[Closed] iPad has '80% of North American tablet market'

Amazon are launching their new tablet soon (today I think). It'll be interesting to see if that can offer some competition.

Surely 80% of the tablet market aren't all fanboys are they?

Interested to see what Amazon offers today. Will it have Flash on it?

Isn't the Amazon pad only 7" for now though?

I hope the don't supersede the Kindle with it

I got one of these. It's ace....

DD that might be the point really

LOL @ the flash comment, how long do you intend to carry that on for?

I was so anti until I finally opened the one I was given... put me in the 'it just works!' camp.

z1ppy, I'm done with it.

For now. 🙂

simply ppl want something that works?

Didn't one of the competitors note that to buiold something to the same spec as an iPad the wholesale price of the chips was higher than the iPads retail price? Apple only manage it by economies of scale?

I'd like one personaly, if it did flash.

I had a TouchPad for about a day last week - I now work for HP and internal colleagues got first dibs on the last batch that were made.

For the price (£109 for 32GB) it is fantastic. I have an iPad though so sold it (same price) to a colleague in HP. I wouldn't have paid full price for one though. The software still needs a little work - sometimes it was laggy on swiping and boot was very slow.

It did run flash though, dd. But it was, invariably, rubbish on a touch screen. I went to a flash games site and it couldn't work out what I was doing as it was expecting mouse clicks not touch. Another reason I hate flash.

People here are waiting until Android will run on it so they can get the apps.

That figure is hardly surprising, there wasn't really a tablet market before the iPad launched. That is what Apple do, develop something new (ish) and corner the market until the rest catch up.

I'd disagree there has been a tablet market for years (as previously posted many times), not a big one admittedly, due to the fact that none were actually any good.

I supported a HP tablet with XP over 5 years ago, as one guy was important enought to insist on having one, and it was a pile of ****, was so glad when they transfered him to Switzerland...

there wasn't really a tablet market before the iPad launched

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😉

That figure is hardly surprising, there wasn't really a tablet market before the iPad launched. That is what Apple do, develop something new (ish) and corner the market until the rest catch up.

+1

I'd disagree there has been a tablet market for years (as previously posted many times), not a big one admittedly, due to the fact that none were actually any good.

I think this comment highlights the difference between there being products available, with no one buying them because they aren't any good, i.e. they don't do what people want them to, and there being demand for a product because it does do what people want it to do.

There categorically wasn't a market for tablets before the iPad BUT there were products available.

What Apple have done is respond to a latent need with a product that meets those needs and in doing so they have created the market.

Market = Demand; Market does not = Product

Will be interesting to see what the Kindle Fire is all about, the rumour mill reckons that the version released today is late to market and so a newer version will appear early next year. Supposedly heavily based upon the RIM Playbook as it's out of the same hardware shop.

I don't think apple responded to a market need. There was no more of a need for a keyboardless laptop in 2010 than there was in 2000. Windows XP tablet edition was released in 2002, you used to be able to get laptops where the screen flipped round (so you could use them as a tablet), but I guess no-one marketed them as well as apple did (kinda similar to the ipod really. It didn't work any better than a creative player (in fact in some measurable terms it was worse) but they made it 'cool' and cornered the market).

Given the drop the ipad had on the market (ie opening it up) its not surprising they have 80% of the market. The trouble with the android platform (imo) both for phones and tablets is the number of devices blurs the market. I know what an Ipad is, and how well it works, but I don't know which of the android devices is better/worse/has faults etc

Just managed to get my hands on one of the last Touchpads (my first tablet) and I can see why the form factor is so popular. It's just a lovely thing to use compared to a laptop. It's very much a supplementary device though, just for browsing, email & killing time, particularly when away from the desk. The perfect sofa internet device. It could never replace my "proper" computers though. I'm quite liking WebOS so far, particularly now I've followed the online geek advice & configured it to run a lot faster than stock, but definitely looking forward to the day Android is available on it.

Windows XP tablet edition was released in 2002

Yeah but it was crap. What Apple did right was realise that you couldn't take a mouse-based OS interface and just stick it on a touch screen. You have to start with a good, multi-touch screen then design a new interface that is based around intuitive touch and gestures.

you used to be able to get laptops where the screen flipped round (so you could use them as a tablet)

Yep, but they were physically clunky to use like that, which pretty much defeated the point of it being a tablet.

you used to be able to get laptops where the screen flipped round

Pretty sure my boss has a newish one - can't see from here but I think it's a Lenovo IBM thing, he seems to use it [like I would a paper notepad] with a stylus for taking meeting notes etc.

but I guess no-one marketed them as well as apple did … they made it 'cool' and cornered the market).

This argument always gets my goat!

Apple's products are well designed and well made, which is why they sell.

Trying to argue that they only sell because of the marketing is like saying you only go to the toilet because you've smelled someone else's fart.

Agreed. Apple marketing is pretty slick, but it works because the products are also slick.

I find it a bit patronising when people assume that owning an Apple product means I'm a gullible idiot that's fallen 100% for all the hype like a drooling fanboi.

[IMG] [/IMG]
They come in quite handy at my work.. Appreciate it's quite a specific use and one that doesn't require any flash etc.. but with my handwriting they're a must!
They also come with a nice rubber case with handle so you can drop them or use them to hit som.. to defend yourself if you absolutely have to.

Apple's products are well designed and well made, which is why they sell

they are, but they sell on the brand. The pre-orders & queues for their devices speak for themselves. People buy them because they are the latest shiney device from apple. When the reviews come along later, they're normally good, but not the head and shoulders above the competition that the sales figures would suggest. People seem to trust the brand and assume the product is going to be solid (which is normally the case, but the products (as anyones) are far from flawless).

People seem to trust the brand and assume the product is going to be solid

Yep. And that's because...

Apple's products are well designed and well made

🙂

e.g. I've not got a tablet/pad yet, but I may well pre-order an iPad 3 when they are available. Now that's not due to marketing hype (there isn't any yet since there isn't a product). But I know Apple have a (recent) history of making good stuff. The iPhone 4 and iPad 2 are good products that I like, and I also like the way iOS is developing, so I can be fairly certain that an iPad 3 will suit me.

Thats how trending goes - Apple has enough of a fan base for people to flock to the iPad. Then other people responded by buying them because everyone said they 'needed' them (think of it as a 2x10 or 29er mtb equivalent). And you get some momentum going, then people just keep getting added to the mix and you tip over from being a niche product to something that might actually become useful.

The Amazon Tablet is going to be announced today, hold fire as this could be a game changer. Apple and Amazon are the only people that can offer an ecosystem behind the tablet making them proper consumer devices. They also make money each time you use it (buy content, apps, etc) so can afford to invest more in the product. All the other android tablets are just sell and forget by the manufacturers so they can never afford to offer ongoing support, functionality and upgradeability (is that a word)

Its the simplicity of the ecosystem that has made the iPad and Kindle so popular and especially with non geeks

Graham +1, I 'was' a fervent anti-mac-ist.
When I had to setup a 'free' upgrade iphone for my g/f, I groaned inwardly, then saw it for the fantastic bit of kit it was.
You'll not get me on one of there computers (they offer nothing over a pc to me), but the iphone & ipad for me 'just work'.
Though like computers (I have friends who have never touched a pc/mac in the life and have no intention of ever doing so, I have no issue with this), I understand there not for everyone but just hating them because you hate the brand is stupid (says the reformed man).

they are, but they sell on the brand.

So how did that brand go from being close to dead in about 1990 to what it is today?

I think it was all to down to Steve Jobs noticing those prototype iMacs on Jonny Ives's desk...

We have an iPad [my daughter's] and my 'fire sale' HP Touchpad in our house

For what they do, they seem much of a muchness to me but I'd be the first to put my hand up and say that I really don't have a need for 90% of what they can do and only really use them for email and browsing
I'm not a technophobe, I work most days with high-tech stuff, I just can't find a use for them for me.
I really don't think the iPad is worth anywhere near the 4x + it cost over the HP, the £100 tag of the HP is about it as far as I'm concerned and wouldn't voluntarily pay any more than that
I have however just spent £4k on a 30 yr old motorbike 🙂 so I can't really criticise what others see as value.

I really don't think the iPad is worth anywhere near the 4x + it cost over the HP, the £100 tag of the HP is about it as far as I'm concerned

Erm... I think you're forgetting that the original Touchpad rrp was £400 for the 16GB version or £480 for 32GB one.

So saying the iPad isn't worth 4x as much is a bit of a red herring, no?

and he seemingly missed my mention that the HP touchpad are still selling for around £200+ (I didn't look too closely) on ebay..

the £100 tag of the HP is about it as far as I'm concerned and wouldn't voluntarily pay any more than that

I doubt that HP even covered component costs at that price.

So saying the iPad isn't worth 4x as much is a bit of a red herring, no?

No - not really

I had to buy the iPad too, so I'm [as I said] comparing the two tablets in our house

Okay, put another way, you're right: an iPad [u]isn't[/u] worth 4x as much as an Touchpad, because it would have to be £1600 worth of kit to be worth 4x as much.

Likewise if my mad uncle sells me a brand new Ford Focus for a pound, you'd think me a bit odd if I said I didn't think your new Mondeo was worth 15,000 x as much as the Focus.

Likewise if my mad uncle sells me a brand new Ford Focus for a pound, you'd think me a bit odd if I said I didn't think your new Mondeo was worth 15,000 x as much as the Focus.

No but if you owned the 2 - you just might

I don't know how many more times I'd have to put 'to me' or 'for me' etc. in the post for you to realise I was referring 'to me' rather than a general assessment at market value

I doubt that HP even covered component costs at that price.

Yep. £89 is selling it at a pretty substantial loss.

In fact [url= http://www.itproportal.com/2011/07/04/hp-touchpad-has-higher-bom-ipad-2/ ]the Bill Of Materials for the 32GB Touchpad is around $328 (~£210), more than the iPad 2[/url]!

I find it a bit patronising when people assume that owning an Apple product means I'm a gullible idiot that's fallen 100% for all the hype like a drooling fanboi.

I'm the same. I love the company because of what it does and makes, not because of the (rather annoying) hype.

Apple didn't look at the competition to learn what people wanted. Nor did they wait for people to tell them what they wanted. Instead they went ahead and brought to the market what the people needed.

While the rest of the sector focussed on making computers, Apple focussed, for instance, on giving us the internet. They didn't look at the best way to make a computer into a tablet. They thought instead about what a tablet might need to be and what it might need to do, and made the thing that suited that brief.

And we all laughed. A big iPhone that doesn't work as a phone? An expensive tea tray? Pah. Then we used them and many of us went "actually, this is great".

Same with phones. Nokia is on its arse (or a burning oil rig, as they call it (?) ) because they carried on making phones that tried to get clever. Apple didn't start with a phone, they started with a clean sheet and looked at what people need.

I'm no fanboi. The nature of my job means though I prefer working on Apple I have to run a PC also.

I just like products that work, and are well designed. Not just that are pretty, but that are solid and functionally sorted. When I pick my iMac up it's a smooth, solid piece of aluminium with one wire sticking out the back. When I pick up my PC it's a squeaky, creaky, wobbly box of dust attracting, ugly beige plastic, with flexible side panels and messy cables. The peripherals don't like talking to one another, software is made by different company to the hardware, nothing integrates well.

These things are on show in my home. I use them everyday for business and leisure. I want to interact with the nicer product, at a hardware and software level. So I prefer Apple.

Don't use an iPhone as I don't need that much tech with me all the time (2nd hand £12 Nokia 'dumb'phone FTW) but I have an iPad and it's wonderful. Initially made no sense to me, but when I had a go on one I was converted. I get to browse the internet without having to use a computer. Perfect.

Everything is worked out so that it just functions as you think it should, rather than how years of using Windows has conditioned you to think it should. That's the difference. From the moment you go to the shop, to the moment you open the box at home to the moment you find yourself using it all day every day, online and offline, the Apple thing works well.

Unfortunately to admit you think this gets you instantly dismissed as a pathetic sucker for marketing. No facts come into it, you're just a fanboi.

I was forced to buy iphone 4 and no fanboy myself.

Now I love it. I hate itunes though.

So far my iphone4 has been great with Voip with business, facetime with family and friends, social networking, mp3, tomtom, my snappit cam, torch and workout diary.

Other mobiles can do this but I ios has been great. I was going to go the android route but I have been forced on to apple and I love it.

The backup, customer service and operating system are excellent.

Unfortunately to admit you think this gets you instantly dismissed as a pathetic sucker for marketing. No facts come into it, you're just a fanboi

+1

I can live with people not liking one product or another, but like G, assuming I'm an asshat for using it is a bit annoying. Assuming I'm an asshat is fine with me, I mostly am tbh, but not because I buy an iPhone - even if doesn't have Flash on it.

The Amazon tablet launch event starts in a few mins I believe.
It will be interesting to see what they've decided gives theirs appeal.

Yep, Amazon Fire coverage Live here: http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons-kindle-fire-event/ if you're interested.

It's just an basic android tablet.

The appeal will be the well known name, the price and the Amazon book+mp3 content I imagine.

Oh, and the massive amount of advertising that means non geeks will have actually heard of it, unlike every other non ipad tablet out there).

Yep. I expect a fairly low price and heavy Amazon integration (Kindle, Amazon MP3s, movies) + maybe some partnerships for other media (NetFlix?)

It's just an basic android tablet.

The appeal will be the well known name, the price and the Amazon book+mp3 content I imagine.

But that's what a lot of people want.
i.e. A 10" Android marketplace-ready tablet with a nice multitouch screen and good battery life for around £200.

But that's what a lot of people want.
i.e. A 10" Android marketplace-ready tablet with a nice multitouch screen and good battery life for around £200.

That's me!

😀 😕

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But that's what a lot of people want.
i.e. A 10" Android marketplace-ready tablet with a nice multitouch screen and good battery life for around £200.

I read earlier it was likely to be a 7" unit initially

Mind you, that's the difference between Apple and others. Apple would hold the conference in some futuristic vision of glass and steel with geeky people wearing rimless glasses and polonecks presenting.

Amazon, it appears, do it in a flimsy tent 🙂

[img] [/img]

yep - I read that too. I'm following the event here:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393686,00.asp#fbid=bc_aZ8LtOTd

That pic posted by deadly darcy is proper LOL worthy.

It's sounding more and more like "kindle 2" to me

I know - that bloke's fingers are proper FAT! 😀

Oh FFS, they're talking about their ecosystem now.

Unfortunately to admit you think this gets you instantly dismissed as a pathetic sucker for marketing. No facts come into it, you're just a fanboi.

+1. Very true.

I'd never used an Apple product until I borrowed an iPhone a couple of times, and TBH it blew me away. Here was something soooooo simple to use with one finger that it made every other piece of electronics I'd ever used seem dumb and clunky. So I bought one. Yes, it's expensive, yes, it's a luxury. But it just works. I don't need to be a geek to use it. I doesn't even need an instruction book to learn how to use it!

But I still have to keep hooking it up to a PC to synch it. And every time I do that I'm at the mercy of Microsofts failings and glitches. I don't know how to fix these, I don't WANT TO KNOW how to fix them. Why should I?? If I bough a car and the engine kept cutting out, or it got slower and slower the more I used it, I'd take it back for a refund.
I just want something that works as it should.
That's why I've spent 7 months saving for an iMac, and very soon I'll be buying one. I don't care about the marketing or the image, (but I do appreciate nicely designed things) or what anyone else thinks. I can't see the point of wasting money on PCs time after time after time any more.

🙂

But I still have to keep hooking it up to a PC to synch it.

Not for long. iOS 5 out soon and has iCloud and WiFi Syncing.

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#pcfree

I've stopped following the amazon thing now.
It's looking like it's still a book reader.

Hate to break this to you PP, but iTunes sync is just as terrible on Mac OSX and it is on windows 😆

But as Graham says, iOS 5 does away with a lot of sync related issues (although you still need to use it to transfer photos etc, which is a massive pita).

"Kindle Touch"

Sounds like a disturbing German website :), what is it with these companies?
Apple names theirs after a feminine hygiene product

Apple were the first to get the right combination of software/hardware/price(ish) to market, much as they did with the iPhone. The groundswell of customer loyalty plays a massive part as well (witness people's 'need' to upgrade to the next new iPhone) but the product still has to be right..

I've got a 'cheap' HP Touchpad - the way those things flew off the shelves proves how big the potential market is if the price is right. The manufacturers just have to work out how to build a decent tablet down to the price (without being loss-making like the HP).

I only bought it to have a tinker and maybe do some Android development on it when the port is available.. I was quite sceptical about how useful it would be but now I've got it I am finding that 90% of the time I'll use it over my laptop at home - it's great for coffee table browsing, chatting, email and iPlayer etc.

PP - you're right about the fanboi accusations but you then rather spoil it by basically doing the same

And every time I do that I'm at the mercy of Microsofts failings and glitches

W7 is plenty reliable and works consistently well. Issues with iTunes (I had them too...) are just that.

Free worldwide 3g

That's a good benefit

[img] [/img]

So what's the Fire going to be?

and what will the currency conversion be? I'm assuming 1:1

GOOD prices!

7" then.. Hmmm... that might do the job - guess it'll be down to price...

[img] [/img]

Be interested to see how clear the text is. One thing that has put me off Kindle in the past is that the text seemed quite blocky (especially compared to the ultra-smooth Retina displays).

Yeah, it's noticeable but TBH having borrowed a kindle for a day, you forget about it in a couple of minutes - same as if you switch from Retina to 3G/S

Not for long. iOS 5 out soon and has iCloud and WiFi Syncing.

Yes. But I need to synch to my latop to get OS5 in the first place don't I!??! 😉

Why, oh why, has my phone been synching to my latop for nearly a year faultlessly, then all of a sudden it just stops and locks up every time? Why?
PC. That's why.
Bye Bye PC. Good riddance.

Absolutely must be the PC, must it PP?

W7 is plenty reliable and works consistently well

Heard all that guff before.

Win95
WinXP
WinVista

Same old crap.

Bye bye Windoze.

The money is in my account now. I'm just waiting for a new card to come through so I can spend it. Hopefully this weekend. I've waited long enough. 🙂

Does it have...

...only joking

i think a kindle display is way nicer to read on than a tablet, its lower resolution, but the e-ink is way nicer to my eyes. I run on the smallest font size and the only thing i find lacking is browsing lonely planet guidebooks as they're pdf rather than kindle-format

That's just silly PP - and as I said is just as stupid as the fanboi accusations. 95, XP (to a much lesser extent), Vista were poor. Turns out W7 isn't.

DD - I believe it will! 🙂

i think flash renderings going to be in the cloud, rather than on-device. Should make browsing nice and nippy (opera is much quicker on my blackberry than the default browser)

Absolutely must be the PC, must it PP?

Don't know. I'm no computer tech. Don't care. You can buy the laptop off me if you like, if it's so good, seriously. £1000 worth of 2.5 year old Dell, top of the range at the time. Now it crashes and freezes and I want shot of it. £150 and it's yours.

Is it W7? ( I should add that since my 2 W7 computers are faultless I don't need another one 🙂 )

Browser detects most likely pages you'll need in future, requests them in advance.

That'd make interesting reading 🙂

That's just silly PP

No it's not.

Anybody want my laptop?

Is it W7

Nope. Vista. Utter shit like XP and ME and 95 before it.