[Closed] How come UN resolutions and the Geneva Convention don't apply to Israel?

Israel wants that strip of land. I think we'll see a form of genocide and mass dispersion of Palestinians.

The disgust that this caused a CNN reporter resulted in her to being removed from reporting the conflict :

CNN Removes Reporter Diana Magnay From Israel-Gaza After 'Scum' Tweet

CNN has removed correspondent Diana Magnay from covering the Israeli-Palestinian conflict after she tweeted that Israelis who were cheering the bombing of Gaza, and who had allegedly threatened her, were “scum.”

I think "scum" is far too light of a term to be used, i think zionist c...s would be far more appropriate.

It the world wasnt so corrupt a UN intervention would be on the cards, not a chance though.

This is all just very very sad now - both sides need to pack in the violence that is only jilling civilians but i suppose when will the point come when Israel have taken so much land there is nothing left to loose and conflict is the only way.

I expect Israel are now restricting vital supplies into the area too, after all, its perfectly normal to restrict deliveries into somebody elses country.... total nonsense.

@ernie I think after many years of having to run to air-raid shelters there is a portion of the Israeli population that are quite happy to watch their armed forces respond. I'm not condoning it but its understandable. I worked in NY during the first gulf war and colleagues would stand around the TV and cheer film of missiles hitting buildings.

I expect Israel are now restricting vital supplies into the area too, after all, its perfectly normal to restrict deliveries into somebody elses country.... total nonsense.

In my entire lifetime this region has always been somewhere in the headlines, it's absolutely tragic, on [u]both[/u] sides. Just stop killing each other people.

And now this....

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/gaza-crisis-unsc-and-obama-call-for-immediate-ceasefire-live-updates ]Now hospitals aren't safe[/url]

jambalaya - Member

@crankrider Egypt closed their border sometime ago, that's why Hammas built tunnels there so they can bring in weapons, drugs and generally smuggle stuff. Its not just Israel which has closed it's border.

While that's true, it's Israel that blockade the sea routes ("coincidentally" hammering their fishing industry and contributing to the food shortages in Gaza)

@crankrider Egypt closed their border sometime ago, that's why Hammas built tunnels there so they can bring in weapons, drugs and generally smuggle stuff.

I thought they were mainly using the tunnels to smuggle in much more sinster stuff like: food, medicine, mattress, concrete and construction materials.

Weapons were never the major import through these things, as you can't eat rockets, and they make terrible beds and shelter.

this so called war the Israelis wage on the Palestinian people is not a war...its an illegal act of aggressive genocide...what modern day military force targets innocent civilians?

the 3 Israeli boys were never killed by Hamas or any Palestinians...no evidence has been produced to back this up and neither has anyone stepped froward to claim responsibility as they normally would do

the real reason why they are destroying Gaza...

a sample if the Israeli propaganda...
[img] [/img]

the 3 Israeli boys [b]were never killed by Hamas or any Palestinians[/b]...no evidence has been produced to back this up and neither has anyone stepped froward to claim responsibility as they normally would do

The Israeli's aren't destroying Gaza or conducting a genocide, if they really wanted to do that the level of destruction would be a 1000 times greater and they could do it without risking their ground troops. The ground troops are there to find and destroy the tunnel networks used by the terrorists to infiltrate Israel.

Within Israel I think it's fair to say the vast majority believe the boys where killed by Hamas/extremists to provoke a conflict.

That doesn't make it true. "The vast majority" of Zionists think that they have a God-given right to drive Palestinians from their land, that isn't true either.

And as for the rocket attacks (which have gone on for years) they alone are sufficient to justify the reaction by Israel ..

That's bollocks. Hamas rockets are in retaliation for being attacked by Israel. Provide some evidence that since the last round of hostilities in 2012 Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel, if that's what you're claiming.

I think you are in a small minority if you believe this. Within Israel I think it's fair to say the vast majority believe the boys where killed by Hamas/extremists to provoke a conflict.

a small minority you say? not from where i am standing its not a small minority...
who said the palestinians or hamas did this? what proof has been presented to back this up?
or maybe everyone should accept the word of Netanyahu as gospel...
the funny thing is that it seems evident that reports are coming in that the 3 boys in question had died several days earlier and this was known by the Israeli government...they imposed a media ban to stop this from being reported so it would further anger the Israeli people and incite further hatred towards the Palestinians
also these boys were snatched from the from Israeli controlled territory in the west bank and their bodies were later found again in Israeli controlled territory in the west bank. can you explain how they were kidnapped when at the time the checkpoints were already on lockdown to prevent any movement of Palestinians? can you also explain how the 3 boys were taken into Palestinian controlled territory to be kept hostage for a week before being murdered and having their bodies dumped back on Israeli territory...all without the IDF spotting them?
also can you explain why there is a recoding of a phone recording of the kidnapping from one of the boys phones where instructions can be heard given to the boys in hebrew?
so when all this started off in the West Bank...the Israeli military decided that it would be a good idea to collectively punish the people of Gaza?

did the IDF find a tunnel on the beach those 4 boys were playing on?
did they find a tunnel at Al-Wafa hospital that they destroyed?
again the so-called tunnels that the Israelis claim exist but have never shown to the world.
what the Israelis are doing is a systematically slow and tortuous form of genocide...they indiscriminate kill women and children...destroy hospitals so that they haven't managed to kill outright but have injured will die die a slow painful death due to a lack of urgent medical treatment facilities....

as for the UK and US governments...they will never condemn the actions of the Israelis as they are equally guilty. the Americans have continuously armed the Israelis enabling them to continue their attacks on Gaza...while the UK government is responsible in taking land of the Palestinians and giving it to the Israelis giving them a foothold on the region and thus allowing them to illegally land grab more of Palestine whilst displacing Palestinians.
i suggest you sit on your arse instead of talking out of it

@Jambalaya

which tunnel was this child hiding in?
[img] [/img]

maybe the tunnel is here?
[img] [/img]

or maybe the tunnel is here...

While graphic photos make a point they do so in an unnecessary and unpleasant way . I am sure everyone on here who wants to challenge the Invasion/atrocities of the Israelis and indeed Hamas can do so without resorting to images that not only horrify the observer but also exploit and in many ways dehumanise the victims.

If that was my child I would have many needs and desires but his image being circulated in internet arguments would not be among them.

Maybe there's a tunnel under the hospital that they were shelling this morning?

While graphic photos make a point they do so in an unnecessary and unpleasant way

I don't agree at all. I think it's vital we all see the reality of what is going on, as 'unnecesary and unpleasant' as you may think. Those pictures have made me feel physically sick, but they inform me of the reality.

Hamas can do so without resorting to images that not only horrify the observer but also exploit and in many ways dehumanise the victims.

Who says it's just Hamas doing this? 'Neutral' journaists from arond the world are gathering evidence like this; it's not propaganda, it's truth. It's saying 'this is what you've done' This is what you're ignoring'. And those perptrating such actus of inhumanioty need to be confrnted with the consequences of their actions.

If that was my child

It's not your child. Don't aply your values, sensibilities and ideals to a situation you are not involved in.

Regards hospitals:

1 Min 30s

@gonzy - there are plenty of tunnels people could have used to enter Israel from Gaza to kidnap the boys. This is one of the main reasons the IDF are targeting the destruction/disabling of of the tunnel network. There are also plenty of Palestinian villages throughout Israel, I mention this as you implied Zionists where trying to drive Palestinians from all of Israel which is not the case. I assume you are posting from the UK when you say "plenty round here", fact is what we in the UK think doesn't really matter in this conflict. I'll dig out some statistics on Hamas rockets, they have been firing them pretty consistently for many years. As one of the UK Ministers said most in the UK don't know this as it's not reported week to week in the UK.

I have posted a number of times very sadly civilian casualties are a by product of every war in modern times. It is a fact that Hamas launch their rockets from civilian areas. The IDF posted satellite images of a rocket launcher in the grounds of one of the hospitals. The UN was pretty unhappy to find one of it's schools being used as a rocket store.

Hopefully Hammas will agree to the terms of the Egyptian cease-fire

ninfan - Member

Regards hospitals:

1 Min 30s

I saw that original report on the telly Z-11, what's your point ?

That Hamas fire rockets from sites near hospitals ? Well that's hardly surprising is it, as Gaza has one of the very highest concentration of people on Earth. It's a tiny strip of land w packed with Palestinian refugees who have been driven from their lands. By definition wherever Hamas launch their defensive counterattacks it will be near homes, schools, or hospitals. There are no vast empty spaces in Gaza where they can operate from.

But more important than that, Israel would never dream of launching an attack against a hospital which was filled with sick and wounded Jewish patients, irrespective of whether Hamas was operating from nearby.

They wouldn't risk killing Jews, ever, but they are perfectly prepared to risk killing Arabs because Arab lives are worthless to them.

Israel is an extremely nasty racist country, that is precisely why they are finding themselves increasingly isolated with fewer and fewer friends in the world.

@gonzy - re giving the boys instructions in Hebrew its very likely that was the only language they spoke, so the captors give instructions in that language rather than say Arabic or English. It's scary that people would get sucked in by a conspiracy theory in such a way.

Israel is an extremely nasty racist country, that is precisely why they are finding themselves increasingly isolated with fewer and fewer friends in the world.

You need to remember the Jewish people have been persecuted in Eastern and Western Europe and in North Africa, places where they had lived within communities peacefully often for 1000's of years. They where given a homeland after WW2 so that they would have a safe place to live. The majority of the Arab world accepted this but the Palestinians, or a faction of them, whose land was designated as Israel have said they will never accept this. There was relative peace in Israel and Gaza before Hammas was elected, their agenda and stance is much more aggressive and confrontational.

I think you are wrong about them being increasingly isolated with fewer and fewer friends. It's clear that's you'd like to be the case but it's not the case.

Hopefully Hammas will agree to the terms of the Egyptian cease-fire

Hamas were ready for a ceasefire over 2 weeks ago, but Israel wasn't.

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28156268 ]Hamas 'ready for Gaza ceasefire' if Israeli raids stop[/url]

And at the end of the article is the [i]real[/i] reason why Israel attacked Gaza :

[i]"It comes after the bodies of the three Israeli seminary students were found near the city of Hebron on Monday, two-and-a-half weeks after they were abducted. Their funerals took place on Tuesday.

[b]Mr Netanyahu blamed their deaths on Hamas and called on Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to abandon a partnership his Fatah movement had struck with the group[/b]. Hamas has denied any involvement in the murders".[/i]

"Mr Netanyahu blamed their deaths on Hamas and called on Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to abandon a partnership his Fatah movement had struck with the group" is what all this is about. The last thing Hamas wanted just at the time that they were reaching a US/EU backed deal with Fatah was a conflict with Israel.

Israel stage managed all this and exploited the murder of the 3 teenagers to hit Hamas and isolate it. It was in Israeli's interest to have this conflict, not Hamas's.

@ernie - it was not in Israel's interest to have this conflict. Netanyahu is a moderate leader, there are others more confrontational than him. He wanted to avoid this.

The Israeli's honoured the ceasefire and then filmed large numbers of heavily armed Hamas terrorists emerging from tunnels in Israel to attack local communities including a Kibbutz. The ceasefire ended when those terrorists where killed. Throughout the ceasefire Hammas kept firing rockets. Hammas are only interested in a war and in the destruction of Israel. It's all they stand for.

Well at least you've now put your cards on the table re: your views of the country.

No I haven't "now put my cards on the table", I have always consistently expressed my distaste for Israel which I consider every bit as abhorrent as Apartheid South Africa, in fact more so - the Apartheid regime wasn't as brutal. You obviously haven't read my previous posts. I would be ashamed to support Israel.

Stoffel I seriously doubt you didn't realise killing children was wrong until you saw a picture of exposed brains and I have the same doubts that you think Palestinian fathers love and respect their children less than middle-class English fathers. The pictures do not need to be circulated as some form of horror top trumps on an internet forum. They have a massive value and should exist to document that which has been done and to bring the Israelis to account . But personally i think out of respect and so as not to devalue them they should not become the common currency of debate .
My bad grammar on the hamas point I was not seeking to suggest they took or circulated the pictures but to cover the possibility of the pro Zionists seeking to depoly their own causality porn .Not that the current events have generated the chance for any such images .

Netanyahu is a moderate leader, there are others more confrontational than him.

There are without doubt worse people than Netanyahu, so yes I guess that by Zionist standards the man who orders the bombing of civilians can be viewed as a moderate, which says all you need to know about Zionists.

Shall we talk about the Rabbi who at the funeral of a Zionist mass murder declared [i]"even one million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail"[/i] ?

Following on from the hospital video - BBC news reports a hospital has been hit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28399292

After that video of Israeli's laughing and cheering at missiles hitting Gaza I almost hope they are dealt some of their own medicine but that would be wrong as innocents would die:

With the weaponry Israel have bought from the USA hitting a hospital is totally unacceptable and surely must be a war crime.

Sickening and disproportionate response to handmade junk rockets that are being launched - It really is david and goliath and its time a cease fire is reached and terms are made for both sides to back the hell off and Israel to stop stealing more land they do not own.

Russia is using military weapons to kill European civilians and USA is using military weapons to kill Arab civilians.

Remind me again why we are supposed to worried about the Chinese?

I don't think we are suppose to be in the least bit worried about the Chinese.

IanW - Member

Russia is using military weapons to kill European civilians and USA is using military weapons to kill Arab civilians.

Remind me again why we are supposed to worried about the Chinese?

Because they are not controlled by a Rothschild imposed banking system and do not behave in a manner that our government can spin as 'radicalised'...

About sums it up:[img] [/img]

Because they are not controlled by a Rothschild imposed banking system ......

So the Chinese have finally broken the Rothschild-Jewish Conspiracy ?

That's relief, after two centuries of Rothschild-Jewish Conspiracy the Chinese come along with all their money and refuse to be part of it.

Well thank **** for that. No more worrying about the New World Order or dodgy pyramids with evil eyes.

.

...and do not behave in a manner that our government can spin as 'radicalised'...

Yes of course, our government could never describe the Chinese as radicals because they are so obviously moderate.

I'm firmly on the Palestinians side but we should also be aware that there is a significant amount of Jews in Israel (and outside) who vehemently oppose what it being done in their name, perhaps it doesn't get reported as it should but many Jews are sickened and appalled at what the Zionists and IDF are doing in Gaza/Palestine.

@jambalaya
you still havent answered my question...those three boys were kidnapped from the West Bank and their bodies were "discovered" in the West Bank...so why are the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip being targeted?
if you want I'll answer it for you...too many illegal Israeli settlers live in the West Bank so the IDF wouldn't take the risk of hurting its own...whereas it can carry out its collective punishment policy on Gaza as they're penned in with nowhere to go...a bit like shooting fish in a barrel...but who cares? the Israelis obviously don't as they have proved again and again that the life of a Palestinian is nothing compared to that of an Israeli.

You need to remember the Jewish people have been persecuted in Eastern and Western Europe and in North Africa, places where they had lived within communities peacefully often for 1000's of years. They where given a homeland after WW2 so that they would have a safe place to live. The majority of the Arab world accepted this but the Palestinians, or a faction of them, whose land was designated as Israel have said they will never accept this.

@ crankboy
i'm sorry but i have to disagree with you regarding the posting of images and videos of the carnage.
they are not part of some sort of propaganda drive. these images and videos are being used by the mainstream media...but the propagsandist outlets like the BBC choose to use some of the less sensitive ones as they dont want to paint the actions of the IDF as too aggressive.
the world needs to see what is happening in Gaza.
the only way people can grasp the true scale of what is happening there is to see the carnage the Israelis are causing. and if that involves me posting pictures of a dead child with half his/her head blown off or a young man being shot dead by a sniper live on camera then so be it.

these are the brutal realities of war that no-one wants to see. you say that if it was your children your needs would be different? how? you look at things from the Palestinian perspective....they have no-one to turn to...their children are being killed so why would they not show the worlds media their dead children in the hope that someone may take notice and do something to help them?
if that was you you would do the same...anyone would.

just to further reinforce the need for these images...it was perfectly acceptable for the world to see images and videos of what the victims of the holocaust went through...the emaciated bodies of the survivors and bodies of the dead....this brought home the true horrors of what the nazis had done...so why cant the world accept seeing the true horrors of what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians?

you still havent answered my question...those three boys were kidnapped from the West Bank and their bodies were "discovered" in the West Bank...so why are the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip being targeted?

One is ruled by Fatah, and isn't firing rockets at Israel

The other is ruled by Hamas, who are firing hundreds of rockets at Israel

so when some Israeli youths are kidnapped and killed in Fatah/Israeli controlled West Bank its perfectly logical for the Israelis to blame Hamas in Gaza and then start an all out war against them and justify it by saying "well they're throwing fireworks at us"...
thanks for clearing that up...makes sense(!)

Fireworks?

Fireworks?

The Jews have always been a persecuted people. If you study their history, you'll find that great injustices were inflicted upon them over a period spanning thousands of years

They were systematically oppressed and treated like slaves by the Pharoah of Egypt (Ramesses) and were eventually saved by the Prophet Moses.

They were butchered by the Eastern Byzantine Romans who saw them as a ruling threat since they didn't share the empire's pagan beliefs. They were eventually saved by second Islamic Caliph, Umar ibn Al-Khattab who allowed the Jews to live freely under his rule ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(637).

They were exiled from Jerusalem by the Christians of Europe after their initially successful religious crusade of the Holy Lands. At a local level, the preaching of the First Crusade ignited violence against Jews, which some historians have deemed "the first Holocaust" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade).

The Jews were eventually rescued by Salahadin Al-Ayubi where they were allowed to live in Palestine freely under the protection of the Muslims.
( http://www.whyislam.org/muslim-world/salahuddin-ayyubi-saladin/).

The Jews in al-Andalus (Southern Spain and Portugal) were treated as second class citizens by the Christian rulers and often faced persecution for having different beliefs. When the Muslims conquered this region, Jews were welcomed in from all over the world to live under the protection of the Muslim Caliph. This gave rise to the "Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain).

After the fall of al-Andalus in 1492, the incoming Christians banished the Jews from Spain who followed the Muslims to their lands.

The Jewish people faced momentous anti semitism throughout Western and Eastern Europe in the 19th and early 20th century. Much of it came as a result of bitter resentment due to the Jewish communities success in the financial markets as well as the intra-religious networks of Jewish trade which allowed the Jews to flourish. With the sanctions put on Germany after the Great War (World War One) and the subsequent rise of the Nationalistic party, the Nazis led by Hitler, the Jews became an easy scapegoat and became even more of a target. This brutal regime executed Jews by firing squads and sent masses to concentration camps to be gassed in un-ventilated chambers for simply being Jews. This would later be known as the Holocaust.

When the Nazis took over large parts of France including Paris, it was the predominantly North African Muslims in Paris who went out of their way, putting themselves in danger to protect the Jews. An independent French produced movie released in 2011 "Les Homme Libres" - "Free Men" in English - describes how the former Imam of the Grande Mosquée de Paris, Si Kaddour Ben Gabrit, offered shelter and Muslim identity to Jews. The mosque would house Jews in the basement away from Nazi soldiers and would provide false "Shahadah Certificates" to testify that they were in fact Muslims in the event that Nazi soldiers suspected they were Jews.

During this time, the one place where Jews did not face any discrimination and had been living alongside the Muslims for centuries was the Arab World, more specifically, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. These countries had a higher number of Jews compared to the other Arab nations at the time. These countries were historically ruled under the supervision of the Islamic Caliph which gave freedom and protection to the Jews.

After thousands of years of Anti-Jewish sentiment, I can understand why the Jewish people felt the need to have their own state. A state where they could defend themselves from the evil consequences of Anti-Semitism. A state where they were liberated and free to practise their faith openly. After all, they had been persecuted by the Ancient Egyptians, The Romans, the Catholics and the Protestants. But during this time, the one group of people who always allowed the Jews their rights and protected them were the Muslims.

After the Second World War, a growing movement to put pressure on Europe to provide the Jews with their own independent state started gaining momentum. Not all Jews agreed to this since traditional orthodox Jews believe that the state of Zion will only form after the coming of their awaited Messiah. The Jews who ignored this became known as 'Zionists'. These European Zionist Jews asked the British for a large region of land which was under British control after the fall of the Islamic Caliphate. This land that was initially promised to be given to the treacherous Amir of Makkah as a gift for fighting against the Caliphate. This piece of land had a population over 90% Muslim. This land is were Jews were always given sanctity under the Muslim governance. The Zionists asked for Palestine and they were eventually given it. European Zionists literally arrived in their thousands and drove the indigenous Arab Muslims out by force and murder. The Zionists have been capturing more and more land every single day since. Their aim is to cleanse the region of Muslims by a variety of different means; intimidation, stealing of land, discrimination via two-tier system, sanctions on movement and ownership and murder.

Just thought you guys should know the historical relationship between the Jewish and Muslim people..

Graphic of rocket attacks on Israel.

"Only" 41 in 2013, call it one a week. The 450 in 2014 was BEFORE the current conflict, since it started Hamas have fired another 1600 rockets. If the Israel's didn't have their defensive system many would be killed, these rockets have no guidance system so they are indiscriminate. As I've posted before the US and UK are supporting Israel against the Hamas terrorists as its the right thing to do. Kerry said yesterday it was their actions where "legitimate". They have to nullify the capacity of Hamas to fire these rockets and to launch terror attacks from tunnels.

[img] [/img]

The death of the young boys was terrible. One note is the reference to them being on the beach. What I recall from the BBC TV report at the time is that they where on a dock when the Israeli's attacked a boat which they believed had been used to launch seaborne terror attacks. They where not on the beach as such. Sadly many civilians are killed in modern day conflicts which tend to be fought in cities, this is true in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Modern weaponry is such that fighters hide in cities as to be in the open in a traditional battlefield is too dangerous.

One note is the reference to them being on the beach. What I recall from the BBC TV report at the time is that they where on a dock when the Israeli's attacked a boat which they believed had been used to launch seaborne terror attacks. They where not on the beach as such.

Not according to [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/16/witness-gaza-shelling-first-hand-account ]this[/url] witness report. The first missile hit the harbour wall which prompted the children to start running, on the beach, towards a hotel where journalists were staying. The next mortars didn't strike in the same place but seem to have been retargeted to the beach.....

funny you should mention that because the eyewitness video that i saw was actually recorded by a western journalist. the beach was close by to an area where there were a lot of journalists staying whilst reporting on Gaza.
they ran onto the beach after hearing the shell exploding and as they ran onto the beach they saw one boy being carried off the beach and as they got onto the beach they saw the bodies of 2 more boys on the sand....you say a dock was targeted and the boys were struck there...it must have been one hell of a rocket to send them flying all the way onto the beach...or maybe you are just trying to justify the targeted killing of 4 young boys by spinning a few lies around it...

like i said before you should sit on your arse instead of talking out of it

No matter how many rockets are fired into Israel.

How can you justify killing innocent men, women and children? How can you target somewhere knowing you will be killing men, women and children who are nothing to do with the violence?

Saying 'we dropped leaflets telling people to leave'. Leave where? Where will they go? Swim in the sea? Where the Israeli Navy are? Flee where exactly? We all know the refugee camps are death as well.

No one will take on Israel, as they know the US leadership is riddled with sympathisers.

Sad graphic from the telegraph

[img] [/img]

Don't see the same coverage from our own allied efforts in Iraq and afghqanistan

then you have zionist devils such as that piss poor excuse for a human being Ayelet Shaked encouraging the hatred and genocide by saying that all Palestinians need to be wiped out
and now you have another namely Mordechae Kedar, an Israeli scholar of Arabic lit and lecturer at Bar-Ilan University, saying that raping Palestinian mothers and sisters is more than an acceptable tactic. He actually decrees rape.
On a talk radio show he casually said,

The only thing that could deter a suicide bomber is knowing that if caught, his sister or his mother would be raped.

Back to that pesky data, casualty stats (using Al Jazeera data) for operation protective edge (up till 19th July):

[img] [/img]

@gonzy you've descended back to personal insults once again. If you want a discussion based on different points of view you'll have to restrain yourself.

You are quite correct in that Jews and Muslims lived together for 1000's of years (I said the same myself) but since the formation of Israel that changed as I posted from the 50's onwards Jews wehre expelled from Northern Africa (Morocco/Tunisia)and their homes and possessions effectively stolen.

The kidnap took place in the West Bank as that is where the most Jews where to be found and where they move about relatively freely. It's only 50 miles from Gaza. Those who live nearer Gaza are far more cautious and certainly wouldn't hitch hike.

@notter, thanks for your post I hadn't seen that. I only saw the original BBC piece.

I read that Israel has located 66 tunnels with 25 different access points and over 1000 missiles, I hope once these have been destroyed they will think that is sufficient.

I hope the cease-fire talks are successful. Hamas will have to drop the open borders demand as Israel will not agree to it and I suspect neither will Egypt.

@gonzy on the rape comment above I would say there are extreme views on both sides on this conflict. It does not surprise me to see some Israeli's with appalling views such as this.

you've descended back to personal insults once again

how can my opinion that you are talking out of your backside be seen as a personal insult??
do you hear me crying because i got accused of being an anti-semite..then a nazi...and finally a jihadist??..or maybe like my fellow muslims in Gaza i should accept it as it IS my fault whereas you and your fellow Zionists are the victims?

Just to reinforce the title of this whole thread - The head of UN human rights Navi Pillay has stated that she believes Israel's may have commited war crimes.

I am sure supporters of Israel will now come spouting hysterics like "The UN is one sided bla bla bla"

Not that it matters what the UN think, Israel will just ignore them and not co-operate with any investigations, why should they?

The kidnap took place in the West Bank as that is where the most Jews where to be found and where they move about relatively freely. It's only 50 miles from Gaza. Those who live nearer Gaza are far more cautious and certainly wouldn't hitch hike.

it still doesnt answer my original question of why Gaza is being destroyed over a crime that was committed in the West Bank. For all we know the perpetrators are still holed up in the West Bank...you seem to be quite good at avoiding the issue here...ever considered a career in Israeli politics?

@gonzy - I didn't call you any of those things and If I had of done I would have apologised. I avoided this thread for quite a while after the first round of insults. I can just ignore it and let you all agree with each other. What is happening is terrible on that we can agree.

you just don't seem to get it though...you agree for centuries that Jews and Muslims have lived peacefully alongside each other....but under whose rule was that?
i'll answer for you...it was always under Islamic rule that the Jewish populations were given freedom and protection from persecution. history has shown again and again that the saviour/ally/protector of the Jewish people has always been Islam...yet now look what is happening...
60+years of rule and the Jewish faith has been dragged into the gutter of murder, cruelty, barbarism and downright greed over land. this isn't the doing of the faith itself but more to do with it being hijacked by a bunch of thieving, morally corrupt and devilish Zionist scumbags.
after what they have put the Palestinian people through since they came to power...what did you expect?
did you expect them to roll over and allow the persecution?
as victims of such persecution in the past you would have thought the people of Israel had learnt something...but no, instead they are taking out their blood vengeance on the very people who gave them sanctuary.

I didn't call you any of those things and If I had of done I would have apologised.

it still doesnt answer my original question of why Gaza is being destroyed over a crime that was committed in the West Bank. For all we know the perpetrators are still holed up in the West Bank...you seem to be quite good at avoiding the issue here...ever considered a career in Israeli politics?

Some (many?) on the Palestinian side never accepted the creation of Israel. So much has happened now it's pointless (and impossible) to say who "started it" but I first heard of suicide bombing it was against Israeli's. As for quoting old scriptures Salman Rushdie did that and caused a lot of offense. I suppose you can say the Jewish faith has been dragged down by this in the same way as Islam has been twisted to justify extremist terrorism.

Because there is a very clear link to Hamas. I know you don't think so but others do.

Some (many?) on the Palestinian side never accepted the creation of Israel.

well what do you expect? did you think that every Palestinian would be happy about giving up a portion of their land to anyone? if i put it into a new context for you...you may be happy to give me a room on your house but your wife resists this...you give me the room anyway...but then i take over the house which further infuriates her and she ends up going to war with me as i drive you and your family into the garden shed.

again i'll reiterate this point here for you Jambalaya...i have no issue whatsoever with Judaism. Judaism isnt the problem but Zionism is. at the end of WW2 scores of European Jews who had been driven out of their homes and now needed somewhere to live away from persecution were granted land within Palestine...much to the dismay and disapproval fo the Palestinians and the Arab world. those European Jews who migrated to this new country were not of the same mentality as the native Jews who had been peacefully living in Palestine already for centuries. This new breed of Jew was a follower of the Zionist movement and in order to give their movement some credibility they called the country Israel under the context that thousands of years ago in the bible the holy land had been promised to the children of Israel by God.
they have since continued to hide behind Judaism whilst dragging the religion into the ground and using their so called Israeli identity and Jewish faith as a so called reason to steal land and to kill and dehumanise Palestinians.
that is why thousands of Orthodox Jews around the world are so opposed to Zionism as they can see that what it stands for is not what Judaism stands for. Those who would voice the same opinion form inside Israel are too scared to do so as they fear the repercussions from the zionsts.

Ah, Mehdi Hasan?

This Mehdi Hasan?

Can any religion claim a moral high ground - they are all utterly mental in their extremes and the various acts committed in the name of god over the course of history proves this...

The issue here is humanitarian, simple fact, a group of people took land by force (England) gave it to another group of people (The Jews of that time) who then proceeded to 'occupy' (or steal) additional land from the group of people who originally resided there.

Take an animal, back it into a corner and antagonise it, at some point it gonna fight back.

Doesn't make firing fireworks over the border right as it is an indiscriminate form of attack but what are they meant to do? Watch their garden shrink and standard of living diminish?

Problem would be solved if - Hamas F@CK off somewhere, Israel stop occupying more land and lift stringent border control allowing a decent standard of living to return.

Of course this will never happen... who knows where this will all end, I expect with the removal of Gaza and its people from the map one way or another....

I said this last week on FB and was flamed- Hamas causing an excuse to anexe the Gaza strip. Now the IDF are demolishing homes and commiting Genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Next there will be Jewish settlements on the strip.

mSome points in here surprised me. Shooting Palestinian children isnt a war crime ? www.aljazeera.com/story/201472272438651885

The Israelis will simply invent an excuse to attack Gaza, like they have on this occasion.

No one needs to give the Israelis an excuse.

@ ninfan....your point about mehdi hasan being?
I watched the clip you posted and yes he talks of taking the moral high ground...and in the current gaza context it would be to not deliberately target women and children...but the IDF seems incapable or more to the point simply does not want to.
But listening to the rest of the video he talks about nuclear weapons not being permissable in islam. He agrees with what ayatollah Khomeini stated about this and then mentions ****stans nuclear programme....it sounded to me like he was about to condemn ****stan and condemn their double standards...so i fail to see what is wrong.
Plus criticising him is a bit irrelevant and taking things off topic....but its another example of your diversionary tactics of not addressing the situation at hand

The Israelis will simply invent an excuse to attack Gaza, like they have on this occasion.

No one needs to give the Israelis an excuse.

How many Israelis have to die before you think they are justified in defending themselves?

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How many Israelis have to die before you think they are justified in defending themselves?

You are claiming that Gaza was attacked because Israelis had died, ffs have you no shame ? Aren't you embarrassed spouting nonsense like that ?

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Hilarious isn't it 🙄

You are claiming that Gaza was attacked because Israelis had died, ffs have you no shame ? Aren't you embarrassed spouting nonsense like that ?

How many Israelis would have to die before they were allowed to defend themselves? Put a number on it.

Tom Israel are not defending themselves they are collectively punishing civilians . Did you see the film of the 4 boys targeted on the beach and shelled . or the unarmed man in green searching for relatives shot by a sniper then shot again and again as he lay in the open while other unarmed observers in flouresent yellow were pinned down and unable to help. How does a three minute warning by phone to one occupant of a residential tower block before it is destroyed fit in with self defense .
Reprinting a propaganda poster adds nothing .

In answer to your question Israeli forces can take reasonable proportionate steps to prevent a single death . If that was what they were doing I would support them . However this is not self-defense.

Reprinting a propaganda poster adds nothing

Tom gave up trying to defend the actions of the Israeli government in any sort of meaningful way some time back, when he realised how ineffective regurgitating zionist propaganda was, he's now reduced to making occasional troll-like comments, I wouldn't take any of it too seriously.

.

And on a more serious note :

[url= http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-07-23/un-one-child-killed-in-gaza-every-hour-for-past-two-days/ ]UN: One child killed in Gaza every hour for past two days[/url]

[i]ffs have you no shame ? Aren't you embarrassed spouting nonsense like that ?[/i]

clearly ernie, the answer is no, they have no shame.

Actually on reflection that poster does prove how effective the Israeli defense mechanism is in comparison to Hamas .Hama's have been unable to penetrate iron dome while the IDF have gleefully battered their way through the human shield of hamas. Personally I am not sure that you can use the term human sheid to describe a scenario where by the aggressor herds targets and civilians into a confined space and then starts lobbing mass effect weapons in with little regard to targeting.

Israel really wants to alien itself from the world. They don't like being popular do they.

hora - Member

Israel really wants to alien itself from the world. They don't like being popular do they

Historically, have Jews ever been popular as a community? (I don't mean that in an individual manner)

They don't care what joe public thinks, there are enough people in hight places that it doesn't matter one little bit.

[url= http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/the-country-that-wouldn-t-grow-up-1.186721?v=9328D951C29F2365084636962340486B ]Here is a very reasoned explanation as to why Israel is losing support[/url] from around the world.
The fact it was written in 2006 is neither here nor there as it is even more relevant with the worlds opinion today.

Personally I am not sure that you can use the term human sheid to describe a scenario where by the aggressor herds targets and civilians into a confined space and then starts lobbing mass effect weapons in with little regard to targeting.

Agreed. Isn't truth usually the first casualty in war, before the bodies start piling up?

The effective (sic) propagandist most often portrays a target to be in someway sub-human/sub-cultured. Here is the [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html ]Independent's report on so-called 'human shields'[/url]

How does a three minute warning by phone to one occupant of a residential tower block before it is destroyed fit in with self defense .

try 57 seconds...

@Tom you must find this to be absolutely hilarious...

it just goes to show that you are as sub-human as those Zionist pigs you're defending

Historically, have Jews ever been popular as a community? (I don't mean that in an individual manner)

They don't care what joe public thinks, there are enough people in hight places that it doesn't matter one little bit.

I can't really type what I'm thinking. It'll just come across wrong on this tbh and read bad.

Updated data

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Interestingly, demographics wise males 18-28 make up about 12% of the population, so are heavily overrepresented in the data, while approx 43% of the Gaza population is under 14 so underrepresented.

Sad as every death might be, a dispassionate look at the data certainly doesn't point toward random or untargeted strikes.

I can't really type what I'm thinking. It'll just come across wrong on this tbh and read bad.

seeing the images and videos of the carnage and the suffering the Israelis are causing really makes my blood boil.
i find myself having to be very careful in what i say and how i say it.
feeling this amount of anger...i'm surprised i've managed to restrain myself here.
although some of the pro-zionists, with their goading and trolling have at times crossed that line with what they have said, i'm glad to say that the vast majority of supporters for Palestine have not stooped to their level and refused to make that angry emotional response that the pro-zionists want...
i wont mention any names as there are too many but you guys know who i'm talking about...on behalf of my fellow muslims who are suffering in Gaza and the rest of Palestine i would like to say well done and thank you for your dignified support.
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[img] ?height=225&width=225[/img]

I am really not sure why you engage with such an obvious troll