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For me teaching has come a long way, back when I was at school it was a nightmare, teachers actively picking who in their class was worth teaching and at what level, lots left behind, as there’s always menial or manual jobs for them of course.
From what I see now it’s a world apart, my daughter loves her teachers, they help her and know her, as they do all of the class, I just find teachers more professional and understanding nowadays, as well as overworked and under resourced.
Incorrect
Is incorrect pay is over 12 months. But the days to earn that pay is term time weekdays. Whole years pay earned over 196days (or whatever). This was done to stop people striking or taking leave that costs time. 1 day off costs nearly 2 days pay/pension.
First hit I got after my initial comment. In any case neither teachers or support staff are paid sufficiently in my view whether the holidays are priced in, it's pro rata, or annualised. Investment in the country's future is investment in education.
If a supply teacher teaches every day of the school year, getting paid at their day rate, they earn the same as they would in a full time teaching position. We're paid for 200 days, but it's in 12 equal installments over the year.
For a job that's so well paid and so cushy it's strange that there's an issue with recruitment and retention. I have it relatively easy in a sixth form college - anyone who manages more than a few years in primary or secondary deserves a medal. I did 3.5 terms of primary and left.
Mrs Pondo is a teacher - the hours and effort she and many of her colleagues is vastly underestimated by the majority of people who don't know of or live with a teacher. She'll regularly be at work from when the gates open in the morning until she gets kicked out in the evening, will then regularly work from home in the evening, regularly works weekends and regularly works during her holidays, and she's not unique in that, as this thread testifies. Increasingly, that's against a backdrop of increasing workload and decreasing resource, and a slow drop in the lack of respect towards education that means that children are more likely to get their parents to get them out of homework or detention or intervention than they are to attend, whilst of course the performance-related pay and relentless drive to improve results continues. Now many secondaries are academies run by trusts, profit is now key, so she has to buy much of her own stationary and supplies, the school canteen offers shit food because the company they outsourced to has to turn a profit, and teachers have to cover lunch and break time duties because that's cheaper than hiring dinner ladies. Her school has a massive staffing issue this year (half the teaching staff, Mrs Pondo included, are leaving, in some cases to other schools, some to non-teaching jobs, which means many staff next year will be NQTs or Teach First, who are significantly cheaper than experienced teachers, all to make sure the trust director can keep himself in new Mercedes.
Not all teachers are conscientious and hard working, although many are - but there's a limit to how far that piece of string can be stretched until it breaks. I don't think breaking point is too far off.
Teachers pay is different in the different nations. Del's article has "England only." At the start.
the school canteen offers shit food because the company they outsourced to has to turn a profit,
You can't really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don't offer any sort of canteen, shit or not.
the school canteen offers shit food because the company they outsourced to has to turn a profit,
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not.
The point is that the kids are eating this shit, and then dozing all afternoon from too much lard. And getting fatter by the day.
I've worked long term in two schools. In one the food was reasonable, in the other I wouldn't touch it: greasy, stinking non-food.
If there's one thing worth investing a few extra quid in it's decent food for kids.
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not.
I think you’ve missed the point; school children are not employees, are they? They’re children who need a proper balanced diet, and the school dinner is the only opportunity some of them get for actual real food, that isn’t nutritionally devoid shite, which they get at home if they’re lucky.
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not.
I really can. 🙂 Whether they took it or not, schools had the opportunity to provide genuinely healthy food if they wanted to - this school now outsources it so shit quality burger and chips is it, for our rapidly-expanding children.
Feeding kids crappy food is such a short sighted policy. Good nutrition in childhood would probably save the NHS billions in later life. I’m sure I read about a study once that decent food in prisons reduced recidivism. We’re so stupid.
I got complained about by the head for getting into school too early (7.15 after a 28 mile drive) as it was a PFI building and they wanted more money as a result of my conscientiousness.
/taking the piss
Being a teacher is a doodle...
My best mate is a head teacher in a large Scottish secondary. His entire career is based on "open your books at page 23. If you get stuck, the answers are at the back"
Taking the piss/
After school she has to mark the pupils books, which for a class 28 doing four lessons in a day is potentially over 100 books
Wow. I never take pupil’s books in to mark. What a waste of time. I presume this is something she is obligated to do?
Teachers....or should I say school
I can't wait for my kid to finish school...from what I'm told its all political with stupid rules made upby people who haven't worked in the real world.
Basically they gone to school as a kid went to uni and then gone back to school.
Yeah you get some good teachers...but the one in authority are up their own butt's.
I'm not a fan.....and this is coming from a parent with a straight A kid
from what I’m told
the one in authority are up their own butt’s.
And thus the child is in charge of this relationship.
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not.
😄😄😄😄😄If ever a post exemplified exactly how much people don't understand about schools and education this is it. Top work!!
You can’t really complain about that when the vast majority of employers don’t offer any sort of canteen, shit or not
You could not have missed the point more.
I can’t wait for my kid to finish school…from what I’m told its all political with stupid rules made up by people who haven’t worked in the real world.
Not in any school I've worked in. Also what is the real world?
Teachers….or should I say school
I can’t wait for my kid to finish school…from what I’m told its all political with stupid rules made upby people who haven’t worked in the real world.
Basically they gone to school as a kid went to uni and then gone back to school.
Yeah you get some good teachers…but the one in authority are up their own butt’s.
I’m not a fan…..and this is coming from a parent with a straight A kid
Priceless...
You're spot on, teachers should get a two year apprentice course and then be straight in the deep end teaching physics, maths, Ingerlish or whatever to your little "straight A" darlings, as well as kids with special educational needs, kids with issues at home, various other traumas and field all the crap from parents on a spectrum ranging from pushy to actively anti-school to disinterested... Oh and whe should only pay them during term time, they can side hustle deliveroo during the summer hols...
If school is "too political" with rules you don't like, don't blame teachers they're just teaching a curriculum set by government and following the rules set by the LEA/governors/government... Well from what I'm told anyway
If it's so easy why didn't you home school them?
I’m not a fan…..and this is coming from a parent with a straight A kid
Hmm. Maybe if you supported them better your kid might actually get good grades 😉
made upby people who haven’t worked in the real world
Interesting. My daughter is somewhat tempted to go into teaching, having now worked in the ‘real world’ for about 6 years. However, she doesn’t think she could cope with the c £50 000 pay cut!
Furthermore, if you have a degree in say maths, the sciences or computing etc - there is a reduced chance of ‘progressing’ within the profession. Since it is difficult to find replacement staff, promoted posts are full of PE teachers.
people who haven’t worked in the real world
It usually turns out that those who make these 'real world' comments live in detached houses, take an air-conditioned drive straight to work in their air-conditioned office, then straight home again. They ignore the cleaning staff at work, and only ever talk to a 'prole' if they have to do an emergency shop at Asda instead of their usual Waitrose delivery.
Go and work in a comp in Balham if you want to find out what the 'real world' is like.
I can’t wait for my kid to finish school…from what I’m told its all political blah blah blah.
What does your kid say?
We need a list of acceptable real world jobs. Yours, for example?
The comments about teachers not 'working in the real world' really boil my piss.
When I was teaching I had to deal with kids that had been abused and were coming in to school, kids whose parents had died, kids who had lost their homes so were basically homeless. Kids who were going through the care system, kids whose parents were just divorcing...the list goes on. Teachers deal with the real world every day, the real problems that families face, helping children negotiate life with all the sh*t things happening to them.
They are heroes.
Haha ha....im a builder with my own business, I do the lot from digging footings to kitchens/bathrooms...to paper work in the evenings
And from what I heard is from other parents inc the PTA ones...and my kid.
Haha ha….im a builder with my own business, I do the lot from digging footings to kitchens/bathrooms…to paper work in the evenings
And from what I heard is from other parents inc the PTA ones…and my kid.
Phew, that’s fortunate - you can get your child a job in your business. I’ve heard that in the real world, most jobs have all sorts of petty rules 😉
If digging holes is what you aspire to for your kids, crack on - shame you can't be arsed to form opinions from your own experience, instead of relying on others to tell you what to think. 😉
Ha, of course, ha.
Ah yes, builders - we all know about builders.
They overprice the job, do shoddy work, use inferior materials to those they charge you for. They ‘go to see the supplier’ then spend four hours having lunch. They sit on top of scaffolding where they cannot be seen reading the Sun*. They fiddle their tax books and pay people off the cards lower than minimum wage.
My mate who knows a builder told me all this, so it must be true.
*I actually did this when I was a labourer. The trick is to position the ladder so it has to be moved before anyone can climb it, then you know when they’re coming.
I do the lot
But can you deal with an accompanied migrant child who speaks no English or a child who has been removed from an abusive parent, or numerous other kids who have seen more of this so called 'real world' and all of its harms than you will ever see if you lived 10x your number of lives all whilst having to deal with little Jimmy in the corner who's dad is a builder and knows more about education than the teachers in the school and so doesn't feel the need to follow these so called 'rules' that are put in place?
Nothing wrong with digging holes....its strange how you homed in on that aspect...
I'm also deaf and mixed race and grew up on council estate in the 70s so now I must be really in the gutter of your opinions
Yeah your probably right it's wrong of me to tar the school system/teachers...maybe it's just the school my kid goes to...so I apologise to all..peace n love
A Flexible mind cheekyget, that’s something I truly admire. Peace to you too.
As I said when I opened the thread, "it’s a tough job and getting tougher with the lack of respect from pupils and parents alike". Many of the problem kids at my son's school are that way because their parents don't or won't work with the school; at the prospectus evening for the school when we were looking at selections back in 2014, the headmaster talked of a three-way contract between the school, the pupil and the parents, and if any parent thought their job was to drop them off in September and pick them up 5 years later, then he'd be having quite a big falling out with them.
Eldest llama is a teacher. She works hard, cares about her pupils, and makes a difference.
She is also political, because, well it's hard not to be if you care about you pupils and want to make a difference.
Interesting thread this, as a I recently started a teaching career. I used to have a job in the 'real world' using the languages I learnt at school, until I figured I'd rather argue with grumpy teenagers than Tesco buyers...
My working week will start tomorrow, after dinner it will take me about 3-4 hours to prep the 7 lessons I have tomorrow. Most evenings, it will take me from approx 8 until 9/10pm to do the class prep. I get to my classroom at 7:30, teach until 15:00 (apart from tomorrow when it's 17:00). I get home about 17-18:00, eat, try to relax and start lesson prep. Every month or two there's a parents' evening 16:00-19:00. 37 relentless 5 minute Zoom calls with no break, a few meetings and lots of CPD. I've never had the courage to wok out my hourly rate since I took a pay cut from working in the 'real world' but it's bound to be closer to minimum wage than whatever made-up figure gets bandied around the news in the next few weeks.
Some highlights so far in about 5 years of teaching:
Being accused by a parent of beating his child bloody with a pencil case. (I had tapped him on the shoulder to wake him up in an exam and suggested it was a touch rude to be sleeping)
A card from a year 11 student this year saying "eres un profesor increíble" and thanking me, saying she thinks she will get a great grade. Was a bit dusty in my classroom when I opened that.
A year 11 student saying she was going to pick Spanish A level.
And just the other week, discussing the resurrection of Jesus, a student said "Is that when Jesus re-spawned?"
Such a weird profession, almost impossible to describe accurately what it's like to someone without actually living it yourself.
its strange how you homed in on that aspect…
You bought it up. 😉
Yeah your probably right it’s wrong of me to tar the school system/teachers…maybe it’s just the school my kid goes to…so I apologise to all..peace n love
Fair play, and I'm wrong to A - define your job as "digging holes", and B - wrong to suggest that there's anything wrong with that even were that solely your job. I get defensive when people make sweeping generalisations about teachers as, in my experience, those generalisations are born of ignorance. Despite the "generous pay", despite the holidays, despite the "cushy job", teachers are leaving the profession in droves because they'd rather work in the "real world" (whatever that means) than carry on living this easy life everyone assumes they have. If parents empower their children to devalue education, schools don't work - teachers have no mandate if parents tell their kids they don't have to work at it.
MrsG is a teacher - since she left Uni many years ago and teaches almost exclusively to later years Business and Economics. There are lots of highlights - getting students from her comp to LSE or top Unis or meeting former students locally in their 20’s - 30’s who still remember and comment on her classes.
It’s a relentless job though especially for core subjects and primary teaching. I have massive respect for those teachers and how much it’s a vocation for many as much as a job.
I have great respect for some teachers with what they deal with.
As a child struggling with being dislexic, not learning how children should. Battling with things like being told by a headmaster that he "didn't have that dislexia disease in his school". Constantly being punished for not being able to regurgitate the subject parrot fashion because I didn't learn the convenient way, being humiliated for it.
They would promote themselves with achievements I had outside of school like it was something they had done. I have no good memories from school.
It took me quite a few years of working before wanting to go back to college on my own terms due to dislike of the ways of the education system and being able to deal with the sort of a'holes that that thought that word count essays in a subject that was not language focused was something to behold.
^ this is awful, but how long ago was that
It was 80s/90s - the results cascade and it's understandable why there are disillusioned parents that can't help their child because the system failed them.
teachers have no mandate if parents tell their kids they don’t have to work at it.
This ^
It should be a 3 way situation between schools/teachers, students and parents.
But so often parents don't engage or actively avoid any responsibility for what their children do in school.
Currently trying hard to get one of my tutees to do any work (not just homework, but engaging in lessons, revision for mocks just gone, not being late to every lesson, truancy, etc.)
Unfortunately the parent is totally not on board, says things like 'I didn't get any good grades at school, so I don't see why he needs them.' It takes me, or the HoY, about 10 phone calls to actually get through, they never come to meetings or parents evevings.
Most recent head-banging-against-wall moment was them saying 'I don't care what grades he gets. He'll probably do ok when he leaves.' With help like that who needs enemies?!
With help like that who needs enemies?!
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
I do believe me. I had a shite time at school, bullied (with school turning a blind eye), some terrible teachers - Told I would never amount to anything on one occasion.
Luckily I had supportive parents.
I actively got into teaching to try and right some of the wrongs I encountered.
But...some parents behaviour often comes across as actively sabotaging their children's chances, just cos they didn't have a good time at school. Makes me sad and mad!
I think you need to think about where the parents has come from and why they may think the way they do.
You think teachers need to parent the parents as well as teach their kids? 🙂
You think teachers need to parent the parents as well as teach their kids?
No. Teachers need to accept that their peers have failed a lot of parents.