[Closed] How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before...

I'll never be able to afford a Porsche 911. Doesn't mean an owner of one is a **** though. They just worked harder at life than me.

More money != worked harder or more successful

The previous fuel cost protests were clearly organised and managed by right wing elements with tory party links and were supported by Cameron

You've probably got a point to some extent there TJ. EDIT - in that the protests were certainly publicised by elements of the press just to stir up trouble and the idea that Labour were losing control, etc.

Mind you, your patronising view on everyone else who isn't as clever/well informed as you (which seemingly covers pretty much anyone who disagrees with you on anything) explains why a lot of people don't believe or like your views or your behaviour... something to think about maybe...

What about you TSY?

just as its a choice to switch your electricity supplier to one thats 100% generated from renewable resources

There isn't one, is there? And even if there were, we couldn't all switch to it.

But yes - managing change is what's needed. End of.

The issue is though that the Govt is depending on fuel duty as much as we are depending on the fuel. Great - we've slashed fuel usage, hooray - but our income tax has doubled - boo.

Its no conspiracy. The previous fuel cost protests were clearly organised and managed by right wing elements with tory party links and were supported by Cameron

If that's the case, then now that their master plan has reached fruition, they will be calling in the favours and we'll be seeing their Tory friends, now safely in government, will be slashing fuel duty for them.....

Let me know when that happens will you TJ. Then you'll have the proof of your conspiracy. And not before.

[url] http://www.goodenergy.co.uk/ [/url]

It's great, less cars and they're going slower.

Except, that's not true, is it.

People, fundamentally, won't give up their cars. They'll run into debt, they'll steal fuel, they'll put a cocktail of chip-pan oil and Special Brew into their diesels and hope for the best, but there'd have to be a serious price hike for most people to seriously consider alternatives.

Personally, I think part of the problem is the woeful absence of realistic options. Long-distance train routes are viable so long as you're travelling on your own, but to do any sort of short to medium distance is just silly. I idly looked at getting my OH to South Wales via train for a job she was looking at, and to get there for say 9am she'd have to set off at 10pm the night before.

Also, where did all the school buses go? Go anywhere near a school at picking up or dropping off time and you can't move for yummy mummies ferrying little Hermione about in their BMW X5s and Land Cruisers.

Well, it's a bit of a Catch 22 for me... I move jobs every two years or so... I work at a level and in a position that requires me to be within an organisation of a certain size... my age, house prices in the SE, proximity to family and friends dictate that it makes more sense to commute a little further than I'd like to and avoid paying the costs of relocating just to save some fluffy bunnies.

True TJ, but are you personally ahead of the game.

/self-righteous mode/

My electricity bill last year was -1500e, yes, that's a minus sign. Gas bill: zero. Wood bill: 250e, though some of the tools included in the total should last years (all the wood came from gardens). Commuting: on foot. Weekends: on the bike. Skiing: about 6000e (no pockets in shrouds eh!)

thought so

It is true Cougar, the last time fuel went up in France the consumption of fuel went down (by about 10% for the most expensive period) and the number of speed related accidents went down.

S'pose I could just jack it all in, get a job in the local supermarket, sell my car, move into rented accomodation and put myself on the council house waiting list?

That'd help society the best wouldn't it? Be so much better if not only I could cut down on my fuel bill I could cut down on my tax bill too...

Might have to stop buying locally sourced organic food though... christ this middle class dilemma will keep me going all week... will I still be able to buy fair trade coffee?

[img] [/img]

So Yossarian... care to share how you've achieved your carbon neutral utopia?

Also, where did all the school buses go?

Ah yes, this is a goodun.

In Cardiff afaik they give kids the choice of which school to go to. So kids are going to school all over the city. The result is that you'd need hundreds of busses each with only a few kids on. So their parents drive them - so now instead of people popping down the road to work, they are driving all over the city to drop their kids off first, driving much further and for longer than they need to.

just to save some fluffy bunnies

As if this was just about bunnies. I expect better from you tsy!

will I still be able to buy fair trade coffee?

No. I'm afraid Yeti's gone to Iceland 😉

Yeah I guess you could, bit extreme though isn't it?

So Yossarian... care to share how you've achieved your carbon neutral utopia?

lol, getting a little touchy aren't you?

Well, I made the choice to get a job I could cycle to every day, I made the choice to buy a house that scores pretty well on the environmental impact report and to source our electrcity and gas from the greenest suppliers I could find, I made the choice to grow some of our own food and buy as much local stuff as poss etc.

Maybe I was/am lucky to be able to do this - married with 2 little kids by the way

I think there's a big difference between HAVING to do something and justifying your choices to do something, hence my earlier post...

We still go round to Jerry and Margo's for a glass of sherry from time to time.

Binners... I'm going to report your post for swearing... ***land?! Jesus H... I come out in a rash if I go into a Sainsbury's!

Also, where did all the school buses go?

My Mum used to give me money for the bus but no pocket money. School was 2 miles each way. Now I know why she did this.

I never caught the bus.

There isn't one, is there? And even if there were, we couldn't all switch to it.

http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-your-home/?gclid=CM_Wm6PvzacCFcJP4Qod4z0lCw

Probably not accomodate us all but it is a start we need to change.
The status Quo is clearly unsustainable

the last time fuel went up in France the consumption of fuel went down

Ah, didn't realise you were in France.

To be fair, I don't have figures, either for there or for here. I know that in the height of the fuel protests here in the mid-2000s, we were looking at a pound a litre, now some six years on it's 40% more than that. When I started driving circa 1990, IIRC it was under 40p/litre.

I filled up this morning and it was over £90 - if it rises much more it'll be £100 per tank. If we're going to have another "protest," I suspect that might be a tipping point for people.

Purely anecdotally, I've not seen a noticable change in traffic volume or speed. If anything, there's more cars and they're going faster. Like I say though, I don't have any figures for this so could well be wrong.

I've not seen a noticable change in traffic volume or speed. If anything, there's more cars and they're going faster. Like I say though, I don't have any figures for this so could well be wrong

The same people still do 55 in the middle lane or 60 if they go over into the third lane.

The same people still drive as though they are Schumacher from the 90's with their company cars.

What we don't notice is the people who have to commute by car but now with pack lunches, cancelled foreign holidays, living on budgets and turning the hearing off at home.

[url= http://www.caradisiac.com/Baisse-historique-de-la-consommation-de-carburant-en-aout-26937.htm ]Diesel consumption dropped 10.6% in August 2008 when the oil price reached $150[/url]

And 47% of people were prepared to reduce their fuel consumption if the high prices continued.

Hora. Shut your jibba jabba fool. She was actually trying to get you killed. She cackle demoniacally as you tramped dutifully off on your normal walk to school. Down the hard shoulder of the M62

Come on Yeti. Who could resist.....

[img] [/img]

😀

I just did a bit of sick in my mouth.

Binners, at least we got shoes as kids. I know kids in Warrington had to make do with bare feet and the only excitement that came to the town was when the IRA held a fireworks display 😆

Well, I made the choice to get a job I could cycle to every day

I think a lot of us would absolutely love that. We're not all in such a fortunate position though.

[quote> http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-your-home/?gclid=CM_Wm6PvzacCFcJP4Qod4z0lCw

Probably not accomodate us all but it is a start we need to change

I'm with Ecotricity. This, from their own website:

n just four years we have more than
doubled the amount of green electricity in
our mix to 41%. All from our own
windmills. (The UK average is 6.6%.)

..tells you two things. One is that they can't even supply their own small customer base with 100% renewable, and the other is that there is only enough renewable currently for 6.6% of the UK's needs.

Yes we do need to change, and signing up for Ecotricity is a great start but getting up to say 20% is going to be extremely hard. And then we'd only be 1/5 of the way there!

I just did a bit of sick in my mouth.

Yossarian... please describe your design for life, maybe we can learn from you?

nah, work it out for yourself, its not hard

..tells you two things. One is that they can't even supply their own small customer base with 100% renewable, and the other is that there is only enough renewable currently for 6.6% of the UK's needs.

yep, spot on. nothing's going to change unless the consumer demands it unfortunately.

As if this was just about bunnies. I expect better from you tsy!

😆 I was trying to be inciteful!

Yossarian... I would suggest you are lucky, or fortunate. Maybe I should move. Oh wait a minute... I already live close enough to cycle. 😆 20 miles each way, everyday would probably be bit of a ball ache though.

hora - Member
I know kids in Warrington had to make do with bare feet and the only excitement that came to the town was when the IRA held a fireworks display

It wasn't particularly exciting for three year old Johnathan Ball or twelve year old Tim Parry.

🙄

How will truckdrivers like neilsonwheels dispose of Prostitutes in the future if he doesn't have access to petrol?

20%. Spain tops that whenever there's a bit of wind. Germany is now over 17% and rising. France is at 15.5%.

Warrington had to make do with bare feet and the only excitement that came to the town was when the IRA held a fireworks display

How high do you think fuel prices will have to reach before...

...people stop driving like dickheads?

clearly, quite a lot more.

20%. Spain tops that whenever there's a bit of wind. Germany is now over 17% and rising. France is at 15.5%.

Aware of that. Just saying - it will be hard for us to beat that.

And it will. Politically, economically, socially.. difficult.

Shouldn't be but there you go.

The sanctimonious vegan shoe wearing crowd...

This will be the same crowd that...

care to share how you've achieved your carbon neutral utopia?

Surely using an end product doesn't preclude you from questioning the production methods.

As far as you can.

It's down to choices and priorites. The guy with a Porsche Cayenne and £2000 heating bill obviously doesn't have the same priorities or right to compalin about fuel prices as the man with a Polo, well insulated home, a solar hot water heater and a pile of share certificates in renewable start-ups.

o how far do you have to go before you are allowed to say you aren't happy with the fossil fuel dependance we have? Live in a cave, veg patch outside, own a cow a sheep and raise chickens?

So you say you aren't happy as you need to assuage your conscience whilst quaffing at the trough?

Abit like retiree's who buy a Toyota Prius as they suddenly care after years of waste?

No matter what you do or say now doesn't make a cat in hells chance of a difference. Indians and Chinese aint going to listen to you. We had our Industrial revolution and if we don't like they'll fight us on the battlefield for the worlds dwindling oil reserves.

They'll win.

aren't you assuming the only reason for reducing peoples car usage is to save the environment? Theres a lot of other good reasons congestion, accidents, local air pollution etc..

I've no doubt some people need cars more than others, but the vast majority of people use cars for completely unecessary journeys. Many people where i work drive < 2 miles to work. I questioned someone once and they said they can't walk because it'd talk nearly 30 minutes and they didn't know the way. WTF?

People justify lazyness will all sorts of nonsense

You also can't expect females to walk through certain areas or even early.

Central London- the car is an absolute pita to own/maintain compared to public transport.

Outside London- Public transport sucks.

As far as you can.

So you say you aren't happy as you need to assuage your conscience whilst quaffing at the trough?

So you say you aren't happy as you need to assuage your conscience whilst quaffing at the trough?

Abit like retiree's who buy a Toyota Prius as they suddenly care after years of waste?

No matter what you do or say now doesn't make a cat in hells chance of a difference.

If / When petrol hits £2 a litre do you not think that most of the working class families physically won't be able to afford to run a car?

And a lot of single earners around £20k will be able to afford it just but it will eat into their savings massively putting another nail in the coffin of the mortgage impossible dream.

Massively hump! I was born in the wrong generation, I want a twin v6's!

hora - Member
No matter what you do or say now doesn't make a cat in hells chance of a difference. Indians and Chinese aint going to listen to you. We had our Industrial revolution and if we don't like they'll fight us on the battlefield for the worlds dwindling oil reserves.

So remove yourself from that race freeing your ability to compete. The future will not be like the present but more so.

There is a pretty inevitable fight that we can not hope to win, so we need to remove ourself from it as much as possible.

HoratioHufnagel - Member
aren't you assuming the only reason for reducing peoples car usage is to save the environment? Theres a lot of other good reasons congestion, accidents, local air pollution etc..

+1 reducing car use make for more pleasurable environment to live in. Even if oil was not an issue reducing car use makes for a more pleasent environment.

I think the Chinese are actually trying to develop their country more sustainably than ours were.

After all, it would be massively stupid to base your whole economy on a dwindling resource, wouldn't it? They are smart, they won't make our mistake because they saw what happened to us.

Well they are certainly better at controlling the potential as well as the living population.

Thankfully we don't shoot our own citizens. We just kettle them.

Fuel still costs about double in the UK compared to the US, but we don't see very significant differences in attitude to car use. There are still so many don't-give-a-damn drivers in the UK. It's quite depressing.

I interpret that to mean fuel still needs get a lot more expensive before the majority make any changes to their habits. I see just as many cars lined up at my daughters primary school, bike sheds completely empty. Clearly it doesn't really matter yet.

So other than the sad fact that that cats in the oil industry are raking it in, I'm very happy that prices are rising. I do drive, and these days I take some pride in going very slowly. (Which wasn't always the case). - At least I still get to go as fast as I like on my bike.

It's got to be good for the UK in the long run because is the only way we will ever reduce our addiction to the stuff, and stop fighting criminal wars and pandering to despots.

I even wrote to George Osbourne and asked him NOT to drop the duty increase, but to spend the money raised on green energy investments instead. - He didn't listen, but every little helps.