C'mon guys, youre arguing over a small detail thats relevent only if the 'hunting as pest control' is the main justification, which most people on the thread accept is not the case.
If its about culture and tradition then, why is a fox death the sticking point?
I mentioned the Hawick riding earlier- It isn't necessary to launch an actual cross-border raiding party resulting in the real deaths and injury of English people for that tradition to be marked, so why is it so for foxhunting?
Of course you can - its called selective breeding and it is precisely how the various breeds of dog are arrived at - you select the qualities you want and you breed towards it by only allowing dogs with your desired characteristics to breed.
Have you no basic understanding of selective breeding?
Fox hounds like all domesticated dogs are cross breeds bred to give certain characteristics. One of these characteristics you breed for is running speed - along with size and stamina and so on.
To quote what you said above
I found that the ENGLISH foxhound is [b]slower[/b] than the American one. The English Foxhound [b]was created by a careful mixing of [/b]the Greyhound, for speed, the Fox Terrier, for hunting instinct, and the Bulldog, for tenacity in the hunt.
During the Raj, Foxhounds were used for Jackal coursing and were used [b]instead of greyhounds to prolong the chase.[/b]
The fox hounds are/were bred for stamina and for picking up the scent.
Why not use a lurcher? for the as mentioned reasons of stamina obviousl. I have had lurchers that could flush a rabbit out using its nose but if you have ever hunted with lurchers you would know how easy they rip .. their skin is almost tissue like.
Holy fwuck it's still going! happy easter fella's!
Tj- surely to breed a slower you wouldn't put a greyhound in the mix? Anyhow you're boring me now. I'm off to gas some foxes.
[i]the dogs are bred so as to be only a small amount quicker that the prey. If they caught it in 2 minutes it wouldn't be much fun would it?[/i]
Hmmm, good fox hound dog weighs what? 20-25kg, it's been fed 3 squares a day all it's life, it's in tip top condition, and it can run pretty ****ing fast, given it's got long legs an' all. At best, a really good dog fox weighs in at about 5kg, probably hasn't had a decent meal it's entire life, and has little stubby legs. Who wants to bet on the outcome between a fox and a pack of hounds once it's flushed into the open? (the whole point of hunting) Any advance on 2mins?
The hunt, TJ, is the bit leading up to the bit where they flush it out into the open, that's the bit that takes the time.
Just for info like, not taking sides, or owt
This thread has got bogged down in too much scientific/statistical data.
The simple question is: In a civilised, modern country, should pervy toffs be able to get sexual pleasure from tormenting animals to death?
Correction to my last post:
I know it is perfectly possible for pervy toffs to extract sexual gratification from tormenting animals to death
I meant: should it be legal for said pervy toffs to obtain said pleasure?
I meant: should it be legal for said pervy toffs to obtain said pleasure?
Keep going; we'll get there in the end. 😀
Keep going; we'll get there in the end
Hi Fred
I think you'll find most great thinkers develop their ideas over time 😀
fox hunting is an expensive hobby, people pay thousands of pounds to ride with 'famous' hunts.
they would not do this if there were no foxes to chase - it is the job of a Hunt manager to make sure his patch is full of foxes.
anyone who thinks the current ban has stopped fox hunting needs to think again.
(apart from the bit about killing a fox) fox-hunting does look like lots of fun - i can see why people enjoy it; riding horses with your mates/ jumping hedges/ getting muddy/ etc. - is that so different from mountain biking?
foxes are chosen as the target because they provide so much entertainment: it wouldn't be half as much fun to chase a badger, and if the bovine-tb-ists are right, badgers kill as much (as many?) livestock as foxes.
i don't see a clear distinction between toffs who hunt foxes, and scallies tying fireworks to a cat (both are bad things ok?)
i also don't see a clear distinction between fox hunting, and KFC.
actually, in terms of animal welfare, cheap meat is possibly worse. I am a hypocrite, i eat cheap meat, and i complain about fox hunting.
i am genuinely ashamed of myself.
Not gonna read the whole thread, but my 2 pence worth is.
If your gonna ban it, ban all cruel sports and include Fishing and Shooting don't just go for the ones who have horses that stinks of class not doing it for the right reasons.
I once shot a bird when I was little and I've felt bad about it ever since.
i also don't see a clear distinction between fox hunting, and KFC.actually, in terms of animal welfare, cheap meat is possibly worse. I am a hypocrite, i eat cheap meat, and i complain about fox hunting.
i am genuinely ashamed of myself.
At least you can recognise it....
Hunting with dogs results in a healthier fox population than indiscriminate shooting, poisoning or trapping of foxes, as the old/slow/sick foxes tend to be the ones that get caught by the dogs. It's also a more reliably quick death than other methods. So despite appearances it remains the most humane way of controlling the population whilst also having economic upsides.
Likewise since hare coursing was banned more hares are being indiscriminately shot by farmers as there's no incentive to have them on their land - and likewise a fit healthy hare usually beats the greyhound.
Hunting with dogs results in a healthier fox population than indiscriminate shooting, poisoning or trapping of foxes, as the old/slow/sick foxes tend to be the ones that get caught by the dogs. It's also a more reliably quick death than other methods. So despite appearances it remains the most humane way of controlling the population whilst also having economic upsides
Ah the same old BS trooted out that is is somehow better for the foxes and that it is some sort of humanitarian pursuit you do to make things better for them rather than becaus eyou enjoy it. Is it true that to be chased across fields for extened periods of time fleeing for your life to eventually be caught by the pack and ripped apart by the hounds is indeed "quick" if you included the chase? 🙄
To enjoy killing something when you are not going to eat is is rather worrying trait toi see in any human.
The undefendable in pursuit of the unedible STILL
To enjoy killing something when you are not going to eat is is rather worrying trait to see in any human.
No one needs to eat meat, so how is eating meat defendable?
Hunting is wrong (mostly), we all know that, banning it though was a complete waste of parliaments time and the bill was political not in the interest of foxes. Like I say ban all hunting if you’re going to do it and include fishing!
The real shame is that Parliaments’ time could have been spent doing something much more effective in the time. Hunting hasn't stopped, the law changed very little. It was and is a stupid law irrespective of the rights and wrongs.
Now if the time had been used to push through a bill the guaranteed every child in the UK in poverty freedom from abuse and exploitation would anybody debate the rights and wrongs of that. Of course that won't happen cause that's a bit harder to execute.
