[Closed] How do you inject an interest into politics?

There are degrees of changing your mind. Going from hard left to hard right is not the same as, for example, rethinking a view on the Euro for example based on current (or reasonable future projected) economic circumstances.

ninfan - agreed. Theres nothing more unappealing than the nepotism of a 'political dynasty'. We bemoan the fact that the politicians are clueless as they all follow the same predictable career path, and have no 'real life' experience

So how could the political parties respond to these accusations? They make it worse? I know. They could anoint their indulged offspring, born and raised in an environment of flipped second homes, inflated expenses claims, closed westminster clubs, and matter-of-fact corruption.

Fantastic!

Only one thing is more boring than politics, and that's shouty people telling you to be interested in politics - it's all shite.
I've not ever noticed a single tangible effect on my lifestyle that could be directly attributed to my local or national government, so for that reason I have never, and will never cast a vote 😛

ninfan - Member

...if someone can come up with a way of delivering PR whereby the system isn't filled with 'petit princes' for example Jack Straw, Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock's offspring, chosen by head office (as per the safe labour seats at the moment) or parachuted in by the Unions, then I'll back it 100%...

AV was a workable solution*...

(*not PR based, but y'know, a step in the right direction)

If politicians actually truly represented the people who elected them rather than the party line or their own self interests. Then the electorate would care more.

Hilldodger -
NHS?
Universal education?
No streets wher you live?
Bins not emptied?
Sewage taken away from your house?
Water goes in?
Gas?
Electricity?
Labour rights?
Policing?

To answer the OP.

Lions and tigers in the House of Commons. Live televised debates/maulings.

Monkey Butlers on the steps of Westminster.

Sorted.

Now ask me another.

Meet Mara Carfagna, Italian politician.
[img] [/img]
Shallow? Well yes. But could she really do much worse than Ed, Nick or Dave?
If we're going to be fed bullshit, we may as well be fed it by someone nice to look at. Might take the edge off the taste.

Ok.. here's a question

Say the unthinkable happened and someone else got voted in.. The Greens or UKIP or whoever..

Would the mafia let it happen or would there be a cover-up..?
Or would there be a military coup or a junta or something..?

I don't imagine they would just hold their hands up and say 'what-Ho! Jolly well done chaps, fair's fair'

More participatory democracy, with publicly funded political parties, devolved govt for regions and much smaller local councils with real powers holding meetings open to the public and at times when the public can attend.

[i] devolved govt for regions and much smaller local councils with real powers[/i]

the trouble with devolved powers is that everyone just starts complaining about 'Postcode Lotteries'.

I think removal of the party is a bloody good idea, get people voting for what they believe not what their party does.

You also need some real characters in the system to provoke emotion in people. In the 80's, you had Kinnock and Thatcher. Now you can argue about their policies but people cared and had passion about them. The current lot are grey, boring and basically the same as each other.

The Scottish referendum:

1). Everyone's vote counted (rather than the handful of marginal constituencies under FPTP).
2). The choice was genuine and would make a meaningful difference to people's lives.

Result = 85% turnout.

Since this partly relates to the referendum: I was staying up late to watch the results. Around 1 am the BBC did a discussion between some invited guests. After about a minute of this I hit the mute button. It then occurred to me that the much vaunted assertion that Scottish politics had changed for ever might not necessarily be true. I agree that listening to people lecturing each other with no sense that they are ever going to modify their opinions is irritating and demoralising.

Out of curiosity, does anyone actually follow whats happening in day to day politics? While I agree the parties are bland and offer very little, they are that way because we allow them through indifference.

Think it's one of the things that is going to come from the ref, for me personally, is that i'll be taking alot more interest in what they are saying and doing.

Guessing my thinking there is that you can't battle against something through cliches, you need to know more of the inner workings.

In that respect, we as citizens share some of the blame.

btw I agree 100% with abolishing party politics.

Out of curiosity, does anyone actually follow whats happening in day to day politics? While I agree the parties are bland and offer very little, they are that way because we allow them through indifference.

I disagree: I think we're indifferent because a) few of us hold any sway over who's in charge and b) there's little difference between the main parties' offer.

As I said earlier, real change that we all participate in results in a great deal of interest, with very high voting turnout.

How about we revise the party funding?
Each party gets an allocation of money from UK PLC to fund their campaigns etc. Same amount for each party.
That way, we don't get a party indebted to big business or unions or other vested interests. The whole thing is corrupt if you ask me.

Each party gets an allocation of money from UK PLC to fund their campaigns etc. Same amount for each party.

Favours existing parties too much surely - the greens or UKIP (whether you support them or not) would get scraps from the table, at least at the moment, if something is a truly popular message, then it will garner support and funding - the alternative means that anything which sought to oppose the old order would be nipped in the bud by not being able to get funding. (of course, the alternative, all parties getting the same funding regardless means handing the same amount of money to the BNP as Labour)

Hilldodger -
NHS?
Universal education?
No streets wher you live?
Bins not emptied?
Sewage taken away from your house?
Water goes in?
Gas?
Electricity?
Labour rights?
Policing?

all of these things have 'averaged out' over the period I've been eligible to vote, a few blips and bumps but can honestly say I've not been able to tell which party was "in power" by the peformance of any of those metrics.
But then I've always been a fully employed London-o-centric person with modest expediture and no dependents, so probabaly not in the firing range very often 🙂

(of course, the alternative, all parties getting the same funding regardless means handing the same amount of money to the BNP as Labour)

wrecker - Member
(of course, the alternative, all parties getting the same funding regardless means handing the same amount of money to the BNP as Labour)

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. Level playing field. They can also demonstrate their budgeting skills! No more cash for honours or favours.
I don't want to vote for the unions or the banks.

We could have a 1 in 1 out. Kind of like relegation for the shittest?

Out of curiosity, does anyone actually follow whats happening in day to day politics? While I agree the parties are bland and offer very little, they are that way because we allow them through indifference.

Of course not. That's because politics these days has ceased to be about changing society for the best interests of whoever it the politicians represent*, and instead has become a game where the aim is to score points against the opposition, which can then be reported in the media that night.

*I'll come back to this point, the problem IMO is the whole nature of representation. Politicians don't represent their constituents, they decide what's best for them. This decision is based on either their own beliefs, their party's or whichever corporation has offered them a non-executive directorship (cynical? me?). Until this power is removed and they are forced to represent the wishes of their constituents nothing much will change.

The problem with PR is the selection of candidates - if someone can come up with a way of delivering PR whereby the system isn't filled with 'petit princes' for example Jack Straw, Tony Benn and Neil Kinnock's offspring, chosen by head office (as per the safe labour seats at the moment) or parachuted in by the Unions, then I'll back it 100% - even Scotlands version remains stacked with 'list members'

This is a huge problem with PR, you might know who the first two or three on the list are but the rest are exactly the type of political apparatchiks we all hate.

Devolved power to the regions would be a reasonable start - but you would need a properly set up federal government with clear delimitation of responsibilities, and of course it means creating a whole load more politicians...

[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-conference-to-keep-happening-until-somebody-notices-2014092591075 ]Balls[/url]

Of course not. That's because politics these days has ceased to be about changing society for the best interests of whoever it the politicians represent*

Historically speaking, it was very rarely about this. Mostly it was about self interest 🙂

Historically speaking, it was very rarely about this. Mostly it was about self interest

See my second point. The first was more about the fact that these days it's less about actual policy, and more about scoring points on the news like it's some sort of sport. A good example being the ridiculous hoohah about Miliband forgetting a bit of his speech. Absolutely no substantive reason to go on about it as it will have absolutely no effect on any policy or future decision, but repeatedly analysed, talked about and written about in the media like it's the most important political issue of the day. I mean, it's not like we're about to start bombing people again is it?

Should make it illegal for the media to report trivialities not related to policy. I agree the media is a major issue. But if you did what I just suggested, they'd probably just not report anything. so that is difficult to tackle as the media question is a minefield. Especially when you consider advertising revenues, editorial direction and associated agendas. And further free press issues.

Problem, with agendas mind, is that if people agree with them, they deny their existence.

So wait.. is your name pronounced like Joseph or what?

Should make it illegal for the media to report trivialities not related to policy.

Was, for example, Prescott shagging his secretary a triviality?

Its easy to consider that as a politically loaded triviality and not in the public interest, but that leads you to Blunkett and Quinn (and the nannies visa)? Boris and Guppy? Mandelson and the rent boy etc...

I did concede it was a silly idea and unworkable. Just trying to generate, poorly, discussion on the media aspect. I've no real deeply held opinions on it tbh.

Molgrips, my name is Joseph. Joe. Josie. Jose.. Whatever ye prefer. I've many more less flattering names. 😆

Oh I see. I get cross with people for not making any kind of effort to get Welsh placenames right but I've really got no idea bout Gaelic, so I'll have to brush up before I next go 🙂

Because politics is inherently effng boring.
I care nothing about 99% of what goes on in the Houses of Parliament because it only affects me in a negative way. It takes money and spends on things I resent paying for.
I can do nothing about that so the best way to keep my blood pressure safe is to avoid thinking about it.
The principle of democracy was great in ancient Greece as you could have you say but now we don't . We vote for the person who does the least damage to our own views and interests and they never ever ask us what we think. No one asked me about the Scottish issue. No one asks me anything. My bloody MP became some sort of minor minister. He didn't ask me if I minded him doing the job and as there are only 24 hours in a day that job meant he had less hours to be fighting the local cause or listening to his voters.
To say that we should become involved is silly. No politician has ever done anything radical. the whole point of the job is to stay in power.
Nevil Shute had a useful point when he was suggesting that people in power should have independent means. That way you don't care about your job, you get on with it. The best politicians will be those who don't care if they go.
Our MPs toe the party line not fight for their voters. I expect mine to raise hell if an issue arises that harms my area. I care nothing if he brings down party hate on his head. His job is to stand up for me, not the bloody government.
Politicians pussy foot about trying to offend no one. Arseholes.
Frankly I have better things to do than join a club that I despise.
And you buggers have no wound me up something rotten . 😆

I care nothing about 99% of what goes on in the Houses of Parliament because it only affects me in a negative way. It takes money and spends on things I resent paying for.

Not really. Now I'm no Tory, but for example in the Commons they debate legislation that attracts business to our country, and this helps our economy. We've been in a recession, but don't overlook the fact that our economy is generally respectable in terms of performance.

Our MPs toe the party line not fight for their voters.

Yes, serious problem imo.

make everyone over the age of 21 responsible for it. everyone on the electoral roll gets 6 months paid work in local government, parliament has less powers, local government gets more. fines if you don't do it, a bit like jury service, names chosen at random. probably unworkable, but i'd love a go...

[img] [/img]

Probably get someones interest...

Nevil Shute had a useful point when he was suggesting that people in power should have independent means. That way you don't care about your job, you get on with it. The best politicians will be those who don't care if they go.

Ah, so only the rich can become MPs? Genius!

It's sad when people say they won't vote for Ed miliband because looks a bit weird. If we vote like that then we get the politicians we deserve, frankly.
Refuse to vote for him because he appears to have no policy, maybe, but sod how comfortable he is in photos and on TV! It's nasty IMO, like laughing at the odd-looking kid at school.

I think we need to be taught parliamentary politics at school - how the system works, how it was developed, political history, how each party has developed and what their core manifestos/philosophies are etc

Also party-neutral basic stuff whereby people understand that our pensions will be paid from the taxes of our children and grandchildren, taxes are NOT government money, but OUR money, that if we want more public services run by the state we have to pay more taxes, explain the difference between government deficit and government debt etc, benefits and pitfalls of running services by the state vs privatisation - the technical stuff.

Mind you, do politicians want us to understand all this stuff, really? Much harder to make insane promises like Brown did if we start asking difficult questions about how it's going to be funded... I'm cynical that politicians really want a properly engaged and educated electorate

Why should people take an interest in politics? I can't stand those who do trying to force their opinions and interests on others. Also seeing such a bunch of self invested liars in politics completely switches many people off.

The same question could be asked of fiscal studies, medicine, sport, music etc. They all have the ability to drastically affect our life but it doesn't mean we should care. It's a crucial element of democracy - the right to apathy.

molgrips - Member
Oh I see. I get cross with people for not making any kind of effort to get Welsh placenames right but I've really got no idea bout Gaelic, so I'll have to brush up before I next go

Incidently, just back from an SSP meeting there. I'm going to go to meetings from different parties to sample what they have to say. And then consider getting involved.

Place was packed out the door and that was even them hiring a bigger hall than usual(well hall's a bit of a stretch, but it was a good sized room.).

The referendum effect is most definately tangible.

glasgowdan - Member
Why should people take an interest in politics?