[Closed] How to become a pilot? (Daughter content)

A friend started as cabin crew and took lesson and course, used long stay trips to gain flying hours in cheaper countries.
10k is no where near though think he's close to triple that.

There are academies that I think BA and virgin do. I may be wrong though.

[url= https://www.itv.com/hub/easyjet-inside-the-cockpit/2a4829 ]https://www.itv.com/hub/easyjet-inside-the-cockpit/2a4829[/url]

Have a £100k plus to hand

A lot come out of training with debt with a view to paying it off once working. Is it really a sensible long term career though? Fully automated planes can't be too far off. Planes have been flying themselves for years. The FiL quit flying commercially as it was boring him, so little to do once in the air. I suspect as planes get smarter the role of the pilot will be devalued. Sorry to sound a bit negative, especially when you've found something she's interested in.

My mate got a flying scholarship with the air training corps then did a degree in aeronautical engineering.

Got a bit lucky n flies for BA

So there's not many working class pilots then 😆

Encourage her, fantastic opportunity and the world of flight needs more women involved in it.

Sod the cash, try scholarships or bursary routes, collage/uni aeronautical collages and don't limit looking in the UK only, you may have to search all over the world.

Best of luck, fantastic to hear about this.

Wouldn't be a career I would choose.

Just go on to the websites of the big companies I'm sure they will show the various routes to getting qualified.

You have to be good at passing exams to do it, work unsocial hours, be exposed to radiation, like large debt, although the rewards come relatively quickly. Two mates of mine did it from Uni. One still flies as a Captain, the other gave it up as his body clock couldn't cope with multiple time zones.

And they hate being called bus drivers for some reason ...

Do the likes of BA recruit youngsters and train or do you do all the leg and cost work first?

Buddy, my wife is a BA captain and in the past was also a college liaison pilot. She knows all about BA's future pilot's programme. She also had her private pilot's license by age 18.

She would love to help you and your daughter and is happy to have a conversation on the phone, which is probably the easiest way to help.

My email is in my profile; drop me a line with your number and we can arrange for her to call you.

Friends who I have who are commercial pilots have all gone for forces route (Fleet Air Arm
and RAF). I believe the budget airlines have a training programme ? Note mate who foies for EasyJet preferred that as he's back home in his own bed every. night. Fromnwjat I understand pay and conditions are not what they used to be
especially for new joiners

As above you need much much more than a PPL, lots of hours after

My friend recently qualified with Easyjet, he quit his job as a lawyer with the local authority to do it.

Basically no income for the period of training and I think he might have had to fund his travel, he did end up in Arizona for getting his flying hours in.

Our swimming coach was thinking about doing pilots training as well but the £300 fee for the assesment course kind of put him off.

We stayed at a B&B in the Pyrenees where the husband was a pilot for KLM flying out of Toulouse. He made the job sound far from glamorous and more akin to a glorified bus driver. He stated the usual route in now was a trainee with a budget airline, long contracts on low pay compared to what he earned. He had started out in the Dutch airforce but said that route into commercial airlines basically didn't exist anymore.

Friend of mine has thrown all in to her 14 year old sons ambition to be a pilot.

They are putting everything into one lesson a month, by the time he is ready to fly solo he will be 16 and legal. They are very 'anti' the forces route. He also hangs around the local Flying club alot, helps out with anything, gets the odd trip up (as a passenger) from other pilots who are just clocking in their time.

No idea how it will pan out, or what happens when he changes his mind in a couple of years time...

If you've got the money (or are willing to take on the debt), then go for the EasyJet route. It's also likely that BA's own "sponsorship" scheme will re-open within the next couple of years, and there's fairly likely to be demand from Eastern European carriers for pilots, and they'll take people going down the modular route if that's the option you go for.

You don't just have to fly. Even before getting a command (and rumours were that people were getting them after 18 months in the company at BA a couple of years ago) you can go into training / management / recruitment / other safety roles. It's definitely not about raw hand-eye coordination anymore, more careful management of systems and other people. Anyone who's seen me attempt to catch a ball will testify to this. She needs to be good at diplomatically getting her own way!

It's the most heavily regulated job you can do. Does she struggle being tested? I'm tested in the simulator twice a year in a pair of 2-day sessions; a further day for route-specific training, a day of SEP with the cabin crew, a further two days for flight safety, and a written test every year along with a medical / ECG. If anything happens, it's investigated to find out why and to prevent it happening again.

You do get your body clock messed with, regardless of short haul or long haul. She'll go from going to bed at 2 am to getting up at 3 am 24 hours later, and then be working a 12 hour day. Then throw in complicated airports, weather, technical problems, passenger issues etc and you then see why it's quite a stressful job.

However, I'm paid more than three times the average salary and get to explore pretty much every major city in Europe with someone else picking up the tab. I also get to step onto the crew bus at the end of the trip and immediately stop thinking about work, which very, very few people in my pay bracket can do. The company is not permitted to contact me on my days off. Also pretty good when you whack on full power on a miserable day and three minutes later burst through the cloud into a stunning sunrise.

So, to summarise - she doesn't have to go down the integrated route, but it is more convenient. She should start attending aviation-specific recruitment fairs, and if really serious and old enough, visit the flying schools. Oh, and try a trial flight somewhere. £150 for 30 minutes or so with an instructor will get some useful feedback.

It needs to be a carefully considered decision. I'd do it again in a flash, but I also wonder what could have been (I studied physics at uni, could have gone on in that direction).

You also have one, or two, or two hundred, or five hundred people literally putting their lives in your hands. The first thing I see when I step into the flight deck are the microphones for the cockpit voice recorder. Something to dwell on. My biggest fear (and the thing I have nightmares about) is accidentally doing something at work that results in someone getting hurt, or worse.

OP if you want to see if your daughter likes the flying side getting some experience flights in on gliders is much cheaper than powered.

Easyjet pilots make £60k pa ?

A lad I used to work with a while few years ago in a totally unrelated job. Decided he wanted to be a pilot, at the time his training cost about 50k, i know he got some kind of bursary/Grant/loan for most of it. He did a lot of exams/tests whilst he was still working at our place, but once he had passed them he went out to Nevada for x months to learn how to fly. He had no previous flying expierance before that. I'm sure the whole thing took about 2 years to complete, and although he wasn't guaranteed a job afterwards, he pretty much walked into a pilots job at Ryanair, he was saying the major airlines virgin/ba etc though needed so many flying hours before he could get a job with them.

I'm still friends with him via Facebook and it looks like he is permantly on holiday.

School friend of my wife's found it was easier to get into flying cargo than people and did that for a good few years, before moving to short haul people flights for more civilised family life. She started off flying gliders as a hobby. There was a big chunk of debt involved to become commercial but not dissimilar to the 3x 9k + living expenses that going to a good English uni would cost now, especially if there is a way to stay at home.

The RAF is probably not as scary a prospect as your wife thinks, but your daughter would need to be prepared to kill people, including inevitable risk to civilians, to do it - which if she has never mentioned the forces before is quite a leap.

I doubt we'll see the abandonment of pilots in your daughters working life, but we might see their role diminished and the number of people on the flight deck reduced during her career. I still think there is another generation of chopper pilots to come through before drones make a significant impact on that area too.

Thanks very much for all the replies. It was just dinner time musings that is slowly becom8ng something she needs to think about. 15 years old as we speak incredibly studious around exam times, hitting the likes of 94 percent in a recent sports science paper which required lots of memory type study, but still likes to go out with her mates.

Getee that's a really kind offer and I will speak to her to see if she would like to do that, and hopefully she will say yes.

As a dad at the end of the day I want to put every feasible opportunity her way but she has to be up for it.

US military has a pilot shortage crisis, they love brits.

I think you have to have the right kind of attitude for military flying. I've been told by ex-military pilots that I'm far too subversive to have ever made the air force. 😀

My brother-in-law got most of the way through the training then 9/11 happened and they stopped all recruitment for a while. Think he was close to £30k in debt.

At the same time a friend on his course fell out of the sky during a training drill which was the nail in the coffin of his pilot dreams.

I'm tested in the simulator twice a year in a pair of 2-day sessions;

We call the two week period prior to this 'pre-simstural'. Usually I just make myself and the kids scarce.

Ex GF's brother trained as one. Cost him about £80k all in and couldn't get a job as a pilot in the end.....

Expensive hobby.

IIRC did most of his training in South Africa as it was cheaper than the UK.

@flaperon, your head is not big enough to be a military pilot - certainly not fast jets. Being a pilot was probably the 5th or 6th thing you told me when we met.

As for your eye-hand coordinatation, I'm not one to throw stones, literally I can't... but watching you fall off your bike when there is nothing there really does make me question how you land an Airbus 🙂

Teen2 is training for his PPL (already solo and will have license before he can drive) - then we will look at options, possibly ATPL modular course. We are paying, but the full course to jet will not be an option. He's not planning on going to Uni. The Easyjet scheme is an integrated course, where you are selected, pay the £90K and then have a job at the end of the course. There are multiple entry point too if you aren't first successful. But essentially, the burden of payment falls on the student in all cases.

Based on future pilot needs, I'm hoping for a direct entry scheme with BA or another carrier, and having the atpl will help him ease into a job. If that doesn't happen, there may be a remortgage at some point.

It does look like a struggle for those not from reasonably well-off backgrounds, to be honest. And he definitely does not want to be a military pilot.

but watching you fall off your bike when there is nothing there really does make me question how you land an Airbus

8)

Not sure if it's still a viable option but a couple of mates trained as a bonded apprentice at a small freight / charter airline. Earned minimum wage for 3 years ish and had to do all the rubbish jobs but the company put you through your pilot training and got you qualified on some of their planes. Once your bond period was up you either got taken on permanently or found a job elsewhere. They're both now flying big passenger jets for BA / Aer Lingus via all sorts of interesting places.

just throwing it out there because i'm aware the program exists, and was surprised how little time it took to get the licence, albeit you need hours to fly bigger planes. You can also come visit and ride the north shore, squamish and whistler...

https://www.bcit.ca/study/programs/100adipma#overview

That's a great offer from Mrs Geetee - she will know a lot more than most.

The BA scheme deducts your training costs from your salary for the first 5 years, so no rich parent required. I believe virgin offer similar.

As already mentioned, gliding is the most accessible way into aviation.

You can fly solo at 14 in gliders and it's a only a minimum of 10 hours to convert to a powered license once you have your glider wings.

A glider flying lesson for a youngster can be as little £30 for an hour and they might only need 20 or 30....

For the sake of your bank balance, talk her out of it.....

I used to work in jet fuel supply at heathrow, one of the best jobs i ever had. Ok not flying the planes but aviation is fascinating, i still smile when landing and i see the jet fuel tanks.

If she is planning on going to University then the University Air Squadron would be a very sensible option [url= https://www.raf.mod.uk/universityairsquadrons/ ]University Air Squadron [/url]

It is selective but if she was successful and achieved a place on a Sqn she would be able to get annually an amount of flying for free and also have access to adventure training amongst many other activities.

We've a friend who paid her own lessons (£lots) over a few years.
This became an idea to fit for a living, so she took out career loan somehow and went for it.
She is bus driver for Jet2 😉

+1 for gliding to start with. Much more accessible (if you live near to a Glider strip!) and much cheaper. She'll learn a lot and get a good grounding before starting the expensive bit.
Even once you've got the PPL and done your CPL exams, flight test and solo, the CAA then want £460 to rubber stamp the paperwork. Or at least that's how much it was in 1999. Don't under estimate the cost - and that's before any prangs...

Good luck. I make a living out of flying balloons commercially. Working in an office is not an option for me. It's a lifestyle, not a job.

but watching you fall off your bike when there is nothing there really does make me question how you land an Airbus

Had to laugh at Stansted motorway services a couple of weeks ago when I watched a member of EasyJet flight crew struggle to navigate his way around the milk and sugar station.....i helped him find the stirrers right under his nose 🙂

^^ that's an indicator of how fatigued a lot of flight crew are.

NATS are heavily recruiting at the moment. Not the pilot route but still aviation.

Another, again quite competitive route, is to go gliding (as others have said) get upto silver certificate (check out the bga website) then convert to ppl and become a glider tug pilot. Living expenses to fly 4-5 hours a day with no costs. Cheapest possible way to build flight time.
Most of the commercial pilots I know got into it because they love flying first and foremost. They then do it for a living, then they come gliding to 'fly for themselves again'
They are still happier than most groups of people with their jobs though!

@dansw13 Exactly the same thought here.

@dansw13 Exactly the same thought here.

Which is why some airlines are more expensive than others - they don't sweat their crews quite so much.

The EASA flight time limitation changes haven't helped one bit either. Take a look at this:

4.30pm to 1am
4.30pm 1am
11.20am to 7.15pm
7am to 5pm
5.30am to 2pm
4.30am to 2pm

This an example of the hours my wife is flying this month. As Flaperon said, it is a well paid job, but I think I would rather have a fresh pilot than a well paid tired one.

The RAF is an option, she won’t get a civilian licence but her hours would allow her to sit the exams to then gain her licences. And contrary to what another poster wrote, if she doesn’t go fast jet she wouldn’t be killing anyone. They have glorified airline pilots too.

Don't make the mistake of thinking someone can join the forces with a vague notion of not being prepared to kill the enemy.

Everyone who joins the forces is taught how to use a personal weapon and many of the helicopters carry defensive machine guns when deployed into warzones.

The pilots on the new P8 will basically be flying 737's except they will be looking for submarines and will carry weapons capable of destroying them.

A friend - who has a multi-millionaire father - opted to earn his stripes by flight training around the Mediterranean islands. He could have thrown money at it but didn't.

He has yet to secure a job with one of the big players and is subsequently spending IRO a week at a time running routes around the med and sometimes the mainland.

He has no urgency to earn big money as his huge home and lifestyle is pretty much paid for. He's in it more for the enjoyment.

Really? Wasn’t aware of that after 22 years service. Well I never.

Back to the original point, if she went into the RAF and looked into the air transport route then she could be sat quite happy flying a wide variety of transport aircraft, yes she will be trained on how to use a weapon. But in my time I’ve not heard of a single voyager pilot who has us to shoot someone.

Anyway, it may be a cheaper option but would very well be a longer option. However she would gain a huge raft of experience that would set her in good stead to join the civilian market all the while getting paid a healthy wage.

And contrary to what another poster wrote, if she doesn’t go fast jet she wouldn’t be killing anyone. They have glorified airline pilots too.

This an example of the hours my wife is flying this month

4.30pm to 1am 8.5 hours
4.30pm 1am 8.5 hours
11.20am to 7.15pm 7.75 hours
7am to 5pm 10 hours
5.30am to 2pm 8.5 hours
4.30am to 2pm 9.5 hours

Am I the only one that thinks this doesn't sound very onerous?

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

@poly no, you get streamed at the end of elementary flying training. They take into account all the tests and reports from selection, leadership course and EFT (if it’s called that now). Then they stream you, you have a say but if you’re exceptional then you’ll most likely go fast jet, but it all depends on your ability and where the greater need is.

Like I said, the longest route, but it’s always worth a conversation. UAS is also a good shout. But apart from military aviation, it’ll require either a scholarship or serious cash.

To the OP; good luck to her whatever she chooses, I miss flying. Being on the ground sucks.

The trouble with the civil route is that the student, or more usually the parent, bears the financial risk.

If all goes well, student gets licence, joins airline, pays back c£100,000, and has a long, rewarding career. Possibly goes part time, opportunity to live abroad, train etc. After a few years, that training loan is quickly forgotten.

Alternative scenario, student gets licence, still owes c£100,000. But can't get job, loses medical, graduates before another Sept. 11th type event etc., etc.

I'm not going to comment on the likelihood of each scenario, but there is a risk, and quite often it's the parents who are bearing that risk; unlike a university graduate's debt, this one will be repaid. If she could finish training tomorrow, she'd likely be offered a job immediately in what is a fast growing market.

I’ve not heard of a single voyager pilot who has us to shoot someone.

Am I the only one that thinks this doesn't sound very onerous?

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Really? 🙁

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Walk in the park ain't it - just press the big "auto pilot" button and put yer feet up. 🙄

Jeez.

If she is 15yo is it worth considering the air cadets? They should give her an opportunity to fly gliders and a taster of military life. It's free to join and if she hates it she can just leave.

I mean, they do get breaks, there are 2 of them. Most of the time they are not actually flying the aircraft.

Yeah you're probably right. Easy job, no consequence if you have a bad day and heck the planes take off, fly and land themselves anyway.

Moron.

Yeah you're probably right. Easy job, no consequence if you have a bad day and heck the planes take off, fly and land themselves anyway.

Where did I say that?

If those working hours were excessive then they would be changed as the professionalpilot on here stated

It's the most heavily regulated job you can do.

I think it's a high skilled, very rewarding job that is generally well paid.

Just don't agree that pilots over stretched as one of the posts was suggesting.

If those working hours were excessive then they would be changed as the professionalpilot on here stated

The working hours can frequently be excessive as the professional pilot I'm married to and all her friends frequently comment.

Seriously, they changed the rules recently to increase the amount of duty hours a pilot can do. You've got pilots wandering around unable to find the milk in a shop because they're so tired.

Mostly it will be just fine but if you think inreasing the number of hours all existing pilots are allowed to be at work for is going to increase safety then we're just delluding ourselves.

besdies take a look at that roster again:

4.30pm to 1am
4.30pm 1am
11.20am to 7.15pm
7am to 5pm
5.30am to 2pm
4.30am to 2pm

and now factor in the fact that we have two kids under the age of nine. Home by say 1.30am, still wired, bed by maybe 2am, asleep by maybe 2.30am and then awake the next morning at 9am to report for duty at 11.20am (which means leaving by 10.30am).

That's a pilot with maybe six hours sleep flying a few hundred people around.

And then do it again. And again.

2 of my mates became pilots, one did a degree in aeronautical engineering then got onto some ba scheme, other sold everything he had to fund himself through a course in America to get his pilots licence, did freight for a bit to get his hours up then switched to passengers. Same course the suicide bombers for twin towers did on the course before his!

I'm not in touch with the first one any longer but the second hates his job, always away, can't plan anything re holidays days out with us lot on bikes etc

OP following up from Air Traffic Control comment above see this piece in the Telegragph, earn pilot money ? There is a big centre on the South Coast at Swanwick too.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists/what-it-is-like-being-an-air-traffic-controller/

Also as above I did a lot of glider flying with the Air Cadets, in my day you could sign up with Uni Air Squadron and get a PPL but I suspect that's no more.

Same course the suicide bombers for twin towers did on the course before his!

Joking aisde its cheaper to get air hours in abroad, maybe a good wheeze for a holiday with your daughter. Gliding (sorry to keep mentioning this 😉 ) is excellent and cheap in pkaces like New Zealand or South Africa and elsewhere in Europe.

Don't discount the military; great training and good fun plus free!

Like others have mentioned, it's a great job, not without its downsides. I do mainly Long Haul, and am back from a New York today. Couple of days in a great city but boy, do I feel tired!

It's stressful at times for sure, especially as a training captain(!) but I get lots of reward from seeing people improve too.

Anyway I'm too tired to add any more value to the convo!

Good luck to her (and you!) M

That's a pilot with maybe six hours sleep flying a few hundred people around.

How much sleep do you need? 6 hours sleep is plenty.

Are you seriously trying to claim the CAA allows pilots to fly exhausted?

and now factor in the fact that we have two kids under the age of nine. Home by say 1.30am, still wired, bed by maybe 2am, asleep by maybe 2.30am and then awake the next morning at 9am to report for duty at 11.20am (which means leaving by 10.30am).

They sound like lifestyle choices to me. Is your wife a danger because of this? Why does she need to get up 1.5 hrs before leaving for work? Besides that looks like 6.5hrs sleep to me, not 6.

And then do it again. And again.

Only they don't. They have mandatory rest days and maximum annual hours. Which is entirely sensible.

Are you suggesting that her employer should change her work pattern because you decided to have children?

I feel more at risk from a tired HGV than an "overworked" pilot.

This book was a good read for a non-pilot;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Skyfaring-Journey-Pilot-Mark-Vanhoenacker-ebook/dp/B00T5H3YUW/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1504421386&sr=1-1&keywords=skyfaring

UAS Is a really good experience from what I have heard from my siblings. One of is currently trekking through North Sweden with them for FREE! Another has a bursary to be in ATC and my other sibling did so much cool stuff which I forgot. They all flew/fly tutors and if lucky will get trips in other aircraft. My Dad did it and he enjoyed it and his friend flew tornado's then went on to BA. It's a really good route for being a pilot in the RAF or anything RAF related. I was in Air Cadets, really annoying but the benefits such as flying and shooting are awesome (I even did a loop!). I'm still considering Uni or Pilot but UAS sounds perfect if you can't decide. Air Cadets is taxing though, but I have heard great things about UAS and hope to join.

They sound like lifestyle choices to me.

Don't you just love it when people, usually those without kids, lob that comment in as if the only people to benefit from the countless hours of physical and emotional effort, not to mention the serveral hundred thoudsand pounds needed to successfully raise a child into a socially useful and contributing member of society, were the parents themselves.

I'm willing to bet Gobshi.... I mean Gobuchul, that you're twenty something and don't have kids.

I'm also willing to bet you're not a pilot, not married to a pilot and almost certainly don't know any actual pilots.

Are you seriously trying to claim the CAA allows pilots to fly exhausted?

Yes that is exactly what is being claimed and being dicussed and has been raised in Parliament as an issue a lot in the run up to the change in rules.

But don't take my word for it, read what BALPA has to say and then ask around.

[url= https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/Press-Releases/Exhausting-European-flight-rules-could-lead-to-a-p ]BALPA concerns with pilot exhaustion[/url]

Yes that is exactly what is being claimed and being dicussed and has been raised in Parliament as an issue a lot in the run up to the change in rules.

BALPA is their Trade Union. Funny that they should suggest that they are over worked. 🙄

Are you seriously suggesting that work pattern you listed is something that happens week after week?

Pilots are limited to 1000 hours a year, which is on average about 20 hours per week flying time.

Your wife works in a heavily regulated industry, is highly trained, well paid. It is so middle class angst to suggest that she is over worked because she, on occasion, only gets 6.5 hours quality sleep. Not rest but sleep.

By the way, I didn't insult anyone, you have insulted me twice. Why? Because I don't agree that your snowflake wife has to work "dangerous" hours?

By the way, I didn't insult anyone, you have insulted me twice. Why? Because I don't agree that your snowflake wife has to work "dangerous" hours?

Only twice? Damn I must be going soft in my old age.

Ok, well re my snowflake wife, st least I've been able to persuade another human being that I'm worth spending the rest of their lives with.

There you go, 'the third time pays for all'.

Hi gobuchul,

Flying hours are limited to 1,000 hours per year, duty hours are rather higher (1,880 hours). Flying hours apply (in general), from engine start to shutdown, not actual airborne hours.

The work pattern described is *exactly* something that happens week after week. Cock up your leave application (which is done the year before), and you can do that for three or four months straight. You try flipping between going to bed at 1am and two days later getting up at 3.30am four times a month and report back...

The schedule looks similar to what a military pilot can fly, mixing up day and night flying, but we did 10 hour duty days, can be increased to 12 and on operations 14 hours. That’s flying people, underslung loads, Tripp movements and weapon serials. However there was a mandated 8 hours available for rest between duty periods, with 6 for sleep.

Now I see why my front seat colleagues leave and join the civil market. Easy job, easy money.

The work pattern described is *exactly* something that happens week after week. Cock up your leave application (which is done the year before), and you can do that for three or four months straight

Still no sympathy from me.

I fly a lot and I'm not worried that the pilots are working hours like that.

st least I've been able to persuade another human being that I'm worth spending the rest of their lives with.

You are very insecure aren't you!

I do kinda agree with Gobuchul here, I'm not denying it's stressful and pressured, but it's very well paid, most pilots I know (and I have some among very close friends) love it, and I'm just not sure the shift pattern is evidence of how 'tough' it is.

Geetee, it's great you're such a violent defender of your wife's profession, but it's also a bit excessive. You'd think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she's sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

You'd think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she's sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

His wife's profession might explain it.

He obviously feels less of a "man" as he's married to someone who is in a profession he isn't capable of entering. Who basically has a certificate that indicates she is way more capable than he his.

It must really add to his feeling of inadequacy, as she leaves the house each morning, wearing 4 stripes, off to fly high tech passenger jets and earn more money than him.

Poor boy. No wonder he goes on about middle class, WASP, male oppression.

You'd think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she's sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

I don't think the profession needs defending but there are issues that need raising. There has been a bid to lobby parliament on this issue because the rules have changed recently. No one is saying it's crazy tough; but what is being said is 'watch out'; it's getting very challenging and that will almost certainly come at a cost at some point.

I think we should all be concerned with any trend over time that sees safety critical professions being required to work more hours. There was a very similar campaign on behalf of junior doctors a few years ago. You simply can't expect significantly increasing the work load not to have an impact on safety.

I might seem a little over zealous about it but that's in response to gobchul suggesting (rather ignorantly I and others though) that there was no iussue.

You'd think from some of your postings here and on Facebook that she's sent to the gulag for minimum wage.

This is true. I've made a conscious decision to effectively put my career second to my wife's. It wasn't easy having invested quite so much time and effort up to that point. She does earns about 20% more than I do but good for her.

On the upside, I've got two fabulous sons who both adore me and I adore them. I am there with them every morning when they wake up and almost every evening when they go to bed. I always read them a story before we turn out the light and those moments when they both spontanesously grab me for a hug and say 'I love you daddy', without any prompting, are priceless. There isn't a job or a salary I would trade for that.

There isn't a job or a salary I would trade for that.

You don't have to because the Mrs has.

Gob, enough now. You’re baiting and being a dick.

*reads first post*

*reads last post*

*wonders what the hell kicked off in the posts in the middle*

Gob, enough now. You’re baiting and being a dick

True enough.

However.

[img] [/img]

This may be absolute nonsense, but to me it would seem easier to have pilotless planes than driverless cars. If so, surely the majority of pilots' days are numbered?

What happens to a driverless car if it fails?
What happens to an airliner?

I'm sure it will happen because it's cheaper, and big business won't be happy until the wage bill is Zero

GeeTee - wasting heartbeats arguing with some on here

I'm sure it will happen because it's cheaper,