But look at this:
Includes:
Even if I did all that [doping] but I was a gentleman and I had class and dignity and treated people with respect, they would've let me off.
In other news, something about bears. Or Popes. But yes, Lance, that’s right. It’s about the way you acted. Shame it took so many years for him to say (or realise).
The American, 47, was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling for life in 2012 before admitting to using performance-enhancing drugs.
Presumably that's missing the word "competitive", it would seem harsh to stop him nipping to the shops on his bike...
So, he seems to have genuinely realised what he did wrong and is sorry. If we were to believe that, doesn't that mean we should forgive him, on a personal level? Of course the sanctions have to stand regardless.
This is a philosophical question btw, rather than my personal position.
That's just his therapist talking. Jog on...
I’m doubtful that he is genuinely sorry, he’s just talking about the most important person in the world (himself) and invited a journalist to record it.
Oh, I don’t think he’s actually sorry. But it is nice to have him acknowledge that it was the doping that caused the sporting sanctions, and the enormous amount of “acting like an arse” that likely meant he was persued so hard, for so long.
I don't think it's unreasonable to entertain the possibility that now he's stepped back, and is considerably older, he's been able to rethink what he did. Is that not common for people to do?
Interesting one.
Is it actually fair to demand that sociopaths be genuinely sorry anyway?
How many other convicted dopers have been made to pay £78m ?
Read that again, SEVENTY EIGHT MILLION POUNDS !!
I think he has been disproportionatly punished for being part of a systemic doping program.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the possibility that now he’s stepped back, and is considerably older, he’s been able to rethink what he did. Is that not common for people to do?
Haven't read the article - don't have the time to waste on that arse (see below) but nothing in the quote implies remorse, it's more "... if it wasn't for those pesky kids"
Is it actually fair to demand that sociopaths be genuinely sorry anyway?
Probably not but it's definitely not a requirement for us to accept their behaviour or their subsequent justification/whining just because they're a tosser
I think he has been disproportionality punished for being part of a systemic doping program.
I don't agree. The money was obtained by deception and the eye-watering amount is a reflection of the huge gains he made from cheating.
I can't believe people are still arguing about him!
No other professional cyclist has ever made anything close to the money LA did.
The punishment was proportionate IMO.
I don’t agree. The money was obtained by deception and the eye-watering amount is a reflection of the huge gains he made from cheating.
But name one other convicted doper (and there are many, many of them) that has been so ruthlessly pursued and punished, and made to pay back huge sums of earnings.
What the hell happened there, the forum is having a freak out !
I think he has been disproportionatly punished for being part of a systemic doping program.
How many made that much?
He may have been ruthlessly pursued, (or not, that is a matter of opinion after all) but how did he choose to behave at the slightest suggestion that he may have been doping?
How many made that much?
So, whats the limit? At what point do you have to pay back your immoral earnings?
Goddammit !!
anyone elses reply box gone all weird??
Given the number of sports people and other once famous people have declared themselves bankrupt and started again there were other options available to the cheating arsehole so I think what he means is it's helped him stay more comfortable...
So, whats the limit? At what point do you have to pay back your immoral earnings?
Generally it will be if it is cash efficient to chase it down and if the rules allow it (some sports wont and some contracts wont have it in there). Others have had to repay far lower amounts. My point was he had to pay back far more since he had earned far more.
anyone elses reply box gone all weird??
You have to hit the close tags button now once you have finished quoting/whatever.
You have to hit the close tags button now once you have finished quoting/whatever.
Thanks.
Generally it will be if it is cash efficient to chase it down and if the rules allow it (some sports wont and some contracts wont have it in there). Others have had to repay far lower amounts. My point was he had to pay back far more since he had earned far more.
Yeah I get that, my point is this guy has paid and paid and paid for his mistake and people still treat him with such venom and disdain. He was only one part of much bigger problem but has been victimized and hunted down just because he was successful. Yes he was a dick, but lots of successful sportspeople are, its part of what makes them winners.
Armstrong does not deserve your defence., He killed others careers, he brought the sport into disrepute like no other, he is a nasty arrogant bully and probably a psychopath.
I can think of no other "sportsman" that behaved like he has done - and all that money was obtained under false pretences ie fraud. He is lucky not to be in jail
Yes he was a dick, but lots of successful sportspeople are, its part of what makes them winners.
Maybe but he was the uber Dick. The Dicko de tutti Dicko. He destroyed people knowing full well that they spoke the truth.
Also it was no mistake - its was deliberate and systematic
But that bhc article was the first time I have seen him so clearly recognise that he is hated for being a dick and not for the doping. Still happy to never hear about him again though
"I had class and dignity and treated people with respect, they would’ve let me off."
That didn't extend to the heavies that he used to get to intimidate journalists and have them removed from the room, though, did it.....
A "gentleman" eh?...shall we let Betsy Andreu and Greg Lemond be a judge of that? Anyone that dared speak against him was hounded, threaten with libel by his pack of rabid lawyers and then we had the whole cancer Jesus thing and all the fanboys who feigned after him and still pop-up to defend him. The reason that he got done for $78m was that he decided that defrauding a US Government agency was a good idea.
Verses: he's so banned from cycling that threads about him aren't even allowed on the bike forum 😉
Cancer jesus lol
He was only one part of much bigger problem but has been victimized and hunted down just because he was successful.
I'm struggling to see Armstrong as a victim in the fallout from the doping he benefited so massively from but I'm happy to agree that the systemic cheating should have been jumped on earlier and harder if that's your point. The only way to stop it is to make it really not worth the risk, and that's a function of likelihood of detection and severity of penalty.
Taking all his earnings for the entire period of his career when he was cheating would not be disproportionate. As it is, I gather he's sitting pretty with his Uber gains which begs the question of how he obtained his investment capital.
I’m a Lance fanbouy, has to be pointed out.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to entertain the possibility that now he’s stepped back, and is considerably older, he’s been able to rethink what he did. Is that not common for people to do?
+1
Problem is IMO he did obtain the prize money by deception, getting caught doping never happened but he did use methods to conceal and deceive. And, he was a bully and ruined others careers..
For those two points I’ll never forgive him.
But boy do I admire him. Stoic and steadfast in his opinions and still competes at the highest level in events he’s allowed to enter.
I get the feeling that not everyone here is reading the linked story.
OK, so take a look at this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France
Scroll to the bottom of the page and look at Doping histories of Top-10 finishers, 1998–2015 and Status of Tour de France winners since 1961.
Pantani is considered one of the Tour greats and held on a pedestal despite his massive PED use. Hell, Tom Simpson has a ***** shrine on Ventoux but was another high profile PED user. Too many other examples.... how many of them have been pursued so ruthlessly for their career earnings?
Trailwagger: do you think it's unfair that he was made to pay money back? Where do you get the 78 million quid figure from - he paid $5 million in April to settle he USPS litigation as far as I can see. And it's hardly like he's destitute as a result.
Pantani and Simpson? Well you couldn't have picked a more hackneyed pair of examples, but I'd say they both paid a slightly stiffer price than LA in the end.
I get the feeling that not everyone here is reading the linked story.
Yeah in summary, glad I invested some of my ill gotten gains into Uber other wise I might have to actually get a job and work for a living. Whats that a camera 😁
Trailwagger: do you think its unfair that he was made to pay money back?
No. But I do think its unfair that no-one else (to my knowledge) has been treated the same. Given the high profile of a lot of other dopers, their earnings from winning and sponsorship must be substantial (in the millions). How much has Contador, Schleck, Vavlerde, Hamilton, Hincapie etc had to pay back of their winnings and sponsorship?
Pantani and Simpson? Well you couldn’t have picked a more hackneyed pair of examples, but I’d say they both paid a slightly stiffer price than LA in the end.
Yes they did, but they were cheats non the less. So why are they held in such high regard, along with plenty of others (Merckx, Anquetil, Ulrich, Fignon etc)
Personality clash maybe 🤣🤣🤷♂️
Yeah, this popped up on BBC breakfast this morning on TV, in sports section!!
WHY?? not even a sports story, ex cyclist gets some money back from investing in Uber when it started. (and prob with money from his ill gotten gains) more biz then Sport. wast of time reporting on it IMO. Lance should just poke off.
Thou this did make me smile.
If Armstrong had never doped in his life, but HAD been ruthless and a bully and a win at all costs type of character would you still feel the same about him?
If he was the nicest guy on the planet but doped all day long, would you still feel the same about him?
If you ignore him will he go away?
If Armstrong had never doped in his life, but HAD been ruthless and a bully and a win at all costs type of character would you still feel the same about him?
If he was the nicest guy on the planet but doped all day long, would you still feel the same about him?
Let me try to explain this.
If you are a nice guy (pantani, simpson, schleck, Contador et al) you can dope, get a smack on the wrist and carry on.
If you are a ruthless bully (Jordan, Mayweather, Ferguson et al) then you may not have many friends but you are held in high esteem for you achievements and win at all costs nature.
Mix the two things together and you get the most hated man on the sports planet. Some of the things people say about Armstrong (albeit online from the comfort of their armchair) are downright despicable.
So he's got older and he's a changed man? Bullshit. He was an arsehole, and still is an arsehole. It was only the other year when he decided to get drunk, and drive his SUV home. The inevitable happened, he crashed, then he pins it on his then girlfriend who was not driving.
I don't about cheating in a bike race, it really doesn't matter, the rest of the shit he's done in his life maks him a ****.