Junkyard - lazarus
I googled that claim
Scamp! It's okay though, he's not actually here.
I am just hoping he does no think I am a racist 😉
sam j your full quote
The casualty figures reflect the fact that Israel cares a lot more about its civilian population than Hamas does about its own. You can be sure that if Hamas were fighting Hizbullah the casualty figures would be higher on both sides, as is evidenced by the Hizbullah/Isis fight in Lebanon, where casualty figures are completely off the scale.
IMHO you blame them for Israel killing civilians which is odd to say the least
given you do this about Israel it can , literally, in your eyes, do no wrong
Again what have they done you would like to publicly criticise?
JY. Thank you for the quote. If you read further up on the link, you will see that its related to my first post that says owing to the heavy investment that Israel has made in developing its iron dome system for the protections of its citizens, the casualty figures on the Israel side are a lot lower than they would be. This does not imply that Israel can do no wrong
Hamas are responsible for civilian deaths in that, for every rocket fired, there will be an attempt to destroy the launcher(s) by the IDF. That is the simple tit for tat exchange that now exists. Hamas know that, yet they continue to fire rockets at Israel, in full knowledge that this will kill civilians located near launchers. This, while the Hamas elite sit comfortably in the underground network of bunkers they have built themselves with money from organisations that don't regard them as terrorists organisations that was supposed to be channeled into protecting precisely those citizens they have exposed above them.
Tom_W1987 - MemberWhere as I think that it's a shocking indictment of all of humanity that after nearly two millennia of oppression, forced expulsions, pogroms, lynchings etc etc ad nauseum.....
What a ridiculous argument to use to defend the terrible injustices meted out to the Palestinian people.
What American Jew living today in Israel does so because they faced oppression, lynching, forced expulsions, etc, in the US ?
I said earlier on this thread that there is no justification whatsoever for a British Jew such as Dame Shirley Porter, for example, to own land and/or live in Palestine.
Can anyone provide a sensible explanation to suggest otherwise ?
That's a genuine question btw as it goes to the very crux of the issue, answer it satisfactory and imo you've made the case for the Israeli state, if you can't answer it then the existence of the Israeli state cannot be justified imo.
So why does Dame Shirley Porter have the right to own and live on land taken from the Palestinians ?
Hamas are responsible for civilian deaths in that, for every rocket fired, there will be an attempt to destroy the launcher(s) by the IDF.
Its somewhat fortunate that when your side kill civilians it is not their fault 😕
Your view is dangerously one sided here. FWIW I am not massive fan of Hamas then again I am not a massive fan of collective punishment or killing civilians. Would you like to criticise Israel for this?
If you are just going to be one sided again[ and not criticise Israel at all]then just ignore me a it is a pointless "debate" as you voiew can be summed up as
My country right or wrong
Are hamas reaponsible for the illegal use of white phosphorus in densley populated areas to the point where human rights watch have indicated that it should be treated as a war crime? Oh no that was those peace loving neighbours just helping out by maiming women and children.
Are hamas reaponsible for the illegal use of white phosphorus in densley populated areas to the point where human rights watch have indicated that it should be treated as a war crime? Oh no that was those peace loving neighbours just helping out by maiming women and children.
well who else you gonna blame....Israel??
obviously its the fault of Hamas and every living Palestinian...they are to blame for the dehumanising and illegal treatment meted out them by the Israeli government...why would you think the Israeli's are responsible for anything they do?
It really is quite simple Israel hasnt got a leg to stand on currently with the way it is treating the Palestinains, it is abhorent, wrong, cruel and vindictive.
Forget the stuff in the past with the holocaust, the Yom Kipur war(sp) the 6 day war the PLO, Munich and all the other stuff that has happened.
Israel should stop killing Palestinian women and children now end of.
I N R A T S but, one word...
GLOBALZIONISTCONSPIRACY
I said earlier on this thread that there is no justification whatsoever for a British Jew such as Dame Shirley Porter, for example, to own land and/or live in Palestine.
So why does Dame Shirley Porter have the right to own and live on land taken from the Palestinians ?
They need the manpower to fight.
Whether you like it or not the Israelis think they are fighting a war for their own survival. I can understand their viewpoint from a psychological perspective. If I'd grown up in that culture, with their history, I don't think I'd have an qualms being a Viper pilot and putting 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza.
So it comes down to this, how do you intend to remove that attitude from Israelis, when ceasefires are continually broken by both sides....leading to this childish "you did it first" crap that we even see on this forum.
They need the manpower to fight.
So you can't think one single valid reason why Dame Shirley Porter should be allowed to own and live on Palestinian land. Well there's a surprise.
I don't think I'd have an qualms being a Viper pilot and putting 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza.
I don't know if that was supposed to be some sort of joke but right there you completely destroyed your credibility, and exposed just how morally bankrupt supporters of Zionism are.
exposed just how morally bankrupt supporters of Zionism are.
well what did you expect when members of the Israeli government openly declare that their only solution to this is to carry out a mass genocide on the Palestinian population...this government policy/attitude then become the normal way of thinking for the general Israeli population as it is fed more lies and propaganda by the Israeli govt. and media...feed them enough lies and they'll soon be brainwashed into thinking that is perfectly normal to torment and even kill Palestinians...and if anyone says anything about it...its the fault of Hamas/the Palestinian people
Nope, don't see that Ernie.
I wasn't making an argument for them in that post, I was saying I understand why they are the way they are.
Here we go, here's something a bit more nuanced.
Considering that rather damning report about the Israeli collective Psyche, do you not think that the world would be better off trying to engage the Israelis rather than blaming/damning them for everything they do? And that the whole "the Palestinians as victims" dialogue is actually backing Israel further into a corner and making it act like a rabid dog?
well what did you expect when members of the Israeli government openly declare that their only solution to this is to carry out a mass genocide on the Palestinian population...this government policy/attitude then become the normal way of thinking for the general Israeli population as it is fed more lies and propaganda by the Israeli govt. and media...feed them enough lies and they'll soon be brainwashed into thinking that is perfectly normal to torment and even kill Palestinians...and if anyone says anything about it...its the fault of Hamas/the Palestinian people
The exact same argument could be made about Hamas and Palestine. They are far from being the innocent bystanders you make them out to be.
Where did you get the "jews run teh worldzzz" attitude from anyway? Jihadist websites?
Develop some actual critical thinking guys, instead of just going with whats in fashion or what's in the media.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” ? Mark Twain
I'm bored of this argument already.....no real challenge.
Where did you get the "jews run the world" attitude from anyway?
I'm sorry you are deeply confused, I haven't made any ridiculous claim that "jews run the world".
You are clearly imagining stuff which along with your complete inability to provide a single valid reason why a British Jew such as Dame Shirley Porter, for example, should have the right to live on Palestinian land, suggests a complete inability on your part to come up with any sort of coherent argument.
The best you can come up with is that you wouldn't have any qualms about dropping 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza. Which I guess says everything we need to know.
EDIT : Why have you edited "Where did you get the "jews run the world" attitude from anyway?" to "Where did you get the "jews run teh worldzzz" attitude from anyway?"
Did you think it would be more amusing ? 🙄
Who has said they are. however what this shows all but the zionists is that if you rob people of their country, encircle their land, deprive them of trade, resources and water, shoot them, murder them and bomb them from the skies that some of them will be angry enough to fight you. It does not make it their fault when they respond and it is not really that surprising.They are far from being the innocent bystanders you make them out to be.
It is rather like you are treating prisoners brutality and then when they riot you use that riot as a justification for your treatment as if it is their fault rather than yours.
I dont think anyone denies that [ some of] the palestinians need to change their attitudes. Its unlikely that current israeli policies will lead to an outbreak of brotherly love and mutual respect.
That wasn't aimed at you Ernie but Gonzy.
Stop resorting to emotional attacks and use some of your intellect. I was simply stating that I don't think I'd be better than any Israeli soldier or politician given the circumstances.
Who has said they are. however what this shows all but the zionists is that if you rob people of their country, encircle their land, deprive them of trade, resources and water, shoot them, murder them and bomb them from the skies that some of them will bet angry enough to fight you. It does not make it their fault when they respond?
Maybe they should recognize and come to terms with their role in the 1948 war?
Tell me Junky, do you think you are doing any good by feeding in to the meme that it's mostly all Israels fault? Do you actually think that attitude is conducive to peace?
That wasn't aimed at you Ernie but Gonzy.
So why did you start your post thus :
Tom_W1987 - MemberNope, don't see that Ernie.
I wasn't ......
You really are confused.
Dude, I quoted Gonzy or do you want me to double post to respond to different people?
Yes of course, say Ernie when you mean Gonzy.
Anyhow, since not only are you not making any sense, or providing any sort of intelligent argument, and now you've started calling me "dude", I think I'll leave it there.
do you not think that the world would be better off trying to engage the Israelis
The world has done nothing BUT engage the Israelis, giving them preferential trade status, taking part in educational exchanges, supplying them with military and nuclear technology, and giving them an easy ride in the media and an upper hand in negotiations. The result is, as we see, that they take all that as though they have a right to it, and demand ever more.
TOM do you think you are doing any good by feeding in to the meme that it's [s]mostly[/s] not at all Israels fault? Do you actually think that attitude is conducive to peace?
Cheap and tiresome way to avoid responding
If you treat people like animals they will behave like animals
I clearly stated in that post and others that [ some of ] the Palestinians are also to blame for the current situation
However the fact remains if you steal someones house and then hit them with a stick over and over again eventually they will strike back. It wont ever bring about peace. You know this as well hence why you dont even remotely respond to this point.
of course both sides need to change.
The world has done nothing BUT engage the Israelis, giving them preferential trade status, taking part in educational exchanges, supplying them with military and nuclear technology, and giving them an easy ride in the media and an upper hand in negotiations. The result is, as we see, that they take all that as though they have a right to it, and demand ever more.
Correction, the yank military industrial complex has. But outside of the US and Britain, the rest of the world really has not..... for about 20 years now.
Is all of Israel Palestinian land or was there ever a land purchase agreement?
Also any mention of Israeli Arabs who stayed after 1948, make up appx 20pct of the population - both Christian and Muslim - who have equal rights, are judges, members of the knesset etc.
Odd that for such an oppressive regime, muslims, Christians, druze can and do volunteer for the IDF. See Herev Batallion and Bedouin trackers unit for instance.
Odd that for such an oppressive regime, muslims, Christians, druze can and do volunteer for the IDF.
It's really quite unbelievable that anyone could try to make such a suggestion. The SADF (South African Defence Force) had black volunteers, does that mean that the Apartheid Regime didn't oppress the black majority ?
I guess when you are used to swallowing Zionist propaganda the absurdity of it all must fly straight over your head.
There were Jews in the Wehrmacht too btw.
Sorry are you suggesting any of the above is untrue?
A Druze officer now heads up the Golani Brigade. Israeli Arabs are in parliament.
And that as mentioned above Israeli Arabs or any other people with citizenship for that matter have full democratic rights, does that still constitute apartheid?
Seems that if isn't in the Guardain, can't be true.
Hardly Zionist propaganda. Look it up.
Woosh!
80 dead to Israeli air strikes, so far, god knows how many injured
0 dead from Palestinian rockets
More by chance and having the Iron Dome in place. But if and when that changes, would that make things better?
Last week a Gazan 3 yr old girl was killed when a rocket from Gaza landed on her.
No interest to the UK press unless fired from Israel. Or am I wrong?
No doubt one of you will be along to tell me so shortly.
can you say its wrong to kill folks and say its wrong for Israel to kill folks ? can you ?
Hamas killing folk is bad now over to you...go on give it a go.
If not you really should sort out your own one sided view rather than criticise others for it and invest in acquiring a moral compass 😥
Woosh + 1
Killing on either side is wrong, appalling and should have stopped years ago.
Here's something that Israelis state constantly, that they hope the situation will be better when their kids grow up and won't have to go to the military. It isn't a choice, it is and has been a necessity.
As for the moral compass, really?
In the UK, you don't get all the facts, you get a news story.
As mentioned previously, all I have attempted to do here is point out aspects that don't make the UK press that perhaps my ads something to the one sided views I have seen here.
Anything positive to say about Israel, anyone ? Bueller? Bueller ?
Anything positive to say about Israel, anyone ? Bueller? Bueller ?
It's great !
nim - instead of yet more whataboutery from you, how about answering this. Do you think Israel's current actions (and all those casualties as a result) are:
a) Proportionate?
b) Likely to be effective?
Killing on either side is wrong, appalling and should have stopped years ago.
One side is doing the vast, vast majority of the killing - and it's not the terrorists of Hamas.
In the UK, you don't get all the facts, you get a news story.
Where do you get your information from then?
Anything positive to say about Israel, anyone ? Bueller? Bueller ?
I hear there's a good PsyTrance scene, if that's your thing.
Anything positive to say about Israel, anyone
when they say they are leaving a thread they mean it ??
they understand sarcasm?
Mordechai Vanunu - that is a great name IMHO and a brave fellow
Amram Mitzan . Lt colonel Eli and his 27 mates very positive examples of true heroes from the IDF.
This summs up nicely:
Best post for a while. Just hope the ending isn't accurate.
I am reminded of an interview on the BBC with Israeli author Amos Oz conducted in the Negev desert near his home in Arad. He was looking out across the rocky wilderness, and noted that the same rocks had been lying there since prehistoric times, and had been fought over by so many different armies throughout history, and that when the Israelis and Palestinians have passed from memory, the same rocks will still be there baking in the sun.
nim - MemberAnd that as mentioned above Israeli Arabs or any other people with citizenship for that matter have full democratic rights, does that still constitute apartheid?
[b][i]"There are more than 50 Israeli laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life, including their rights to political participation, access to land, education, state budget resources, and criminal procedures"[/i][/b]
[url= http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-Database ]Discriminatory Laws in Israel[/url]
[url= http://www.amnesty.org.uk/discrimination-against-palestinians-israel#.U780u0D5fSg ]Amnesty International UK - Discrimination against Palestinians in Israel[/url]
[url= http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=219 ]Israel: A Democracy for Jews Only - Abuses Against its Palestinian-Arab
Citizens[/url]
[url= http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/the-laws-that-enshrine-israel-as-a-racist-state/ ]The laws that enshrine Israel as a racist state[/url]
[url= http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/a/GetDocumentAction/i/6677 ]Political Discrimination Against Arab Citizens of Israel[/url]
[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/22/opinion/22iht-edtibi.html?_r=0 ]The Other Citizens of Israel[/url]
Cannot wait to hear Nin blame them for this or suggest we read another media source ...perhaps he will call the posting of facts anti semitic?
Where did you get the "jews run teh worldzzz" attitude from anyway? Jihadist websites?
no i read news articles from across the globe....seems to be a lot of people out there who also believe this to be true....
i also like the way that you've managed to bring a whole new dimension to this debate...you've got nowhere with accusing me of being an anti-semite and a nazi...now you're going to suggest that because i am a muslim i must be getting my info from jihadist websites...therefore snidely accusing me of being a jihadist....
your comment now makes you one of 2 things...you're defending Israel becasue you either have a hatred of Palestinians because of their race which makes you a racist or because of their religion which makes you an islamophobe...
a few examples of Israeli kindness...
Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly populated area killing civilians including children?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International fordemolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic cleansing?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States , according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the U.S. ?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire villages while people are still in their homes?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles, bulldozers, or tanks?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections? ?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
Answer: Israel
Question: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
Answer: Israel
Question: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East created millions of refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?Answer: Israel
Question: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
Answer: Israel
Question: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters, killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents from USA and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union ?
Answer: Israel
Question: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon?
Answer: Israel
Question: What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite them once in their custody?
Answer: Israel
Question: What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in their Mosque.?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a civilian U.N. Refugee Camp in Qana , Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially children?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S. aid to the world yet is the 16th richest country in the world?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control America ?"
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more than 270 new settlements since the signing?
Answer: Israel
Question: Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of civilians in the process, including dozens of children?
Answer: Israel
@ gonzy sounds like you have a complete hatred of Israel judging by your recent posts !
talk about twisting mate
your comment now makes you one of 2 things...you're defending Israel becasue you either have a hatred of Palestinians because of their race which makes you a racist or because of their religion which makes you an islamophobe
not once has anyone said they dislike Palestinians as a people what they don't like is Hamas...
Why shouldn't Israel have nuclear weapons ? Every other 1st world country has them...
