[Closed] Insomnia

I'd be OK waking up at 2 as I know I'll get back to sleep. Waking up between 4 and 5 (as I did today) is the killer as I'll probably stay awake and be tired later. Its often because of too much going on, either work or projects. I'll sometimes have an idea or come up with a plan then I think there is a subconscious need to stay awake. Possibly because I want to get on with it, possibly because I don't want to forget it. As for the coffee, maybe try and cut down on caffeine in general. Use it when you need it rather than an everyday habit. Probably easier said than done but I've never quite understood the obsession with coffee and tea

I'm very similar. Always waking about 3.30 to 5.30 (alarm is for 6am) with varying degrees of success getting back to sleep.

It makes no sense. I am knackered ALL THE TIME, and by 8.30pm I'm a nodding dog.

Same last night.. Sat watching a film with my partner, having a beer. 8.45ish. I make it through about 2/3s of the film then it's nodding dog. She saves my beer a few times as I intermittently pass out. Christ knows what's going on in the film..

Alcohol definitely affects my sleep for the negative. I'm told I'm fast asleep the nano-second of my head hitting the pillow, but I definitely have better quality sleep after a few days of not drinking any beer. I still wake early drink or no drink.

Curse you beer for being so nice!!

Nightmare. Sorry I don't really have any answers, but I identify with you. 😴

Yeah I get this. Last few weeks have been a push at work and it's taking its toll on my sleep as it's harder to fall asleep then I'll spring awake at 3 or 4am and struggle to nod off again.

Some people say if you cant fall asleep after 30 minutes, get up and do something until you're more tired then go back to bed, but I never bother. Alcohol definitely makes it worse.

Yes likewise, fall asleep fast wake up at 5 on average every morning. Alcohol definitely makes things worse.
A couple of things I do:

front load my hydration (non-alcoholic!) through the day do I am less likely to need a pee I. The night.

Get a podcast lined up (one I’ve listened too before that isn’t too animated) and earphones plugged in. As soon as it’s clear I’m not falling asleep again I listen to the podcast with a sleep timer on. I’d say half the time I fall asleep before it turns off

Another vote for podcasts. I have a whole bunch of regular programmes lined up that I know don’t include music (that wakes me up) and are interesting. I listen to them to fall asleep at the start and middle of the night. The more I think ‘oh this is really interesting!’ and tune my brain into it, the more likely it is I’ll be asleep in minutes. And if I don’t fall asleep, because I’ve been relaxing and listening to something interesting, there’s none of the ‘argh I can’t sleep’ frustration.

Similar.
Mostly the not getting back to sleep bit, not the struggling to sleep on the first place side.
I've sort of just accepted it and have a few nights a week when I go to bed v early. I figured if I'm up at 4 , then getting to sleep in bed before 9 a few times gives me the sleep I need.
Given up on the beer and nodding dog nights cos they just leave me overtired, and with a load of movies with half hour missing off the end. Not worth fighting it for that.

My wife has had poor sleep patterns as a result of long Covid to the point where I'm sleeping in a different room!

One thing that knocks her out straight away when she does wake is some AMSR podcast/YouTube - this one in particular works well.

Lists are key for me.
When my mind is whirring it’s often because I have lots of stuff going on that needs to be done.
Simply writing it all down as a to do list really helps me. Feels like I don’t worry about forgetting it and so I go to sleep again.
That and a Zero7 album.

I found meditation and the headspace app great for this.

I go through phases of waking up in the middle of the night, but it seems more often this year, I suspect a combination of stress and the introduced alternating week shift patterns so alarm is 0450 one week and 0700 the next. It could be hearing rain, a car/motorbike pass the house, music from downstairs neighbours etc. and then I often end up browsing the web for 1 hour+ in night mode.

Amazingly I woke at 0330 last night and got straight back to sleep, without touching the mobile, next thing I knew it was 0730.

(That ASMR whispery/touchy thing creeps the bejayzuz out of me hahah)

I’d not been sleeping since Covid broke, on top of all the other family stuff going on. So anxiety through the roof. Would lay awake on STW and/or youtube until 4am. Then wake up at 7 or 8. Not good.

Recently began brisk walking an hour a day at least. Cut back on food (was shovelling carbs and sugar). Did some some ‘making peace’ mental-prep (‘whatever will be will be) and it seems that the combination has worked. I’m now yawning at ten and spark out by 12 latest. Dreaming again. If I have a bad night I stick a podcast on and that helps. Tiger balm too.

Between 4-5 is my killer. Weekdays I'm up just after 6 anyway, but I know that losing that couple of hours sleep will wipe me out later in the day, and if I get a run of it, my resistance to colds and bugs will plummet.

Woke at 4 with a really weird dystopian dream (premonition?) about my kids having to live in a Hunger Games type world, could not get back off without it recurring so got up for half an hour, checked the news, then went back to bed at 5, took about half an hour to get to sleep using some mindfulness type relaxation methods. Luckily then slept through till 7.45 and feel human at least.

Thanks, sounds like a lot of us are in the same bed (*boat...typo but I'll leave it!). I think I'll try and be more regimented with drinking, no coffee from late afternoon, and I have slipped a bit with drinking a small 330m can of beer in the evening so I'll have to try and resist.

Lists I've never tried as I don't normally feel stressed, but might give that a go along with the AMSR/podcast ideas, my wife is quite a heavy sleeper so I think I'd be able to put something on quietly without disturbing here, which is good as I've never been able to sleep with any sort of earphones or earplugs in my ears!

I slept fine for years, but over the last year or so I've had episodes of very poor sleep - with a few nights where I've not slept at all.

Sometimes that is caused by big rides and dehydration, other times work stress. I'm sure you all know the feeling of waking up at 5am and thinking "don't think about work" (or whatever propblem is vexing you generally) - and then of course you're already thinking about it.

I've actually had to look into it quite extensively as part of my job, including discussing the issue with one of the leading private specialist companies.

For milder cases (like how I've described myself), it's worth following basic sleep hygiene tips. There are lists all over the web and they're all basically the same.

For more entrenched problems, the sufferers are almost always just being anxious about not being able to go to sleep - which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. There are various potential solutions to that, have a Google and see which you think might be a good fit for you.

I have similar trouble at times. Another vote for podcasts, or even the radio. Something interesting enough to take my mind off the nonsense swirling around in my head, but not so interesting that it stimulates. Much more effective than just lying there.

Try reading Proust it used to work for me any time of the day.
Now as I am learning classical guitar I run through the Major and minor scales then the triads in each scale and then the position of all the whole notes on the fret board.
Then if that does not work I get up and do something.
Cycling round town at dawn is good.
The worst thing I found was lying there pretending to be asleep and thinking I am not asleep.

OP has described perfectly my nightly routine.  Exercising after work is always a challenge also for hydration, balancing the need to drink vs the amount of times I'm up in the night.  Same with being hungry.......

Insomnia is crappy

Same here. Deepening mental crisis with anxiety, depression, insomnia and a touch of paranoia feeding off each other means I sleep so little that I'm incapable of sitting in the car without falling asleep so Mrs Gti has to do all the driving. Typically lights out at 10.30 or 11.00 then I'm wide awake at 2.00 and listening to BBC Sounds until I have to get up at 7.30 to feed the poor bored cat. I sleep in the spare room so as not to disturb my wife but when Gti junior return we will have to share again.

If I nod off on the sofa I fall straight into a mini nightmare so unpleasant that I jerk awake in shock, so daytime sleeping is a horrible experience even when I'm nodding, we sit doing nothing all day because we are in temporary and we have no possessions and nothing to do or read.

Anxiety had me bright eyed and bushy tailed at 4.30 this morning, so got up at 5 and did a few bits and pieces and caught up with news etc. I'll flag this evening but at least at the moment this is only happening a couple of times a week.

Made the mistake of a few squares of chocolate about 9pm last night - seems to affect me more than caffeine or alcohol. Already down to 2-3 caffeinated drinks a day and none after 5pm, can see my one beer a week and any chocolate needing a 7pm curfew.

Proper insomnia is a bitch, that constant exhaustion and the knock on to my immune system which means I catch every cold going. I'm trying to stay one step ahead if it this year 🤞

The worst thing about lying awake all morning is the knowledge that you've got to get up and spend another day sitting on the sofa doing nothing.

I've been listening (just one ear in - other buried in the pillow) to episodes Infinite Monkey Cage, there's enough of them that you don't need to repeat them too often - they're interesting enough to stop your mind wandering onto all the jobs / worries, but not gripping like a drama where it's essential that you listen to keep track of the story.

Usually has me back to sleep fairly quickly

you’ve got to get up and spend another day sitting on the sofa doing nothing.

this may sound harsh, and I do follow your other posts, but why do you have to sit on the sofa all day doing nothing ? I know you said the other day you didn't feel able to get out on the bike, but why not get out for a daily walk, either on your own or with your wife ? Just half an hour of moderate walking and fresh air would likely do wonders for your mental health.

Alcohol definitely affects my sleep for the negative. I’m told I’m fast asleep the nano-second of my head hitting the pillow, but I definitely have better quality sleep after a few days of not drinking any beer. I still wake early drink or no drink.

Curse you beer for being so nice!!

my girlfriend has had to cut out alcohol because even a small amount really badly disrupts her sleep.

I've suffered from insomnia most of my life as a result of the mental health issues I have. For over 10 years now I have been using hypnotherapy and meditation to relieve my anxiety. I would seriously recommend using Andrew Johnson apps, they have helped me out in a massive way.

https://www.andrewjohnson.co.uk/

this may sound harsh, and I do follow your other posts, but why do you have to sit on the sofa all day doing nothing ? I know you said the other day you didn’t feel able to get out on the bike, but why not get out for a daily walk, either on your own or with your wife ? Just half an hour of moderate walking and fresh air would likely do wonders for your mental health.

Because even when you know this is the best suggestion, the sheer effort of dragging yourself mentally out of that black hole to physically drag yourself off the sofa and outside for that walk is absolutely HUGE.

And if you do manage it, you have to deal with the guilt and self loathing for not having managed to do such a simple thing sooner.

We sit all day doing nothing because we are depressed, bored and lonely, probably like 99 percent of the population. There's no pleasure in going out in the rain, we have nowhere to dry our kit. We have no possessions and no books, no way to bake some cookies or do some gardening or DIY or listen to music because everything in in storage.

Sounds like you're in a bit of a bind there globalti.

I may have missed this in other threads, but you should definitely be speaking to your GP if you're not already.

Otherwise, as I posted above - insomnia is largely a self-fulfilling prophecy. Which may not be helpful to know in itself, apart from that a change of mindset is generally needed - and that can often be leveraged via lifestyle changes (e.g. fresh and and exercise, as iainc suggests).

Edit:

we are depressed, bored and lonely, probably like 99 percent of the population

It can be tempting to normalise it like this when you're struggling, but don't minimise the importance of your own problems.

globalti - I do hope your situation improves as your new house nears completion, and apologies if I have upset you.

One thing I can suggest for fellow insomniacs is Mirtazapine, which is an effective tranquilliser with very few side effects and the added bonus that it helps you sleep. I have recently moved up from 15mg to 30mg a day and I am sleeping through to about 3.00, which is far far better than not sleeping at all.

Podcasts/radio /audiobooks work for me nicely. Some random recommendations:

- Gormenghast (really long, and marvellous narration, so you can just listen to the language, and even if you lose the plot when you fall asleep it means you can listen to it a number of times and gradually piece it together!)
- In Our Time (I've listened to several of them numerous times and some are so dull that I haven't got further in than about ten minutes)
- Anything with Tim Harford off R4, particularly the '50 things' series and More or Less
- Curious Cases of Rutherford and Fry (Hannah Fry 🙂
- The Life Scientific

I've found just embracing it the best policy. There's so much good stuff to listen to, even just banging the World Service on usually does the trick - interesting but not remotely exciting or funny!

Shitty condition, but still a cracking track:

I trained myself out of chronic insomnia by accepting it and also the realisation that I could still function on next to no sleep. It took a long time to dispense the anxiety about not sleeping but that was the key. Sounds obvious but what was keeping me awake was worrying about being awake. I also use a strict set of rituals on going to bed and if I wake up. They helped train myself out of it. **** me it was hard no getting away from that but in my case I had to address the single thing keeping me awake. Every pill and doctors visit was an utter waste of time. Tempazipan nearly finished me off. I really sympathise with all you insomniacs but it can be beaten by not letting it dominate your life (for me anyway)

Another sufferer here. Not always though, it only pops it's head up when I'm either highly stressed or have nothing to do the next day. Currently being unemployed and having a cycle of 2 days on the bike then 1 off means that the night before my rest day I stay up all night as I'm stressed about the future and also have nothing to do the next day, lethal combination.

Podcasts/radio /audiobooks work for me nicely.

I've been working through the Smith and Sniff podcasts the last few weeks. Doesn't make me fall asleep during them but the hour of focussing on what is being said calms my mind down so that I drop off quickly after they finish.

If I can't sleep, I get up and do something else. No point in just lying there getting pissed off. I watch netflix, play video games etc. Something mindless. If I watch telly, half the time I fall asleep on the sofa in minutes.

My mum struggled with insomnia in the days before streaming services and all she had to watch was BBC News 24!

I just came here for the music video 👍

Yes BBC Sounds has been a boon to me, although I can't listen to the relaxing classical music now because I associate it too much with the misery of lying awake!

I can't even doze on the sofa by day because I have nasty little dreams that jerk me awake. Luckily I have no trouble dropping off at bedtime after a shower and some reading. I'm reading Michael Palin's books of his travels, which are entertaining and don't cause any distress to my mind. Lots of stuff reminds me of my old life and job so is too upsetting.

My poor mum aged 90 has restless leg syndrome so seldom sleeps properly. She takes Ropinerol to control it but that causes loud bangs in her head.

Yes op, very similar. No issues going to sleep, out like a light. Used to wake around 2am and that would be it. Started when we had kids, first was absolute nightmare for the first year and basically destroyed my sleep patterns. We were also burgled which sent me into a very poor sleep cycle where the slightest sound would have me full of adrenaline and checking the house. When it was really bad I too was ill all the time. I would choke in my sleep, gp said these were night terrors/panic attacks. Proper horrible waking thinking you are dying

Often like many of you I just get up at 5am. Nice thing about this lockdown is I don’t have to get up so early so I have been able to occasionally get back to sleep

I’ve done a few things, made the bedroom really nice, all clutter is removed (rest of the house is a tip) nice bedding, mattress, eye mask blinds and blackout curtains etc...

Have been working really hard on it, sadly it’s my main life goal to sleep 7 hours straight. It’s happened once in 5.5yrs about a month ago.

I do have really weird moments, which I’m putting down to extreme fatigue, usually around 5pm ish where I feel proper shit, my hr drops right down to high 30s and basically I have to lie down. The kids can literally be jumping up and down on me, and I just go to sleep. Complete lights out and then come too 15 mins or so later.

Currently off alcohol to see if things improve, so far the same.

Good luck it’s crap isn’t it

I can’t even doze on the sofa by day because I have nasty little dreams that jerk me awake.

I try to avoid daytime napping, I tend to wake up feeling quite ill/sick!?

I've only had a couple of cans of lager since starting this last week. I have slept through to 5:45 a couple of times but still not unusual to wake at 4:30. I'll try the podcasts next to see if they help me get back to sleep.

Used to have horrendous time going to sleep.

Exercise helped a lot. Particularly weights, more so than cardio. Cutting out booze and caffeine also helped a lot.

I also had the anxiety about being awake thing. For me sorting a decent bedtime routine and losing any drugs of any kind plus being tired from exercise did the trick. Which then removed the anxiety. Kind of positive feedback I guess.

I used to get crashing which was unpleasant.

These days I just have to put up with the kids bouncing in at weird hours because of bad dreams or waking early or whatever!

I used to suffer with insomnia quite badly. There's still the odd time when I struggle to get to sleep but it's few and far between now, which is odd as I'm currently at threat of redundancy and have been for a while - if anything my life is as stressful as it has ever been. I very rarely wake up in the night or early morning though, if anything I struggle getting up. I put it down to:

1) just going to bed later! Explains the struggling to get up but it works for me
2) the headspace app, I know this was mentioned earlier and I can highly recommend this. I often drift off listening to a 10 minute meditation and come around as it's finishing ready for bed in a sort of half sleep.
3) walking much more. I aim for a minimum of 12,500 steps every day and you'd be surprised what a difference this can make for two reasons: the exercise, and the time you get to take in some fresh air and listen to a podcast (currently working my way through Shaun Attwoods true crime podcast, some brilliant characters on there, highly recommend it)
4) planning less - I know some have said that making lists etc help them - for me I found I was planning too much and I would be going over these plans in my head constantly. Particularly for me I had a lot of work to do on the house and I would be going over everything that needed doing. I found it helped to forget about the majority of it and concentrate on one thing at a time.
5) I try not to drink caffeine after 5pm, and substitute the odd coffee for decaffeinated.
6) I work shifts, so I try and get some regularity in my meals. Absolutely always eat 3 meals a day. Always try and drink plenty of fluids early in the day so I'm not dehydrated later in the day, drinking water which will wake me up. I always, always drink a pint of water when I wake up.
7) alcohol means I get to sleep quickly, but have a less restful sleep. Moderation is key, but that amount differs for everyone.
8) decluttering and keeping things tidy. We had so much junk in our house - the first room I decorated and decluttered was the bedroom and it made a huge difference. Neutral colours, new comfortable mattress and an air purifier to minimise dust. A few air purifying houseplants dotted about also.

I think if you can work through all these things it could make a big difference but if you're genuinely still struggling, even with plenty of exhausting exercise, there could be deeper problems that aren't being dealt with and a visit to the GP could be useful.

I myself suffered from alopecia about 5 years ago so took most of these steps to try and deal with this, but the knock on effect has come close to eliminating any insomnia I had. I can totally empathise with lack of sleep = weakened immune system.

For the short term, have the doc prescribe you a short course of Diazepam 2mg.
Sometimes its the body clock is out of sync. They arent strong, but do very much aid sleep.

Take one, go lie down in your bedroom, no lights, curtains closed. Maybe a couple of days of regular sleep in those normal hours will bring things back on track.

Ironically I'm up at nearly 2am as I can't sleep after posting on this thread earlier.

Like I said earlier it's because I don't have any concrete plans for tomorrow so I subconsciously don't see why I should go to bed.