jewish people are appalled by how their government behaves on occasion (which did surprise me).

After the war, efforts we're made to partition the region known as Palestine into a Jewish territory and an Arab territory. The Jews accepted the proposal but the Arabs rejected it and war ensued....Israel was then declared in 1948.
Foolish decision by the Arab leaders at the time, how much different would things have been if both parties had agreed on that deal?

Foolish decision by the Arab leaders at the time

Hardly a fair deal though if you're Arab? It's like offering you a 50% pay cut in return for nothing. I can sort of see why they weren't keen at the time.

Even so, if Israel had stuck to the original borders, there would be a lot less trouble.....

Having been to Israel, Saudi, Jordon and Eygpt in the last few months I can say that most people I have met are just trying to get on with their lives and they don't particularly hate their "enemies" they just distrust them. I haven't been to Gaza etc which is probably more extreme.

BTW all this recent stuff is probably the Israeli government stirring things up to seem strong before the upcoming election.

Of all the places I've worked in, the ME is by far my favourite, the people are just so nice and warm.

How ARE we going to solve "The Jewish Problem", eh?

It's not a 'Jewish problem'.

Muslims hate Jews. Jews hate Muslims.

SOME Muslims hate Jews; SOME Jews hate Muslims. In reality, most actually get along fine, as do Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Atheists.

To reduce the situation of the situation between Israel and Palestine to a 'Jewish Problem' is staggeringly ignorant and dismissive of all other factors involved in the conflict.

Most Jews I know hate the actions of the Israeli military against Palestinians.

Most Muslims I know abhor the actions of extreme fundamentalists.

And all the people I choose to associate with agree that we should all try to get along irrespective of our differences.

But continue to generalise if you want. Just don't expect anyone to take your views seriously.

After the war, efforts we're made to partition the region known as Palestine into a Jewish territory and an Arab territory. The Jews accepted the proposal but the Arabs rejected it and war ensued....Israel was then declared in 1948.

**** me, that's an interesting interpretation. Do you for for the Israeli propaganda department? If not you ought to!

footflaps - Member
Also, you do know that Israel was created by in the 20th Century (with Britain's help). We basically took a chunk of land from the Palestinians, gave them some money and said 'These are your new neighbours, like it or lump it'. You might feel a bit peeved if someone came along and did that to your home town / country, especially if the new neighbours kept deciding they wanted more land,

Is this England you're refering to or Palestine/Israel? It sounds very much like Britain with it's ever increasing imposed immigrant population and the "like it or lump it" attitude that goes with it.

I say just ban all religion, it's only tosh so people don't worry so much about dying anyway yet it's used to justify the worst of mankind's abuses

Mankind = maggots ... 😆

After the war, efforts we're made to partition the region known as Palestine into a Jewish territory and an Arab territory. The Jews accepted the proposal but the Arabs rejected it and war ensued....Israel was then declared in 1948.
Foolish decision by the Arab leaders at the time, how much different would things have been if both parties had agreed on that deal?

More like; the Arabs were told 'this is what's happening and you have no say in the matter, like it or lump it'. Harldy a genuine negotiation where both parties were happy at the outcome. 'We're taking this land and that's that'. Not exactly a 'negotiation'.

Guesss what? They didn't like it. and we are where we are.

How can we be sure this isn't all just a clever cross-platform marketing stunt for the current series of 'Homeland'?

Religion / Politics / Tribalism, it's all the same thing, just the details of how different groups define themselves. Both Judaism and Islam and fundamentally peaceful religions, just that each camp has extremists who interpret things in a violent way to justify their behaviour.

mikeconnor - Member

How ARE we going to solve "The Jewish Problem", eh?

It's not a 'Jewish problem'.

Yes. I know. 🙄

Mankind = maggots

Unfair. Maggots at least serve a function by turning dead flesh into organic matter which provides nutrients for other organisms.

humans seem to do the opposite.

Life isn't fair, the winners usually have the biggest guns.
I say nuke the region and start again.

mikeconnor - Member

Are you an American? You don't seem to understand irony.

I say nuke the region and start again.

As I've already mentioned; nuking the USA would have a far greater positive global impact.

Are you an American? You don't seem to understand irony.

see my above comment.

Irony? sorry, I must have missed the tone of voice in your comment. Or perhaps you simply omitted to make this point clear.

I am sure its just a coincidence that this happened just after the US election......

Also its not a Jewish problem, its a Zionist and greed problem. You can't blame all the Jewish for a minority of nutters who happen to hold all the power. Most are just normal people, who want to get on with there lives.

Also its not a Jewish problem, its a Zionist and greed problem.

Speaking to 'normal' Israelis, they said their government was being held to ransom by an extreme minority (ransom being votes), who disproportionally dictated a very anti-Palestinian rhetoric.

That my understanding of the situation as well.

I said it on the other thread. Arm them all to the teeth, nukes, biological weapons, the whole shooting match.

Then tell Ahmadinejad that Benjamin Netanyahu was peaking under his missus's Burkha and said she had a fat arse. Simply stand back and watch them wipe each other of the face of the earth, with UN giving it a sort of half-hearted "Leave it Darren! He's not worth it!" type routine.

Then we can start pumping the oil out and turn it into a big sandy theme park without any of the far-too-highly-strung natives, behaving in their usual frightful manner, detonating their suicide belts all over the shop. And we can all go and have a go at this....

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SOME Muslims hate Jews; SOME Jews hate Muslims. In reality, most actually get along fine, as do Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Atheists.

It's the Buddhists I can't stand

It was never going to go well from the off. Whoever thought you could just create a new country, by force, in someone else's territory - that's hardly going to end well.........

US of A, New Zealand, Australia, there are others. Went well for some, not so well for others

It's the Buddhists I can't stand

Me too. It's al that pacifism nonsense that really winds me up.

Yeah big divide in Israel at the moment - particularly because a high proportion of those that hold the most extreme views also have exemptions from military service because they do religious studies (they dont work either)...so they ramp up the rhetoric, act like a bunch of dicks in the settlements, but then disappear back to their religious studies when the shit hits the fan again.

The most worrying thing is that the birthrate amongst the ultra orthodox is huge compared to the rest of Israeli society (over 3 times the average) of so is likely going to be a bigger problem in the future.

Not if the arab world get round to using biological weapons, especailly the sort that can be genetically targeted against jews...

BTW all this recent stuff is probably the Israeli government stirring things up to seem strong before the upcoming election.

You mean the Israeli's stirring things up before they drop bombs on Iran!

The most worrying thing is that the birthrate amongst the ultra orthodox is huge compared to the rest of Israeli society (over 3 times the average) of so is likely going to be a bigger problem in the future

now that really is a sweeping statement and incredibly stupid thing to say...

but aren't ultra-orthodox jews mostly anti-zionism?

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and in fact, some are acvtually opposed to the existence of the state of Israel completely:

[img] [/img]

http://www.gadling.com/2012/06/13/ultra-orthodox-jews-suspected-of-vandalizing-jerusalem-holocaust/

So, why would the increase in births amongst ultra-orthodox Jews be 'worrying'?

Not if the arab world get round to using biological weapons, especailly the sort that can be genetically targeted against jews...

reminded me of this, for some reason...

“From a Jew’s face
The wicked Devil speaks to us,
The Devil who, in every country,
Is known as an evil plague.

Would we from the Jew be free,
Again be cheeful and happy,
Then must youth fight with us
To get rid of the Jewish Devil.”

😐

If you're interested in reading some first hand accounts of the situation in Israel/Palestine from an independent journalist I'd recommend

http://jodymcintyre.wordpress.com/2009/07/21/week-38-waiting-for-eviction/

independent journalist

Independent? That would imply he has no particular bias, I assume?

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/42749/wheelchair-protester-jody-mcintyre-schizophrenic-lunatic-israel

He certainly loves the sound of his own voice, but journalist? Hmm. Not sure.

Or perhaps you simply omitted to make this point clear.

Or perhaps you're just a bit thick. "The Jewish Problem" is, as perhaps you failed to recognise, sourced in Nazi propaganda.

This is, of course, [i]exactly[/i] the sort of thing I would support, isn't it?

No? What could I POSSIBLY have meant, then? 🙄

Or perhaps you're just a bit thick.

Oh right; so you make a statement without any hint as to it's intended irony, and i'm 'a bit thick'. Or possibly it's you who have difficulty in communicating clearly what you actually meant; that at least one other person also failed to spot your apprent irony, suggests that this is more likely the case. You see, I have no idea what your intention is with such a statement.

This is, of course, exactly the sort of thing I would support, isn't it?

No? What could I POSSIBLY have meant, then?

I don't know you from Adam, so I have no idea what your personal philosophies are. And given the level of ignorance displayed by some on this thread and many on this forum, it's entirely reasonable of me and indeed anyone esle, to take your comments literally. For all I know you could well be an anti-semite.

Perhaps in future you would be wise to make it clear to us 'thick' people, exactly what it is that you actually meant.

Independent? That would imply he has no particular bias, I assume?

So the Jewish Chronical would have no agenda against a person they consider to have 'a long history of anti-Israel and anti-western activism' then? Two sides.

You see, that article foreits it's own 'objectiveity' with irrelevant nonsense such as this:

Mr McIntyre, 20, who despite his presence at the university fees demonstration is not a student

So only those who are students are allowed to attend a demonstration which was protesting against something which will have a lasting, potentially very negative iompact on society? good sto see that JC 'journalist' being such an upstanding suporter of democracy and freedom of speech then (that's irony by the way in case anyone thought i was in fact serius).

Lot of bollocks being spouted on all sides. Somewhere in amongst it all, might be something of actual value. Not imediately apparent though.

Don't be having a go at the wopster. Say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, Mike. At least its an ethos. 😉

And do you know here can I get one of those big furry frisbee hats from? They look well cool! And toasty warm too! A win/win. Though I hope they're not real fur. That could sway my opinion towards the Palestinians 😀

Lot of bollocks being spouted on all sides. Somewhere in amongst it all, might be something of actual value. Not imediately apparent though.

I speak value 😉

 

Lot of bollocks being spouted on all sides. Somewhere in amongst it all, might be something of actual value. Not imediately apparent though.

This:

Joe - Member

The more I work in the region, the more I have completely irrational thoughts that the only solution might well be to annihilate the entire population of the region running from the Mediterranean coast of Lebanon/Israel and ending somewhere off the coast of Bahrain/Qatar.

It's a silly thing to say (of course) and I don't actually think that it's a sensible solution, yet the more time I spend in the Middle East the more I feel that the culture which pervades the entire region is one of utter menace and brutality.

Nothing will or can come good of the Middle East in the next 50 years.

Israel will always assert its right to defend itself, as any other "western" country in the world would also. Palestinians with good cause will continue to fight for what they perceive to be their own land, and the idea of a two state solution is quite silly. If you can bear to look at the issue from both sides (and not just to a STW style...* the Israelis...* the Palestinians type of thing) then you will realize that neither side is right, nor is either side wrong and that there is no solution which is satisfactory in the slightest bit to either party...so leave your western logic at home.

Further North in Lebanon and Syria, there will never be an end to sectarianism, as long as Iran and Saudi continue to fight proxy wars in the world.

In most of the rest of the region rising salafism will drive further mindless savagery against anyone who opposes it.

Sad outlook...but think back to this post in 20 years.

now that really is a sweeping statement and incredibly stupid thing to say...

As opposed to your original thought on this thread of "Israel well done"?

but aren't ultra-orthodox jews mostly anti-zionism?

and in fact, some are acvtually opposed to the existence of the state of Israel completely

So, why would the increase in births amongst ultra-orthodox Jews be 'worrying'?

Historically yes (and for those outside Israel probably still the case) and a sub section like Neturei Karta are still very anti-Zionist but much of the growth in settlements in the last couple of decades is from the ultra orthodox along with the Russians, Americans etc.

It is worrying because the growth of any group with an extreme and/or literalist form of religion is a worrying development - particularly when they are a part of a conflict where negotiation and compromise between both parties is going to need to happen if there is ever to be peace.

As a Jew I find the some of the statements in this thread about who I hate and who hates me to be distasteful in the extreme. As well as wrong.

Head slapping shouty Islamists = bad

Zionist land grabbers = bad

MTB = good

My work here is done.

Can anybody point to a good 'idiots guide' to the situation and background there. would love to try and understand it a bit better

1. We used to own everything.

2. The (2 sets of) natives started getting uppity about this, as one set said God gave it to them, the other said Allah gave it to them. Both reckoned that nobody gave it to some people from Buckinghamshire!

3. As one set of the natives had had a bit of a time of it of late, due to that bloke with the tache, we gave it to them (this may have involved them being terrorists, but nobody mentions that anymore. Sssssssssssh!)

4. The other set of natives took umbridge at this gift from the British Empire, as they reckon it was their gift from Allah

5. They get their mates, who also had gifts of land from Allah, and some heavy weapons (possibly from Allah, maybe not?) to royally kick off

6. They've been scrapping ever since

Jesus Wept.

Can anybody point to a good 'idiots guide'

An lo; Binners is the provider.

(If you'd like some actual information that's not written by an idiot, the internet is a wonderful resource)

Just out of interest Binners; is that genunely how you see things? Or simply more part of the 'igniorant blinkered man in the pub' persona you seem so keen to promote on here?

That's genuinely what i think. If anything, I thought I'd overdone the embellishment. But the English language is a beautiful thing and sometimes I get carried away

Anyway... If you'd care to point out where that is factually inaccurate Michael.....?

An lo; Binners is the provider

That's certainly one word for him.

That's genuinely what i think

to reiterate: Jesus wept.

If you'd care to point out where that is factually inaccurate Michael.....?

Just this teeny bit actually:

1. We used to own everything.

2. The (2 sets of) natives started getting uppity about this, as one set said God gave it to them, the other said Allah gave it to them. Both reckoned that nobody gave it to some people from Buckinghamshire!

3. As one set of the natives had had a bit of a time of it of late, due to that bloke with the tache, we gave it to them (this may have involved them being terrorists, but nobody mentions that anymore. Sssssssssssh!)

4. The other set of natives took umbridge at this gift from the British Empire, as they reckon it was their gift from Allah

5. They get their mates, who also had gifts of land from Allah, and some heavy weapons (possibly from Allah, maybe not?) to royally kick off

6. They've been scrapping ever since

We basically took a chunk of land from the Palestinians, gave them some money and said 'These are your new neighbours, like it or lump it'.

Did the Israelis not then decided they wanted more land and start invading the bit we gave to the Palestinians? Is that not what the Arabs are more upset about?

Thread must on countdown to closure surely

I stand by my assertion that this is both a succinct and accurate depiction. I've clearly missed my true vocation in life. Simon Schama could learn a thing or two here. He may even be enviously reading this

Are there any other periods in history that are a bit hazy, that you'd like me to offer my insight into Michael?

How about the repeal of the corn laws?

Binners and Fred, sitting in a tree......

😉

mike - any danger of a succinct, bullet pointed version from your side? Quite interested to see this binners vs. mikeconnor thing play out

... with accompanying emoticons and mockney spelling...

That's a bit vague Woppit, to be honest. I was very young at the time

Yeah Mike/Fred! You're happy dissing my (staggeringly accurate and beautifully structured) version. Lets have your version then.....