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[Closed] houses without planning permission

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[#5393578]

one of the reasons i like coming on here is the diversity of opinion. my friends think like me, thats why they are my friends.

so what are your opinions of a house like this?

http://naturalhomes.org/save-charlies-house.htm

they have lost their appeal so it looks like they are going back to a static caravan on the same site

its a tricky one for me because i would hate planning to be a free for all, but at the same time, i have a real soft-spot for dwellings like this, and its almost impossible to get planning for them.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:40 am
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It's a bit sad, but without enforcing planning rules you could have had the same site turned into a Tesco super store......


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:42 am
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yep that's the tricky bit for me too footflaps.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:45 am
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Charlie felt he had no choice but to build his house without the approval of the planning authorities, convinced permission for his home would be refused.

This is the problem really, he presumed, could have gone for permission and come up with compromises. At this stage does it meet any building regs etc.
but without enforcing planning rules you could have had the same site turned into a Tesco super store......


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:47 am
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yeah but they wont give you planning for houses built like this. no stress loading specs for wood in the round etc. issues for resale value are often quoted as reasons for this but not everyone wants to be on a property ladder, some just want a home.

i thought it was interesting that Ben Law who built something similar (grander) on grand designs was allowed planning but wasnt allowed to sell.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:51 am
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It is sad.

On my commute I cycle past 3 of the most mind numbingly bland new builds I have seen in a long time,but they tick all the planning boxes.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:56 am
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Hmmm should have applied. Rubbish page with zip info about the actual build or reasons for demolition. Also "death" nope it's not alive.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:57 am
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That's a great house .....but like he said he didn't even bother with trying to get planning ...I wonder if it has any sort of building regs for it either ..........although I expect they would be slightly different regarding that type of dwelling......


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 10:58 am
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i know what you mean fasthaggis, and what really gets me with those 'barrett' style estates is that the buildings are built to last only 25yrs ie. the length of a mortgage.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:03 am
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Having been through the planning process a number of times now (both as the applicant and someone who is against plans), I have absolutely zero sympathy. Yes its a nice house, eco friendly blah blah blah but he had no permission to build it.

On the other hand, its a shame the council have decided it should be pulled down with it being such a nice place whereas the a-holes living behind our old house who got planning permission despite every house surrounding theirs objecting to it, then built something even more obstructive to the plans and then applying for retrospective permission (and getting it) really shows the complete farce and non-standardisation that is the planning process in this country. All it needs is a builder who knows how to play the system and you're laughing...


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:03 am
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I like it, and hope it can be saved.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:10 am
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ive not been involved with the build but i would doubt it would conform to regs straight off due to the timber being used 'in the round' since there are no regs to cover the strength of round timber. the u-values of straw bale means the insulation would've been exceeded though. and in the video he talks about the costs of plumbing/electrics being a large proportion of the build cost so he has used proper tradesmen there.

the other thing is, (i do restoration work) the 400yr old building i would be working on today if it wasn't raining, didn't have regs and that was fine until cement was added to it 😉


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:12 am
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got to agree with daveyboywonder on the lack of standardisation with planning. from some of the things ive seen passed, anyone would think there was bribery going on


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:15 am
 hora
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So would you object to others doing the same? Where would you draw the line when a precedent has been set?

How many individual 'developments'?

Twee and nice as it is (it is) and its a lovely place. You can see why he might have to (sadly) pull it down.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:16 am
 cb
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I agree with above - planning in this country has no consistency applied to it. Without more detail about the surrounding area it is hard to judge what impact the OP's example has but we have bitter experience of crooked developers. We bought a flat in a converted mill having seen the plans for the development - all character materials, facilities, bridge over the canal, footpath into the village blah blah.

Developer ignored everything, built as cheaply as he could and failed to finish all the facilities. He'd already sold the flats by then so couldn't give a toss. As the building was listed, the council then took the position that to change all the faults would be the responsibility of the council and residents! That's one thing but then he applies for more consents in the same village and gets them! System is run by amateurs.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:19 am
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They have to pull it down as you can't set the precedent that you can just build and then worry about permission as otherwise you'll get Tesco building super stores on all the SSSI in the UK and then applying for permission later....


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:19 am
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I thought Tesco were well known for build-first-ask-permission-later as they can influence decisions afterwards by showing how many people they have employed?

Rachel


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:24 am
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yeah i can see why it will have to come down. i do think it would be nice if low impact, self build houses could be given a different category of planning application though.
maybe one where they aren't allowed to be sold to protect the councils building control? and to prevent developers from using it as a loophole?

how much is a planning application for a house these days? £5k? thats a third of the build cost


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:26 am
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tesco and the others simular corporate giants ARE well known for building without planning. and for avoiding regs
edit; allegedly 😆


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:27 am
 iolo
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I saw this. It's basically
"I couldn't be bothered to apply as I believe I'm better than you.I managed to get away with with while the one who applied didn't - suckers.I have no why they want to pull it down? If I cry and make enough noise maybe I can get away with with thus making a mockery of all past,present and future planning applications "


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:31 am
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iolo, point appreciated, however (just out of interest) if the house was presented to you at planning application stage, would you pass such a building (on aesthetics and setting. i don't expect you to know about regs and i don't know enough about the build to comment on them myself)


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:36 am
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[quote=iolo ]I saw this. It's basically
"I couldn't be bothered to apply as I believe I'm better than you.I managed to get away with with while the one who applied didn't - suckers.I have no why they want to pull it down? If I cry and make enough noise maybe I can get away with with thus making a mockery of all past,present and future planning applications "

you forgot about waving a baby at the camera


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:37 am
 MSP
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It's a lot easier to get planning permission for commercial buildings than for homes, the "tesco" argument is very weak.

It is about time planning permission took far greater account of individual needs for homes, instead of looking at everything as a commercial process.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:39 am
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mikewsmith - Member
iolo » I saw this. It's basically
"I couldn't be bothered to apply as I believe I'm better than you.I managed to get away with with while the one who applied didn't - suckers.I have no why they want to pull it down? If I cry and make enough noise maybe I can get away with with thus making a mockery of all past,present and future planning applications "

you forgot about waving a baby at the camera

well next time it could be a childs face !


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:39 am
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how much is a planning application for a house these days? £5k? thats a third of the build cost

£385 per dwelling


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:43 am
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msp. yes that is what i would like to see (if i understand you correctly) a different process for self build homes than commercial housing estates etc

the tesco by me poured tarmac over contaminated land that it was a stipulation of the planning they had to clean up. it is a weak argument but it should be noted that those who can afford high end solicitors often flout the rules


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:43 am
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ebygomm - Member
how much is a planning application for a house these days? £5k? thats a third of the build cost
£385 per dwelling

wow thats less than i thought, even with draughtsman costs etc that still not much is it


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:45 am
 iolo
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[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrards_Cross_Tunnel ]Sometimes it goes wrong for Tesco too[/url]


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:48 am
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If you don't bother to apply for planning permission or it is refused, you run the risk of having to have your house demolished if you build it anyway.

Tough shit.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:57 am
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iolo - Member
Sometimes it goes wrong for Tesco too

😯 oof
although that does seem to be dodgy civil engineering rather than planning avoidance


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 11:59 am
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No sympathies whatsoever, the planning rules apply to all, why should anyone be exempt because they built a 'nice house'...

(Said the Planning Officer...)


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:09 pm
 iolo
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There was talk of Gerrads Cross and a certain minister possibly helping a little bit too much :mrgreen:. I could never believe an elected minister would act in such a way. This was all alleged and of course no action was taken.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:16 pm
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£385 per dwelling

Thought it was less than that, think my workshop was about £140.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:22 pm
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I think as humans we should very nearly be sensible enough to be a bit more flexible in our approach to law and order and regulations..

If someone decent with a genuine concern and love for humanity makes something or does something that doesn't necessarily meet a strict criteria then take each case on it's merits..
similarly maybe it's about time that various regulation was relaxed and became more adaptable to encourage more people to make an effort at stuff without having to adhere to some bollocks guidelines drawn up with little more in mind than protecting investors..

basically what I'm saying is that I think we're mature enough as a species to recognise a **** when we see one and tell him/her to piss off..
we don't need an abominably anal and pedantic conflagration of toxic bullshit in our way at every turn..


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:25 pm
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Thought it was less than that, think my workshop was about £140.

Workshop != Dwelling

(no matter how over engineered it is 😉 )


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:29 pm
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He built a house without permission - what did he expect to happen. Nice house in a hobbit kind of way but a bit of a muppet to think it would be OK.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:31 pm
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isn't there some loophole, whereby if no-one dobbed him in for a certain period (seven years? ) then the dwelling can stay..?


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:33 pm
 iolo
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It just looks like a load of kindling. There's no allowance for a fire exit. He has a lovely family. Why put them at risk?


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:37 pm
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Fine him a shed load of money but leave the house.

Personally I think a caravan does more "harm to the character and appearance of the countryside" than that house.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:48 pm
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[img] [/img]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Farm


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 12:55 pm
 mrmo
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Planning in the UK is a farce, regardless of the rights and wrongs of this case. If you have enough money you will get approval, and it doesn't actually matter where you build.

For centuries houses have been built then someone at the end of the second world war decided that everything needed to be planned, to be zoned. Now look at where we are, you have a housing estate, an industrial estate, a retail park. Rather than trying to get people not to drive the whole system is designed to keep people driving, to keep the volume house builders in work.

Have a look at how many houses in the UK are NOT built by volume housebuilders and then have a look at most other countries. Then have a look at the houses, in the UK they are tiny, the build quality is woeful, yet because they tick some hypothetical box they are fine.

Yes he should have gone through the right channels, but then again what is the point because you know that unless it is a mock georgian/tudor barrat box you are going to fail.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 1:00 pm
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I thought it was interesting that Ben Law who built something similar (grander) on grand designs was allowed planning but wasnt allowed to sell.

I quite like the concept of being able to build what you like, but not sell it.
I imagine getting rid of all the legal loopholes to stop sales by other means would be difficult though.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 1:02 pm
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It's all about land values and village spread. The land he built it on, if agricultural, is probably of the order of £2000. With PP for residential, it would be nearer £70,000. Most of the nice places we like to ride our bikes would be endless sprawl if PP wasn't enforced. Admittedly this keeps house prices high, but that's life. If I could just go buy a field and put up whatever I wanted, of course I would. There'd be a shortage of fields in about two weeks flat though. Hard cases make bad law.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 1:02 pm
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Yes he should have gone through the right channels, but then again what is the point because you know that unless it is a mock georgian/tudor barrat box you are going to fail.

The issue isn't so much with what he built as where he built it. They'd have refused him permission for a mock georgian barrat box just the same.


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 1:03 pm
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Yes he should have gone through the right channels, but then again what is the point because you know that unless it is a mock georgian/tudor barrat box you are going to fail.

I guess the point would be that you don't go to all the effort to build a house, and then have it knocked down?


 
Posted : 05/08/2013 1:04 pm
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