Looks like the phone to Chromecast bit might be the limiting factor?
'Chromecast devices will receive file tracks encoded with AAC with a maximum bitrate of 256 kbps, while Spotify Connect devices can receive the best quality audio encoded in OGG Vorbis at a bitrate of approx. 320 kbps.'
My setup now is a Pi running MyVolumio/Qobuz and my Chord DAC. Instead of a HAT I use a Topping D10s as a bridge between the Pi USB and my DAC.
Chromecast devices will receive file tracks encoded with AAC
Oh I missed this. If your phone is Android it may not be using AAC at a high bit rate. It might be lower, or it might be using SBC which if my headphones experience is anything to go by will be rubbish.
I don’t have that option
Bugger, i still do.
I’m gonna go with raspberry pi. There’s too much unknown with the chromecast, that’s the only downside to stuff that “just works” - best not to ask how. Should be up and running with the pi very quickly. Just about to order the hifi berry digi 2 pro to get me a digital audio out on the pi.
I had this problem recently. In Google Home does it appear as a Chromecast Audio or as a Speaker? It should be a speaker - if it isn't, remove it from your network and Google home, Factory reset the Chromecast Audio, reinstall it. The missing options should then appear.
Slight hijack, but do Chromecast Audio sound good or not?
(Arcam Alpha amplifier and Acoustic Energy Speakers would be the rest, non-optical connector to the amp)
Starting point: What phone by the way?
I had an LG V20 phone a couple of years ago with a Quad-dac, jack out of that was way better sound than Samsungs or iPhones. Probably the only thing the whole family agreed on music-wise!
It's also ok to just enjoy CDs and vinyl. I don't use a streaming service at home because I like the inlay cards, cover art etc.
Away from home it's gold but at home I enjoy physical format.
It’s also ok to just enjoy CDs and vinyl. I don’t use a streaming service at home because I like the inlay cards, cover art etc.
Away from home it’s gold but at home I enjoy physical format.
I would always rather listen to my records than streaming but they're not very convenient for listening in bed or in the bath 🙂
Right you lot, this is getting interesting.
There’s a digital source experiment about to start.
The constant throughout will be my DAC; an aged but high end unit, and my aged but nice analogue amp and speakers. You will have to put up with my aged but nice ears to let you know how it goes.
I will be trying several digital source variables.
I’ve got a 3.5mm to optical toslink cable coming in the post, cost £3. That means this weekend I’ll be able to test feeding my DAC with signal from my (haha, aged but nice) 2012 MacBook pro, cutting the chromecast and tv out of the mix. Thanks to TiRed for posting he uses this setup with tidal - I hadn’t realised I could get a digital out from the MacBook.
I will test Spotify and tidal and Qobuz.
I’ve ordered a hifiberry digi2 pro to give me a digital audio output from my raspberry pi. I expect this to be my long term solution - if it delivers the goods on convenience and sound. But let’s not pre-empt the experimental results yet!
Phil5556 is going to check his cupboards to see if he can still find that Chromecast Audio. Unlike my current chromecast, the Audio variant will go direct from to DAC via optical, cutting out the hdmi->tv bit. I’ll also try it in analogue out mode and try and answer midlifecrashes Q above. That will also inform my question… once we’ve sorted the digital source (assuming it can be made as good as CD) how does my aged dac compare to low cost modern stuff?
I will test Spotify and tidal and Qobuz.
Whilst you're at it, do make sure you have a listen to some high res files on Qobuz. A really good album to listen to is Daft Punk's Random Access Memories, which is available in 88/24 but is also a supremely well engineered album. Enjoy.
Side note on a few q’s above:
I have a record setup that I love. Rega planar 3, a RIAA pre-amp I designed (ok, copied and blended other peoples designs) and built myself.
But
I would always rather listen to my records than streaming but they’re not very convenient for listening in bed or in the bath 🙂
Kinda this.
Records are reserved for special listening when I’m on my own. I was a bit surprised, going back to the start of this thread, that CD’s should be revered in the same way. I thought my streaming setup was filling that use case - just sticking some music on. We dug out the cds following TOTP 1994 as I recalled to my partner how every weekend my dad was playing music loud, and I wanted my 3 year old daughter to grow up with music. When we put the cds on suddenly the music was more powerful and exciting, and whether my daughter can hear that or not, she can feel my excitement. The aim is to achieve that with the added convenience of streaming.
Another side note:
Starting point: What phone by the way?
Phones not part of the equation. With chromecast, the phone is merely instructing the chromecast to autonomously stream a song over WiFi (via Spotify connect in my case). I could of course connect the phone via a headphone cable to the amp. Might be an interesting addition to the experiment… how does an iPhone 11 analogue out compare to a 20 year old £1500 (then) DAC?
Nor is Bluetooth a factor, that others have mentioned.
When we put the cds on suddenly the music was more powerful and exciting
Your streaming sound can be just as good and likely way way better than your CD player into the DAC, you just need a really good music server. It's your source in a set up like this and the quality of the box makes a ton of difference.
Your streaming sound can be just as good
I’m absolutely convinced of this from everyone’s response.
I’m very curious to see the step from Spotify, once I’m sure it’s working it’s best, to a higher bitrate platform.
But so far, I have opinions. Let’s do an experiment!
Mine looks just like that except I have a settings cog icon between the equaliser and triple dot icon in the top right of the second picture.
I've no idea... maybe a permissions thing? Is it your Google account that its all set up on? Or might just be that Home is still a bit clunky, probably resetting it all and reinstalling would fix it but I'm not sure its worth the effort TBH.
Is it your Google account that its all set up on?
Yup
Or might just be that Home is still a bit clunky
I'm going with this. Re-installing / resetting makes no difference. I get the options cog for the Chromecast 4k connected to my telly but not for either of the Chromecast audios. Not going to lose any sleep, they're both working well.
I still collect CD's. I had Tidal but preferred CD's, and ripping to FLAC myself. I hear new music on the Radio, if I want to delve deeper I find some free stuff online. Then if I'm convinced I google up the artists best album and order up the CD. If I like that when it arrives I keep going with the back catalogue. I get less pleasure streaming. I like to really get to know music before moving on, streaming seems superficial to me.
I’m a big fan of chromecast but it only supports Spotify bit rate up to 250kbs quality.
For 320(highest) you need a Spotify connect client. Regardless of it being a video or audio chromecast. Yours appears to be over hdmi.
The wimm linked above is a good bet. Or raspberry pi with hat that outputs spdif into your dac rather than a dac hat. They seem to be hard to source lately and will look a bit diy science project.
The other problem is as said before is that it isn’t and seemingly never will be gapless. Which frankly is terrible for an audio streamer. Great for radio though.
It’s definitely nothing to do with error rates. That’s complete nonsense given the tcp error correction and packet replay. It’s actually where streaming is superior to a cd transport.
It’s definitely nothing to do with error rates. That’s complete nonsense given the tcp error correction and packet replay. It’s actually where streaming is superior to a cd transport.
This video, by an actual audio engineer, explains where the errors in streaming data come from. It's not in the data but rather than timing. The engineer in the video explains that packet data contains no timing information. I have to take his word for that since I'm not a designer of audio equipment and he is.
There's some fascinating behaviours at play when you compare streaming, CD and vinyl listening, particularly among people who aren't legacy vinyl listeners (ie have come to it since the 90s, say).
Records are reserved for special listening when I’m on my own. I was a bit surprised, going back to the start of this thread, that CD’s should be revered in the same way.
A lot of this, for example.
I still collect CD’s. I had Tidal but preferred CD’s, and ripping to FLAC myself. I hear new music on the Radio, if I want to delve deeper I find some free stuff online. Then if I’m convinced I google up the artists best album and order up the CD. If I like that when it arrives I keep going with the back catalogue. I get less pleasure streaming. I like to really get to know music before moving on, streaming seems superficial to me.
...and very much this. Personally I have a gut feeling that if I don't have the CD I don't really 'have' the music; and the reality of streaming services is that it's possible your favourite music could disappear overnight from online sources, or simply never appear on them (although it's less common than it used to be). Having the CD and ripping it means your music is all under your own roof at whatever quality you want!
Having the CD and ripping it means your music is all under your own roof at whatever quality you want!
I'm not sure I get the point of buying the CD only to then rip it rather than just buying a download veresion from say Qobuz or Tidal? I've heard that there is a difference to be heard between different 'bit perfect' copies of an album ripped by different software (for example DBAmp, which is the product I used to rip 600 CDs at the end of 2020 when I built my new system), but I've not heard that demonstrated and if nothing else, the environmental impact of buying the CD compared to download persduades me that download is an easy choice.
The one other thing I have mentioned several times here in this thread but which no one has picked up on is the value that using Roon brings to the whole experience of music listening. It really is an amazing interface and adds so much value when accessing content from either a NAS drive or streaming service.
and the reality of streaming services is that it’s possible your favourite music could disappear overnight from online sources
If that happens you could then go and buy the CD.
This video, by an actual audio engineer, explains where the errors in streaming data come from.
That doesn't really explain a lot. He says that when decoding a bit stream your power draw goes up, which causes more noise in your PSU which then can be heard in your music. Even if that's true it would rather depend on what's doing decoding and where. In the OP's case both bit streams - CD and download - are going through the same DAC which is doing the same work, I think? And in my case, comparing my CD player and my Echo Link, they are both doing the same work all the time which is precisely what they are designed to do. So I am not exactly sure we have learned a lot from that vid.
I'm not disputing that there could be a difference between different rippers or different digital sources, but I'm not sure that video explains how it's possible.
I have a feeling though that the biggest variable in the streaming/ripping debate is what the source material actually is. The stuff you are streaming may not be from the CD, it could be from a different digital copy. And most of my new music is streaming in Ultra HD which suggests that is likely to be the case.
That doesn’t really explain a lot.
Bless Paul, I think he's a really lovely bloke and he's built a very successful audio company (so he clearly does know at least something about electronic engineering as applied to audio equipment) but yes, his videos do tend to be a little superficial!
Most people don't care why something sounds different/better they just appreciate the difference and then choose to enjoy A versus B. The only time this becomes a problem is when (usually obstinate) engineering types who A) don't really care about music, B) have never listened to the differecnes and C) do not fully understand the nuances and intricacies of audio equipment design, insist that because music is just zeros and ones or because there is nothing that can be measured and changing, it cannot possibly sound different or make any difference. Even this isn't really the problem; the real problem is that they deliver that scathing refrain in a way that implies (usually it's not even implied but quite direcet) that you're an idiot for thinking so.
BTW I'm not even remotely suggesting that this is you Molgrips or indeed anyone on this thread.
A downloaded copy of the same album sounds better (on my sytem, to my ears) than a streamed one in every instance that I have tested it. I don't care why so much as I care that buying the media A) gives me more enjoyment and B) give the artist an income.
the environmental impact of buying the CD compared to download persduades me that download is an easy choice.
Really? Interesting question, I had a retort but thinking about it the issue may not be as clear. What I do know is having a physical copy is worth more to me.
As you say though, different releases may have different mastering so it's not always going to be the same final product (I have at least one album with completely different mixes of the tracks on Spotify than the CD).
Really? Interesting question, I had a retort but thinking about it the issue may not be as clear.
To be fair, I meant more the environmental impact on my (small) house rather than the planet as a whole 😂 my living room is only 3.8m by 3.6m and where to store what would now be around 1000 albums would be a real challenge. How to navigate them is also tricky, as in experiencing the flow of music.
Oddly, I always thought my listening would end up becoming a little fickle if I moved to ripped/download/streaming as I thought it would encourage flitting from one track to next. Actually I still find myself listening to a complete album maybe 90% of the time.
I had an LG V20 phone a couple of years ago with a Quad-dac, jack out of that was way better sound than Samsungs or iPhones.
It may well have been, it’s an analogue signal from the 3.5 Jack, so will need a DAC if a better quality signal is required. If it’s an iPhone with a Lightning port, the output is digital, but there’s a DAC built into the Lightning plug, so if using wired headphones, which I tend to do most of the time, the signal is decoded directly at the output source. Fortunately, both my headphones and my earphones have replaceable cables, and there are 3.5mm > Lightning and MMCX > Lightning cables available which don’t cost an arm and a leg, so I get full-fat Lossless instead of an adulterated Bluetooth signal.
I was looking at a review of some headphones by a company who make studio microphones, and they’re completely analogue, no BT, extra controls, etc, but it they dohave two 3.5mm sockets, so you can choose which side to have the cable exit from. Apparently, they’re very high quality sound, very neutral without excessive bass, and only £145, so I’ll be looking into getting a set at some point.
Been trying to find the review for anyone interested, but it seems to have disappeared, however I’ve still got the manufacturer site open, so here’s the link:
https://rode.com/en/headphones/over-ear/nth-100
They’re £149.00 online. I like the idea of headphones that deliver great sound, and don’t require anything other than a signal source to work, or batteries that need charging. Or cost nearly twice as much.
Even this isn’t really the problem; the real problem is that they deliver that scathing refrain in a way that implies (usually it’s not even implied but quite direcet) that you’re an idiot for thinking so.
Oh I know. People banging on about these things as if it's important. Don't look for ultimate fidelity, listen to what you like. Still, that's geeks for you. They keep the whole business going 🙂
