[Closed] Is May about to call an election?

Corporation tax comes out of the money firms take in from customers. Just like VAT.

each country have different motives
If your small and have very little earning potential then grabbing a little bit from lots of extra people works - name plates and accounting - Lux
Spain/Italy - grab some of the big guys with a cheap workforce and incentives like Ireland did
If you have industry and lots going on you should be collecting what you can from business in return for the roads, educated population, healthcare and other services that allow them to make a profit.

each country have different motives
If your small and have very little earning potential then grabbing a little bit from lots of extra people works - name plates and accounting - Lux
Spain/Italy - grab some of the big guys with a cheap workforce and incentives like Ireland did
If you have industry and lots going on you should be collecting what you can from business in return for the roads, educated population, healthcare and other services that allow them to make a profit.

...and Britain's motive is? Weird how every country with a below average Corporation tax is doing it for noble reasons, except Britain who are doing it because we're some kind of pantomime villain harming our own interests for corrupt reasons.

Corporation tax comes out of the money firms take in from customers. Just like VAT.

That isn't my understanding.

So where *do* firms get the cash to pay corporation tax?

Should be the latter, well balanced economy, don't need to draw in the likes of Apple to send all profits through at a discount, just need to take whats due. Same place as germany really

fortunately we are attractive enough as a country to keep business, of course thatd require us staying in the single market/customs union etc

Is she looking tired?

If the best attack line that the momentumites can come up with is from a Dr Who script, then I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing come Friday morning 😀

best get your kleenex ready, I reckon you must have run out searching all those IRA funeral pics.

It was of course a joke, much like the PM and her slogans not policy routine. think she has met somebody who wasn't vetted yet?

I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing come Friday morning

I suspect that will be the outcome regardless, the only difference will be who is wailing

It was of course a joke,

I spy, with my little eye...

[img] [/img]

I think we are going to have some outstanding scenes of wailing and gnashing

I presume you missed the bit earlier where most of us rabid lefties said we were expecting May to win? I doubt there are many others who disagree. In fact, pretty much everyone I know is voting labour, and pretty much every one of them I've talked to don't expect labour to win.

She did look tired by the way. Empty in fact. That's her major problem, she has almost no belief in the vacuous rubbish that comes out of her mouth. In fact I'm pretty sure if she went off Crosby's script and unleashed a rant about what she really believes it would probably win her the victory she wants.

If the best attack line that the momentumites can come up with is

its OK ninfan, us lefties have already priced in a tory victory

weve spent plenty of time slating our Strong & Stable 😆 PM its not just her haunted eyes that are amusing us

her reputation is now in tatters and she gets to own brexit, silver linings!

jam bo - Member

I think they are starting to panic and believe they might actually lose this.

How it seems to me is, the rules have changed a bit and they're still not quite believing it. Boris expected to be able to go into that interview and tell a load of lies unchallenged, it didn't even occur to him he could get called out. Those are the rules of the game as he understands them. He's not totally wrong, as proved by the following interview when he did get away with it, but the ground's shifted and it's no wonder they're reeling.

May's creepy warehouse cult meeting is exactly the same thing- her version of the rules say she can do a weird event like that and have it reported faithfully as "May goes to Scotland and everyone loves her". Even though they got ripped apart for it last time, they go ahead and do the exact same stupid thing, because they still think that's how the world is. Labour know if they do something like that they'll get the piss taken, the Tories think it happens to other people.

jam bo - Member

when they say 'ill', do they mean locked in a room away from any form of communication?

She was having a friendly one-to-one with Seamus Milne and accidentally kicked herself unconscious then locked herself in a sack.

ransos - Member

To take Corbyn's performance on Woman's Hour, he reacted by apologising and supplying the correct figures. In contrast to the Maybot, it gives me the sense that he's actually a human being.

I've said this before but when Corbyn or Abbott have a bad interview, it's because they say something wrong. When Boris or May have a bad interview, it's because they say exactly what they want to say. Corbyn can issue an apology or a clarification, May will go on just the same.

Weirdly we react to the former like it's worse- like it's better to say something awful than something daft, or better to be dishonest than to be mistaken.

igm - Member

I hadn't realised May tried to cut the police further but got vetoed by Osbourne of all people.

I hate to have to admit it but Osbourne was often a restraining hand on May. He personally overruled several attacks on student immigration frinstance because he saw the price tag and basically didn't care about anything else. Never thought I'd find a use for him- it makes me wonder what he might have been like in an office more suited to him (kind of like Gove in justice)

I'm not sure whether to laugh or vomit...
[url= https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/872017947585380352 ]Theresa's naughty moment[/url]

Sadly she does come accross as a victim of her dementia tax reminiscing in a care home

Boris expected to be able to go into that interview and tell a load of lies unchallenged, it didn't even occur to him he could get called out

That's because he got away with telling whoppers for so long.

I still like that line about whether he'd be willing to lie down in front of the Heathrow bulldozers, given that he'd been happy enough to lie down the side of a bus.

I hate to have to admit it but Osbourne was often a restraining hand on May.

Osborne, regardless of whether you like his politics, and maybe because of his 'cold' persona was a very shrewd political operator - I think he managed to play both the Tory right and the Lib Dems during the coalition, and apparently unlike Cameron he saw the Brexit referendum backfiring and was against it.

makes me wonder what he might have been like in an office more suited to him (kind of like Gove in justice)

Gove's seriously under-rated. People who have worked with him reckon he's sharp as a button with terrific capacity to take on a brief.

In the same way insiders didn't rate May, and I think most people would say they got that right.

Is she looking tired?

Gove's seriously under-rated. People who have worked with him reckon he's sharp as a button with terrific capacity to take on a brief.

Which may be true, but he'll never be forgiven in certain parts of the Tory party for knifing Boris, even if Boris had it coming in spades.

In the same way insiders didn't rate May, and I think most people would say they got that right.

There was a thing I read in the paper by Clegg, I think, which said she has great attention to detail on whatever she's focussed on, but has very poor interpersonal skills and no ability to see the wider picture.

Apparently Cameron disliked her enough that when she was home Sec he used to palm off all meetings with her onto the deputy PM.

Gove's seriously under-rated. People who have worked with him reckon he's sharp as a button with terrific capacity to take on a brief.

yeah his king james bible wtf moment speaks to a failure to get some things

regards May
while Johnson & Gove were busy knifing each other that left just May & Leadsome- who from what Ive heard of someone whos worked with her is monumentally dim
the warning signs were there, plenty of people, not just us lefties were saying that May's record at the home office was a red flag

who from what Ive heard of someone whos worked with her is monumentally dim

I think her interveiws during the leadership campaign were evidence for that, tbh.

So, given the views above, and making the assumption The Conservatives win, if May was to step down, who would be the next PM?

Boris will have another crack at it, I think.

Or some total headbanger like Raab?

next PM?

Im torn

[img] [/img]

or

[img] [/img]

Time for IDS to rise again!

outofbreath - Member

Gove's seriously under-rated. People who have worked with him reckon he's sharp as a button with terrific capacity to take on a brief.

Yup, it's just a shame he has such unshakable faith in his own half-understandings. Bibles, schwas, leadership elections and such.

I almost agree

Phew.

but mays u-turn and cap is stupid

Yup, but not for really for the reasons you're about to state.

those with assets above her cap (ie the richest) will have their assets above it protected, meaning they could some could save millions

Only if they need millions of pounds worth of care in the home which is unlikely and people with many millions don't pay wealth taxes, they're too easy to avoid. ..and that assumes they want state provided care in the home which I'd say is highly unlikely. Those people are already paying for this care themselves.

those with less than the cap see their inheritance taken away, so the poorest could loose everything theyve worked for their entire lives

They'd be losing anyway without the cap and the tax payer shouldn't be funding legacies.

Would a proper inheritance tax reform not be fairer on all?

Firstly, there's no objective measure of fairness. ...and if there was what if the fair amount to pay for Social care was zero, the 'fair' rate wouldn't pay for anything?

Put it another way, the uk tax take has always been about 35pc of GDP. Supposing we all agreed the 'fair' rate was 10pc of GDP? What do we do, just have far less services?

Most importantly, though, if the govt say 'we're taking your kids inheretance as general taxation', I reckon people will get narked and plan for it. If people pay for their own care I think people are more likely to suck it up and just pay. ie there will be less avoidance.

Also people will be more likely to choose residential care if social care has a cost and I think that's a good thing, freeing up much needed houses and allowing carers to spend more time looking after people and less time in the car.

Yup, it's just a shame he has such unshakable faith in his own half-understandings. Bibles

The bibles thing was utterly mis-represented by the press. IIRC they came to him and offered to do it and pay. He shrugged and said fine. I'd have done the same, what's the harm?

Only if they need millions of pounds worth of care in the home which is unlikely and people with many millions don't pay wealth taxes, they're too easy to avoid.

Firstly, there's no objective measure of fairness.

Firstly, there's no objective measure of fairness.

Well enabling people to be closer to evasion than efficient might get closer to fairness...
Fairness would be to spread the burden among more people.

In your opinion fairness is spreading the burden widely. In Corbyn's opinion the burden needs to be bourne by 5pc of people.

As I say, there's no objective measure of fairness everyone has their own subjective view.

This is a question of political philosophy.

Do you think allowing people to evade taxes is fair?
Parts of the care tax doesn't really add up, it needs a proper think, the idea is a start but it's nowhere near finished or ready to implement.

some great Trolling of May by the Blackpool Gazette

[img] [/img]

[quote=lunge ]So, given the views above, and making the assumption The Conservatives win, if May was to step down, who would be the next PM?

Ms Rudd?

Do you think allowing people to evade taxes is fair?

Do you think the people in the Boston Tea party thought evading tax was fair? I bet they did. Were they wrong? Subjective, innit.

Personally I look at the moral aspect of tax as the same as the legal. Evasion = immoral. Avoidance = fine. Society seems to agree. We all do the latter, very few people do the former.

ah obscure reference.

Point being fix the rules, take a fresh look at inheritance and other taxes to see if the right balance is there. Otherwise expect a new generation of middle class asset shifting to maximise their tax planning and screwing of others.

Personally I look at the moral aspect of tax as the same as the legal. Evasion = immoral. Avoidance = fine. Society seems to agree.

The bibles thing was utterly mis-represented by the press. IIRC they came to him and offered to do it and pay.

You misremembered. When it was pointed out to him that a £400,000 vanity project was a duff way of spending public cash... Donors stepped in the rescue the project

So if I make sufficient bribes, sorry, donations to a political party and get a loophole put in to reduce my tax bill that is moral?

Yes. I'd hope illegal too.

You misremembered. When it was pointed out to him that a £400,000 vanity project was a duff way of spending public cash... Donors stepped in the rescue the project

Sounds plausible, linky, just to make sure?

[quote=aracer ]

Ms Rudd?

nah. rudderless is far too easy a headline.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/may/25/michael-gove-bibles-schools-plan
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/may/15/michael-gove-king-james-bible

Michael Gove's King James Bible plan rescued by millionaire Tory donors
Education secretary will send a copy of the Bible to every state school after donors club together to save £370,000 initiative

yay more religion in schools, hope it was made clear it was fiction to be critically studied.

yep Gove originally wanted the taxpayer to pay for his bibilical ego****

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/may/25/michael-gove-bibles-schools-plan

https://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/05/michael-gove-bible/

Point of order: None of those links say the tax payer was going to pay.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-I-know-about-teaching/dp/1492912417

Millionaire Conservative party donors have clubbed together to rescue a plan by the education secretary, Michael Gove, to send a copy of the King James Bible to every state school in the country.

Gove hoped to mark the 400th anniversary of the Bible's completion by donating a leather-bound copy, written in 17th-century English, to all primary and secondary schools by Easter.

However, his plans were said to have run into trouble in January when government sources reported that David Cameron had told Gove to avoid using taxpayers' money for the £370,000 initiative.

The Department for Education denied aspects of the story, but said they did not know if the copies had yet been printed, or where the copies might currently be stored. They added the Bible was always intended to be distributed to schools at Easter, so there had been no slippage in the timetable due to the lack of a sponsor.

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Education department officials said the prime minister supported the plan and said they did not recognise accounts of a conversation in which Gove was told no taxpayers' money could be used. But Whitehall sources said Gove was told at the highest levels that it would be wrong to spend nearly £400,000 on the project at a time when the government was in negotiations with teaching unions over cuts to their pension entitlement.

Education department officials insisted the bibles would be distributed before Easter even if no sponsor had been found. A senior education department source said enough public cash was available to press ahead and No 10 had merely indicated that "sponsorship was desirable". A Department for Education official said in a statement: "The prime minister was clear in his speech in December about the importance of the King James Bible, and marking this important anniversary. The prime minister supports the plan to send a copy to every school. We continue to seek philanthropic sponsorship."

didnt he also want the taxpayer to buy the queen a new royal yacht ?

all in the midst of 'austerity madness'

[b]Looks like[/b] the Ed Dep was picking up the bill if it didn't find sponsors and he wanted to let them pick up the tab.

Nah, it doesn't.

But it's academic, I asked for a linky and you did your best.

idnt he also want the taxpayer to buy the queen a new royal yacht ?

He suggested it:

"My suggestion would be a gift from the nation to her majesty; thinking about David Willetts's excellent suggestion of a royal yacht, and something tangible to commemorate this momentous occasion.".

The Press Association reported Gove saying: “The taxpayer is there to underwrite the costs but we are in conversation with a number of individuals and organisations that may share some of the burden.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/01/18/michael-goves-king-james-bibles-cost-taxpayers-thousands-_n_1212702.html

is a suggestion different from wanting it? is semantics all youve got

we all know Gove is a clown 😉

But it's academic, I asked for a linky and you did your best.

Looks like the Ed Dep was picking up the bill if it didn't find sponsors and he wanted to let them pick up the tab.

Nah, it doesn't.

Yeah, it does.

http://www.****/news/article-2088339/Michael-Goves-377k-plan-send-King-James-Bible-school.html

[sorry.....]

Mr Gove said talks were under way with a number of individuals and organisations that might 'share some of the burden' - but the taxpayer would underwrite the cost.
'The taxpayer is there to underwrite the costs but we are in conversation with a number of individuals and organisations that may share some of the burden,' he said.

None of it matters, if May gets her 50 seat majority She'll be safe for now, will there be a reshuffle after- Id have thought so, where might gove pop up?
like a bad turd.....

Only if its less than 50 (which I doubt) will she be under immediate threat, its just that she will have lost some measure of respect from within her party, though have at good 30+ new & loyal MPs

x2 post

is a suggestion different from wanting it?

No. Why do you ask?

'The taxpayer is there to underwrite the costs but we are in conversation with a number of individuals and organisations that may share some of the burden,' he said.

Thanks, that's conclusive.

The big point being that the PM then had to remind him that he really should make sure he had funding...
Quacks like a duck? get the oranges.

Not a definitive statement this, more a suggestion, but some people are just knobs, aren't they?

Opinium has published its final poll of the election campaign. It suggests the Conservatives have a seven-point lead.

Here are their figures.

Conservatives: 43%

Labour: 36%

Lib Dems: 8%

Ukip: 5%

Greens: 2%

Here is an extract from the Opinium news release.

All polls point to a Conservative majority, despite recent gains by the Labour party, and the final poll from Opinium indicates that the Conservatives will capture 43% of the vote on Thursday, compared to 36% for Labour. This is in stark contrast to the 19 point lead held by the Conservatives at the beginning of the party’s campaign. However, the Labour poll ‘surge’ appears to have crested with the party slipping back by a point as the Conservatives remain steady.

The campaign has damaged the reputation of the prime minister, despite a likely Conservative win, with Theresa May’s approval ratings falling from +21% at the start of the campaign to just +5% on average across all voters. While Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has seen his popularity increase to -7%, it doesn’t seem to been enough to challenge the Conservatives.

On the basis of these figures, Electoral Calculus says the Conservatives would get a majority of 48.

still reckon may will get 50+ seats

these guys reckon 100 + seats !

which is faesible, lets hope da yoof turn out, tho bad weather forecast will doesnt bode well for that

http://britainelects.com/nowcast/

Ok now I am either going with Labour win or 150 seat Tory landslide. Something shocking anyway.

This is comedy gold - [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/election-tory-strong-stable-van-overturns-conservatives-theresa-may-advert-a7776136.html ]Strong and stable campaign bus blown over by wind[/url]

75-100 remains my prediction. Personally I think the Tory lead has increased over the election campaign, I think the early polls where manipulated up and the latter ones down. All makes for headlines and an ability to "create the news" by the newsmedia.

May went into the election with a 17 seat majority and much talk of disruption to Brexit. IMO on Jue 9th sh will have a much much larger majority and a much stronger hand at home and abroad. Job Done.

I'm offline tomorrow , I'm sure the world will keep on turning 8)

If it's a landslide Tory victory I don't think I could face the gloating brexit / Tory kippers on social media telling everyone to get over it all over again.
Please let it be a slim Tory majority or labour landslide...

I think the early polls where manipulated up and the latter ones down.

Aye. Right.

Personally I think the Tory lead has increased over the election campaign, I think the early polls where manipulated up and the latter ones down.

Ooh go on then - why do you think this?

cloudnine - Member
If it's a landslide Tory victory I don't think I could face the gloating brexit / Tory kippers on social media telling everyone to get over it all over again.
Please let it be a slim Tory majority or labour landslide...

sadly itll be a gloatfest
enjoy the tories bricking themselves while you can!

jambys tinfoil hattery is quite amusing though

75-100 remains my prediction.

You were predicting 100-150 seats, so why the change of heart?

Personally I think the Tory lead has increased over the election campaign, I think the early polls where manipulated up and the latter ones down

She will won but not by what she expected to and I very much dount the Tory grandees have any faith left in her

She will be very very lucky to ever face the electorate again as PM and will need to show some skill that has been hitherto lacking in her performances in either the election or her previous department or her premiership- the lady is for turning

I find it hard to believe even the most devout tory is energised by anything she has done so far its been pretty shit granted not diane abbott levels of shit but shit nonetheless

sadly itll be a gloatfest

Not sure what they'll be gloating over. Presiding over the the most complex and important negotiations in decades after their authority and reputation has been completely destroyed by the complete cluster**** of a campaign and up against a resurgent opposition (assuming the blairites don't start playing silly beggars, as they surely will). Whatever happens Corbyn and his colleagues can be duly proud that they have shown that an alternative is not only popular, but possible. What happens next is in the hands of the PLP.

Today:

jambalaya - Member

75-100 remains my prediction

2 weeks ago:

jambalaya - Member

100 to 150 seat Tory win

That's some good remaining.

Its because he thinks the tory lead has increased obviously
DUH he said so

That's some good remaining.

And nothing to do with the opinion polls he says are fabricated.

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/06/vote-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader-policies ]Monbiot hits the nail on the head[/url]. Whatever the result, things are beginning to change. They can either change fast, on Thursday, or take a few more years. First time I've ever really believed it though.

Mays latest u-turn is that contrary to the manifesto she (re)launched last week she wants to remove elements of the Human Rights Act

anything to shift the narrative away from her cuts to police

Mays latest u-turn

I guess the empty rhetoric about not letting terrorists win was all bollox. Hardly a surprise, given her propensity to cave in at the merest hint of trouble, but shocking all the same.

They under fund the police and then blame the internet and the people of their own country for spreading extremism in an effort to remove people's civil liberties: You really can't make this stuff up.

FFS I've got that Greg Knight jingle stuck in my head now... aaaaaaaargh!

encouraging newsnight vox pops in the west midlands

more squeaky bum time for the tories 🙂 even if they will win tomorrow