Certainly an interesting article and a valuable insight into Singletrack. It definitely encouraged me to renew my subscription considering how much time i spend lurking here.
Wonder how long before the first ‘everything on teh interwebz should be free, you are lucky to have my eyes glance your content’ whin.... I mean, post.
I think the Premium membership, digital anyway, is under priced!
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">This magazine and site mean a lot to me and I would hate to see it all vanish. I'd pay more to help keep it going. No, I'm not well off but I don't drink much, or smoke so I can indulge myself a little with Singletrack.</span>
Yes, the moaning will follow of course as said above.
I’m not going to moan, but this seemed a bit strange to me.
There is a business to be run that focuses purely on the forum..........But the thing is, we really aren’t interested in that business.
I am a forum user (who generates ad revenue) but never reads or buys the magazine and rarely reads any other content on the main site
As much as I like this place, I’m not really being woo’d into subscribing to support it with comments like that 😔
I suppose they're being honest but I also think a forum adds credibility to web stories reviewing(cough, advertising) bikes and bike bits.
I am a forum user (who generates ad revenue) but never reads or buys the magazine and rarely reads any other content on the main site
As much as I like this place, I’m not really being woo’d into subscribing to support it with comments like that
Pretty much that. I don't begrudge paying for what I use (I've previously cajoled quite a few forumites into subscribing) but neither do I think I should be subsidising what I don't. I cant see why a seperate subscription couldn't be introduced.
Of course, that's before we get into the "we're all advertising fodder" debate.😁
From the article, "We don’t pay a lot but we try and make sure we have fun and everyone has a pension"
Isn't having a pension law, or am I missing something, do STW go above & beyond what the law requires?
FWIW I subscribe but never read the virtual mags & I don't post much so I guess I get little for my subs, I'll continue to do so though, I like STW & it's one of the few forums I bother looking at as it still has fewer trolls/knobs than most.
Cheers.
PS, I emailed STW years ago when they wen't digital & said that the £1 trail would get you access to all the previous mags/ content, I thought it was a silly decision to make as why would anyone who wants digital mag content sign up for a year/decades when £1 every year gets it all albeit at a slower pace. Ho hum.
I am a forum user (who generates ad revenue) but never reads or buys the magazine and rarely reads any other content on the main site
As much as I like this place, I’m not really being woo’d into subscribing to support it with comments like that
I know what you're saying but i too think they're just being honest. Running a forum is more of an IT job.
The thing about being self-employed / a small business is that you're Following Your Passion™, and this mitigates the fact that you earn cock all and work until midnight half the week. I've done it too, and also been presented with directions that would have earned me more money, should i have wanted to go that way.
But if you're going to be doing something that isn't your passion, because it earns money, you might as well just get a job, where you'll get a salary and paid leave and sick pay and clock off at 5.30. Otherwise you get the worst of both worlds!
So yeah perhaps it doesn't look too good to be so blunt. But I would probably be thinking the same. And it's not like he said the forum isn't important - just that they consider it a part of the mix, and wouldn't want it to become the whole thing.
I know what you’re saying but i too think they’re just being honest.
Which is fair enough, as I said, I’m not moaning, just pointing out that if a business is trying to raise funds, this might not be the wisest of ways to approach the task. 👍
The ads don’t generate enough alone to cover the costs, they don’t want to increase the amount of ads on the forum as that’s not how they work and not what people want. Already the GDPR rules are showing a significant effect on the already low amount they produced hence why they decided to be open about their business and the effect it’s had.
I don't envy them, it must be really rough watching something you've built up slowly die away. I don't really like the mag content, it's not my thing and for news and reviews etc other sites do it bigger, better and usually sooner. Even if they had a dedicated fundraiser for the forum, without the younger generations signing up (which I assume they won't as there are more modern apps aimed at them than you can shake a stick at), it has a limited amount of life left in it. Think they have missed the boat in terms of keeping up with the way things are going.
Seems perfectly reasonable statement to me. If it was my business I’d be scratching my head looking for other income streams too, the forum is an aside to a press based production company selling content.
STW isn’t the only business model seeking to ratify its structure and strategy.
Good on em’ for making thier thoughts public I say.
👍☕️🍰
I'm and ex-P subscriber. And an ex-Print buyer. But still an avid forum lurker, occasional poster. Here is my view...
Mountain biking in my world has become less important. I've not touched my (many) mountain bikes for years, so almost all of the mag, articles, are of no interest. That being said, when I do occasionally leaf through a copy, i still get a buzz from the quality photos etc. Nowadays, all my riding is road or tour, with tiny amount of 'gravel'.
I note that the forum, in part at least, seems to have matched my cycling progression. A "what tyre..." thread is equally likely to be a summer 25mm race tyre, as it is to be a 2 1/2 inch muddy trail one.
So, my question is, why doesn't the mag follow this lead? I'm not suggesting changing tack, lock stock and barrel adjuster. Just a bit of non-mtb print content. So, say one article an edition, about touring (you can call it bikepacking if you like). Or a road based route through the mountains that we're more familiar with the singletrack trails in. Keep all the singletrack heritage, style, content, just add a piece or two to appeal to the greater cycling (read forum) audience.
Just a thought.
Suprised stw hasn't diversified a bit more on content.. they run enough polls to figure out what their readers are riding, thinking, eating, wearing, etc..
Sometimes you need to make a bold leap and be pioneers.. I dont even bother to regularly check current online content since I stopped my printed subscription
So, my question is, why doesn’t the mag follow this lead? I’m not suggesting changing tack, lock stock and barrel adjuster. Just a bit of non-mtb print content. So, say one article an edition, about touring (you can call it bikepacking if you like). Or a road based route through the mountains that we’re more familiar with the singletrack trails in. Keep all the singletrack heritage, style, content, just add a piece or two to appeal to the greater cycling (read forum) audience.Just a thought.
You should have seen the vitriol they got when they put in a small supplement about CX bikes!
Problem with trying to appeal to all possible readers is that you invariably turn off at least half the readership immediately. Better to do one discipline well than try and cover CX/bikepacking/MTB/touring/gravelroad/enduro all in one, you end up with a mag that has lots of small diluted articles each one of which only appeals to a small sub-group of an already relatively niche group.
Well, if thing's aren't working, you don't carry on doing the same things. If the Mag is struggling then maybe cloudnines suggestion could be the thing to save it. Or, you know, branch out into electronics 🤦
I was a subscriber for a year or so, then i cancelled as i found most of the articles and reviews to be pretty niche, coupled with water colour paintings by the editors girlfriend (or similar) instead of photos for certain articles were really not what i wanted to see.
Then i read that article on the front page and resubscribed as i think the mag deserves to survive, but if we're throwing suggestions out - could we have more mainstream bike reviews ( in addition to the niche stuff), less hipster content etc. Just change the ratio of content to be a little more mainstream , a little less 'right on'. And definitely no watercolour paintings instead of photos.
Question: you may have already considered it, but if not, would you consider a micro-payment model at all? Or even just an opportunity to donate funds to those inclined who already have a sub and want to help more, or don't have a sub and want to help at all?
I'm also not going to moan.
Shame he wasn't more forthcoming during the upgrade debacle, I cancelled by subscription over the way it was handled and general contempt towards forum users (which the article does nothing to dispel).
Question: you may have already considered it, but if not, would you consider a micro-payment model at all? Or even just an opportunity to donate funds to those inclined who already have a sub and want to help more, or don’t have a sub and want to help at all?
There was. Nobody did
I really wonder how many folk read the magazine compared to use the forum and what % this is. My feeling is the forum users will outnumber those on the rest of the website enormously. I only use the forum, never anything else on STW
Yes there was an almost complete lack of info during the upgrade.
Why has the data protection wotsit cost so much money?
Shame he wasn’t more forthcoming during the upgrade debacle, I cancelled by subscription over the way it was handled and general contempt towards forum users (which the article does nothing to dispel).
Same here.
I was a subscriber because
1. The ads slowed the forum down so much on my slow internet that it was almost unusable. So I subscribed to get an ad free experience as promised. But then I got logged out (and redirected to p0rn in the shop, in front of a customer) so many times during the "upgrade" that I was seeing ads all the time anyway.
2. To get access to the back catalogue to see bike and kit reviews from years ago (in my job this is useful) and read the trail guides and routes etc as promised when I took out the subscription. But even now, 5 months on from the "upgrade" I can only go back to issue 77.
3. To support an organisation which has been incredibly important to me over the years. But the way long term supporters have been treated in the last 5 months has made me question whether they deserve my support.
I really hope this site continues to exist successfully, but I will only re-subscribe when I feel like my support is justified.
Edit:
And you are still selling
- Access to the entire back catalog of issues of Singletrack dating back to 2001
Despite only having issue 77 and newer available. Advertising standards agency anyone????
But then I got logged out (and redirected to p0rn in the shop, in front of a customer)
Was there ever an apology for that? (Not sure why I'm asking, but...)
As an aside, when you have level-headed forumites like footflaps posting what he just did, I'd suggest something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
p.s This is not a moan. Just an observation.
But then I got logged out (and redirected to p0rn in the shop, in front of a customer)
Was there ever an apology for that? (Not sure why I’m asking, but…)
Of course not. An email from Tom asking what happened, which I replied to. Then silence. Not even an acknowledgement of my reply.
I was a regular buyer of the print mag for years before I became a subscriber. It's a small business operating in a challenging marketplace and, in my view, should be applauded for the honesty in article.
There's nothing wrong in an appeal for support - think Geldof at Live Aid.....give us your money.
It seems to me that of the forum's prolific contributors there are more members than subscribers - is that a 'free ride'?; I guess that's a fact of life with online forums (fora) but I can't avoid thinking that post-a-lot members who, I accept, can be entertaining/provocative/tedious and possible trolls should consider making a £ contribution for using the forum.
I like the look and feel of the mag - having spent time years ago in print/publishing - and appreciate the production quality; the content, less so but that's down to personal preferences but some earlier comments
I'm with Poopscoop ^^^ in that I would pay more if that helped support STW.
I will happily donate a (smallish) sum into the pot; why? It's the right thing to do; supports an SME, recognises honesty in the other party, recognises the value (by any definition) of the forum. So Mark/Chipps - is there a means of doing this?
To finish - a question for STW towers and/or mods....how many subscribers are there (print only/digi only/both), how many subscribers and members in total on the website, what is the split between subscribers and members on the website.
is that a ‘free ride’?; I guess that’s a fact of life with online forums (fora) but I can’t avoid thinking that post-a-lot members who, I accept, can be entertaining/provocative/tedious and possible trolls should consider making a £ contribution for using the forum.
Its an advertising revenue generating “free ride.”
I don’t use adblockers and my page impressions generate revenue.
I’m happy with that level of contribution to be honest
There’s nothing wrong in an appeal for support – think Geldof at Live Aid…..give us your money.
Im fairly certain that starving kids in Africa is a slightly more worthwhile cause than keeping a bicycle magazine afloat!
It seems to me that of the forum’s prolific contributors there are more members than subscribers – is that a ‘free ride’?;
Providing free content for STW to monetise aren’t we?
It’s more of a quid pro quo deal innit.
Why not charge folk to post in the classifieds? There must be some kind of subscription model that could monetize it. Not the "please donate if you do well in a sale" that doesn't work.
As an aside, when you have level-headed forumites like footflaps posting what he just did, I’d suggest something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
I made almost exactly the same comment to someone except instead of footflaps I used you as an example of a voice of reason.
Just thought that might tickle you. 🙂
I've just subscribed (print and digital) on the basis of this appeal.
Anyone else find it strange that they've got such a successful forum - containing all manner of insights/analytics into their audience's proclivities, and yet are having difficulty producing content that the same user base would find interesting enough to purchase?
Apparently Facebook swung elections for Trump/Brexit because they new what character from ducktales I most sympathised with, but the forum data can't raise enough to keep a handful of bike Journos in hobnobs?
I'm sure everyone would happily give STW all manner of personal details - we all routinely overshare on the forum anyway. What do you want to know?
From a simplistic perspective - perhaps STW should start seeking more of a compromise between the things that they want to write about, vs the things their audience will pay to read. Maybe overly simplistic - but it seems to be the core of the issue.
Keeping a lookout for articles on "what coffee machine/axe/woodburner" and "can I cut down my neighbor's leylandii?"
Forum users create content that STW then make money from via advertising. without contributors to the forum there is no content and no income
I'll echo the comment from@footflaps too.
All a bit contradictory. People are complicated, businesses are not, but people involved in their businesses like to think it's the business that's complicated. It isn't.
Im still a bit confused as to whether the forum is a drain on resources or an asset to the business. If the former and it's not in line with the companys' mojo, then sell it off.
I cancelled my subscription during the downdate. I’ve been thinking of renewing it, but can’t bloody find out how on the mobile site.
I would:
a) get rid of the chat secrions keep it all subject related.
b) Encourage sponsors to interact with member offers through the forum.
c) Get rid of the mods(see a) they will no longer be needed
d) Make content desicions based on analytics not personal preference.
e) Go heavy on subscriber benefits.
They just need to be more commercial, oh and stop moaning, thats what bike shops owners do just before they close down.
The forum issues have settled down a bit so I am going to renew my p
Here you go Funk mind it too me a few minutes too which is a bit silly.
https://singletrackworld.com/subscribe/
So, my question is, why doesn’t the mag follow this lead? I’m not suggesting changing tack, lock stock and barrel adjuster. Just a bit of non-mtb print content. So, say one article an edition, about touring (you can call it bikepacking if you like). Or a road based route through the mountains that we’re more familiar with the singletrack trails in. Keep all the singletrack heritage, style, content, just add a piece or two to appeal to the greater cycling (read forum) audience.
Sod that. I've subscribed since the early days, and I'll continue to do so, but if it goes all gravel I'll give it a miss. I understand why folks enjoy that type of riding, but it's extremely dull in print.
Here you go Funk mind it too me a few minutes too which is a bit silly.
Thanks Drac
Yeah who wants to read Road riding, it's singletrack not singleroad.
Nobeerinthefridge
...but if it goes all gravel I’ll give it a miss. I understand why folks enjoy that type of riding, but it’s extremely dull in print.
It was that that sort of content that drew me in originally.
Articles on actually going somewhere offroad on your bike on natural trails. I agree it can be dull, but it doesn't have to be.
What I look for in those sort of articles is detail on the sort of information needed to replicate the ride, and lots of photos of the scenery to see if it looks worthwhile.
I have zero interest in riding loops on groomed trails with berms, wooden features, drops, exciting descents etc, although I am interested in the technical side of those bikes, and admire the skills of those who can do so well.
Probably could be summed up by a preference primarily for recreational offroad travelling as opposed to athletic riding.
I have been known to do the odd race, but I rarely read anything about racing unless I know the participants.
I like technical articles but these days they are mainly advertorial PR reprocessed with no serious analysis.
