[Closed] is the world MAD?? well scotland at least

There was a certain inevitability....

The Daily Mail demands it

🙄

Two wrongs don't make a right?

looks as though he was preventing a crime to me and therefore it was justified?

Good. Way OTT IMO, the kid was a bit of a dick, but he didn't threaten anyone or act aggressively. Big man deserves what he gets AFAIC.

The big man used force where there was no legal justification. Its a clear assault.

I am surprised his prosecution is considered in the public interest tho

I don't think BTP has much choice. There was an alleged offence; there was evidence that an offence may have taken place. There was sufficient media/public interest that they couldn't ignore it.

Arrested and charged is not the same as found guilty.

The procurator fiscal will need to decide if it is in the public interest to prosecute. Assuming they do, the court will then decide if an offence was committed. If the police don't do the first bit then they appear to be doing the judge's job for him.

I'm pleased to see that the "fare dodger" has also been reported, and thus can be dealt with by the judicial process rather than STW law!

fair dodging is hardly a crime when compared with assault.

fair dodging is hardly a crime when compared with assault.

True. I could understand someone fare dodging to stop an assault, but to commit assault to stop fare dodging?

The 'fare dodger' hasn't been charged with fare dodging, he has been reported for trespass and "threatening or ABUSIVE behavior"

I can however understand Bigman's actions... he probably just wanted to get home and the little scrote was stopping the train form going anywhere. doesn't make it right though.

trespass and abusive and threatening behaviour sounds more serious than fare dodging so it'll probably al work out just fine.

I wonder if he's jumped the barriers to get on to the train then?

I've just contacted my MSP:

A public spirited member of the public who intervened to help out a train conductor is now being charged with assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16288101
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We need the law changed to protect people who are acting in the public interest. They will not generally be aware of the minutae of regulation concerning their actions.

Samaritans should not be put to the sword.

As above, the actions of big lad were OTT, however I don't see how it is in the public's interest to prosecute him.
FWIW, I also think that more people need to stand up to little scrotes like the fare dodger - suddenly half a carriage all standing up and giving the lad a hard time would support the conductor and maybe persuade the lad it is not work doing.

epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

Samaritans should not be put to the sword.

If instead of a student, what if it had been an old man, or a 14 year old girl? Would his actions still make him a samaritan?

suddenly half a carriage all standing up and giving the lad a hard time would support the conductor and maybe persuade the lad it is not work doing.

Yes, everyone knows how persuasive a mob can be.

You expect to pay a fine if caught fare dodging. You don't expect to get chucked off a train by some fat guy. They're both in the wrong.

We need the law changed to protect people who are acting in the public interest

Ushering the guy off the train is one thing, throwing him to the platform is another......

Yup. Without getting all dailymailranty about it, there really is a serious lack of civic responsibility in the UK, and this is perhaps not the best result. As I mentioned in the other thread, my Ozzie mate is constantly amazed at what people will put up with here (phones blaring music on public transport, everyone just sitting and ignoring bad behaviour). She always says something, and the scrotes are usually so surprised at being confronted that they comply.

There was a fascinating prog on Radio 4 last year about this very subject - it really is a British phenomenon.

epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

Depends if you have decided some laws are ok to break in your head though i suppose... 🙂

I think Matt is correct - if the whole carriage showed a bit of unity and spoke out against the lad he'd might have had a change of heart.

The big guy shouldn't have done it. Manhandling someone off a train, resulting in injury (even if it's only a scratch)is assault. It's pretty plain to see what he did.

bottom line is that you can't assault people for being a dick, or rude. It's illegal.

Ushering the guy off the train is one thing,

epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

Oh ffs, not this again.

Not sure which thread is going to run with this but...

He's only been charged at this stage - not found guilty. Clearly the polis and CPS thought there was enough evidence to prosecute. A jury of his peers may find him not guilty yet.

I bet he's very grateful to the guy who took the video and posted it up (who, incidentally, came across as a smug little tosser when I heard him interviewed on the radio.)

EDIT: If not the CPS, then the PF. Not sure how it works up there in Scotchlandshire

whatnobeer - Member

epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

Oh ffs, not this again.

Its a serious point tho.

if this is acceptable then what is not?

We know its acceptable to use force to prevent violence - thats well known in law. this was a non violent crime but some folk think force is acceptable. so where do you draw the line?

bottom line is that you can't assault people for being a dick

Just as well, really. I'd be spending all day, every day, punching people 😀

...in self defence binners. 😀

Its a serious point tho.

I'll line 'em up! You knock em down DD 😉

if i could punch people holding up my journey then does that mean every bad driver i see i could go and punch? that's roadrage though and i'm pretty sure STW would class that as assault

just a thought 😀

Dog owners not controlling their dogs?

I am surprised his prosecution is considered in the public interest tho

Surely to not charge the big man with assualt would be to send a message that it's ok for anyone to use whatever physical force they feel like to sort out a situation they don't like, and if what you are doing is 'popular', you are clear to break the law?

He was abusive towards the staff, so I support the actions of 'big man'. If it were an old man or little girl sitting there being abusive, I'd not have an issue with doing the same (if they're abusive and struggle as much as the teenager did). If more people did this the world would be a better place in my opinion, far too may people happily sit idly by watching whilst a minority negatively impact everyone.

If more people did this the world would be a better place in my opinion, far too may people happily sit idly by watching whilst a minority negatively impact everyone

Sshhhh! Don't say that, everyone is going to frown at you and tut beneath their breath.

i have no issue with the carriage acting or someone acting but the force used was excessive and he did throw him to the ground- I will accpet the first as a stumble.

Doubt a jury will convict though tbh.. a warning would suffice and some info about what is and is not reasonable force

RLJ's should have bikes confiscated and crushed, I reckon and if they come up with a crappy excuse that its safer to RLJ chuck in a free flogging.

richc - Member
RLJ's should have bikes confiscated and crushed, I reckon and if they come up with a crappy excuse that its safer to RLJ chuck in a free flogging.

Thanks for sharing 😉

TandemJeremy - Member
epicyclo -where does it stop? should I be allowed to assault people who park illegally?

Come off it TJ (whatever it is), this is Scotland, where violence is quick and sudden.

I believe the big guy felt that an old man was in need of protection. This had all the hallmarks of a nasty incident about to kick off. If you think this is the same as illegal parking, oh dear.

Are you one of those who pull the curtains when you hear screams in the street?

and if what you are doing is 'popular', you are clear to break the law?

Actually, there is some value in considering this in the context of a civilised society. If we broadly accept that the fare dodger was sufficiently out of line to warrant being ejected, then maybe we have to accept that the ejection was hardly going to be gentle.

If we accept that, then we can then decide what level of subsequent injury (if any) to the fare dodger is acceptable. By "we", of course I mean lawmakers and the judiciary.

However, if we're too scared that might descend quickly into vigilantism, fair enough, but it's worth considering the possibility that the application of the current law (no, not sure how it's different in Scotland) can be altered in its application for the common good.

No epicylo - I actually intervened personally on a few occasions.

There was no credible that of violence in my opinion. even if there was restraint was all that was needed.

Epicyclo has a good point, when we watched it here we commented on just how much crap the ticket chap was meant to take from him. Frankly it was embarrassing how little courtesy the lad offered the man doing his job.

If my Dad got that crap off someone i would hope a 'big man' sorted something out. You can't just sit there sometimes when there is a numpty being a numpty.

Ignore the ticket thing and it is a lot clearer. One man sticking up for another cause the rest of the coach was too scared to.

I believe the big guy felt that an old man was in need of protection. This had all the hallmarks of a nasty incident about to kick off. If you think this is the same as illegal parking, oh dear.

I know right, have you seen the video? That student is sitting in that chair so threateningly like. Clearly someone was about to get glocked. That carriage is so lucky to have that fat guy there to throw the kid onto his face, I can only imagine the terror that would have ensued otherwise. Won't someone please think of the children?

I dont think anyone disagrees that the avoider was a tool or deserved something as consequences - removal from train without injury for example.
However because he is being a tool that does not mean you have the right to assualt him.

RM
Fingers crossed you survive the hell hole that is Student life....some says its worse than Iraq you know

I don't think BTP has much choice. There was an alleged offence; there was evidence that an offence may have taken place. There was sufficient media/public interest that they couldn't ignore it.

Arrested and charged is not the same as found guilty.

The procurator fiscal will need to decide if it is in the public interest to prosecute. Assuming they do, the court will then decide if an offence was committed. If the police don't do the first bit then they appear to be doing the judge's job for him.

Bullet points:
- He works in the public sector no?
- His employer may take disciplinary action based on an arrest?
- The boy is also charged. With what? Not having a train ticket? 😆 wow, scary. The bloke who was being held up with everyone else whilst a little shit swore at a man who is probably older than his Dad grabbed and threw him off the train has the potential to gain a criminal record.

Nice. So in future if you do a good deed, make sure you smash any mobile phones filming you.