[Closed] Hunting - for or against?

Your name gives you away OP

I'd love to ride with a hunt.

Don't hold back with the name-calling peeps. 😀

Couldn't care less. It's a fox not a child.

It seems like poor legislation (if I've understood it correctly) - you can do exactly as before to flush out a fox to be shot as long as it's not your intention to let the hounds actually get it and kill it, but if the hounds [i]accidentally[/i] get it and kill it before you can stop them then that's not against the law.

(I appreciate my understanding of it may be wrong. I don't need to know it.)

There’s hunting and then there’s blood Sport.

Imho it’s not hunting if you’re not going to eat it.

It’s not hunting if the odds are stacked so far in your favour.

It’s not hunting if the end goal seems to be to dispatch your victim in the most gory and brutal way possible.

For hunting.

Against those people who dress up and ride on horses as you just know they're bellends of the highest order. Worse than roadies TBH.

Fox hunters are the scum of the earth. Anyone who enjoys chasing an animal to death for the pure 'fun/joy/pleasure' is a ****ing psycopath or at least has psycopathic tendencies.
I'll put some photo's up of the end result of a fox hunt if you like, some stomach turning ones. A live animal being ripped to shreds for the pleasure of so called human beings is not acceptable in todays society.
& yes I was brought up in the countryside, didn't have a problem with it until something clicked in my head. I don't have any problem whatsoever with anyone killing to eat, but do it as quick as you can & don't chase the poor bloody creature till it can't run anymore.
Boils my piss.

Definitely against

Strongly against!

Couldn't care less. It's a fox not a child.

Aren't human beings just marvellous.

For: hunting as a means of vermin control, for food and for species number control.

Against: toffs that ride around on horses baying an animal into a gruesome death for no reason other than a sick pleasure.

I can see me getting banned by this thread.

Maybe take yourself away. No good will come from this thread.

@ esselgruntfuttock: If you go, I'll go!

Against hunting for sport.

Hunting for food I have no issue with so long as the animal can be killed quickly and cleanly.

Hunting for population control I'd agree/disagree on a case by case basis but if it can't be done humanely (selectively, quickly and cleanly) then I'd likely be against.

Fox numbers need to be controlled with these numbers:

.222
.22-250
.223
.243
.308

Not with K9s.

Strongly against. Chasing and killing something "for fun" is inhumane. There's nothing wrong with going out on horseback for a nice canter around the country but to find joy in ripping apart another creature "just because" is sick.

Once a year hire a football stadium or 10, starve a few hundred nice dogs for a few days , then let them chase the hunters, if they accidently injure a hunter, its life,and they should have got private healthcare insurance for themselves.

Good money could be raised on betting and selling seats and tv coverage, it could even be called "TOFFS".

I used to go with my grandfather and shoot rabbits. Rabbit stew is amazing.
I have done a lot of fishing. All caught fish were eaten.
I have sent a jack russell into a barn full of rats as they were eating grain.
i am totally against fox hunting and killing anything for fun really makes me angry.

Me no, I don't understand how enjoyment can be derived from inflicting pain and suffering on an animal and I say that as someone who has participated in blood sports in the past as a youngster(driving on commercial pheasant shoots and ferretting). Living and working in a hill farming area I can see a need for pest control and can understand that often hounds are an effective tool in doing this, flushing and putting up a fox so that it can be dispatched in the most humane way possible but that something different or just dispersing cubs.

In my younger days I used to qualify point to pointers and rode out with a couple of packs in the midlands and aside from some of the farmers who had historically always hunted most of the mounted followers were pretty objectionable.

the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.
No issue if its for your food

However anyone who enjoys killing things and does it for fun [ shoot weekend for example] needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

I've seen first hand how fox hunters abuse private land and gardens, cause havoc with public transport and use hired thugs to impose their will on those wanting to protest.

strongly against, chasing an animal for fun to kill it is wrong.

In my younger days I used to qualify point to pointers and rode out with a couple of packs in the midlands and aside from some of the farmers who had historically always hunted most of the mounted followers were pretty objectionable.

Does the profession of those involved matter from a moral perspective?

Are you morally equivalent, better or worse than the “most” who you found objectionable?

I’ve ridden plenty of Hunts, attended plenty of Hunt Balls too 😆

I’ve ridden them pre the Ban and post the Ban. I have many friends who continue to ride Hunts since the Ban and they’re quite happy with the current rules around dragging scents. There are, like in most Groups or Societies, some proper right wing nut jobs and some proper left wing animal rights aficionados. Both enjoy Yomping on Horseback around a 25k course chasing “prey” whatever that form is.

However, whilst some see Country Sports as the epitome of Country Living there are plenty of people who support the Ban and continue to ride out. A Hunt is more about the tradition of a Group gathering together to Yomp rather than the “kill” being the end game of the gathering.

It may surprise you to know that many Hunt Supporters are actually animal rights activists, controversial it maybe.

I personally see no difference between the pre Ban and post Ban era, I’ve never seen any indiscretion in the post Ban era occur either.

However I’m a keen animal rights activist myself, and always have been. For me the Hunt was more about Yomping than the kill. Yet I’ve seen some pretty gruesome endings to Hunts where some humans really show thier true base nature of a Kill. Disgusting to the point of vomit and guilt for taking part, when the day out itself was properly enjoyable.

A abore killing for the sake of sport.

Sorry, forgot to say I still support the Ban and should it ever go to vote again I will continue to support the Ban.

Killing for fun? Pastime for Wierdos, posh folk and murderers.

For, but totally against breaking the law unless it is repealed.

Strongly against. Bunch of Tuesdays.

People in this country, in this day and age, don`t 'hunt' for anything other than to kill things for fun.

Even if you eat what you catch/kill ... your still doing so primarily for the fun of killing it yourself ... so your still getting fun/enjoyment from killing things.

Maybe take yourself away. No good will come from this thread.

Your'e dead right Anagallis. If it's one thing that wants to make me hurt another human it's stuff like this & people who support it.
I've shot rabbits, (but strangely only the ones with Mixy & with a .22 Anschutz 520) I've killed lots of sea fish for the table but seeing those poncy arsed shitbags careering around on horses dressed up to the nines & blatantly defying the law......I'd love to turn the tables & give some of those ****s a head start. 👿

If you're going to gut it and eat it I don't really have an issue.

If you are doing it for fun, then that's not OK.

If it's vermin then just shoot it/kill it as humanly possible.

Poor people go badger baiting and chase and rip deer apart with dogs during the night. Rich folk dress up and prance about on horseback ripping foxes to shreds with dogs. Both groups are scum but surprise surprise it's only the rich ones that get to have the laws on their side.

No problem with most hunting, but not this kind.

Not a class thing, no problem with people enjoying it either.
I like fishing.
I used to enjoy shooting live quarry.

I just think we've moved on.

Strongly against fox hunting with dogs and horses.

Does the profession of those involved matter from a moral perspective?

Are you morally equivalent, better or worse than the “most” who you found objectionable?

Oh much much worse at the time because I went along and participated in something, after thinking about it, I already found objectionable although qualifying p to p'ers was just a trot around the lanes but it was earning a living. The "most" had given it no thought at all and treated as something akin to the mounted wing of the masons.

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding. People criticising hunts for killing for fun, and yet the posters still eat meat. You don't need to eat meat, you do it because you like it, not because you need to. To put it another way, you eat meat because it is fun.

Have any of you pro carnivore anti hunt people ever been in an abatoire or seen the conditions that many farm animals are raised in?

If I had a choice between being raised on the horror of a modern farm and then being carted off in a lorry to the hell of a meat processing plant versus living free on the land for a few years followed by 45 minutes of abject terror and a gruesome ripping apart by a pack of hounds....

There's not really much to choose between them

Pulling a fox apart of with hounds after it’s ran to exhaustion, what’s not to love.

Bunch of ****s on horses.

Have any of you pro carnivore anti hunt people ever been in an abatoire or seen the conditions that many farm animals are raised in?

Yes I’m from farming and there are absolutely no comparisons.

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding.

Only matched by the leaps in your logic. 🙂

let me guess 'the generalist', your vegan with a man bun and only holiday in se asia?

Am pro hunting, if the quarry are tories

Less worried about fox hunting, objectionable as it is, than I am about grouse shooting and the environmental damage, flooding, and public cost (we subsidies it folks!) it brings. See Mark Avery's blog for some great discussion on it and some useful petition links.

People in this country, in this day and age, don`t 'hunt' for anything other than to kill things for fun.

Even if you eat what you catch/kill ... your still doing so primarily for the fun of killing it yourself ... so your still getting fun/enjoyment from killing things.

Don’t like it myself

Disgusting to the point of vomit and guilt for taking part, when the day out itself was properly enjoyable.

Maybe stop doing it then?

I'm all for blood sports providing there is some equality of opportunity. I'm not really one to get in with the fox hunting classes. But I would quite happily throw some Stella on the tele if I could see some fat track suited council estate chavs fighting their teeth sharpened pit bulls on the One Show. Some enterprising 'traveller' could sell me their YouTube channel with a gopro strapped to a hare. Equally I would watch unregulated bare knuckle strap yard boxing if Sky had the channel. Let's face it, the combatants would be scum and not far from animals anyway. It really flick's my nutsack that this should be the preserve of the entitled.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Disgusting to the point of vomit and guilt for taking part, when the day out itself was properly enjoyable.
Maybe stop doing it then?

Nah, it’s a nice day out. As I said. And since the Ban is in I’ve seen no Foxes killed for the sake of it, as I said. And I’ve not been on a Hunt for ohhhh..4 years, but I’d go on another.. as I said.

I have more of a problem with Grouse Shooting tbh..

The most barbarian type is the preserve of the entitled, I used to go fishing when I was young, that's hunting, I enjoyed it, but it wasn't about killing fish it was trying to catch them.
Letting a pack of dogs do the work is hardly hunting, it's just killing stuff for no reason.

we put them all back apart from when unfortunately occasionally the fish got hooked up badly. And the one time we caught a good rainbow trout so that ended up on the BBQ.

Does that make me a hypocrite? Maybe but I don't fish any more as I'm not entirely moraly comfortable with that unless I'm going to eat it.

Abatouir conditions bother me too, and I'll happily support any move to make them more humane even if it pushes prices up.

it seems the hounds keep 'accidentally' killing foxes

I thought there was more of a problem with ‘accidentally’ shooting ducks?

There was a documentary about it and everything

Looney toons 🙂

It's a shame we haven't obliterated this city boy past-time to the history books.

Proper country folk don't seem to be so keen either. Posh people on horse back using their friends estates for bloodsports seems more ****ryfile than countryfile.

But then there is the whole thing about stopping people enjoying what they like doing. But that's only about 5% of the concern here.

For: hunting as a means of vermin control, for food and for species number control.

Yeah, that's just bollocks. Two dozen hoorays on horseback with a pack of hounds in tow spending the afternoon ragging through the woods in order to kill a fox is clearly ineffective pest control.

A quick Google for numbers: Prior to the ban, hunting with hounds killed 25,000 foxes per annum - a smidge over six percent of the UK fox population. More get run over by cars. Two years [i]after[/i] the ban, [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6209365.stm ]320,000 people[/url] participated in traditional Boxing Day hunts. Even if we assume that hunting never happens the rest of the year, that's 13 people to kill one fox.

I don't doubt that to for someone of the appropriate mindset it's a fun and exhilarating sport which steeped in tradition. But it's just that, a sport, to dress it up as anything else is either naive or lying. If anyone enjoys it as a sport then fine, just have the stones to admit it. Hell, the very fact that it's so ineffective should be something they should be celebrating.

However I’m a keen animal rights activist myself, and always have been. For me the Hunt was more about Yomping than the kill.

Why not just go for a yomp then?

The thing about hunting with hounds is its deliberately cruel. the whole idea is to have a good chase so the hounds are not much faster than the fox. The fox is deliberately run to exhaustion then ripped apart by a pack of hounds

There is also no utility to fox hunting ie its a rubbish means of pest control and hunts often support local fox populoations by feeding them and providing dens.,

Finally "drag hunting" is simply a cover for illegal hunting

Before the hunters cry "townie" and "what do you know" I'll just point out some of my family run a chicken farm and have farmed that bit of land for many generations. They have a fox family living on the farm, the refuse to allow the local hunt onto their land and co exist quite happily.

Deer stalking is somewhat different. Its not needlessly cruel and therte is utili8ty in that deer numbers need to be controlled and stalking is effective. Its also a quick death and the meat gets eaten

Bird shooting varies from good practice to awful monoculture farms and raptor killers

Finally - yes I eat meat. I have killed animals to eat them personally. How many foxes get eaten by those who hunt them

Is it possible to be neither for or against ? Perhaps accept that others do things that "you" find objectionable but that they view things differently.
Being truly liberal is understanding this.

I'm against fox hunting ..not shooting though as pest control.
My sister in law keeps hens on their farm ..Ive seen the damage a fox can do..

In my experience the stereotype is wrong; they are not 'posh', just farmers out enjoying the countryside.

I have no time for foxes (a fox once killed 90% of a flock of battery hens we had rescued).

Foxes are cute vermin; would there be the same objections to hunting rats from horseback - if it were practical?

Most of the riders I know who hunt don't have any interest in the fox part. More about the ride. Would love to do the riding part but if you want to reduce fox numbers then shooting/trapping must be more effective?

The militant antis don't do much to calm the situation. You can see from the language on here that people are (intentionally?)creating an arguement that is going to cause confrontation rather than a solution. Bit like reading the comments section on a cycling article in the daily mail

Being truly liberal is understanding this.

Just no.

Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas. Yes that's Liberal, but if said behaviour is tantamount to torture of man or beast, it's not compatible, and thinking that is to twist and distort the spirit on a which the ideology is based upon.

Finally - yes I eat meat. I have killed animals to eat them personally. How many foxes get eaten by those who hunt them

You bring the foxes, I'll stick the BBQ on. Let's see if it tastes like chicken

However I’m a keen animal rights activist myself, and always have been. For me the Hunt was more about Yomping than the kill.

Most of the riders I know who hunt don't have any interest in the fox part. More about the ride.

If only there was a way I could go for a walk without punching people.

Bit like reading the comments section on a cycling article in the daily mail

Utter bollocks. Some car drivers may view cyclists with some kind of malice, but I'd be very supprised if any of them specifically go for a drive with the sole intention of killing someone riding a bike, if they did they'd be sectioned.

Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas. Yes that's Liberal, but if said behaviour is tantamount to torture of man or beast, it's not compatible.

Won't argue on this, so this will be my last post on the thread. I agree that there can be limits to what is or isn't acceptable. But using your limits as to what is acceptable and expecting everyone to agree isn't being liberal. Society as a whole has to come to agreement. My hope is that in time attitudes towards fox hunting amongst those that do it gradually change, and it eventually dies out.

Its just a blood sport like Dog fighting etc but because the participants are wealthy its ok.

Worse in my opinion is the killing of 20,000 Badgers in support of the Dairy industry.

Morally criminal and paid for out of UK taxes.

Having seen how foxes are controlled without hunting I'd rather they hunted. No fox has ever chewed it's own leg off to get out of a hound, or slowly died after being hit in the guts by one.

Some of you must go bonkers about chicken farms, milking cows, zoos etc then!

Society as a whole has to come to agreement.

Not trying to pick an argument no worries, but society as a whole has come to the the agreement that fox hunting in the 'traditional' manner is inhumane, and thus illegal.

Having seen how foxes are controlled without hunting I'd rather they hunted. No fox has ever chewed it's own leg off to get out of a hound, or slowly died after being hit in the guts by one.

That's twisting the debate, bear traps are also moraly reprehensible, shooting them if they are endangering livestock is acceptable, assuming if you're a bad shot you'll finish the job rather than let it limp off and bleed out.

Driving past a hunt when the kids are in the car with me is the biggest crisis of temper control I can think of.
‘Mummy, why did Daddy just beep the horn constantly while shouting out of the window about punts on horseback?’

It’s a ****ing evil past time. My local MP, the right horrible Simon Hart, get paid a decent annual salary by the Countryside Alliance to further their twisted cause in parliament.
He should be given a tail and chased though the ****ing fields.

I don’t like hunting.

Edit: just removed some words the swear filter doesn’t know! Sorry.

Fox hunting is just bollox. There can be no defending it surely.

Can’t really see fox hunting with dogs and horses ever being effective in terms of hours per fox.

Some of you must go bonkers about chicken farms, milking cows, zoos etc then!

Dairy in particular probably catches a lot out.

Hunting to remove vermin with rifle( or alternate humane ish method) ok... poisoning and leaving to die in pain.. not ok.. chasing vermin on horseback and ripping it to death not ok.

Trophy hunting not ok..

Spending hundreds of dollars on deer corn, then months feeding deer and enticing them to one spot. When deer season starts sitting in a hide at that one spot is also pointless. It takes longer, costs more and is far less efficient than just going to the deer farm for you meat. There is no skill other than not killing yourself while drunk on the way home...

Foxes are cute vermin; would there be the same objections to hunting rats from horseback - [b]if it were practical?[/b]

That's precisely the issue I have with it being presented as pest control. It's simply not practical.

If it took 13 men to kill one rat annually, it'd raise serious questions as to a) its efficacy and b) their motives. The practice would stop overnight unless it was also fun.

I found a mouse in the house the other day. If I'd called Rentokil and a dozen blokes rocked up with a pack of dogs rather than simply a bloke with a few mousetraps I'd have thought that they'd lost their marbles.

No fox has ever chewed it's own leg off to get out of a hound, or slowly died after being hit in the guts by one.

They don’t need to the hounds rip them off and they can often die slowly afterwards.

weeksy - Member
Some of you must go bonkers about chicken farms, milking cows, zoos etc then!

I'm a go-getting Millenial, not an animal rights activist. There's simply not enough time in my day to worry about all those sorts of things. But foxes are cute animals, and hunters are rich and Tory; I certainly don't mind taking five minutes to share anti-hunt propaganda on Facebook for the cause.

That's twisting the debate, bear traps are also moraly reprehensible, shooting them if they are endangering livestock is acceptable, assuming if you're a bad shot you'll finish the job rather than let it limp off and bleed out.

Nope. Trapping and shooting are both prone to error and they are now the norm.

A pack of dogs is a highly inefficient but very binary.

Hunting for food - fine

Hunting because you're paying to do it or think it's sport or tradition......bollocks

I don't care if it's a fox or a lion, do you need to hunt it to survive or because you need to feed your tribe?

And lets face it, it's the dogs that are doing the hunting, the toffs are just there to quaff champagne and beat the stable boys.

My sister in law keeps hens on their farm ..Ive seen the damage a fox can do..

We had chickens whe we were young and my parents continued until a few years ago, they well protected correctly from the foxes so they never got it in to a free meal provided.

If you do pinched food off you plate while you were out of the room would go out and hunt all dogs just because you left food out?

I did go for a Yomp, a drag Yomp.

Can’t see any problem with that, but I’m sure you’ll find a hole in that.. I said that in my comments above.

Pro hunt, don't vote Tory and certainly don't ride a horse!!
What will you want to ban next?

@wilburt^^^
Completely agree that the mass slaughter of badgers in the pretence that they are largely responsible for bovine TB is far worse.
Lived in rural North Notts for several years - friend & neighbours were hunt enthusiasts; I wouldn't describe any of them as wealthy or posh - possibly tory.
Great subject for polarisation and generalisations.

Hunting with dogs is banned, so be it. It's part of our history and now part of the past.

The hunt sab activity appears to be more class war than animal rights activism. Its almost at the level of the bad old days of organised football hooliganism. There are plenty of other groups out there organising dog fights, cock fights, digging out badgers etc etc that don't seem to attract the same level of "anti" activism