[Closed] HR Legal advice Please... getting rid of dodgy staff

Do you work for an electrical wholesaler?

No, he does not. I'm no internet stalkervthis is from a thread that he started recently:

I'm a sales manager for a company that installs medical gasses and alarms behind beds in hospitals

Further to this, your name, location etc are all publicly available. I'm not sure what motivation people would have for this, but the internet can be an unfriendly place and it wouldn't take much for someone to connect the dots and you end up in a very awkward position..

Really, it is time to pull the thread.

Agreed. I appreciate that the OP has been lacking support from his management and because of that he's reaching out for advice on here, but it would be best for his sake if the OP takes what advice has been given and has the thread removed.

2) He won't find it on here, there's no link to my employer in my profile and this fella has absolutely no chance of finding this.

It doesn't matter, it's still totally unprofessional.

just like when someone posts up about BMW, Audi etc the envy mongers come out of their cave's and start getting personal because they got shit jobs and drive shit cars.......

Oh dear.

Do you work for an electrical wholesaler?

Oh can I reveal some information about you?
Glass houses and all that

just like when someone posts up about BMW, Audi etc the envy mongers come out of their cave's and start getting personal because they got shit jobs and drive shit cars

You had my sympathies OP but frankly now I dont see how anyone can help you

You have had some unfair grief on this thread from folk but really 🙄

To be fair, you do come across like a massive, massive cock.

I want to rip him a new arsehole and send him home on the train on Monday with his notice in his pocket and a week's compensation for not having access to his company car

It's little wonder he's taking the piss out of you.

heir 'old family firm' of solicitors have left me in a position where they won't give an opinion either way. I thought that the plethora of STW armchair lawyers would have come up with something

I'm a real lawyer.

I'm not going to give legal advice on this thread as (a) you're not my client and (b) I'm not an HR lawyer.

My general advice is simple: go and find an employment lawyer who can give you proper advice as you're flailing in the dark here.

In reality, you need to agree a course of action with your employer - train or get rid. Then seek advice that can help you with that. It'll only cost a few grand, which is cheaper than cocking this up.

See, I managed that without any reference to car manufacturers or thowing my toys out of the pram. But I will say that you need to examine your limitations and get some training/skills in areas you are responsible for but clearly know nothing about.

But I will say
that you need to examine your limitations
and get some training/skills in areas you
are responsible for but clearly know
nothing about.

True - so often a top performing sales person finds themselves in a "management" role with no training or support, something sadly overlooked further up the food chain. There's often an unrealistic expectation from bosses that you can magically create an army of "mini me"s........

Well worth getting this situ sorted then pushing for more support I reckon.

Good luck with it.

I'm sorry,
But I'm with Scott Mc with this one.

I'd also expect a better standard of written English from someone in a senior management position. Putting an apostrophe in 'caves', deary me. 😛

As a manager you have to assist him offer advice and see what issues are troubling him. Maybe there's something at home, maybe no one has explained the role he's doing properly to him or how it's supposed to work. This is what you are here for, it's all great shouting "sack the bastard" but it's not that easy. If it does come to that then you have my sympathy, I've had to instigate the disciplinary route more than once and one of those lead to full dismissal. It's horrible, it took up best part of 3 years of my life and still comes back to bite me. Your staff will turn on you, you'll be questioned from many parties about your reasons why, you'll wonder how the guy is going to pay his bills, you'll wonder what effect it's had on his family. Then if you ever see him it's an awful thing, the expression they give you makes you feel cold. Trust me it's the last route you want to go down no matter how posh your car is.

geordiemick00 - Member

3)Why should I resign from my job??

No need to. At work you will [b]find maggots all over on both sides[/b] so y[b]ou might a good manager but your subordinates might be bunch of maggots vice versa[/b].

Okay ... used to be in HR long long time ago ...

1. Intention. To fire someone you need to adopt the politically correct mindset (especially in the UK). i.e. to be seen as helping or giving the person plenty of chances to improve. Usually incorporating certain realistic programme(s) for that person. Who knows you might be able to really turn a person around in a good way.

Is this a bloody bike forum or an "introduce yourself, what car you drive and what your job is" forum. Either you've all got tiny dicks or you really love talking about your jobs way* too much. Get off the computer, swing your fat legs over your bicycle and stop ranting about your employees on an internet thread.

3)Why should I resign from my job?? I've come on here for opinions as the company I work for have left me in a position because their 'old family firm' of solicitors have left me in a position where they won't give an opinion either way. I thought that the plethora of STW armchair lawyers would have come up with something but instead, just like when someone posts up about BMW, Audi etc the envy mongers come out of their cave's and start getting personal because they got shit jobs and drive shit cars.......

Because you're a terrible manager and you appear to have been born without a backbone. Take the bloody thread down and 'deal' with it professionally. And this isn't about envy mongers... i'm pretty sure no one would want to work with you, that's for sure - It's about you being a pretentious dick talking about your "employees" (if they really exist) behind their back on a public forum (a bike one too I may add) saying how terrible they are. Ironic really when you're accusing him of being unprofessional.

Is this a bloody bike forum or an "introduce yourself, what car you drive and what your job is" forum.

It's a chat forum, the Bike forum is the other one.

[quote=nukeproofriding ]Is this a bloody bike forum or an "introduce yourself, what car you drive and what your job is" forum. ....
Actually, this is the CHAT forum, so nothing to do with bikes at all.

It's a chat forum, the Bike forum is the other one.

Still can't believe this hasn't been taken down.

Has anyone reported it? Anyone asked for it to be taken down?

Of course, I could have reported your use of the word "bullshit", but I don't feel the need to.....

Of course, I could have reported your use of the word "bullshit", but I don't feel the need to.....

nukeproofriding - Member
Get off the computer, swing your fat legs over your bicycle and stop ranting about your employees on an internet thread.

Is anyone else sensing some AWESOME here?

Is anyone else sensing some AWESOME here?

For a moment there i thought it was just me!

To quote some more management BS, I have a sense of Deja poo

If it makes your day... go for it.

I don't feel the need to....

Nukeproofriding, so if we start to talk about bikes in the chat forum, what do we talk about in the bike forum? Cheese? Do you even know where the bike forum is? As you've never posted in there? In fact you've only ever posted in this one thread!

Now, do the decent thing, what you have been promising to do, and (insert word/phrase of choice here) off.

Do you even know where the bike forum is? As you've never posted in there? In fact you've only ever posted in this one thread!

Hadn't noticed that....

Perhaps he's a stressed out salesman who misses targets and has done a bit of googling about his manager, trying to find a bit of dirt, found a link to his stw profile and looked in on a few of his managers posts..... Uh oh...

It's still a part of singletrackworld, which is... a bike forum.

Noooo! It's the Chat Forum, it was setup for people to talk about such things as there is a little community here so people often ask for advice. It hasn't been taken down as it does not break any rules and so far until late it hasn't been too bad with insult so no need for it to be closed.

Agreed.

it hasn't been too bad with insult so no need for it to be closed.

I could help with that by calling the OP a ****ing cockknocker with **** all sense who appears to be in a management position without being able to manage his staff?

Surely cockknocker needs to be on the swear filter?

okay.. you ve found yourself in a situation and need help to manage a way out.

firstly get the guy in for a formal interview, tell him in advance that its about supporting him achieve his sales targets..

ask him in and ask these questions..

how do you think you are doing
how can we help you more
get someone to note and log these questions and answers.

then

tell him you ve identified that he needs support planning his day so each friday ask him to e mail you with his diary for the next week before noon and then to email you am with his appts that day and each pm with his appts completed

thatll help him forward plan and you know what and where he is

you can check if hes been as each appt will be a sale..

agree with him targets for each week going forward make then equalt to about 60% of his annual target

ask him for his weekly totals to be email to you by noon each friday

let that run for 28 days.. failure to stick to it.. written warning.. failure to fulfill agreed abjectives..

after your meeting next week put all that in a nice flowery letter emphasising how this is to help him how you ve listened and agreed a plan etc etc

three things will likely happen..

he wont come in as he is stressed, he sell a tonne of stuff or he wont 3 months will give him opportunity to prove his worth or dig his grave

Surely cockknocker needs to be on the swear filter?

Of course not. Only a cockknocker would think that.

perhaps the OP has read this thread, [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/executive-time-managament ]http://singletrackworld.executive-time-managament[/url], and is in the process of building [s]a group of yes men[/s] a good team around himself*.
* I believe this is the correct business term.

totalshell - perfect. Exactly the way to do it. End of the day, he's failing so by offering all the tools and support, he'll either raise his game or give a decent excuse to sack him without fear of recourse.

Something that has been overlooked is the negative effect on a sales team if they have a 'passenger' - hits morale very quickly.

Secondly, a sales manager will usually have part of their wages paid as an override of their team's revenues against target. If this rep is underperforming seemingly through lack of care, he is directly hitting his manager's take home pay so IMO the OP has every right to feel aggvrieved.

Nukeproofriding, so if we start to talk about bikes in the chat forum, what do we talk about in the bike forum? Cheese? Do you even know where the bike forum is? As you've never posted in there? In fact you've only ever posted in this one thread!

Now, do the decent thing, what you have been promising to do, and (insert word/phrase of choice here) off.

honestly, I can't believe how many assumptions have been made in four pages. I've inherited a complete ****tard of a salesman who's been left to his own deceitful devices by my firm who basically have no management. The owner is retired to the golf course and in the space of two months I've stepped in to manage £5m of business that has all landed at once and in the process deal with this fella in question.

My mis-management/lack of management isn't the reason why he's where he is, he's there because he's been allowed to draw a wage for the last 12 months and effectively take the piss.

Well said. Let me know how you get on.

the ethernet cable for my xbox is broken.

I see.

All your arguments have now been rendered invalid, on account of you being 14. Now run along, your mum has just said your dinner is ready. Be sure to give her a kiss from me.

Unfortunately G.Mick this place is full of ****tards (clearly demonstrated by SOME of the replies to this thread) so I would advise you to take the advice from the helpful genuine posts on here and seek professional help.

You prob don't want to listen to me though as I have an Xbox too (but am 32 not 14) What was I saying about ****tards.....Right back to call of duty. Good luck anyway mate.

I see.

All your arguments have now been rendered invalid, on account of you being 14. Now run along, your mum has just said your dinner is ready. Be sure to give her a kiss from me.

Likewise. Dig out your receipts because your sense of humour is broken. Oh, a mum joke. How original, what year are you stuck in? You work for a borough council don't you? You sound like a barrel of laughs! I bet you have some brilliant parties! Fondu followed by some rebellious pictionary? Oh my!

Unfortunately G.Mick this place is full of ****tards (clearly demonstrated by SOME of the replies to this thread) so I would advise you to take the advice from the helpful genuine posts on here and seek professional help.

You prob don't want to listen to me though as I have an Xbox too (but am 32 not 14! What was I saying about ****tards.....

Us xbox owners have an inferior dna strain that subjects us to a life of childishness and automatically invalidates everything we say. It's true.

this place is full of ****tards (clearly demonstrated by SOME of the replies to this thread) so I would advise you to take the advice from the helpful genuine posts on here and seek professional help.

For someone who has only just [s]re[/s]joined the forum, you seem to have formed an opinion very quickly.....

honestly, I can't believe how many assumptions have been made in four pages. I've inherited a complete ****tard of a salesman who's been left to his own deceitful devices by my firm who basically have no management. The owner is retired to the golf course and in the space of two months I've stepped in to manage £5m of business that has all landed at once and in the process deal with this fella in question.

Welcome to the world of adulthood and thus responsibility. Grow a pair and deal with it the right way. That's what separates those who are and aren't "****tards". Currently you are just as much the former as your "employee".

great to see 'office' folk squabbling 😆

great to see 'office' folk squabbling

This would be funny if it wasn't about someone's life/future. Maybe not the ideal place to assassinate someone who can't defend himself. That's sales for you l suppose

nukeproofriding - what a ghastly creature you are, why not go back under your bridge.

Sales-- very self important, specialist language, dirty tricks, stab vests needed front and rear, no wonder years of working in that environment turns you into a willy loman !

nukeproofriding - what a ghastly creature you are, why not go back under your bridge.

CG you are doing a disservice to ghastly creatures.

What a vitriol-filled thread. Haven't seen one like it for a wee while.

Totalshell has it.

GM00- I feel for you. I'm a sales engineer for a big telco and I see the damage these hangers-on can do. You need to manage him out, and soon. You also need to send someone good and trustworthy round customers (existing and potential) he has had proven contact with, as soon as. Having had to clear up the technical messes these idiots can cause when unsupervised, you need to know what he's been talking to them about.

CG you are doing a disservice to ghastly creatures.

😆

I'm laughing at the new guy bit....

got a neck that needs oiling, so i'm ooot 8)

@Geordeimick - sounds like the better decision would be for you to take control of the situation by finding yourself a better employer (if the owner doesn't GAF as you suggest). Leave them to their devices.

That is, AFAICT, the one great thing about working in sales: you guys walk in and out of jobs without much trouble.

Rest of us just clear up the mess.... 😉

I'm laughing at the new guy bit....

It's because you aren't new.

But you knew that.

...and I notice you've added a location; That London, and you suggest that you ride downhill too.

Not new.

I am new. LOL i've never been a member on here before. Oh wait, maybe it was my alter ego? Maybe i've been on here in a sleep walk - I apologise for anything my (non existent) alter ego may have done wrong.

Yes I live near London and yes I've ridden downhill for about 3 years. Any other questions grand inquisitor?

This thread is very revealing indeed. It confirms geordiemick has has a big steaming poo dumped in his lap, and that he needs some support / guidance.
More importantly it reveals that nukeproofthingie is someone who has opinions formed before his join date and is probably best ignored.

excuse me?

I'll say it again ...

nukeproofriding - what a ghastly creature you are, why not go back under your bridge.

And give us a break from spouting crap. 🙄

excuse me?

I'll say it again ...

nukeproofriding - what a ghastly creature you are, why not go back under your bridge.

And give us a break from spouting crap.

I don't understand why you would latch on to me when I was essentially arguing the same point as you... but I guess anything you say goes around here because you are a girl?

Please give me a genuine reason for me being a ghastly creature and why i'm guessing you are inferring that i'm a troll. Is this something to do with crikey thinking I used this forum before or?...

Give me a break from your malformed opinions, your pseudo intellectual use of Shakespearean English made me throw up a little into my mouth lol. "ghastly creature"?

Good luck geordiemick, sounds a bit shite.

The bit that baffles me is how the hell do you break an ethernet cable. They always seem pretty robust to me?

It was bitten through by my dog during a half hour of fireworks where I live dave.. Fascinating isn't it. What baffles me is why you're so interested in jumping on the bandwagon? Another big man. :p

Now someone delete this character assassination thread?

Now someone delete this character assassination thread?

I've reported it. I really didn't want to because I knew I'd get [i]some[/i] stick for it and there'd be a decent amount of conclusion jumping but at best it's now becoming a bitch fest.

THANK YOU to all those who posted respectful replies and were intelligent enough to realise I've been handed a sick pup.

I've reported it. I really didn't want to because I knew I'd get some stick for it and there'd be a decent amount of conclusion jumping but at best it's now becoming a bitch fest.

THANK YOU to all those who posted respectful replies and were intelligent enough to realise I've been handed a sick pup.

Do you not feel that what you said was even just a little bit out of line? You shouldn't have said it in the first place, let alone on a public forum. Your post didn't deserve any respectful replies because of the way you talked about this bloke.

To be fair, you do come across like a massive, massive cock.

I want to rip him a new arsehole and send him home on the train on Monday with his notice in his pocket and a week's compensation for not having access to his company car
It's little wonder he's taking the piss out of you.

Guys, if you think the OP is bad you should try cheffing in a Michelin star restaurant. Oh the stories! You've never had a bad boss until you've been punched in the face by one or been branded with a hot poker.

Anyway, to the OP, can I have his job? I'll do it for 15k+ and a car for the first year, rising after a year. I'm often told I'm a persuasive person, I scrub up well and I have a public school boy accent (it must be good if a posh persons selling it to you? right! ), I reckon I'd be good at this sales thing.

Seriously, 15k+ and a car and I'll be more focused and loyal than a Gurkha. My multiple part time contracts are starting to irritate me.

So who is/was nukeproofriding then ?

Just come out and say it !

Nahhh, it's not me.

So who is/was nukeproofriding then ?

Just come out and say it !

I is/was nukeproofriding now and 'then'. What of it? I am here, I am me.

Quit smoking pot. Hippy.

Quit smoking pot. Hippy.

Recent graduate in Medical Science, having been a student I'm a recovering social defect. My head doesn't reside in a cavity (unless I'm going down on a woman)... my brain does though if that's what you mean.

I think you're a bit of a chav if I must say.

[img] [/img]

The guy cant even do the basics?

20yrs experience?

Did his old employer carry him or are his last company/figures a work of fiction.

Who checked his references?

nukeproofriding has a point.

BTW have you gone through a formal proceedure? Warning letters, meetings? Saved correspondance?

Unless its gross misconduct you cant heave him out tomorrow. You need to give him an action plan, time to improve.