[Closed] If you were a Flat Earther.....

Or more realistically, surely they’ll soon be able to afford a trip with Richard Branson or Elon to see the curvature with their own eyes?

But they wouldn’t, they’d claim that what they were seeing was just something computer generated and shown on screens, not windows.
I’m not sure they’d even believe their own eyes if they went up twenty thousand feet in an open balloon basket and could see the curvature of the earth!

I'd jump off the edge.

Careful, some people reading that might start the crowdfunding! 😉

I'd go and have a look under I mean it would look awesome!

Wouldn't it just look flat?

Berners-Lee has a lot to answer for!

Wouldn't it be great though. They'd either come back and have to admit yeah, there's no edge, or they're going to come back with the most amazing footage and images!

Have you got to the bit with the laser gyro yet? That’ll tell you all you need to know about the response.

Is that documentary worth a watch? Have it on my list, but not got around to it yet. They’re quite crazy aren’t they, just refusing to accept facts

Well worth it.

Have you got to the bit with the laser gyro yet? That’ll tell you all you need to know about the response

Yeah, seen that, I've just got the last 15 mins or so to watch.

The other thing I was pondering.... If there really is a dome, how big would it actually be and would it be physically possible to construct such a structure? And who made it?

Yeah, seen that, I’ve just got the last 15 mins or so to watch.

Oh you're in for a treat.

Have you got to the bit with the laser gyro yet?

Or the "experiment" at the end with torches...

If anything, all the documentary reveals is that they're not really interested in science, they're interested in being flat eathers.

I think the guy with the lasers & torches was losing the faith...

The main fella I think had lost the faith early on but liked the attention.

Flat earth cruise...

The other thing I was pondering…. If there really is a dome, how big would it actually be and would it be physically possible to construct such a structure? And who made it?

Dyson sphere. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere

Yeh the cruise thing is properly funny.

"let's have a weird get together" No one mention how navigation works.

Dyson sphere

.

'Hypothetical' and 'thought experiment' mentioned in the first paragraph.

Lol

Dyson sphere

He can’t even make a decent vacuum cleaner. Why do you think he could have made a mahooosive dome?

😉

I gave this a lot of thought once. Just imagine if they were right and the Earth was indeed flat!
Would it change anything? Nope... As you were people of planet Earth, be it flat or round it doesn't really matter.

leeroysilk

It would just change the nature of reality, the laws of physics, everything we've learned about the universe and ourselves over the last few hundred years.

All of that really doesn't matter to you?

Takes all sorts I guess.

eat_the_pudding

Member
leeroysilk

It would just change the nature of reality, the laws of physics, everything we’ve learned about the universe and ourselves over the last few hundred years.

All of that really doesn’t matter to you?

Takes all sorts I guess.

Depends, even people who paid attention in school can be very blinkered to new ideas.

Take the idea of freak waves, there was an article in a science publication (well, a magazine, not a research journal) not so long ago that showed how freak waves could occur when two swells meet at a specific angle.

The comments were then filled with vitriolic explanations about how it was all wrong and simply constructive interference and that they'd been taught this in school, weren't these scientists paying attention?

Understanding physics/chemistry/maths/biology and understanding science are different things. I don't think the school curriculum really gets that point across. We're taught to hypothesise, design an experiment, collect results and draw conclusions. But not to go any further because you've got a class of 30 kids with the same conclusion, which isn't how science works (its just chemistry/physics/biology).

It's like the moment in a-level chemistry when you figure out that not only are electrons both wave and particle but also not orbiting in spheres, and that their orbits aren't fixed even within the orbitals. Basically throwing GCSE physics and chemistry out of the window and starting again with a new model!

GCSE history is more scientific than double science. Youre taught to evaluate sources and present an argument. Science you're just taught that everything in the book is a fact. It's no wonder some people then treat it like others treat religion.

I'd happily contribute towards a trip into space to show them they're wrong. But wont contribute to the cost of bringing them back.

If you go the edge do you just pop out on the other side like Pac-Man

I’d go and have a look under I mean it would look awesome!

Mike,it would be amazeballs.

It would just change the nature of reality, the laws of physics

You haven't grasped the meaning behind leeroysilk's post

You haven’t grasped the meaning behind leeroysilk’s post

Indeed, which was would it actually change how we in practice live our lives ?

You haven’t grasped the meaning behind leeroysilk’s post

Indeed, which was would it actually change how we in practice live our lives ?

I suppose the important thing to flat earthers is to prove there's some sort of global conspiracy and there's some sort of sinister group in control of everything. But even if that was proposed to be true, i'm pretty sure if still be going to work everyday, I'd be going for a ride when I can, I'd still be a married father of one. So there's important stuff wouldn't change!!

Maybe some went on a trip to the ice wall years ago... and they just keep going...

If you go the edge do you just pop out on the other side like Pac-Man

Only if you collect spherical glaciers at the edge.

Maybe some went on a trip to the ice wall years ago… and they just keep going…

Wait till they meet the first White Walker 😉

The problem with most big conspiracies is that they depend on high level international cooperation.
We can't even agree tariffs on underpants coming into the UK after 29th Mar. How on (flat) earth would any one coordinate a big international conspiracy?

Don't forget that they fine with every other planetary object in the inuverse being a sphere, but the Earth is special and must be flat.

A lot of it comes from the inability to comprehend that we humans are equivalent to tiny specks of insignificant dust compared to everything else in the universe, and the world/solar system does not revolve around us.

If anything, all the documentary reveals is that they’re not really interested in science, they’re interested in being flat eathers.

Yes, I don't think they actually believe the earth is flat. It's more about demonstrating they are they are iconoclastic and more intelligent than everyone else because they are prepared to question the received orthodoxy that most of us just accept. The problem is that their arguments just aren't as clever as they like to think.

weren’t these scientists paying attention?

On the flip side from what I remember reports of rogue waves were mostly dismissed for a long time since the models used showed them as extremely unlikely. It was only after an oilrig with unusually good monitoring got hit by one that the scientists started reexamining the models used.
So those people might just be remembering what they were taught as absolute fact in the past.

A while back was listening to an audiobook about prehistory. It was a few years old but generally not too bad aside from one glaring problem. The author kept saying about how new evidence may emerge and that this or that interpretation might change with one exception. On neanderthal and homo sapiens interbreeding he was clear that it had been ruled out.

I've just watched the final 15 minutes! 🤣😂

They’d either come back and have to admit yeah, there’s no edge,

And when they did they'd then be accused of being part of the conspiracy.

On telly the other night,they were promoting the MET's celebration of the Apollo 11 mission in photographs.Some great Earthrise shots that would have the flat thinkers frothing.

rob hilton, taxi25
"would it actually change how we live our lives"
It wouldn't; for a particular subset of people.

That subset includes excludes anyone who;
Likes to see the sun and moon rise and set
Appreciates the passing of the seasons
Likes to watch the stars at night
Appreciates the presence of gravity
Ever needs to navigate anywhere
and a host of other things.

I guess it could include anyone whose definition "living your life" amounts to nothing more than turning food and oxygen into fertiliser.

But if you want to live your life like a waterbuffalo, after having the good fortune to be born in an era (last few 100 years) where we've finally developed the tools and ideas to see how things really work, then please carry on 🙂

Fasthaggis, I think you'll find that the original earthrise photo was photoshopped (15 years before the invention of photoshop 🙂

You can't argue with stupid.

It wouldn’t; for a particular subset of people.

That subset includes excludes anyone who;
Likes to see the sun and moon rise and set
Appreciates the passing of the seasons
Likes to watch the stars at night
Appreciates the presence of gravity
Ever needs to navigate anywhere
and a host of other things.

Again I think the point is missed. You could do all of that but in the context of the earth being flat.

But anyway I nearly put a spoiler up about the last 15 mins of the documentary. I resisted, but it's brilliant, comedy gold 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Oh my lord....I’ve just watched the ending....(I gave up after an hour - I couldn’t bear the insanity of it all!)

🤣!

I'd be out of a job.

Flat earthers are proud to say that they have members all over the globe...

Haha!

Flat earthers are proud to say that they have members all over the globe…

As a non-flat earther, I'm proud to say I too (probably) have like minded thinking members all over the plains.

Appears some understood my original post whereas others not so. If the world was proven to be flat tomorrow, I'd probably say "wow! Those cheeky NASA rascals!" Then carry about my life as normal with the added pressure of wondering why Mark Beaumont didn't figure this out whilst on his 73 day bike ride.

On the flip side from what I remember reports of rogue waves were mostly dismissed for a long time since the models used showed them as extremely unlikely. It was only after an oilrig with unusually good monitoring got hit by one that the scientists started reexamining the models used.

I remember reading something about those ‘freak’ waves, where researchers started studying satellite photos of open ocean, and using new tools that could measure the height of waves, they discovered these waves are really quite common, and are likely responsible for the loss of many ships that disappeared without trace.

Fasthaggis, I think you’ll find that the original earthrise photo was photoshopped (15 years before the invention of photoshop

They could have sourced the photo of earth from Google Images...

they discovered these waves are really quite common

Yup. After being assumed impossible once there was clear evidence it wasnt just tall tales from those sailors who were lucky enough to survive there has been a fair amount of effort put into researching them including, as you say, specifically searching satellite photos (plus I think using some sort of satellite radar) for evidence.
Now people are busy trying to come up with the theory of why they happen and, more importantly, if they can predict them with any degree of accuracy and forewarning.

taxi25

Again I think the point is missed. You could do all of that but in the context of the earth being flat.

You are missing the point. You couldn't.
All of the things I listed are things that would look noticeably different on a flat earth.

A nearby sun and moon that circle above a flat earth would never set (probably never go below tens of degrees above the horizon) and would also visibly vary in size through the day (also it would never get dark, but lets leave that aside for the moment).
The seasons rely on the tilt of the earth towards the sun and at the extremes some parts of it being in shade from the sun months at a time, again impossible under a flat earth model.
The stars (on a "firmament" dome) could not rotate in the same way except for certain cases in the northern hemisphere. The rotation of the stars around southern pole of the earth would be impossible.
If gravity existed on a flat earth you could walk around the edge horizontally (perpendicular to someone standing in the centre). It is incompatible with gravity and therefore they claim it doesn't exist. You would notice its absence.
Navigation should go without saying, especially if you want to fly from e.g. australia to africa.

You might be so used to seeing the world as it is that you can't see that the way things look and behave is largely because of the actual shape of the earth.

Put simply, my argument is that if things were different they would look different.

You may not have the imagination to see that, but try not to tar everyone else with the same brush.

Yeah, the reaction when they can't see the torch until the guy at the far end raises it (thus proving its not a straight line) is great.

Like me when the other half finds the one thing to totally destroy my argument!

would it actually change how we live our lives

It would mean we know absolutely nothing about gravity or our planet. But given that loads of stuff based on that knowledge still works, we'd be in a whole heap of trouble.

On the flip side from what I remember reports of rogue waves were mostly dismissed for a long time since the models used showed them as extremely unlikely.

Scientists would have said that they were improbable. But when they were recorded, and subsequently found via satellite technology, scientists have changed their minds. In other words, there was no evidence before, and now there is. However there is already a TON of evidence of the Earth being round and none of it being flat. Except for the fact that it looks flat if you don't look closely.

And when they did they’d then be accused of being part of the conspiracy.

... and then no-one else would volunteer to try it as their converted bretheren has clearly just been kidnapped and taken to a secret round-Earth brainwashing facility.

The more I read about this lot, the more I think it's just a massive elaborate troll and they're all laughing their arses off at everyone else taking them seriously enough to waste time trying to debunk them. Actual true believers might exist but are perhaps a small minority. I could be wrong though, if I've learned one thing in the almost half a century I've been alive it's never to underestimate how creatively stupid some people can be.

i liked the 'i can see Seattle' bit.

apparently he lives in whidbey island. which is ~40km from the centre of Seattle. assuming he was 1.8m tall and standing at sea level, he should still be able to see anything greater than 97m tall.

funnily enough, wikipedia lists 40 buildings over 120m tall in downtown seattle.

but I guess he knew that already...

would it actually change how we live our lives

All the satellites would suddenly realise they can't stay up in space anymore and come crashing down. All at once! Imagine. Bloody scary thought.

never to underestimate how creatively stupid some people can be.

I don't think these folk are stupid, I think many of them are really quite bright. Lots of them though, are really keen on being in on  a "special" thing. and nearly all of them have confused how actual science works. Like a lot of folk, they have a set of assumptions and look for evidence to prove them rather than gather the evidence and  look where it takes you.

Sorry if this is a duplicate, I can't see it linked in the thread.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2019/03/16/flat-earth-supporters-now-plan-an-antarctica-expedition-to-the-edge-of-the-world

Good documentary, this thread gave me the urge to watch it. I think its people who need to be part of a group or movement. One or two of them appeared to be unhinged.
They appeared to be conspiracy theorists, but at the same time also unable to acknowledge science. Its great that they challenged the science, but when shown irrefutable evidence - they failed to acknowledge it and looked at finding a reason to show why the science may have been flawed.
The guy doing the light experiment did seem to have a eureka moment, would have been good to have heard his thoughts after the experiment completed.

why do they need to go to "Antarctica" to find the edge of the world ? surely finding the edge of the world a warmer latitudes if far more preferable 😕 Or finding Antarctica sailing due east or due west (depending on the current "in vogue" flat earther map) from Hawaii would be proof enough !

I loved the documentary.
I liked the fact it was clear these people aren't 'thick' per se.. they are just SOOOO keen to 'disprove the norm' that if it's not flat-earth, it's alien abductions, or anti-vaxx...

Some people simply want to disbelieve the trusted and proven norm.

But...the end...
"oh"...!!!

DrP

Well, on a flat earther's map "South" means towards the edge and "North" means towards the centre. East or West would just send you in anticlockwise/clockwise circles (or widdershins/turnwise if you prefer) 🙂
(in reply to Klunk)

I've thought for a while that its basically an elaborate troll by about 90% of believers. But there is undoubtedly a solid core of true believers who generate all this content and keep the whole thing going aided by the internet...

Well that's Singletrack explained, what about Flat Earthers?

Well, on a flat earther’s map “South” means towards the edge and “North” means towards the centre. East or West would just send you in anticlockwise/clockwise circles (or widdershins/turnwise if you prefer)

You mean like this?

sneaky...I see what you did there. 🙂

Follow up question...How does Lat and Long actually work on a FE model? We need Grahams he spent loads of time with them.

Follow up question…How does Lat and Long actually work on a FE model?

It doesn't and they don't have any answers for it. The obvious problem with distances in the Southern Hemisphere being much larger on the disc-world model and how this would translate to real world things like airline schedules are explained away as part of the conspiracy.

We need Grahams he spent loads of time with them.

Hallo!

Sorry I somehow missed a thread about my favourite hobby topic. 🙂

Yeah the "Behind The Curve" doc has put the flat earth world in a bit of a spin (ironically).

Bob Knodel (aka Bob Noodledoodle, aka the laser gyro guy) has been ostracised by some of them, with several prominent flat earthers having screaming rows with him on public hangouts. He is a board member of FECore, a key member of Globebusters, and a speaker at FEIC, but the other Flerfers are still ready to decide he is a shill rather than confront the evidence.

Others are making up all kinds of new physics to try to explain what he saw (some going for the gyro detecting the aether moving, despite the fact that Flerfers often point to the Michelson-Morley experiment which demonstrated that if aether exists then it is stationary relative to Earth).

Jeran of Jeranism (aka the torches guy) was largely excused because he claims to have repeated that experiment with different results. I've spoken to one of the globe earth guys who was there when the experiment was conducted (and can be heard in the documentary) and he said it went down pretty much as filmed and that Jeran never got the result he wanted.

His Patreon is still pulling in around $1500 of donations a month so I guess he is still in favour.

You mean like this?

This is the one you want: https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:7h149v85z

Some flat earthers still believe this is an accurate map of the world despite the fairly obvious problem it has matching reality (Australia not actually being twice the size of America is a good start!)

Others have given up on that map. They've realised that having a map or model makes them too easy to debunk - so now they say: "We don't have a map or model. We don't know what shape the world is. But we know it's not round."

Here is a lovely example. Nathan Oakley is a prominent UK-based flat earther. Here is a short extract from one of his live streams on his channel:

(don't worry this is a mirror by a glober so you can safely watch it without worrying that you are contributing to Nathan's viewing figures!)

Here is a transcript of his little rant about Bob Knodel:

"This only bothers me because, in reality, I have got to make a living. And Bob's decided to take a dump on that amongst his ad hominems, because he thinks I'm a grocery delivery boy, which I haven't done for about two years. I am a YouTuber and depend on this now to make my living. But Bob, who's about to piss off, leave you all in the dirt apparently, because this is a sinking ship according to Bob Knodel, because you won't dicktake what he dicktakes is reality, then fine: Take a crap on my income!"

And the funny thing is, these same people claim NASA just does this for the money!

Well, on a flat earther’s map “South” means towards the edge

there would be places like the falkland islands, tasmania, cape town where south would have over 180 degree range on a flat earth if that were the case ! 🙂
actually south is all directions all over the earth ! even north 😀

Nah South is just the opposite of North on the flat earth map (at least the AE/Gleason one I linked to).

That in itself is not unreasonable - but it falls apart when you ask them to explain why people in the Southern Hemisphere can look Due South and see the South Celestial Pole despite the fact they are all looking in different directions.

Nathan's quite cross, isn't he...

Sorry if this is a duplicate, I can’t see it linked in the thread.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2019/03/16/flat-earth-supporters-now-plan-an-antarctica-expedition-to-the-edge-of-the-world
/blockquote>

I hope they crack on soon and make it clear what happened. I suspect "those in charge" might end up manipulating the explorers compasses so they just end up walking round in circles and never make it to the edge!

 

Compasses get increasingly useless as you approach the magnetic pole as the field lines become more and more vertical.

So I suspect they’d use that as some kind of “evidence”.

manipulating the explorers compasses so they just end up walking round in circles and never make it to the edge!

No need, the immense relative speed of objects at the edge of the disc renders compasses usless as the needle will succumb to its path inertia rather than its magnetic attraction. Unfortunately without knowing how close to the edge of the disc you are you can't calculate your speed so you can't possibly account for the deflection either.

But realistically they won’t go. There are already tourist trips available to Antarctica and the South Pole which they refuse to go on since Antarctica doesn’t exist.

I just want to take the flat earth rider for a spin. It's a pretty sad watch really. A lot of these people are clearly pretty smart, but would appear to be emotionally damaged in some way. Being part of something, anything really, makes them feel needed. The 12 year old kid at the conference and the letter sent from proud parents were where it gets a bit concerning.

Ars Technica has an article about Flat Earthers that’s worth a read through...

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/03/squishful-thinking-whats-inflated-flat-earth-believers-in-2019/

Watched this over the weekend, some absolute belters in there.

One thing I was wondering about when I saw the flat earth model - the sun and moon are travelling around a fixed axis which is normal to the plane of the earth.

[img] [/img]

What is the explanation for the sun/moon dipping below the horizon irl/it not constantly being daylight in the flat earth world? I'm sure there is one, but it's bound to be hilarious so if someone could, err, enlighten me that would be grand 🙂

Thanks for the link CZ, I live not far from the Bedford Levels, never knew about that experiment.

@kenneththecurtain: flerfers usually cite perspective: high things get closer to the ground the further away they get, so naturally in flatardia the sun gets far enough away that it meets the ground and appears to sink below it!

The fact that the sun demonstrably doesn't get any smaller doing this is apparently irrelevant.

They sometimes throw in some nonsense about "angle of attack", angular resolution and diffraction. A few others talk about it being due to atmospheric scattering, limits of human vision, or just the photons running out of energy and drooping (yes.. I know!).

(Note: the FE variant of perspective is commonly referred to as "flerspective" as it apparently has all kinds of additional semi-magical properties beyond the normal rules of perspective. Naturally no one seems able to formalise these additional properties for some reason).

I work with a flat earther. His explanations for everything that debunks his "theories" normally reverts to NASA shills, conspiracy theories, and everyone believing in centuries of compounded lies.

There is some truth in that he wants to be in a select club of the enlightened ones. He has seen the truth, he can prove his beliefs, often with YouTube videos, and that we (nonbelievers) are just mindless sheep. All of this is fairly recent in his long line of believing anything but the status quo.

When I first met him he loved anything and everything about space travel and exploration. This then became an interest in aliens, conspiracy theories, dark web, shadow governments, the illuminati. The switch came when the false moon landings was, in his words, a light bulb moment, an awakening, the veil of lies were lifted. He realised that he'd been lied to his whole life.

He's now gone so far down the rabbit hole. He sees false science in everything, lies to keep the sheeple in their pens. It's highly amusing listening to his explanations of science but at the same time it's worrying that a very bright man can convince himself of flat earther science. I do hope he has another light bulb moment and backs his way out of the rabbit hole.