[Closed] How's this gym workout for weight loss?

Well I'd fall over otherwise...?

I was thinking of measuring my ankle to knee, knee to hip and hip to shoulder lengths and building a model to analyse my geometry as with the guy and his mechanical model. This work out what angle I would expect to lean forward for with a back squat at varying loads...

How do I know this, well learning this cost me £220 for a new Olympic Bar at my gym (I insisted on replacing it for such a school boy error). The stool was completely unmarked even with 120kg dumped on it.

Heh

I'll bet a few gym folk were put off their stroke with that racket. I squat in a rack these days - less to think about for me, allows me to focus on the move.

I hit the weight with good form on Wednesday so last Friday and Monday's semi-good mornings were probably just lack of focus and sleep. Been feeling a bit mentally knackered recently but all the stuff about lifting on this thread obviously forced me to get a grip.

bone oedema

If you don't mind being candid, what's that all about...?

I probably squat at half that tempo or less, even with light weights.

Me, too. I drop all the way down - arse to the grass style and pause briefly at the bottom - but I'm super flexible.

I'd post up a vid tp show how deep I can get but I've just had a look through and all I have is an old 40kg squat from quite a while back and it'd get pulled in an instant as I'm only wearing underwear.

I wouldn't call it easy, but it's a weird thing. I'm not really tired after any of this - nothing aches, but my limit is going to be reached before long in the squats and already in the overhead press. Only just managed to get 5x5 in that and yet my arms feel like I did nothing.

I don't get aching either.* I did last year but I think a good diet can sort this. That and some decent sleep - I think it all makes a massive difference to how you feel and lift. Also, I used to do shakes but only use them if I'm time poor now. That greek yogurt breakfast I listed on the other page contains almost 45g of protein and fills me much more than a shake. A few more calories but worth it. Steak is also good, topped with poached egg as suggested on that other thread.

*Injuries notwithstanding. I have a dull ache in the clavicular portion of the chest which gives a bit of gyp now and again when benching.

el_boufador » really enjoying also the diet side of it an understanding / experimenting on how my body responds to stuff!

Yeah, likewise. Even more so now I'm trying to bulk a bit and having to tuck away a fair old bit. mmmm

I drop all the way down - arse to the grass style and pause briefly at the bottom - but I'm super flexible

I can go all the way down, and I did originally cos I find it slightly easier, but some internet said that it wasn't worth going lower than parallel...

I just don't feel like it's doing much for me when I half squat. Dropping so my heels touch my arse [i]feels[/i] to me like I'm using more of my lower torso to get back up.

I was under the impression that going beyond parallel was the desired movement. I'm interested in having a read of some internet stuff if you have it to hand.

There's mountains on the internet. This seems reasonable though:

There are few exercise topics that incite as much debate as what constitutes the correct depth for a squat. One school of thought counsels you should only descend until your thighs are parallel to the floor – any deeper and the likelihood is your knees will explode. Another sneers at any squat where your hamstrings don’t cosy up to your calves.

The truth is neither side is right. Forget depth. Your back is what matters. You should squat no lower than the point where your hip begins to tuck under and you lose the natural arch in your lower spine.

I can get all the way down with a straight back. So I might get back to that. I find it a little easier cos there's a little rest at the end, whereas stopping parallel I have to decelerate the weight with my muscles and then accelerate upwards again.

Well - just took a second selfie, the first was taken when I'd been at the gym for maybe 4 weeks but just as I started stronglifts. So nearly 8 weeks between pics. The difference is...

.. not there at all. I look absolutely identical in both pics 🙂

6 pack is made in the kitchen... 😉

I can go all the way down, and I did originally cos I find it slightly easier, but some internet said that it wasn't worth going lower than parallel..

Well it's definitely harder going lower, so if you can then so so.

The load on knees / muscles changes as the angle does:

[img] [/img]

Going lower makes your Glutes work harder as your quads are quite disadvanted below parallel and can't contribute so much.

bone oedema

If you don't mind being candid, what's that all about...?

A novice snow boarder lost control on a Blue slope and took me out from behind. I fell onto my shoulder on icy ground and it did a fair bit of damage. 4 months on it's a lot better, but still a 40% tear in a tendon, bone oedema and an inflamed bursa. No external rotation and limited overhead range of motion.

Impact site is quite clear in the MRI

[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/34404885176_02738143b7.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/34404885176_02738143b7.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/Uqf2Hs ]Shoulder MRIa[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

Interesting graph footflaps, but that sort of backs up the point that going lower doesn't make any differece to what's going on? Assuming 90 degrees refers to knee angle and not angle with vertical...

You would be doing more work though simply by moving the weight further.

If you just touch parallel then you're only just maximally tasking the Glutes for a tiny moment. If you want to properly train them, you need to go lower (or do another glute specific exercise).

A good article on partial vs full range exercises:

https://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/perspectives/partial-squats/

One graph from the article

[img] ?resize=1024%2C1024&ssl=1[/img]

They're well worth following on FB, put up loads of good stuff on weight training.

NB My main Glute exercise is barbell weighted walking lunges - kills my glutes. I used to do overhead, but now just do back squat walking lunges (due to a duff shoulder). Overhead is a much better overall workout though...

I do mine in the garden on a sunny day...

Do I really care tho?

I'm only doing this

a) for the general physiological benefits of weight training as have been documented
b) it might help my cycling

Seems to be doing b) from what I can tell.

Do I really care tho?

Up to you really. Personally I want to maximise the benefit from any training I do, so if a small change makes a difference, I'll make that change. Also, I like to understand why I'm doing it and how it's working, not just follow a plan blindly.

Re cycling, the main crossover I notice is my acceleration from zero on the single speed, I have so much more power available now and can just accelerate off the mark way quicker than I used to.

It seems easier to do the steep climbs for me. So I can do them at a lower level of exertion, which means can ride my steep local trails and be less trashed which means I end up eating less.. or at least that's how it seems.

That may not stand up to physiological scrutiny, but it feels that way for now. It'll be interesting to see if it helps me do the 5-6hr rides on the even hillier terrain.

b) it might help my cycling

Try doing barbell step-ups onto a block just above knee height.

Try doing barbell step-ups onto a block just above knee height

Very similar movement pattern to a walking lunge...

Precisely.

(basically forcing him to go below parallel)

A novice snow boarder lost control on a Blue slope and took me out from behind. I fell onto my shoulder on icy ground and it did a fair bit of damage. 4 months on it's a lot better, but still a 40% tear in a tendon, bone oedema and an inflamed bursa. No external rotation and limited overhead range of motion.

Nasty. Shame about the shoulder limitations. An injury in that area would drive me nuts.

Good luck with recovery.

I like to understand why I'm doing it and how it's working, not just follow a plan blindly.

Likewise. I started quite naive just going through the motions and focusing on form without really thinking about the benefits but I'm a little more clued up with that now and know exactly what I want to achieve and how to do so.

I love lifting weights and combining it with some explosive stuff - I can get a good body that's totally functional in daily tasks, too. It's replaced cycling for me at the moment.

Well, I've given up on squats every time. I think they're causing some sort of muscle imbalance that's causing the knee pain.. and now I can feel my patella tracking out of line again.

So it's two sessions of deadlifts to one of sqauts on a three session rotation, and I'm trying leg extensions on a machine to see if it helps the knee.

Also trying 3x10 rather than 5x5. Deadlifts much more satisfying.

Deadlifts much more satisfying.

I have a love hate thing with them. They keep putting my QL muscle into spasm on one side, been going on for years. I almost dread doing them now. Got to within 2kg of 2xBW last year, but can't get close now without the QL going into spasm, which puts me out of lifting heavy for a couple of days.

Interesting. I must get an endorphin rush off it or something because I do enjoy it. I did 3x10 80kg last night.

When you quote 2xBW are you just talking one rep absolute max?

I'll run tonight having not squatted for nearly two weeks and also stretched my quads. See how that goes.

If you were training 3 days then big deadlifts are a once a month exercise.
If i do a couple of warm up sets and then 3 sets of 150kg then a 1rm of 160 @ 60kg bodyweight then i am busted for 3-4 weeks before doing it all again.
I'm on instagram if anyone is interested in my training @fiftyplusfit

Well, I've given up on squats every time. I think they're causing some sort of muscle imbalance that's causing the knee pain.. and now I can feel my patella tracking out of line again.

I followed the Stronglifts programme which started really light, something like 40kg. I couldn't find any reference online to squats causing problems with running, but there's a definite correlation between that and the knee problem I hadn't had for years.

It might also just be a tightening up which could just be me - I've also started stretching my quads with the traditional hold the ankle to your bum pose. That may also have helped - I'll try a run tonight.

You're definitely 'hench', Twinwall. Those veins are awesome superhero stuff, too.

Like this pic and accompanying text...

[i]Here was going to be an AWeSoMe picture of me deadlifting two and a half times bodyweight, unfortunately the person, (not to be named) even though they insisted they had the shot, did not have the shot, so here's me getting creative. [/i]

[img] [/img]

Careful... you might get accused of virtue signalling or somesuch... 🙂

Patella pain is more than likely tight calf muscle, do calf raises and stretch it/foam roller.

How's the weight loss?

The big problem is with outside of knee - could be ITB, could be some other mystery tendon.

How's the weight loss?

Lost a little before my holiday.. waist is slightly narrower though.

When you quote 2xBW are you just talking one rep absolute max?

yep, I normally do a 5x5 style ramp eg 5x70, 5x90, 5x100, 5x110, 5x120, 5x130 and then singles / doubles up from there eg 2x140, 1x150, 1x155, 1x160 etc

Although I've not got past 1x140 recently due to the QL thing....

I would only do deadlifts once a week though, too much load on CNS to do more often.

If i do a couple of warm up sets and then 3 sets of 150kg then a 1rm of 160 @ 60kg bodyweight then i am busted for 3-4 weeks before doing it all again.

My body doesn't work like that at all, anything over a 1 week rest and I can't get anywhere near max for squats or deadlifts. I have to lift heavy at least once a week to be able to maintain max strength.

I'm at ease with my lack of sexuality. 🙂

If you are having issues with squat depth etc, worth reading or rereading Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

The only thing I have slight issue with in it is around toe position. If you are training for cycling (or field sports) then toes forward is better than having then splayed out at 30 degrees. If you're not bothered about cycling performance then 30 degree splay is great.

I can get all the way down with a straight back

Front squat is different obviously.

worth reading or rereading Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe.

He's very dogmatic / rigid and takes no account of people's varying limb lengths. There are much wiser resources out there (see vids I posted a couple of pages back).

When you lot were grunting away at 2x BW did you find it helped your cycling? Or are they not complimentary activities?

Last year before the op and massive calorie deficit experiment I'd ridden my bike about twice before hooking up with mate for a local blast that starts with a hill climb. I flew up without much effort - even tempted to say it was easier than before I started lifting but, tbh, by comparison I was weak as piss before the weights though I was no slouch when it came to moving heavy objects. I was 71kg then and deadlifting 140kg (160 1RM) so not quite 2xBW but close enough.

Contrary to this...

I would only do deadlifts once a week though, too much load on CNS to do more often.

...I was doing it twice a week on alternate weeks for sometime and am doing the same now. Perhaps 140kg just isn't heavy enough to stress the CNS but I reached that weight again this week and it doesn't look like slowing any time soon so I guess I'll see.

As for the squat - have a look at Candito's 9 week squat programme. Some of the accessory stuff is quite helpful for a more balanced development. Sumo deadlifts, for example - good for me after the hernia op as they're working my weaker areas. Check it out, it's all grist to the mill and something to try when you get bored. His bench programme is worth a look, too.

Presumably CNS means central nervous system?

Interesting concept.

Yes.

To correct what I wrote above - obviously the weights are 'stressing' my CNS but not enough to over cook it, so to write.

No doubt in a few weeks time I'll be on a different forum asking why I can't even lift a cuppa, brah...

The problem with all the advice your getting is it's from folk who aren't you. Go to the gym, do stuff, preferably without injuring yourself and learn from experience. Don't be afraid to try new things, if they work for you, great, if not, ditch em.
Training with weights and bodyweight training is a learned skill, patience is the key.
If your going to the gym just to lose weight then you are doomed to fail, you have to love training to truly get the best from it.
I'm currently training the one arm pull up, i'm not expecting to bust one out for probably another six months, but i have the determination to get there.

Great advice!

I'm currently training the one arm pull up

I noticed the pics on Instagram. That lever with weight, too!!

****ing nutter, you...

If your going to the gym just to lose weight then you are doomed to fail, you have to love training to truly get the best from it.

I don't particularly enjoy it.

I'm doing it to see if it a) helps my power and b) helps my weight, and also c) because I am travelling without a bike and I don't particularly enjoy running either. Also d) I am getting older.

I don't particularly enjoy it.

But...

I must get an endorphin rush off it or something because I do enjoy it.

🙂

At least give it a chance, learn a movement and go through the progressions to achieve it.
How about training to do a strict dead hang pull up or a front lever.
No matter how strong or good you are there is always something new to learn and while your busy plugging away an air of henchness will engulf you.

On the subject of CNS fatigue, there is a simple test for seeing if you are fatigued or not..

https://www.t-nation.com/training/tip-take-the-tapping-test-for-cns-health

Ok teasel - fair enough. I like the act of lifting the heavy thing. But it's relative. Give me fair weather and a bike, and the gym wouldn't get a look in 🙂

And it's partly the faff that annoys me. So many exercises for sculpting this or that in a slightly different way or allowing me to lift a few more kg.. don't really care about any of that. That's what I liked about stronglifts - just turn up and do three exercsises as it tells you on the screen.

How about training to do a strict dead hang pull up or a front lever.

I've started training for the seven basic gymnastic moves with [url= https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/ ]Gymnastics Bodies[/url]: Front Level, Side Lever, Hollow Back Press, Straddle Planche, Single Leg Squat, Rope Climb (arms only) and Mana. ETA is about 2 years less the couple of months I've been working on them so far.....

That ^^ appeals to me a bit more tbh.