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So we were supposed to go to Italy over Xmas to see the girlfriend's family but that's not going to happen for various reasons, so we're off to Scotland over Xmas and NY. That was my preferred option from the start, so result there! I just hope my diesel heater doesn't break down 🙂
We'll be staying in the van, and hopefully wild camping (with hammocks, not in the van) a couple of nights. So first questions are, anywhere to avoid due to being busy or any quiet spots that anyone could recommend? Obviously not expecting top secret spots to be shared in an open forum but anything quietish would be great! Not got any plans as to where to go specifically but we'll have over a week so should be able to see a fair bit. I've been to Scotland a fair few times before but always riding and in the summer. This is winter with a gf who doesn't ride so my 'spots' are kinda irrelevant, I'm not sure she'd like a walking tour of the Golfie 🙂
On that note, I'll be bringing my snowboard, what's the best ski areas to visit? she doesn't board either so I'll only get one day of that. Worth bringing the bike too or is it muddy as hell up there? Don't mind getting muddy but bringing the bike up to just get a morning or two riding in bad conditions and coating the inside of the van in mud may not be worth it
Also, I plan on proposing to the gf up there, preferably up the top of a mountain/hill, somewhere with a spectacular view we'll remember. Any suggestions?
Finally, thinking of getting hold of some snow chains. Not sure I'll ever need them again and locally I can only get some that go down to 195/80-15 and my tyres are 195/70-15. Surely the 10mm extra radius won't make them too slack to use?
Really excited for this one, been trying to get her up to Scotland for ages but never had the opportunity
Deeside,maybe around the Braemar/Ballater area.
From my limited experience, I would expect anywhere further than half a mile from a town or car park will be quiet at that time of the year. It may well be very cold! Whenever I’ve done festive 500, I seldom see anyone. And that’s heading out from the edge of Edinburgh.
Sounds like she'll have hoot, does she really want to do what you want to do?
If she's not a walker Ben A'an is very doable, and you get a good sense of space at the top.
I didn't think it would be busy over the festive period but COVID has taught me to challenge all my assumptions! If a 500 is an option that would be great as it would simplify the planning if nothing else
Sounds like she’ll have hoot, does she really want to do what you want to do?
Wha?
If she’s not a walker Ben A’an is very doable, and you get a good sense of space at the top
She loves walking and has all the gear, that said I also don't want to risk going anywhere where a weather turn would cause us issues so something like that may be a good idea. Looks stunning for the relatively little effort
Apologies I’d I’m off the mark here, but
This is winter with a gf who doesn’t ride
That was my preferred option from the start,
she doesn’t board either
If I was to propose to my partner I’d be making sure we spent the entire holiday as a couple, not doing what I want to do. Staying in a lodge for a couple of nights in/near Aviemore would be my recommendation, the rest touring the Cairngorms in the van.
Schiehallion is a cracking walk on a blue sky frosty morning with good views or cycle around the south side of it with the downhill to Fortinghall , Aberfeldy or Kenmore/Loch Tay area plenty blown wood for your fire and wild parking areas but if the weather turns stay near St Andrews , good walks along the beach, Pilgrims way to ride your bike, trip down to Elie do the chain walk, skiing an hour and ten mins up at Glenshee , plenty of easy munroz to claim
Aye, what Paino said ^
Beinn Eighe is a really lovely walk and you can park in the small carpark at the start of the trail at Loch Maree. The walk isn't long or tough but you get in amongst some amazing mountains, with fabulous views all long the walk.
Your plan sounds just like something that I'd have done 10 years ago.
Which essentially confirms paino and Naebeer's viewpoints perfectly.
Go up to Scotland, nips off for a day boarding.
Take the bike. Squeeze in some biking.
But leave a couple of hours free to spend with her to pop the question
We'll be heading up and touring around at the same time....we both ski though, and I already got the proposal out of the way earlier in the summer!
Plenty of spots in Cairngorms etc to park up responsibly, there's an aire style place on Cairngorm ski car park now, expensive at 15 quid given that the 'facilities' aren't great, epic views though and you can empty toilet cassette there etc.
I'm lead believe that you just need to keep an eye on forecasts/Facebook pages and make a decision on the day for skiing in Scotland. Plenty of nice places to eat etc in Aviemore.
Hammocks can be very limiting as well - you need trees but not plantation?
Chains unlikely to be needed unless you must go down tiny roads high up
At this time of year there's no point trying to plan trips that are weather dependant. The only people sitting down today and picking which ski centre to go to on the 29th December, or which mountain to climb on the 28th or wondering if a trail will be muddy on the 27th are people who have to be in a particular place on a particular day and will go pretty much regardless of the weather. If you want to do it with a degree of comfort all you can really do it head up and then plan a couple of days ahead.
Keep in mind its only daylight for about 7-8 hrs a day, its quite likely to be miserable weather and your snow chains will perhaps get you out of a tricky car park but likely land you either in a queue of other traffic that can't move or the major routes will just have snow gates closed. I'm not trying to piss on your chips but camper vans with a dodgy diesel heater, hammocks in sub zero temperatures, and outdoor pursuits she's not interested in are not making for the best chances of her saying yes!
AFAIK the lifts aren't running at Cairngorm, the train is knackered. Glencoe is the best spot for riding in my opinion, small but steep and loads of fun terrain. If the GF is not a skier / snowboarder I would avoid though, the lodge burnt down 2 winters ago and they've not rebuilt it yet. So she'll be sitting in the van in the carpark for 4 or 5 hours. Glenshee is also worth a shout when they have most of the terrain open. There is a lodge / cafe there but I'd probably not leave anyone there for more than an hour. Lecht is "a snowy hill" in the words of my BIL. Nevis good but I haven't been there in years. Though a day in Fort William is probably more enticing for the GF than any of the other options, which are basically car parks in the middle of nowhere with lifts going up the hill.
Also, hammocks outside? It's baltic at the minute!
Hammocks can be very limiting as well
If I was proposing to an Italian girlfriend I'd want to have somewhere with a big comfy bed to spend the night following the proposal!
If I was to propose to my partner I’d be making sure we spent the entire holiday as a couple, not doing what I want to do. Staying in a lodge for a couple of nights in/near Aviemore would be my recommendation, the rest touring the Cairngorms in the van.
Yeah thanks for all the relationship advice guys, luckily I'm taking my partner away and not yours!
Out of 10 days I'll be doing 2-3 mornings of riding/boarding while she lays in bed. In fact it'll probably be just the one morning of boarding as I'm not sure I'll have the room for the bike & kit along with 10 days worth of cold weather gear. That's what we do on all our van trips, and she prefers as it means she can chill out and read a book while I burn off some steam. I just need to park her up somewhere nice
As for all the useful advice, thankyou! schiehallion and beinn eighe look amazing. Although all those big hills look amazing to someone from as far down south as me 🙂
Glencoe is the best spot for riding in my opinion
No way is Glencoe better than Cairngorms for riding.
schiehallion and beinn eighe look amazing
Controversial, I know, but Schiehallion is possibly the most disappointing Munro I've done. It's an amazing looking mountain on it's Northern aspect, but the path up from the south is just a very easy meander, with a bit of a boulder field.
That link is great, thanks beamers! I will be erring very much on the side of caution anyway but the more informed the better
Also, would be great if you would all stop assuming that because my partner is a girl she is unable to withstand any kind of walking/cold/van sleeping/hammock camping. She just doesn't know how to ride a bike or snowboard is all, and is more excited than me about going up there as she always hears me talking about how beautiful it is
@Nobeerinthefridge the Coe does have a functioning lift system, which is a plus...
Aye, but you'll struggle to get a bike anywhere near a track given how cold it's been! Long term weather models look as if it's going to get colder too.
If you're hoping to ride (the bike) have a wee look at this - Storm damage
Glencoe have a temporary cafe and good campervan facilities.
All ski area can be awesome or crap on any given day so stay flexible.
ah I was referring to snowboarding as 'riding.' (never call it boarding).
Beinn Eighe is a really lovely walk and you can park in the small carpark at the start of the trail at Loch Maree. The walk isn’t long or tough but you get in amongst some amazing mountains, with fabulous views all long the walk.
That's a great place to propose... Thankfully she also agreed.
ah I was referring to snowboarding as ‘riding.’ (never call it boarding).
I also usually do this but call it boarding on a mountainbiking forum to avoid these misunderstandings. In the US they universally call snowboarding riding as they call mountainbiking biking instead of riding anyway. At least where I've been anyway
Sounds like Bein Eighe is the best candidate for the important question then!
Chains unlikely to be needed unless you must go down tiny roads high up
This. Also the 'slack' will be an issue, you may need to get creative with some dyneema. At the very least try them on before you need them
Also remember it will be dark. For a long time. 4 til 8 minimum Inverness, on a dreich day much longer
I once fell asleep on the summit of Schiehallion on a hot day. No shirt on so when I woke up I looked like a lobster from the front and a pint of milk from the back. I don't think you'll have that problem at christmas.
Otherwise I'd say book somewhere for a meal on the day of your proposal, keep an eye on the weather reports and the covid reports. Good luck to you and enjoy your trip.
Have a great time btw, hope you get nice conditions and a lovely spot for the moment mate.
I didn’t think it would be busy over the festive period
Are you 'aving a laugh?
Now that the riding/ riding confusion has been sorted, just leaves two things
When people are referring to Beinn Eighe, I think/expect they are referring to Coire Vekerriker ( excuse spelling) not the actual summit. The coire and triple buttress and Loch are amazing. Don't go up Bein Eighe by mistake thinking that's what people are suggesting.
https://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/torridon/coire-mhic-fhearchair.shtml
Also, WRT to hammocks, it's got nothing to do with gender or your missus neshness or not. It's just people pointing out that a hammock is a very cold way to sleep and not to be recommended lightly at that time of year in that location
I happily slept in a snow hole at Cairngorm car park once.
I also had a 5 and a 7 year old kid sleeping in the roof of the campervan at minus 5.5c (-9c outside)
Both were wonderful, but we had the best 5 season Rab bags that money can buy and didn't have the side of a hammock compressing the insulation.
I wouldn't sleep in a hammock at minus 9 at CG carpark.
YMMV
I'd be looking for a place with a good swimming pool/sauna great to warm up if your feeling cold so if the ferry is running get over to Arran, walk up Goatfell cracking wee trip then use the facilities at the hotel just down the road for a swim /sauna and a meal, Arran aromatics are included when you shower
If the weather turns windy your return ferry might say no
We drove to Braemar one Easter. That A road from the South goes over a proper mountain pass (Cairnwell Pass, highest main road in Britain at 670m) with very long stakes at the roadside so I imagine it could very well be properly snowy up there. And there's a signal for cold weather on the way over Christmas in the long forecast.
When people are referring to Beinn Eighe, I think/expect they are referring to Coire Vekerriker ( excuse spelling) not the actual summit. The coire and triple buttress and Loch are amazing. Don’t go up Bein Eighe by mistake thinking that’s what people are suggesting.
Thanks for that! and RE the hammocks we sleep in one at least once a month all year round so have the underblankets, sleeping mats etc to deal with coldness. The first time I did a winter hammock camp assuming my sleeping bag alone would keep me warm I did not have a good night 🙂
Arran is something we would like to see along with Skye, although ferry troubles are something we could do without, living on a small island ourselves 🙂
Deeside,maybe around the Braemar/Ballater area
Now going to Ballater might have me in trouble. Heartbreak ridge is possibly my favourite trail ever and I'd be disappearing off to do that all day, resulting in an unhappy gf and possibly being in trouble with Forestry as I understand it is probably closed along with Mastermind and everything else around there
Controversial, I know, but Schiehallion is possibly the most disappointing Munro I’ve done. It’s an amazing looking mountain on it’s Northern aspect, but the path up from the south is just a very easy meander, with a bit of a boulder field.
You don't walk up a hill to look at the path, you walk up for the view - and it's a stunner, all the way to the Buachaille.
As others have said, there's a lot of darkness (currently 4pm to 8pm, and give it another couple of weeks and it'll be darker for longer. Long time to sit in a van.
Controversial, I know, but Schiehallion is possibly the most disappointing Munro I’ve done. It’s an amazing looking mountain on it’s Northern aspect, but the path up from the south is just a very easy meander, with a bit of a boulder field.
And a zillion false summits. Great snow slide on a bivvy bag down the northern side tho IIRC
But have you not done the Drumochter munros? IIRC described in the book as dull mountains with substandard views. Done them twice in winter in zero visibility!. Seriously dull. the second time I nearly spat the dummy but the chap I was with was an avid bagger so I had to do them with him to stop him wandering off on his own
As others have said, there’s a lot of darkness (currently 4pm to 8pm, and give it another couple of weeks and it’ll be darker for longer. Long time to sit in a van.
This is a valid point and something we've considered. It's only half hour more darkness than we'd get at home, and we'd be sat in a house anyway so we've decided we don't care. We like reading and chatting and listening to music so it'll be fine. Add in a couple nighttime walks and a couple nights parked outside a pub/restaurant and it'll not be more than a couple evening where we actually sit in the van all eve. And as we're not booking or committing to anything if we get bored we'll just drive home!
9:30 before the sun rose over the mountains this morning.
Will be nice to see the sun rise without having to be up at the crack of dawn then!
Absolutely! Same (opposite) for sunset too.
But have you not done the Drumochter munros?
Yes, I have, it's all about expectation though. Ditto the cairnwell ones, if you don't expect much, you won't be disappointed.
I'd keep as many options open as possible to make the most of whatever the weather chucks at you. There can be dramatic West/East coast variations depending on wind direction. There can be pockets of good weather to be found when wet in the hills. Spectacular sunrises from the East Neuk of Fife at this time of year. But you wouldn't chose to be here in an Easterly.
Bin the camping. It's winter. 😆 It's not even that it's cold it's more the 17 hours of darkness that's a shift and a half. Campings great if you are getting views and can chill outside. Not so much if you can't! You don't get views at night!
This is a nice spot. Brilliant beach. THe Balintore Inn lets people park on the verge between the pub and the sea.
https://goo.gl/maps/3bhYLggRfJK37Mf88
In the winter in the right conditions the nearby Tarbet NEss lighthouse could be a decent spotto see the northern lights. Pretty far north and unobstructed horizon with no nearby light polution.
If you are in that area a visit to Chanory Point to see the dolphins is an idea. Been there twice and seen them both times.
https://www.moraydolphins.co.uk/chanonry-point.html