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if the independence thing goes wrong, for any reason, in the future.
will scotland be let back in?
Nope. We'll chip it off and sink it.
Our Glorious Leader says No!
No, we'll build a big viewing platform at the Carter bar, like on the Korean DMZ
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where we can all point and laugh 😀
More importantly, is the rest of the UK prepared to bail them out of the shit when King Salmond has spent all of the money he doesn't have?
No, we'll have built a wall higher than as Salmonds ego, no chance of climbing that.
No - it's a union not the hokey-cokey.
It's very unlikely to go 'pear shaped'
If they do vote yes, I reckon they'll either be a bit better off or a bit worse off, that's all.
I really can't see a total collapse
will the M6 have a massive toll to travel north of carlisle? like an english tax.
No, we'll have built a wall higher than as Salmonds ego, no chance of climbing that.
Not possible, it's a bit like the universe. Massive, but no one has any real idea of just how massive, and impossible to quantify.
There is no chance of a yes vote now call me Dave has played his trump card by declaring how heart broken he'll be if we have to break up the 'family'. 🙄
will scotland be let back in?
Over Mel Gibson's dead body.
Hope not.
But I think they should take the opportunity as there has been so much hatred through the years with the Scotish against the English. So I would like them to vote yes and try it alone.
It can't really be yes - I mean even if they squeak it 53/47 or something you can't form a country on that basis, it's not even an electoral majority.
Most independence referenda pass with crushing majorities, like 90% plus, because they're called in response to major events and changing circumstance. This one has been called in response to no events of any significance whatsoever, so it can't be expected to enable such big changes.
More importantly, is the rest of the UK prepared to bail them out of the shit when King Salmond has spent all of the money he doesn't have?
Not again.
Anyway the pretend revenues from the shortbread mines that they don't have will make Scotland the new [s]Iceland[/s], err [s]Greece[/s]. err Shangri-La.
They will only be allowed back in if they promise to stop saying such hurtful things about us all, and to tell us the secret recipe for deep fried mars bars.
We can build a Game of Thrones Wall and keep the Wildings out...
What again? 1707 all over?
http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/unioncrownsparliaments/dariencolony/index.asp
There is a link on the BBC website which asks 'What might a Scottish defence force look like?'
I had a vision of hundreds of men in kilts wielding claymores and playing bagpipes coming over the hill... Scary!
What, like last time it happened?
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme ]Darien Scheme[/url]
Nah, the Chinese will just outbid us for anything of value next time.
Smaller countries will be easy pickings, the rest of the UK is pretty defenceless as it is even as part of the E.U.
Scotland would need an actual leader to defend itself when they buy up B.P. along with the refinery/tech companies/etc and bleed the profits away out of their economy.
I'm not sure Salmond would be up to the challenge. Which is what I'd be more worried about if I was north of the border, if they want to go it alone, good for them, I hope it works out, but to bet it on going smoothly with Salmond at the helm! 😯
I'd be crapping myself as the Vultures circled, playing at the big table you'd want to bring your best, the rest of the world might be all smiles to your face but they're guaranteed to be looking at your weak spots and eying up the family silver.
And Salmond reckons he can do regime change in a year? Yeah, good luck with that. History tends to say that sort of thing goes really smoothly. 😉
Lets say it is a yes vote, and lets say (hypothetically as said above i dont really see it happening) it did go tits up, why the hell would RUK bail them out when they've made their feelings known with the vote........
why the hell would RUK bail them out when they've made their feelings known with the vote
We could take them back as slaves?
It's not gonna happen, there just is not the economy to support Scotland, The sooner that the Scots recognize that "Scottish" translates to "Subject of the English", the better.
if it did go yes vote, then it should pan out like the film "Doomsday (2008)"....
Wat we gonna do about Fort Bill???
J450n - only been on here a week and feeling the bitterness already?.
😆tomhoward - Member
No, we'll have built a wall higher than as Salmonds ego, no chance of climbing that.
Not possible, it's a bit like the universe. Massive, but no one has any real idea of just how massive, and impossible to quantify.
Anyone read Charles Stross' [i]Halting State[/i]? It posits a Scotland after independence, as part of a story involving money laundering through on-line AD&D MMORG games. Terrific fun.
Scotland would need an actual leader to defend itself when they buy up B.P. along with the refinery/tech companies/etc and bleed the profits away out of their economy.
The way the strong English leadership has defended the UK car industry so that the profits from automotive manufacuring don't get....?
Anyway, there are more important things to discuss, ton, stop fannying about with this nonsense, get yourself up here and enjoy yourself - the weather's looking fine just now.
I'll be standing at the boat club in Ft Bill with my blunderbuss charging you a fortune to get in!
No English notes will be accepted of course, just a snooty expression and a "What is that?"
😉
The way the strong English leadership has defended the UK car industry so that the profits from automotive manufacuring don't get....?
Exactly, just with much less of a position of strength and with a leader that doesn't like to cloud his dreams with details or reality (even more than the usual bunch in Westminster! ).
The Uk might have sold it's legs and is busy bleeding to death but it's big enough to take bigger people down with it so we are kept upright by the power of agreed denial. Scotland on the other hand.
Not so much.
If Salmond gets it wrong, Scotland gets hammered and globally no one will care.
I would put my mortgage on it being a NO vote
I would put my mortgage on it being a NO vote
Go on then?
I want to see that betting slip.
There seems to be a big presumption that the referendum is driven by anti Englishness. I've talked to dozens of people up here and anti Englishness don't feature at all. Of course we have anti English jokes just like you guys have anti Irish/Welsh/French/German/Scottish or just plain anti Jonny Foreigner jokes.
From up here it seems like Britain is a country that has closed all its industries and relies upon gambling on the stock market for survival. The part of the country that has benefited is the South East of the country; everybody else has been left to rot, so it appears.
There is a real groundswell of opinion up here that thinks the status quo stinks and thinks we could hardly do worse for ourselves.
There is some empathy for the part of England not in the SE that will get lumped with the status quo regardless.
Nae value in no down the bookies. Yes on the other hand - 3/1 last I saw. Anyone heaved on?
We don't need another Scotland thread so I'll jump in on this one.
If (as I am) you are English why do you want the Scots to stay?
For me I just know the separation will be an endless money pit and that we will just have loads of tit for tat policies of scorned lovers.
chickenman - MemberThere seems to be a big presumption that the referendum is driven by anti Englishness.
Brilliant conversation at the uni- man tells 3 people on a Yes stand that they're only pro-independence because they hate the english. 2 out of 3 Yes campaigners turn out to be english. Man accuses them of self-loathing.
If (as I am) you are English why do you want the Scots to stay?
Well, I'm half English, and I want them to stay. Mainly because I think that unity is better than division. A federal UK would be ideal, IMO, and if they leave we'll never get it.
Also I'm no fan of Tory governments, and having a bunch of my allies just bugger off and leave me to the wolves does make me a bit depressed.
From up here it seems like Britain is a country that has closed all its industries and relies upon gambling on the stock market for survival.
Don't be ridiculous. You're reading too much hysterical media by the looks of things. For a start, we have manufacturing. But whilst we are a service-based economy, that doesn't mean financial gambling.
I work in a service industry - I help people get their shit done, it's very productive.
Haha! Classic NW!
Bloody walloper.
Brilliant conversation at the uni- man tells 3 people on a Yes stand that they're only pro-independence because they hate the english. 2 out of 3 Yes campaigners turn out to be english. Man accuses them of self-loathing.
😀
Remarkably like a phone call I had from a shouty woman a few days ago.
my great grandad was from aberdeen. so i have a bit of scotland in me. it it is heritage which i dont want to see destroyed.
Hmmm Mols: Strikes me you need to supply something that people abroad want to buy and that brings money into peoples pockets rather than people here who buy services and the money comes from where?
Of course we'll let them back in, we're pussies! Just like now we're giving them what they wanted in the first place, DevoMax!
The whole thing is a massive f-up. I just don't understand how any more devolved powers is fair on the rest of the UK. Should just be stay or go, end of.
I effing hate politicians!
Of course we'll let them back in, we're pussies! Just like now we're giving them what they wanted in the first place, DevoMax!The whole thing is a massive f-up. I just don't understand how any more devolved powers is fair on the rest of the UK. Should just be stay or go, end of.
Wouldn't worry yourself, it's probably a lie to try and sway a few voters
I'm already building a camouflage fat bike for cross-border raiding.
Northwind - Member
Brilliant conversation at the uni- man tells 3 people on a Yes stand that they're only pro-independence because they hate the english. 2 out of 3 Yes campaigners turn out to be english. Man accuses them of self-loathing.
That's amazing, that's five people I know who have exactly the same conversation. Some coincidence, hey? 😉
Hmmm Mols: Strikes me you need to supply something that people abroad want to buy and that brings money into peoples pockets
Why?
We could take them back as slaves?
it would be fitting after the lowlanders enslaved large numbers of the northern English in the 11th century
but who would a grumpy Scot lurking round the house 😉
Big Eck says that "independence is not a one way street" remember - so we'll definitely get back in!
Who says if it went wrong "back in" means "back to how it was before" rather than something better, but different.
It's just as stupid to say Scotland and the UK could never rejoin, as it would be to vote on the 18th on the basis that if we don't like it we can just go back. In the long term anything is possible, the Britain of today's very different from the Britain of 1707 and who knows how things will look in another hundred years. We could all end up together in the Federal States Of Europe, or maybe it won't happen til we all upload to the same spaceship 😉
[i]Brilliant conversation at the uni- man tells 3 people on a Yes stand that they're only pro-independence because they hate the english. 2 out of 3 Yes campaigners turn out to be english. Man accuses them of self-loathing.[/i]
My nationality is irrelevant as I live in Scotland so I can vote. 🙂
In the short term (20 yrs or so) I doubt you could get an affirmative vote in a UK referendum to take Scotland back after all this aggro.
Not much is impossible, but a Scottish return is highly improbable I would say.
when was the last time anyone asked to come back under British rule after gaining independence?
It's just as stupid to say Scotland and the UK could never rejoin, as it would be to vote on the 18th on the basis that if we don't like it we can just go back. In the long term anything is possible,
but the reality is that any "re-union" movement in a future iS will only be because it's gone belly up again. You will have to wait a long time for the collective rUK memory to forget the billions that we will have wasted on the separation before we'll spend a penny on a re-union
If (as I am) you are English why do you want the Scots to stay?
Partly because independence will be economically bad for rUK (unfortunately it's not a zero sum game - it will be worse for iS, but still affect us in quite a negative way).
Partly because I just like having Scotland as part of the same country I live in, from kind of a romantic POV - I think the UK is actually a pretty good country all things considered.
Partly because I just like having Scotland as part of the same country I live in, from kind of a romantic POV - I think the UK is actually a pretty good country all things considered.
Big hugs aracer 🙂
Can't we just ignore the referendum, or would that be a bit too Putiny?
Salmond quipped something like "What are they going to do, invade?", well what the **** are the Scottish going to do? Resist us with scotch, spears and blue facepaint?
The last Labour government stated that their legal advice was that any Scottish referedum would be unconstitutional, as any changes to the constitution are a reserved matter for Westminster. However the current Coalition government have now rejected this notion. They say, "In terms of constitutional law, at present, a binding referendum would be for the UK government to determine but there's scope for an advisory referendum within the existing rules and regulations."
big_n_daft - Memberbut the reality is that any "re-union" movement in a future iS will only be because it's gone belly up again.
Nah, not at all. In the current political climate, sure, but your crystal ball must be very well polished if you can predict what comes next at all, let alone in this sort of detail.
What is pear shaped? If it turns out we can't afford it, we'll just need to cut out cloth to suit. I see no problem with that, we'll still be here. It's unlikely we'll fall off into the north sea. We most certainly won't be asking for reunion, that'd be a ridiculous idea, that cannot possibly be good for Scotland. It wouldn't be a union that would be on the table..
Plus if we leave no danger would ruk vote us back in, there would need to be a referendum surely?
Plus if we leave no danger would ruk vote us back in, there would need to be a referendum surely?
I think this would be the response.
Nah, not at all. In the current political climate, sure, but your crystal ball must be very well polished if you can predict what comes next at all, let alone in this sort of detail.
why would there be a "re-union" movement in Scotland if it was the utopia of AS's dreams? The only circumstance would be if there was real difficulty, otherwise you would continue to count your pennies north of the border and ignore rUK
as for rUK having you back? There is nothing quite like a Yorkshireman for having a long memory and bearing grudges if you have cost him money out of his own pocket
Salmond quipped something like "What are they going to do, invade?", well what the **** are the Scottish going to do? Resist us with scotch, spears and blue facepaint?
Scottish Coastal Defence Forces = three drunks hurling buckie bottles off the pier! 😆
I think Scotland should form a union with Ireland and Andorra. Andorra gets coastline, Scotland gets more reliable skiing and Ireland gets...no, I don't know what they get.
Scottish Coastal Defence Forces = three drunks hurling buckie bottles off the pier!
We could always recruit you, to act as the angry wee man, you can rip off as many wing mirrors as you want then!
doh - Memberwhen was the last time anyone asked to come back under British rule after gaining independence?
Jamaica:
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20110628/lead/lead1.html
Pollster Bill Johnson, who, on May 28 and 29 and June 4 and 5, conducted an islandwide survey among 1,008 people, found that 60 per cent of Jamaicans held the view the country would be better off under British rule.Conversely, 17 per cent of those surveyed said the country would be worse off had it remained a colony of Britain, while 23 per cent said they did not know. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus four per cent.
[i]Salmond quipped something like "What are they going to do, invade?", well what the **** are the Scottish going to do? Resist us with scotch, spears and blue facepaint?[/i]
Sorry, but remind us where the Subs are? 🙂
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Sorry, but remind us where the Subs are?
Out at sea somewhere under UK command?
We could always recruit you, to act as the angry wee man, you can rip off as many wing mirrors as you want then!
You could, what is the offer? As many empty buckie bottles as I can throw? 😆
Great bit of fun this, but I know we have some Scottish folks on here and well, we really are just taking the piss. You know that don't you?
You do right? 😕
when was the last time anyone asked to come back under British rule after gaining independence?
I worked with a Sudanese bloke in about 2006 ish and he said that when he visited back home people were always asking him hopefully when the British were coming back.
Good to see all the usual racial stereotypes are present and correct on this thread.
Great bit of fun this, but I know we have some Scottish folks on here and well, we really are just taking the piss. You know that don't you?
You do right?
You might be, but always with the Internet, it's sometimes hard to tell. That, and an awful of people aren't taking the piss. The genuinely believe some of the shite they're spouting.
Ok I'm going to say it..
I'm taking the piss that's all. 😀
Fire away at me for being a soft Suvvener, I probably deserve it 😆
big_n_daft - Memberwhy would there be a "re-union" movement in Scotland if it was the utopia of AS's dreams?
Leaving aside that nobody in the Yes campaign has ever suggested that iScotland would be a utopia- though lots of No people claim that's the idea, because that's easier than engaging with the truth- there's plenty of reasons why a reunion could become beneficial for a succesful scotland and a succesful UK. In 300 years time the whole idea of a separate UK might seem absurd never mind a separate Scotland.
Nothing's forever- ask the Burgundians.
So apart from a survey in Jamaica and some bloke from Sudan nobody has asked to be taken back under Brit rule.
Yet many people on here are giving themselves friction burns from the frenzied frottage at the thought of being able to tell Scotland to eff off when they come back broke and on their knees.
Like some angry bloated old drunk left by his wife.
So apart from a survey in Jamaica and some bloke from Sudan nobody has asked to be taken back under Brit rule.
Er no, I think you've missed the point. The point is that British rule (in terms of Empire) was/is not universally viewed as negative in all cases, though undoubtedly some.
In 300 years time the whole idea of a separate UK might seem absurd never mind a separate Scotland.
Yeah, separate England/Wales/NI as federated EU states along with Scotland is most likely imo 🙂
For me I just know the separation will be an endless money pit and that we will just have loads of tit for tat policies
This +1,
The oil? Relaistic estimates put the point of no more viable reserves at 25 years and a gradual decline up untill that point.
The BoE chairman yesterday pointed out that you can't just unilatteraly adopt a currency as there's no one to underwrite it, so there's no access to the markets unless they set up a 'Bank of Scotland' and start saving up 10's of billions of pounds to underwrite a currency board.
Salmond's offering businesses a 3p reduction in corperation tax, and they're still queing up to say they'll move south in the event of a yes vote. And even if it works and they beocme the next Luxenburg, that only lasts untill someone cuts theirs by 4p and it becomes a race to the bottom with the only winners being the likes of Starbucks, vodaphone and google.
I understand the desire to have better democratic reprisentation, but economicaly I don't see that it makes sense for either side, we'll all be worse off.