@ gonzy sounds like you have a complete hatred of Israel judging by your recent posts !
I have a complete hatred of Israel which is indisputably a racist state, in exactly the same way as I had a complete hatred for the South African Apartheid state.
I would expect anyone who believes in justice to share in this hatred. I would consider any accusation of supporting Israel an insult, you can't both support Israel and support justice, the two are incompatible. As it would have been incompatible to support both the South African Apartheid state and justice.
I do of course however make a distinction between hating a state and hating people. I hate the ideologies that some people are committed to but not necessarily the people who espouse them. I consider hating people wholly unacceptable.
a few examples of Israeli kindness...
Third video - recognise the location?
@ gonzy sounds like you have a complete hatred of Israel judging by your recent posts !talk about twisting mate
why, because i'm showing Israel for what it really is?
we are discussing the actions of Israel in its systematic genocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestine, and if that makes me a hater of Israel then so be it...i havent once said that i have a hatred for the Israeli people. i've repeated on a number of occasions that my anger/hatred and condemnations are toward the country of Israel and its Zionist government
i'm not the one twisting things mate...so if you're going to lift one of my comments i'd rather you quoted it in its entirety rather than cherry picking the bits that you think will make me look like bad...what i said was aimed at Tom_W1987 who seems to have an issue with my comments in particular...and this is after he's called me a nazi and a jihadist...
[b]why, because i'm showing Israel for what it really is?[/b]
i'm not the one twisting things mate...we are discussing the actions of Israel in its systematic genocide/ethnic cleansing of Palestine, and the events in Syria are dragged in to deflect the attention (not by you but by another user who seems to be pro-Israeli)
also if you're going to lift one of my comments i'd rather you quoted it in its entirety rather than cherry picking the bits that you think will make me look like bad...what i said was aimed at Tom_W1987 who seems to have an issue with my comments in particular...and this is after he's called me a nazi and a jihadist...
But are you though ? Not really... maybe to this forum or any other you may go on but the rest of the world...
So if I stared saying how bad ****stan are would you mind ? Both countries are responsible for terrible things but yet it never gets said. ( ****stan as an example)
I'm mystified by the purpose of your last post ninfan, what exactly is the point you are trying to make ?
doublepost
So if I stared saying how bad ****stan are would you mind ? Both countries are responsible for terrible things but yet it never gets said. ( ****stan as an example)
Yet more 'whataboutery'. What ****stan may or may not have done has no relevance to what Israel is doing.
Also, ****stan is virtually a failed state where religious extremism is rife. Is that what you would like to be compared to?
'Don't ever criticise Israel because we're not quite as bad as them'. What a wonderful argument.
Ernie - erm, that the video put out there by gonzy as proof of 'Israeli kindness' - a news item that showed two palestinian youths getting shot and killed, was fake!
grum - MemberSo if I stared saying how bad ****stan are would you mind ? Both countries are responsible for terrible things but yet it never gets said. ( ****stan as an example)
Yet more 'whataboutery'. What ****stan may or may not have done has no relevance to what Israel is doing.Also, ****stan is virtually a failed state where religious extremism is rife. [b]Is that what you would like to be compared to? [/b]'Don't ever criticise Israel because we're not quite as bad as them'. What a wonderful argument.
Easy fella...I'm me... not a country...I'm not responsible for what is happening.
@ unfitgeezer
like i've said many times before we are not discussing Syria, ****stan, Burma, Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan etc. here....we're talking about what Israel is doing to Palestine.
you want to talk about the other countries and whats going on there then thats fine...but do it on another thread. i'll join you as i'd equally like to voice my criticisms of whats going on there too.
Easy fella...I'm me... not a country...I'm not responsible for what is happening.
Quite obvious I meant is that what you would like Israel to be compared to. Picking apart petty grammar points instead of actually engaging in the debate - well done you. 🙄
[url= http://defence.pk/threads/footage-of-palestinian-boys-being-shot-is-genuine-says-israeli-rights-group.315374/ ]http://defence.pk/threads/footage-of-palestinian-boys-being-shot-is-genuine-says-israeli-rights-group.315374/[/url]
Ernie - erm, that the video put out there by gonzy as proof of 'Israeli kindness' - a news item that showed two palestinian youths getting shot and killed, was fake!
Faked by who ? And Why ?
Are you attempting to do what I think you are attempting to do, ie, to suggest that allegations of Israeli brutality against Palestinians are false ?
That Israelis don't shoot and kill children ?
Have you lost your marbles ? Israeli brutality against Palestinians is very well documented (whatever an alleged fake video with no sound made by unknown people with an unknown agenda that you might choose to post might suggest) People such as western reporters/photographers have paid with their lives for reporting Israeli brutality.
Perhaps you might also want to convince us that Israeli operations in Gaza at the present involve dropping harmless bombs which when they explode scatter sweets for the children, and that Israeli intentions are being completely misreported ?
Z11 Elders Of Zion is not exactly a news source and would be more than capable of editing a video. But seriously what is your point are the palisinian casualties all fakes ? do the idf never kill anyone except a clearly identified Hamas fighter ?is gaza a really cool Center parc s with bad PR.?
Or do one element of an oppressed people with little resources occasionally resort to dodgy propaganda in a war where the other side have a well funded first world army and airforce and think it acceptable to deliberately kill civilians because there may be terrorists hiding among them and anyway the fired a blank missile into their house 30 seconds before and only an enemy fighter would not realise that was a friendly warning that the house was about to be hit by a live missile.
Question
If Israel and Palestine stopped firing missiles and a ceasefire was held...
What if Hamas then fired a rocket over say 8hrs later for no reason other than they felt like it...
Are Israel allowed to fire back to defend themselves ?
Unfitgeezr how is that self defence ? That is retaliation. Self defense would be the very successful Israeli counter missile system .
But semantics aside the answer is in your question if A and B agree a truce is it OK for A to attack B in breach of that truce if C attacks A . Your question demonstrates the evil of the current Israeli policy of collective punishment. It is OK to kill any Palestinian because some Palestinians are in Hamas .
Would it make it better if the Israeli army went in and took them out individually ? Which of course you know isn't possible due to the way Hamas operate and choose their hideouts...in the built up population.
What's your answer then ? How would you stop the fighting ?
What's your answer then ? How would you stop the fighting ?
Dismantle all the illegal settlements and give back all the stolen land. Immediately.
Stop treating Palestinians in Israel as second class citizens. Allow refugees the right to return to their homes. Stop bulldozing innocent peoples' homes.
Dismantle all the illegal settlements and give back all the stolen land. Immediately.
What land would that be?
Anyway
There are more balanced arguments on there.
QuestionIf Israel and Palestine stopped firing missiles and a ceasefire was held...
What if Hamas then fired a rocket over say 8hrs later for no reason other than they felt like it...
Are Israel allowed to fire back to defend themselves ?
You haven't even conceded that the Palestinians people have the right to defend themselves against illegal and hostile acts by the Israelis, so I think you've got a bit of a nerve talking about the right of Israelis to defend themselves.
Thieves and murders should stop stealing and killing, rather than claim the right to defend themselves as they go about their illegal business.
What's your answer then ? How would you stop the fighting ?
Go back to pre 1967 borders, show the world that they want to live in peace and then enlist other countries to help it happen?
You haven't even conceded that the Palestinians people have the right to defend themselves against illegal and hostile acts by the Israelis, so I think you've got a bit of a nerve talking about the right of Israelis to defend themselves.Thieves and murders should stop stealing and killing, rather than claim the right to defend themselves as they go about their illegal business.
Palestinians right to defend themselves includes intentionally targeting non-combatants?
Let's establish the fact that Palestinians have the right to defend themselves before discussing what constitutes a legitimate target.
The Zionists on this thread haven't recognised the fact that Palestinians have any right at all to defend themselves.
The Zionists on this thread haven't recognised the fact that Palestinians have any right at all to defend themselves.
nor will they ever...
Palestinians right to defend themselves includes intentionally targeting non-combatants?
What's worse, intentionally targeting non-combatants and not killing any - or not caring about killing non-combatants and killing dozens and dozens?
What's worse, intentionally targeting non-combatants and not killing any - or not caring about killing non-combatants and killing dozens and dozens?
Except they did recently didn't they and they did so quite effectively in the past before the introduction of Iron Dome.
Except they did recently didn't they and they did so quite effectively in the past before the introduction of Iron Dome.
Which side would you say has been most *effective* at targeting non-combatants in recent years?
Tom_W1987 - MemberPalestinians right to defend themselves includes intentionally targeting non-combatants?
If it works for the Israelis, it should work for the Palestinians, right?
I like all the new weapon technologies coming out from Israel as they are very inventive.
Oh ya, this Iron Dome is good.
Except they did recently didn't they and they did so quite effectively in the past before the introduction of Iron Dome.
Well that's yet more nonsense if you look at the Palestinian/Israeli casualty figures.
BTW it's interesting to note that Iron Dome defence system would not have been possible had the US not helped to pay for it.
It's also interesting to note that the US will not help the Palestinians to have an anti-missile system to defend themselves from attacks from Israel. It seems that Palestinians dying from illegal Israeli attacks don't matter as much as Israelis.
Western hypocrisy knows no bounds. And then unbelievably some people genuinely ask "why do they hate the West so much in the Middle East?".
ernie_lynch - MemberBTW it's interesting to note that Iron Dome defence system would not have been possible had the US not helped to pay for it.
That's called good effective relationship networking ... they got friends.
It's also interesting to note that the US will not help the Palestinians to have an anti-missile system to defend themselves from attacks from Israel.
Of course they will not once the bearded blokes got the technology you will have another bunch of fanatics to deal with.
Oh ya ... the main reason is that they both have different gods.
It seems that Palestinians dying from illegal Israeli attacks don't matter as much as Israelis.
Ya, but they still don't get the message don't they? I mean give up claiming the land back. Israel has won. Move on ... 🙄
chewkw thank you for increasing the credibility of my comments by not agreeing with me.
😆
ernie_lynch - Memberchewkw thank you for increasing the credibility of my comments by not agreeing with me.
😆 Ya, nobody cares about the bearded blokes in that region ... getting really fed up with them lot.
Ya, but the truth is that soon the land will become greater Israel and the opposing population will become "Egyptians" once they start migrating.
So am I now the Zionists from Matrix? It's from the Matrix, ya? Yes! 😆
Why shouldn't Israel have nuclear weapons ? Every other 1st world country has them..
Canada, spain, Germany, Australia, new zeland...do you want some more or will you at least concede that point is wrong?
What if Hamas then fired a rocket over say 8hrs later for no reason other than they felt like it...Are Israel allowed to fire back to defend themselves ?
Yes they should phosphorous bomb a school if the terrorists do shit like that and the west should applaud them for "defending themselves.
Israel response is like me being in the street and someone throws a stone at me and it misses. i then go round to his house and blow it up with an RPG , kill some people "accidentally" and then blame them for starting it.
IMHO you also need to decide if the "attack" actually caused harm if it did not WTF are you defending yourself from exactly?
I might also want to think about whwther they threw the stone at me because i robbed all their belongings and kicked them out of their home, killed their relatives and then made them live in abject poverty before responding ...but that is just me...your answer please?
Bet Hamas will have a handful with ISIS soon coz the other bearded blokes don't like them. The latter got bigger beard I think. 😯
Edit: ISIS will wipe Hamas off the map regardless, while Israel will leave them alone so long as they don't bother them.
Please stop.
Canada, spain, Germany, Australia, new zeland...do you want some more or will you at least concede that point is wrong?
Apparently - Germany have them as part of the NATO weapons sharing deal
You make a good point though - surprised how few states have Nukes
[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons ]who has nukes?[/url]
Hint - Israel is the little yellow dot on the map
Nice link and interesting as i did no tknow that however
In peace time, the nuclear weapons stored in non-nuclear countries are guarded by U.S. airmen though previously some artillery and missile systems were guarded by US Army soldiers; the codes required for detonating them are under American control. In case of war, the weapons are to be mounted on the participating countries' warplanes. The weapons are under custody and control of USAF Munitions Support Squadrons co-located on NATO main operating bases who work together with the host nation forces.[2]
Interesting though I knew nothing of this arrangement so cheers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing
Germany's nuclear sharing is basically a withered limb now though, just a small number of fighter-deployed battlefield weapons and they're actively disarming even those (though might keep a smattering) and IIRC are going to have no fighters capable of using them shortly.
Makes you feel a bit sick doesn't it; especially the selfies part at the end. The Israeli's are going to get much much worse as this generation gets older...... Hopefully the US will step in before they go through with their ethnic cleansing threats.
Israel response is like me being in the street and someone throws a stone at me and it misses. i then go round to his house and blow it up with an RPG , kill some people "accidentally" and then blame them for starting it.
Actually its more like this:
You're at home, and there's a gang trying to shoot you & your family from the 'nice house' [replaces 'squat' / Edit for Northwind] opposite. They don't kill you, because after nine years of them doing this with varying frequency, you've invested in some descent protection for you're house, but your by no means completely safe.
You have a gun, its bigger and better than theirs, but you don't ever use it, because you're waiting till one of your family gets shot, so you can claim proportionality & because you're afraid what the neighbors will say... oops scratch that - that's you're version. --- you have a gun, its bigger and better than theirs, and for every shot that gets fired at you're well protected house, you shoot back at their 'nice house' [NW edit]. You know that the gang tend to shoot from the bedroom containing all the woman buy you do it anyway. Sometimes you shoot one of the shooters, sometimes you shoot one of their girlfriends.
Every time you shoot one of their girlfriends, a bunch of people in a forum far away who've never been to your house, no nothing about the gang and have never been shot at are completely outraged by your action. meanwhile, the 'nice house opposite' [NW edit] has a never ending supply of gang members that are sworn to continue shooting at you till you and your family are dead, and the house can be vacated.
These references to 'bearded blokes' trivialises and infantilises the debate. The hasidic community is full of bearded blokes many of whom, incidentally, are anti-Zionist. Focus please on the evidence and the arguments, not on people's appearance (beards, noses, hats,knifed nobs, scarves, porcinophobia seem to be common amongst [u]all[/u] semitic peoples.)
