[Closed] If Scotland vote no...

StefMcDef - Member

Shooting people! Because they wear a particular football shirt! Ha-ha!

I'd be up for shooting Rangers fans too tbh. Or Hearts, Granton Star, Whitecaps, I'm an equal opportunities murderer.

Some absolutely cutting-edge humour in this thread, guys. Give yourselves a pat on the back.

I think this is what is technically known as "banter".

"banter"

*shudders*

peterfile - Member
Genuine question but if they get independence then are there likely to be any immigration controls between people moving north or south?
No

Is that strictly true?

If Scotland gets Independence and doesn't join the EU (likely as Spain will block it) surely as a country outside of the EU, its citizens will be subject to the same visa games that everyone else has to be play?

lots of if's and but's but surely its not a definite 'No' everything will be like it was except we won't have to pay any tax to the UK and listen to the pillocks in Westminster.

StefMcDef - Member

How did it work out for Scotland the last time it failed to grasp the opportunity for a greater measure of self-determination, at a time when an unelectable Labour opposition gave the Tories a free hand to do what they liked?

The failure of the 79 devolution plebiscite (on the turnout clause) led the SNP to withdraw their support for the Callaghan government - actually a no confidence motion was made - followed up immediately by a no confidence motion from Margaret T. It was the event that brought down the labour government and started Thatcher's rise to power.

If Scotland gets Independence and doesn't join the EU (likely as Spain will block it) surely as a country outside of the EU, its citizens will be subject to the same visa games that everyone else has to be play?

Scotland and rUK could negotiate what ever deal they wanted, but border controls seem unlikely.
As for the first point about Scotland not getting into the EU, it's been done to death as well. Its easy to assume that Spain would block an entry but there's no concrete evidence of that being likely, and in fact the government have actually said they have no problem with whats happening in SCotland.

richc - Member

(likely as Spain will block it)

So they mutter but it'd by no means a given- another case of "what we'll do in advance vs what we'll do when faced with practicality" methinks, since they have the largest fishing industry in the EU and are heavily dependant on the north sea fishing. It'd be a massive hit in the wallet and they'd be weighing up the propaganda-only effect on separatism at home, against the very real gdp and employment hit.

I don't know a lot about Schengen but I do know you can be in it, without being in the EU.

peterfile - Member
Genuine question but if they get independence then are there likely to be any immigration controls between people moving north or south?
No

well I might well be ticking the (non-existent) "Devo Max" on the ballot paper. yes I know that's a spoilt vote but TBH my preferences lie with neither available option, and at least I'd be voting...

[quote=bencooper]Before the '97 referendum, various Scottish-based financial institutions - including Standard Life - said that they might have to leave after devolution.

Debunked by ernie on the last thread http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/46#post-5810661 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/apr/24/past.electionspast1 - presumably you were only reading the posts which agreed with your preconceptions on that thread?

So what is the benefit other than having more control over their spending?

Other than not being governed by Westminster?

jesus how many more months of this pish do we have to go still?

[img] [/img]

Hooli Scotland would get control of it's own social policies we could bin the bedroom tax, and we would get
rid of the wmd. For some people the economic argument is the key to their supporting yes for others it's a chance to try to build a better fairer and more equal country .

[quote=peterfile]No

Your vote has been counted 😉

jesus how many more months of this pish do we have to go still?

I know that a small country's independence is probably small fry to the types of things you have to contemplate every day, but for some of us, it's a fairly big deal.

Your vote has been counted

😆

I live here too you know. It would be a big deal if it was going to happen, as I would probably have to find a new job, but I don't think it will.

Regardless of the result though bigjim, do you not think it poses some fairly significant questions that are at least worth thinking about? I was the same (although, to be fair I was living in England when this first kicked off), but regardless of whether I vote yes or no, it's been the biggest wake up call for me in terms of what the hell is going on in UK/Scotland. I bumbled about my own life without giving some things too much attention...this was at the very least an opportunity to look properly at the things that affect my daily life.

Scotland and rUK could negotiate what ever deal they wanted, but border controls seem unlikely.

That's true; but CMD isn't going to be happy that his legacy is going to be the break up of the union so he may pause ****ing up the rest of the country to hurt the Scottish.

So they mutter but it'd by no means a given- another case of "what we'll do in advance vs what we'll do when faced with practicality" methinks, since they have the largest fishing industry in the EU and are heavily dependant on the north sea fishing. It'd be a massive hit in the wallet and they'd be weighing up the propaganda-only effect on separatism at home, against the very real gdp and employment hit.
So they mutter but it'd by no means a given- another case of "what we'll do in advance vs what we'll do when faced with practicality" methinks, since they have the largest fishing industry in the EU and are heavily dependant on the north sea fishing. It'd be a massive hit in the wallet and they'd be weighing up the propaganda-only effect on separatism at home, against the very real gdp and employment hit.

Also true, but the likelyhood of Scotland being in the EU in 18 months is pretty much zero according to anyone with any knowledge or background. If they take standard terms 2 years is possible, if they want the same terms as the UK then that's going to take decades.

So we would still have a few years of Scotland in limbo.

Personally I don't care as long as they get on with it, my only regret is the rest of the UK will be stuck with these ****tards for a long long time. That and a lot of friend's lives will be massively disrupted when they have to leave Scotland due to their industries moving.

For some people the economic argument is the key to their supporting yes for others it's a chance to try to build a better fairer and more equal country .

p.s. Braveheart was shit (unless watched whilst pished) and our fishy duo are ****s, but what major politician isn't? On the **** scale they're good few kilos lighter than Cameron/Clegg But it is still a big huge fat massive Yes from me.

what's wrong with ****s?

I didn't think ****s was swearing!

Don't worry, you get used to it. Mild racism is OK, but a wee bit of ****ing swearing and they get upset 🙂

aracer - Member

bencooper » Before the '97 referendum, various Scottish-based financial institutions - including Standard Life - said that they might have to leave after devolution.

Debunked by ernie on the last thread http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/46#post-5810661 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/1997/apr/24/past.electionspast1 - presumably you were only reading the posts which agreed with your preconceptions on that thread?

It was debunked by Ernie but then I saw a newspaper clipping on Twitter this morning that convincingly debunked the debunk. By the time it came round to 1997 they had come round to the idea but prior to that the cabal of former Thatcher aides in charge of Standard Life had abused their position by spending the 90s railing against the horrors of "Home Rule". I'm afraid I can't be any more specific than that. 😥 The truth is out there.

If it's a NO in September I'll be gutted.

To get over it I'll probably just go for a cycle wherever I want due to our world-beating access laws whilst breathing some clean fresh air thanks to our world-leading environmental obligations. Once I get home I'll take a quick shower then relax with a world-class whisky and an awesome beer, brewed just doon the road.

No sour grapes tho, eh?

dufresneorama - Member

If it's a NO in September I'll be gutted.

To get over it I'll probably just go for a cycle wherever I want due to our world-beating access laws whilst breathing some clean fresh air thanks to our world-leading environmental obligations. Once I get home I'll take a quick shower then relax with a world-class whisky and an awesome beer, brewed just doon the road.

No sour grapes tho, eh?

Yeah, how about washing down the whisky with some of your world-class modesty as well eh? 😉

Scotland has many wonderful things to enjoy and be proud of, but "awesome" beer is stretching credibility even by wee eck's "elastic" standards.

How do the Welsh feel about all this?

Been awhile since I've seen Braveheart.

Might give that a watch next week.

Scotland has many wonderful things to enjoy and be proud of, but "awesome" beer is stretching credibility even by wee eck's "elastic" standards.

This is actually total bllx.

Sure, there is some main stream tripe. But there's stacks of quality small scale breweries up here. Up yours Bawbag.

How do the Welsh feel about all this?

Well, in the traditional UK context of them vs us i.e. rich Tory southerners vs the working classes, the Scots are an ally. I'd be sad to see them leave partly because it'll change the political landscape, for the worse as far as I am concerned. Plus it's always a shame to see people leave rather than work out their differences.

I'd support devo max.

DP

"Some" main stream tripe???? - "this Spesh is pesh" rings out far more than "hmm, nice pint this."

The odd pint of 90bob might make the "quite nice" though, granted! 😉

molgrips - Member

How do the Welsh feel about all this?

Well, in the traditional UK context of them vs us i.e. rich Tory southerners vs the working classes, the Scots are an ally. I'd be sad to see them leave partly because it'll change the political landscape, for the worse as far as I am concerned. Plus it's always a shame to see people leave rather than work out their differences.

I'd support devo max.

If Scotland got devo max, would Wales push for devo max boyce?

Sour grapes ....I see you've tried our world class wine 🙂
With apologies to [url= http://www.cairnomohr.com/ ]Cairn O Mohr[/url]

Scotland has many wonderful things to enjoy and be proud of, but "awesome" beer is stretching credibility even by wee eck's "elastic" standards.

And with one statement you've demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of the scottish beer industry 🙂

"Some" main stream tripe???? - "this Spesh is pesh" rings out far more than "hmm, nice pint this."

The odd pint of 90bob might make the "quite nice" though, granted!

Pfft your missing out. Assuming you get past border control you should do some beer exploration on a Scottish trip.

More like 6 years of perennial disappointment. Fortunately the Guinness Soc presented a worthy escape route.

I would rather stick to drinking your finer produce - highland spring with a wee islay chaser! The latter can truly be called awesome.

cairn O Mohr....there's a time and a place! 😛

I had pint after pint of fantastic beer when I did the Caledonian Canal a few years back. Absolutely ridiculous generalisation to say Scottish beer is shite.

Blimey folks, it's Friday evening get a SOH!!!

Oh.

It's just everyone's used to you not having one thm.

I am glad you can speak for everyone DD. Anyway a pint of mcEwans export on me, the next time/ if ever we meet. It will be a joy to watch anyone try to drink it. 😉

McEwans export? I'm only a shortarse. I'll just have a half.

Put that McEwans tripe away for goodness sake.

http://standrewsbrewingcompany.com/beers/fife-gold/ to start with.

Ossian in particular.

http://www.inveralmond-brewery.co.uk/classic-collection.html

McEwans, you *****

Proper 90 shilling Scottish beer beats Yorkshire sour (Timothy Taylor) anyday IMO.

Mmmmm Ossian mmmmm

to build a better fairer and more equal country

All of the above is apparently irrelevant because the central belt has a great future re financial services and the NE has oil!! Then there is Whisky to keep the rest of the North in AS pounds......

I here this quoted a lot but how is this going to be achieved?

At the moment the Scottish parliament controls around 7% of income, and with that has provided free proscriptions, mitigated the effects of the bedroom tax, and other measures not implemented south of the border. Think what could be done when Scotland controls 100% of income.

I know Dumfries is a bit shit these days Trekster, but it's not that bad surely? Lighten off the cynicism.

I would argue that none of the above will change with the current setup, and if it does it will be despite Westminster, not because of them. Just look at the bedroom tax.

The farmers that I know are broadly in favour of a Yes vote, Scotland should be able to argue for stronger fishing rights and if the man from BA is right we might see a reduction in taxes so making Scotland a cheaper place to visit.

Sure things wont change over night, how could they, but its the best opportunity to change things and try and make things better.

A fairer more equal society is necessarily a fair equal society. But it's an improvement.

I've not met a yes voter that expects an overnight magic cure. Although if the internet is to be believed they do exist.

breathing some clean fresh air thanks to our world-leading environmental obligations

There was a news article last month about how we're failing to meet our own and european atmospheric pollution targets 😛

Trekster my username is gordimhor not Dumbledore. 🙂 There's no magic wand. There would be a lot of tough times and failure. However at least we could begin to tackle issues by admitting there is a problem. Westminster doesn't even see a problem with homelessness for example. The bedroom tax is one thing that could be scrapped very swiftly. I believe we could even give people sufficient benefits to live on and make sure our old folk don't have to choose between heat or eat!
A yes vote is just a start hopefully it could give a big jolt to the political system and provoke further major change like much wider participation in politics particularly for the working class and fundamentally to bring power closer to ordinary folk geographically and otherwise. Finally a yes vote is not a vote for the SNP you can vote a different party in at the next election.
Funny enough I will be passing through the central belt on my way to Dumfries tomorrow.

When Scotland entered into a union with England it was an admission from Scots that they could not run their own country. Scottish people know this is true and that is why the yes vote is always behind the no vote in the polls. Scottish people have not changed in the last 300 years, they are no more intelligent or capable. After a landslide victory for the no campaign those that voted yes will have to learn to accept the fact that Scotland's natural state is to be ruled by the English.

nice try, 6/10

gordimhor not Dumbledore.

Now, and forever after. My mental image of you has been set.

:lol:good one[img] https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRwLSRiYt6c7lpDpHZMAfNuaSMX9uidsOs9HJGYOHocfoKfgFS3fg [/img]

"whatnobeer - Member
I know Dumfries is a bit shit these days Trekster, but it's not that bad surely? Lighten off the cynicism."

Wouldn't swap it for anywhere else, no worse than anywhere else and would hate to live in a city, country boy at heart.

Just fed up of BS. Shoulda, coulda, maybe is not doing it for me........Enough of it going about @ work. Having failed all of my high school O levels I am off the uneducated class! The odd person at work who intends voting yes are doing so because of their dislike of the English/UK government and no other reason!!

We have the feeling my workplace is playing a holding game(running the place down)until the outcome of the vote, being in the UK as a way into Europe.

My neighbour is about to lose her job due to McCasgills police reforms.

For what it's worth I work in social care which is now funded by the NHS and the cuts we are facing up to are a major reason that the SNP cannot rely on my vote at the next election if Scotland votes yes.

fasternotfatter

mate, you're from the north of england, where do you think that puts you in the grand scheme of "ruling"? 😆

MrsT works for an NHS/SE dept and deals with local councils as part of her job, it's all a shambles and costing us millions apparently. She was under the impression that a recent departmental reorganisation, new bosses etc would be for the better until a meeting this week 🙄 As she says statisticians can make up and tell you whatever you want, all depends on how you frame the question to get the answer you want.