Forum menu
Ok, enlighten me how a working class person becomes middle class
For example:
Start out in a poor family from a rough council estate, going to a crap comprehensive. End up with a nice house in a good area, with kids at private school, a degree and a well paid professional career while enjoying such things as theatre, classical music (possibly performing as well as appreciating), art (possibly creating as well as appreciating) and travel.
I know many people just in my company who fit the profile of a working class start who're now clearly middle class - and not just because of what they earn but also on their outlook and hobbies etc.
deadlydarcy, I would be interested in what you think poor is and what you think rich is in relation to that suggestion.
lunge, here's a thing...have a think about it...it's just an interesting philosophical idea really...what do you class as "poor"? You're the one placing such importance on the "pound in your pocket".
Since leaving school I have learn't this.
It is much easier being a socialist when your poor.
but
When you've worked hard, done the all nighters, 100+ hour weeks, worried yourself and sick risked your own home to make sure your staff are paid.
Giving more of that money you've earn't to people wearing Matalan tracksuit bottoms who insist on holding their balls while they walk around somewhat grates.
we now live on a diet of micro-chips and scratch cards.
I must say I find it utterly vulgar, that people flaunt their wealth in such an ostentatious manner. It's just rubbing our noses in it... 🙁
epicsteve...I reckon you and all your mates are nouveau-riche, non? 🙂
Talkemada - sometimes (but only as a special treat), we have curry sauce on them. That's living la vida loca!
You bon viveur you! 😮
Just add boiling water barnsleymitch...
[img] 
[/img]
epicsteve...I reckon you and all your mates are nouveau-riche, non?
[b]A person who has suddenly risen to a higher economic status but has not gained social acceptance of others in that class;[/b]
While I'd love to have the cash for that sort of problem I don't think it's as much as issue in the middle classes as they appear to come from a variety of backgrounds. Take the private school my kids attend for example - the parents range from those that own significant chunks of Edinburgh to a couple living in a small flat, working hard and not taking foreign holidays to fund their only child's education. We're somewhere in the middle and appear to be fairly typical in fact.
Talkemada - Chapeaux sir, chapeaux. Now get back on your knees, you whey faced poltroon - you're still supposed to be doing penance for taking our lady of the sacred cheeks' name in vain.
Talkemada - sometimes (but only as a special treat), we have curry sauce on them. That's living la vida loca!
Apparently cheese is replacing curry sauce as the masses preferred topping for chips.
epic, I should have used a different smiley there...I was merely taking the pish...
Fair dues to you all though. You're doing very well for yourselves.
Moi? I'm nouveau-pauvre myself... 😥
deadlydarcy - boiling water? What do you think I am, made of money?
Moi? I'm nouveau-pauvre myself...
I've nouveau-p1ssed off myself, mainly because the company switched phone providers yesterday and now our Blackberries aren't receiving email. I'm on holiday next week and don't think a week without email is a surviveable event... Up in the wilds of north-west Scotland (with bikes!) as well so the 3G modem won't be working either.
My wife seems rather happier with the situation however!
Tsk - proof that you just can't buy class
Gentlemen - I think you'll find the meal of choice is donner shavings and chips with melted cheese, served in a polystyrene tray of course
Deadlydarcy - I could give a shit, indeed I do every day, however, I really struggle to understand the sort of idiot who is happy to divide society into simple groupings of something so badly designed as "class" and then spend their lives hating other people for not being like them.
Oh, and Binners - you have my permission to call me Sir Lord Cranberry.
I shall be suitably respectful in future sir, lest you have peasant hunting legalised after the next election 😀
whey faced poltroon
I don't even know what that means but it's funny! 😆
you're still supposed to be doing penance for taking our lady of the sacred cheeks' name in vain.
But I haven't sir, I haven't! I have been worshipping at the altar of Her Lovely Bottomness thrice nightly, and 5 times on Sundays! 🙁
Start out in a poor family from a rough council estate, going to a crap comprehensive
And you think that this has no bearing on who you are ? All the chateau neuf du pape in the world isn't going to change that.
enjoying such things as theatre, classical music (possibly performing as well as appreciating), art (possibly creating as well as appreciating) and travel.
Of course the working classes couldn't possibly appreciate those, you must have suddenly become middle class.
You carry on thinking you've bought your way out. It seems to be working out just fine for you. 8)
All the chateau neuf du pape in the world isn't going to change that.
I don't drink, but I think you may have had too much...
[i]Working class is a term used in academic sociology and in ordinary conversation to describe those employed in lower tier jobs, as measured by skill, education and lower incomes. [/i]
[i]The middle class are any class in the middle of a social schema. In Weberian socio-economic terms they are the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socioeconomically between the working class and upper class.[/i]
[i]In sociology an upper class is the group of people at the top of a social hierarchy. Members of an upper class may have great power over the allocation of resources and governmental policy in their area, but only to the extent that the power of the state can intervene in free exchange or distort investment[/i]
Using the above definitions (rather than your more arbitrary ones) then clearly it's quite common for people to move from the working to middle class.
[i]In February 2009, the Economist magazine announced that over half the world's population now belongs to the middle class, as a result of rapid growth in emerging countries. It characterized the middle class as having a reasonable amount of discretionary income, so that they do not live from hand to mouth as the poor do, and defined it as beginning at the point where people have roughly a third of their income left for discretionary spending after paying for basic food and shelter.[/i]
cranberry - MemberI really struggle to understand the sort of idiot who is happy to divide society into simple groupings of something so badly designed as "class"
Social classes exist...........even though you might like to pretend they don't - possibly because it suits your own agenda.
Amongst the "idiots" who recognise this fact and "divide society into simple groupings" are, sociologists, anthropologists, political economists, and social historians.
From the Times:
[b]The WORKING class[/b]
A “live for today” attitude; believe that income is the best measure of social status; borrow to spend on treats
[b]The MIDDLE classes [/b]
Invest in shares and ISAs; believe that education is the best measure of status; live in a detached house
[b]The UPPER classes [/b]
Generally describe themselves as middle class; avoid taxes; universally disliked
Talkemada - I was getting medieval on your arse with the whey faced poltroon thing. Now say five hail Kylies and stop whingeing!
Hail Kylie
Hail Kylie
Hail Kylie
Hail Kylie
Hail Kylie
Can I go now?
Yes. And fasten your trousers - cheekybadboy!
"Ok, enlighten me. How does a working class person become middle class"
Exactly like my dad did. Came from a classic working class background, worked his balls off for 20 years, travelled, broadened his horizons, got qualifications, tried other things. There's still a wee Leith hardnut in him but it's just part of who he is. DEFINATELY middle class now, he owned a Passat estate 
Came from a classic working class background, worked his balls off for 20 years, travelled, broadened his horizons, got qualifications, tried other things
I think you'll find that quite a few working class types work their balls off - I certainly have. And yes I've got some qualifications. Although I've always found building sites close enough not to need to travel - does mean I haven't made it into the middle-classes ?
You do talk a load of balls sometimes Ernie Of course I'm not saying that's the only way to do it... it's just how he did it. But Trail_monkey seems to think it can't be done at all, so I'm giving him a nice simple example of one person who's done it. Go argue with someone who disagrees with you!
I was always shocked whilst studying Economics just how little movement between socio-economic groupings there really is. The majority of people will only ever achieve what their parents have. If anything the only real trend is for a downward migration.
What's more shocking is the myopia sufferred by anyone not in the top 1% of earners when contemplating voting Tory. Yes your wallet may feel a little fatter initially, but if you can't afford the private luxuries of dave and his etonian chums, you'll suffer in the long run, and so will future generations of your family. But hey ho, he is bloody charming.
You do talk a load of balls sometimes Ernie
Thank you ........I try my best 8)
TBH I've not been following the thread - it's just that "hard work = not working class" touches my class warrior sensitivities. What with the toiling classes producing society's material wealth and all.
[b][i]"Go argue with someone who disagrees with you!"[/i][/b]
Gets boring after a while. Arguing with someone who agrees with me, somehow seems more challenging.
I never said anything like "hard work = not working class" tbh.
So he worked his balls off for 20 years and then decided to stop all this "hard work" nonsense and became middle-class ?
Cool 8)
Didn't say anything like that either 😉
why would any right minded person want to aspire to be middle class? Send your children to private school, live in a 5 bedroom detached house with a double garage, drive a totally impractible 4x4 to the private school if you must to prove how successfull/happy you are but why would you wish to be recognised as being "middle class"? You must be pretty insecure.
I don't want to get embroiled in an internet debate about class, fascinating as I really do find the subject.
I just want to say that I involuntarily shouted the C-word at George Osbourne when he came on the news this evening.
And I've never read the Morning Star in my life.
Class is much better defined by whether you own and/or control the means of production or you have nothing to sell but your labour power. Vague status-based (Weberian) definitions only serve to conceal the fact that you can just as easily be sacked and impoverished as the person who pushes the broom. I'm proudly working class, all my family have degrees and I own a detatched house with a double garage...but it's only stuff and it wouldn't gain you access to the Bullingdon Club.
Class is much better defined by whether you own and/or control the means of production or you have nothing to sell but your labour power.
Whilst your employment status is undoubtedly the most important defining characteristic of class, it is by no means the only one. Your level of education, whether you sell your intellectual skills or manual skills, your level of income, your property ownership status, all contribute the level of freedom and power (including economic power) which you enjoy. And therefore, are all defining characteristics of class.
[b][i]"I'm proudly working class"[/i][/b]
No one should be ashamed of whatever social class they find themselves in - I certainly am not (and applying the above criteria I am 100% working class) It is how we behave towards other human beings, which is the defining characteristic of what sort of person we are.
National debt is currently
£900,000,000,000
Public sector employment went from 40% of the adult working total in 1997 to 60% today.
Go figure where we need to start trimming back.
I was talking to a Customer Service Manager for a specific section of a certain Hospital not so long ago. Why does it need a CS Manager who also gets a company car?
I was born and brought up on a council estate. My dad was a miner (as I was for a while), my mam was a nurse. Now I'm a nurse, my wife's an OT. My older kids went to uni. I own my own house in a 'nice' area, I occasionally go to the theatre, even to the opera if it's something I like (no Wagner, thank you very much). However, I also still enjoy going to the rugby (league), and the occasional pint with my mates. Now, I always think of myself as working class, but realise that my current 'lifestyle' might say otherwise. Is there even such a thing as 'working class' anymore ?. Your's, confused of Barnsley.
Public sector employment went from 40% of the adult working total in 1997 to 60% today.
Where did you get that figure from?
Public sector employment went from 40% of the adult working total in 1997 to 60% today.
Do you actually believe that nonsense hora ?
And even if it was remotely true, it would just represent meaningless figures.
Because so what ? If it was 70,80,or 90 percent, what different would it make ?
You obviously apply the logic of a retard who reads the Sun, and automatically assumes that anyone employed in the pubic sector doesn't do any work. Do you think all the employees of the RBS stopped working when their bank became publicly owned ? It is the amount of people who are engaged in productive work which is important. And that applies as much to the private sector as it does to the public sector.