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I’d text it to someone else or 999. If low battery the last thing I’d do is call.
If you want to speed things up and help the process along, the one thing you can do that you probably don’t realise will make a big difference (but does) is to make sure when you call 999 / 112 make sure you ask for Police / Mountain Rescue rather than asking for Ambulance.
I'd debate that if you have a casualty in serious condition (could die fairly soon) which you are certain of location and it's accessible then ambulance gets the air ambulance in the air quicker. Which gets a well equipped trauma team to you faster. Obviously only really works where there is an air ambulance service, not to be wasted on non life-threatening injuries. So in lakes/ remote Scotland I'd go police/MRT.
Yes it's based on being in a real incident. The guy survived, still has his leg, and a family still has a dad. The air ambulance was scrambling before I had finished phonetically spelling the W3W after giving grid.
The voicemail idea is pretty poor way to spend your last bit of battery and phone signal.
How you transmit that information to a third party is totally irrelevant.
But... it's not. What you send depends on what methods you have available to send it with.
Rather than dialling 999 from your mobile, dialling 112 is better (from a mobile)
Where do they get this shit from?
112 and 999 are functionally identical. The only reason 112 exists in the UK is for the benefit of European travellers who may be more familiar with that number than ours. The notion that there's a "secret" emergency number that's better than 999 is flat-Earth levels of bollocks.
No, the whole point of W3W is a location device.
No, the whole point of W3W is to make money for its creators.
What you send depends on what methods you have available to send it with.
What methods do you have other than "a phone"?
As an aside if you're in Shetland (probably Orkney too) and away from the roadside ask for Coast Guard if you're unlucky enough to need them. They deal with everything a standard ambulance can't get to.
And get registered with Emergency SMS service on your phone.
Alright, random example.
PhoneFind. Mature technology. Widely supported by emergency services. Works off mobile triangulation. Emergency services send you an SMS, you click the link, they know where you are. Requires healthy phone reception, that's it.
SARLOC. Mature technology. Widely supported by emergency services. Works off GPS. Can be SMS-triggered as above but requires Internet access. Can be used without a data connection if you have the app installed.
W3W. Technology in its infancy. Considered by most emergency services to be not fit for purpose. Requires phone signal, GPS, Internet connection, the app to be installed, W3W's servers to be operational, the recipient to pay for API access, manual communication, and the caller to be conversant in the local language because the system's entire schema changes between languages.
What methods do you have other than “a phone”?
If you have data, and charge, then you might send some kind of live tracking link. That way if you need to move for safety/shelter, people have better odds of finding you.
If you're in a really patchy signal area, you might only be able to get an sms out.
Although, if you're sending any kind of text message, it really doesn't matter what kind of coordinates you send. Personally I'd go for OS grid if I wanted mountain rescue - I figure they'll be using OS maps to find me. Perhaps lat/long otherwise, as you can put it into pretty much anything.
If you're trying to talk over a patchy voice connection, I might consider w3w.
But yeah, the point really was that extolling w3w because you could click a button to send your location via a text messaging thing was weird - you can do the same with any other coordinate system.
you might as well shout at the wind as leave me a voicemail.
I think you misunderstood the instructions and premise of the OP. The “advice” is to change your own voicemail message from “this is poly, leave a message after the beep” to: “this is poly, I’m running late but at 4pm I’ve reached the summit of Ben Nevis, and aiming to return via the tourist path, my battery is low and if you still can’t get hold of me after 7 you may want to call for help”. For those of us on bikes, it may be saying “I’ve had a mechanical so walking out and will be much longer”.
I don’t think it’s a genius piece of advice as anyone who has the wherewithall to change their voicemail message probably has a contact they could specifically message (or indeed left details with before they went). If you don’t have that person then you probably don’t have anyone that will either try calling or report you overdue so the police trying calling you!
The only reason 112 exists in the UK is for the benefit of European travellers who may be more familiar with that number than ours.
Telling people about its existence also has the advantage of getting UK travellers used to the European number.
The advice to change your voicemail message also relies on the caller a) not terminating the call as soon as voicemail picks up and b) actually listening properly to the message.
Can just imagine a concerned person checking up and cutting it off as soon as vociemail picks up saying "ooh, he's still not picking up, I hope he's OK!"
yep I do this 😂 can’t remember the last time I left a voicemail or even listened to the message. I just ring off immediately and shoot them an iMessage/WhatsApp because then you actually know when they’ve got it.The advice to change your voicemail message also relies on the caller a) not terminating the call as soon as voicemail
yep I do this 😂 can’t remember the last time I left a voicemail or even listened to the message. I just ring off immediately and shoot them an iMessage/WhatsApp because then you actually know when they’ve got it.
exactly my thought process hence why leaving me a voicemail is as good as shouting at the wind.
now extrapolate that through anyone younger than my self - and it seems quite a number of those older than me .... and you are left with the telemarketer automated calls, the ghostbusters and the 5 people who use voicemail coming to your rescue.
the theorys good but its about 20 years late.
Carry a small power bank around 120g. And most importantly have your phone in a waterproof bag. He says after destroying a phone in a wet day's hillwalking last Saturday.
after destroying a phone in a wet day’s hillwalking last Saturday.
What phone? Many are waterproof these days - a fact I have relied upon for the last two years
Just wondering if yours has failed to live up to its advertised IP rating?
I’d debate that if you have a casualty in serious condition (could die fairly soon) which you are certain of location and it’s accessible then ambulance gets the air ambulance in the air quicker. Which gets a well equipped trauma team to you faster. Obviously only really works where there is an air ambulance service, not to be wasted on non life-threatening injuries. So in lakes/ remote Scotland I’d go police/MRT.
Sometimes that might bring you an advantage but not always. An air ambulance needs to land, in areas with active MRTs that is often not trivial for a helo. The crew need to get the casualty from where they are into the back of the helo - which will be at least a short distance away, and likely over awkward ground. It’s not uncommon for the MRT to turn up on foot to help package and transport the casualty the 100m to the spot the pilot was happy with. Air ambulances have other limitations (like being on another job, being on the way back from another job and needing to refuel, weather conditions they can’t fly in, some don’t work at night, etc). And there’s a natural tendency by the ambulance service to try to deal with a call themselves first. So if either the call handler doesn’t appreciate a helo is needed or it’s not available you are likely to get a land crew of two people deployed in the first instance to work out what’s needed… the police mostly know they can’t deal with this shit themselves so will look to get help early.
PhoneFind. Mature technology. Widely supported by emergency services. Works off mobile triangulation. Emergency services send you an SMS, you click the link, they know where you are. Requires healthy phone reception, that’s it.
Not quite accurate. PhoneFind uses the phones GPS, not triangulation. It is the same at SARLOC.
exactly my thought process hence why leaving me a voicemail is as good as shouting at the wind.
now extrapolate that through anyone younger than my self – and it seems quite a number of those older than me …. and you are left with the telemarketer automated calls, the ghostbusters and the 5 people who use voicemail coming to your rescue.
the theorys good but its about 20 years late.
Our search managers are all over mid 50's at least (generally team members who have done their 20 years out searching for folk in all weathers, and have fantastic experience to use as SM), will attempt to call a missper, and will leave a voice message on the off chance that the person has powered their phone down - which has been done in rescue situations (mentioned quite a few times in Cairngorm John - missper has little power left on phone, and is told to power phone up at certain time intervals).
I'm not saying that it's any kind of standard to pin hopes on, but it's not entirely unfeasable to say it wouldn't ever work.
What phone? Many are waterproof these days – a fact I have relied upon for the last two years
Just wondering if yours has failed to live up to its advertised IP rating?
I've killed 2 phones this way, a 6 year old samsung that basically lost it's waterprrofing over time, and a year old motorola that wasn't advertised as IP68, hey ho in both situations.
W3W. Technology in its infancy. Considered by most emergency services to be not fit for purpose. Requires phone signal, GPS, Internet connection, the app to be installed, W3W’s servers to be operational, the recipient to pay for API access, manual communication, and the caller to be conversant in the local language because the system’s entire schema changes between languages.
I’m not here to defend W3W but some of what you said is misinformation.
Whilst some emergency services have raised valid concerns about W3W errors it’s misleading to say “most emergency services think it’s not fit for purpose”
It does require gps - as does sarloc, but there can’t be many places where you can get cell phone signal and not at least get partial gps coverage? There’s a bias in the tone of how you wrote the this need for sarloc and W3W.
However if you have it preinstalled you don’t need an internet connection. The recipient will need W3W servers to be live to interpret it - but do sarloc not have any servers that might go down? The recipient does not need api access just a browser with an internet connection. In contrast for someone to initiate the sarloc request they need to be set up in advance.
The main risk with languages is misspelling/mispronunciation- I believe l you can send foreign words and it works for the recipient? The risk of miscommunication with foreign language / accents doesn’t go away with OSGB or Lat/Lon when spoken.
I assume phone find is only really helpful if you are in range of at least 2 masts? Given often I’m not in range of 1 that seems likely to be a weakness?
If you’re in a really patchy signal area, you might only be able to get an sms out.
...
If you’re trying to talk over a patchy voice connection, I might consider w3w.
That being the case, W3W wouldn't work as it requires access to their servers.
Not quite accurate. PhoneFind uses the phones GPS, not triangulation. It is the same at SARLOC.
Does it? I sit corrected if so. Does it use both, maybe? I was sure it worked off cell masts.
I’m not here to defend W3W but some of what you said is misinformation.
I may well be wrong but I'm not intentionally misleading.
That being the case, W3W wouldn’t work as it requires access to their servers.
Yes, sure - that wasn't my point though. My point was that the transmission mechanism was entirely relevant to the format in which you send your location. Claiming otherwise is silly.
What phone? Many are waterproof these days – a fact I have relied upon for the last two years
Just wondering if yours has failed to live up to its advertised IP rating?
Samsung Galaxy A8. IP68 rated.
IP68 is wateerproof for 30 minutes. It was it the top pocket of my rucsac for about 3 hours in driving rain.
On the plus side it was 3 years old. Survived numerous other hillwalking trips and cycling outings with light rain.
Cost about £250 so not a disaster after 3 years use. But waterproof ziplock type case.
Does it? I sit corrected if so. Does it use both, maybe? I was sure it worked off cell masts.
Yep, Phonefind sends a GPS generated 8 fig grid reference with accuracy comment in format of +/- ?m's.
That being the case, W3W wouldn’t work as it requires access to their servers.
Again - not to defend/promote any service but this is more misinformation. W3W uses an algorithm to calculate the words. No internet service / server access required as it's all done in your phone.
That being the case, W3W wouldn’t work as it requires access to their servers.
No that's actually the advantage of any preinstalled solution over Sarlock etc - the latter requires you to have good enough signal to receive a text message, click on a link and then open a webpage, and have credit for the data connection. If already installed W3W allows you (with no data connection) to open the app and send a text message (or read the words) from the screen. Other solutions allow you to do much the same with OSGrid or Lat/Lon etc, they are marketed less successfully (aggressively) and may not be quite as nice to use, and may suffer from similar transcription errors if you read enough digits for the same precision. However with W3W the recipient does need an internet connection to convert to a real world position - in most cases that will not be a problem as they'll be sitting in a building somewhere with an internet connection.
To me the advantage of W3W is not actually for calling the emergency services. Its for me calling/texting my wife (or my kids calling me) and being able to say - I'm at xxx.yyy.zzz I've tacho'd my wheel and carrying my bike out can you meet me at aaa.bbb.ccc and give me a lift?
To me the advantage of W3W is not actually for calling the emergency services. Its for me calling/texting my wife (or my kids calling me) and being able to say – I’m at xxx.yyy.zzz I’ve tacho’d my wheel and carrying my bike out can you meet me at aaa.bbb.ccc and give me a lift?
I just use google maps pins, so they can just click it and go "navigate to".
chauvinism
secede
veterinarian
pseudonym
paraphernalia
clairvoyant
ratatouille
adjournment
hierarchy
acquiesce
tithe
etiquette
parochial
idiosyncrasy
prerogative
fuchsia
macaque
baccalaureate
How many would you get in a spelling test? All of these are in the w3w dictionary
I'd probably just hit "send location" in what's app these days
Sometimes that might bring you an advantage but not always. An air ambulance needs to land, in areas with active MRTs that is often not trivial for a helo
I agree, it's a fine call and either way getting a call in to one of the services matters to get help moving.
In my case the MRT took 30 mins longer than the air ambulance to get to the casualty the air ambulance had more gear to stabilise and a trauma surgeon. They also made the call to mobilise coastguard helo support within a few minutes of arrival, again saving time. That said it's one set of particular circumstances, the guy who fell was very lucky. He has years of pain and rehab to come but is beating the doctors expectations at every stage.
I’d probably just hit “send location” in what’s app these days
You've just added the green pill, on top of the blue or red choice...
Matt
One pill makes you larger
And one pill makes you small
And the ones that mother gives you
Don't do anything at all?
I’d probably just hit “send location” in what’s app these days
We (family) routinely use live track in WhatsApp when travelling to each others homes, arranging to meet etc.
My Mum in particular used to be a nightmare for calling or texting as I or or my sister were driving to hers and then she'd get worried when we didn't reply for ages cos y'know, texting / calling while driving... 🙄
On the rare occasions I bothered to answer while handsfree, she'd then waste 20 seconds telling me that I shouldn't be talking while driving. Honestly, it was comical while also being incredibly frustrating.
Now it's just a case of hitting live track and having done with it.
In my case the MRT took 30 mins longer than the air ambulance to get to the casualty the air ambulance had more gear to stabilise and a trauma surgeon. They also made the call to mobilise coastguard helo support within a few minutes of arrival, again saving time. That said it’s one set of particular circumstances, the guy who fell was very lucky. He has years of pain and rehab to come but is beating the doctors expectations at every stage.
Sounds like luck more than good choices. Mean while in a residential area of Glasgow 2 weeks ago my uncle had a heart attack and the 999call handler told them it was 45 minutes before any one would be with them......cue a neighbour going hell for leather in their car. - he was also saved by a lucky call.
"I'd rather be lucky than good"
I’d probably just hit “send location” in what’s app these days
Yep I just dont get w3w….
IPhones ring and send your gps location to the emergency service if you hold the right button.
I’ve got a little Garmin sat txt thing if I’m off where there’s no signal.
Also worth reiterating that whole telling people when your off-arsing around and figuring your worst case time that if you not phoned home they should be thinking of firing up the chopper.
Stuff goes south really quick, a few goodies like a space blanket are inexpensive and worthwhile.
yes, but does it dial 999 or 112? 🤔IPhones ring and send your gps location to the emergency service if you hold the right button.
Also, being pedantic, that link says it texts your location to your emergency [i]contacts[/i] (if they’re programmed in), not the emergency services.
In my case the MRT took 30 mins longer than the air ambulance to get to the casualty the air ambulance had more gear to stabilise and a trauma surgeon. They also made the call to mobilise coastguard helo support within a few minutes of arrival, again saving time. That said it’s one set of particular circumstances, the guy who fell was very lucky.
big_n_daft - every situation is different, but before anyone assumes this is a better plan:
- Not every air ambulance carries a doctor.
- You will have lost some minutes on the MRT arrival by not calling them first, probably not 30, but probably more than you think, especially if they knew they wouldn't be first on scene.
- Some MRTs do have a doctor (although probably not a "trauma surgeon" likely to have been patching people up on mountains for years, and many of the ordinary team will have trained for and seen more real-life trauma than a newly qualified ambulance crew
- If the police or the MRT leader think a helo will help, they have the ability to request the CG helo before arriving on scene, and its likely the MRT know the area and can make that sort of call just from looking at the map.
Now there are definitely circumstances where an air ambulance (or even a land ambulance) will be quicker. Not least because there are bits of the country where there are no MRTs nearby BUT I'm pretty sure that calling Police to get MRT is still not a bad plan there because they can still ask the ambulance service for help or locally to me (nearest MRT is about 30 miles away) will ask fire service to help with access/carry issues [but wouldn't ask them to be the first response for a search].
Just over a year ago I had a proper accident riding solo. My phone has an emergency feature. If you press the power button 5 times it sends and SOS with location to an emergency contact.
I've used it in anger and it works. Mine goes through to my wife so she phoned me - "I don't know where I am, I've crashed, I've just woken up and I'm bleeding" - she wasn't amused, but did manage to find me as I was being loaded into an ambulance.
Voicemails…
yes, but does it dial 999 or 112? 🤔
You enter the necessary number/service when setting up the Emergency SOS app/function.
Also, being pedantic, that link says it texts your location to your emergency contacts (if they’re programmed in), not the emergency services.
I’ll be even more pedantic and point out that the link mot only refers to ‘emergency contacts’ but it also has the option to contact emergency services via the ‘Emergency SOS’ function. 😉
I don't think so... it may be optional (but I can't find any setting anywhere) but you definitely don't have to set it up, it works right out of the box. I know this because my mum triggered it accidentally and didn't have a clue what was going on, and had definitely not set it up beforehand!! 🤣You enter the necessary number/service when setting up the Emergency SOS app/function.
to out-pedant you, no, it is not optional, contacting the emergency services is literally what the Emergency SOS function does! 😃I’ll be even more pedantic and point out that the link mot only refers to ‘emergency contacts’ but it also has the option to contact emergency services via the ‘Emergency SOS’ function.
For Android, search SOS in settings to turn on the feature. It's activated by pressing the power button 5 times. It can be configured to dial the emergency services (I've set mine to 112 to cover the unlikely event of ever leaving the country 🙂 ) and text emergency contacts.
I thought that it wasn't lawful to have the emergency services on any sort of auto-dial? I'm learning quite a lot from this discussion.
Again – not to defend/promote any service but this is more misinformation. W3W uses an algorithm to calculate the words. No internet service / server access required as it’s all done in your phone.
That being the case (and I'm not arguing, I don't actually know), why do they sell API access? Why do they need their servers at all? If you can programmatically calculate words from a location, can you not also programmatically calculate a location from words? Is there some sort of one-way conversion going on, like multiplying primes?
... and why would they do that?
Anything useful in this thread other than the initial reply about SMS to 999 (I'm registered) and the usefulness of OS Locate as a handy companion app to readily spew out the SMS content? I expected it'd degenerate into a W3W argument and I can't be ///arsed.with.that. Thanks!