I challenge you to explain that the effects of homeopathy have a scientific basis. Come on, impress me.
No.
...is probably the best response
I think the NHS funding for it should be cut, it should become more effective...
With your username, you sound like the target market.
Awesome! Liking your work there OP. 😃
As needed for every homeopathy thread:
I've posted the full proof above. As you can see, I have diluted it to make it more powerful and convincing.
You need to put the effects in a box. Are they alive or dead?
😀
No takers?
Okay, as a side question: What is more scientifically sound, homeopathy or divining?
Poo can be made from organic matter. Poo therapy anyone??
Homeopathy is patently a load of shit, but the tiny amount of money the NHS spends on its placebo effect keeps people out of more expensive services, so that's a small win.
Worked on my dog. Explain that.
How did your dog explain it?
Your dog got better.
You also gave your dog so,e expensive water.
At the same time somebody crushed a butterfly preventing the flap of the wings causing a tsunami that would have wiped out the planet
None of these things are related.
I challenge you to explain that the effects of homeopathy have a scientific basis. Come on, impress me.
You need to be more accurate with your question. Are you referring to the clinical effect of homeopathic medicines on ill patients (proven and measurable) or the clinical effect of homeopathic medicines over and above placebo (not proven)?
Looking at how homeopathy started it does make a certain sense.
Start with a natural product which helps against malaria but (although not proven) has some side effects for some people which vaguely resemble malaria.
Conclude therefore like cures like.
After a few accidental poisoning when trying to treat other illnesses realise the idea is slightly flawed and come up with dilution as the way to go since once you dilute it enough although it doesnt help it doesnt actively cause harm.
When combined with the fact that the normal "medicine" at the time was often actively harmful you end up with something that seems to work.
Why, in theory, trained experts still fall for it is another question.
If water has memory why doesn't it taste like piss?
Or the sea?
isn't seeing your GP a placebo service a lot of the time? There's nothing scientific about much of the shit that's important to all of us: relationships, music, art, scenery etc anyway.
I suppose I grew up with homeopathy, there were no pain killers or antibiotics hippy medicine had all the answers; there was even a cure for cancer made from mistletoe. At some point in my twenties it did dawn on me that the hippy medicine just didn't work and I've never looked back. It's funny how the most committed alternative medicine types all go for the heart bypass op when the alternative is death!
isn’t seeing your GP a placebo service a lot of the time?
A regular gp consult will be about 15 mins these days, an alternative medicine session that you pay for could be an hour, most people with non descript sysmtoms and hard to diagnose stiff would really benefit from somebody to talk to for a bit longer and somebody listening, that is the way it works not the placebo concotions
Maybe it all began with gravy? That's like water with bits of what used to be other stuff in it, innit? Gravy'll set yer reet.
For some reason I thought that this thread would be very tiny.
Fecal transplants work for hard to treat C. difficile infections. So yes poo therapy. As for homeopathy, just no. There was a nice Horizon many years ago looking at homeopathic pharmacology with a randomised in vitro experiment. Guess what.
Ive seen enough new drug mechanisms fail in my day job.
For some reason I thought that this thread would be very tiny.
It would be better if it was
Faecal transplants
Am willing to donate.
It's very simple, it just explains how some people didn't pay attention at school.
it just explains how some people didn’t pay attention at school.
Arguable really, placebos still work, even when people know they are placebo
There is no such thing as alternative medicine. Just medicine, stuff that is being tested to see if is medicine.
Question is simple. Does it make a significant chemical change to the body that treats an illness, beyond any chemical change caused by coincidence or placebo effect?
I would be really interested to hear if anyone that believes homeopathy actually does something (according to the definition above) is a scientist or has any significant scientific training (say, above degree level in a ‘real’ subject).
If it has any effect, it can only be akin to a placebo effect.
Alternative medicine is medicine that's either not been proven to work or been proven not to work. D'you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?
Medicine.
Alternative medicine is medicine that’s either not been proven to work or been proven not to work. D’you know what they call alternative
that’s been proven to work?
Medicine.
But, as demonstrated, alternative medicine does work, in that it is known to deliver an identifiable, measurable and effective clinical improvement over and above no treatment.
Does it make a significant chemical change to the body that treats an illness, beyond any chemical change caused by coincidence or placebo effect?
What’s important is the clinical effect, the mechanism of that effect is largely irrelevant surely, Placebo ≠ innefective treatment.
ninfan
Arguable really, placebos still work, even when people know they are placebo
If we dumped all the placebo pills in our local reservoir... 🙂
Placebo ≠ innefective treatment.
Not necessarily. Leaving aside the varying evidence for placebos there is the real danger that someone may think a placebo is far more effective than it is.
There is an unfortunate association between some supporters of alternative medicine and a rejection of actual medicine. This can kill people.
I suppose I grew up with homeopathy, there were no pain killers or antibiotics hippy medicine had all the answers; there was even a cure for cancer made from mistletoe. At some point in my twenties it did dawn on me that the hippy medicine just didn’t work and I’ve never looked back. It’s funny how the most committed alternative medicine types all go for the heart bypass op when the alternative is death!
Well, while I’m not certain about mistletoe, one of the most effective cancer treatments, Tamoxifen, is made from the clippings from yew trees, and what about aspirin, originally derived from willow trees, then there’s painkillers, like opium, derived from poppies, and there are large cultivated opium poppy plantations in the UK, so if you think that plant-based treatments are all hippy nonsense, I would respectfully suggest you update your education a bit, there are new treatments being discovered every year from obscure plants all over the world, the big problem is finding them before the rain forests are cut down and burned for bloody palm oil plantations!
[edit] Jury seems to be out on medical uses for mistletoe:
Mistletoe leaves and young twigs are used by herbalists, and preparations made from them are popular in Europe, especially in Germany, for attempting to treat circulatory and respiratory system problems.[23][24][25] Use of mistletoe extract in the treatment of cancer originated with Rudolf Steiner, the founder of Anthroposophy.
Although laboratory and animal experiments have suggested that mistletoe extract may affect the immune system and be able to kill some kinds of cancer cells, there is little evidence of its benefit to people with cancer.[26][27]
If we dumped all the placebo pills in our local reservoir… 🙂
It would be better for the fish than what we do at the moment*
*caution, homeopathic contraception pills may have limited efficacy
Countzero
- there a big difference between, let’s call it herbal, where there’s actually something in whatever is being given and homeopathic where there’s nothing in it at all other than water.
herbal works. Not giving anything, well, it doesn’t*
*although ninfan who will argue black = white will be along to try to disprove this by making not quite the right arguement very shortly
Worked on my dog. Explain that.
What was your control, the cat?
Not giving anything, well, it doesn’t*
Homeopathy isnt “not giving anything” is it? Therein lies the basis of the placebo effect.
I’m only going to do this once. A placebo effect may work, but that’s not homeopathy. Im talking the physical, chemical effect of giving nothing to people, not the effect of making them think they are taking something that will cure their ills.
out now, I can’t bring myself to debate this with ninfan.
Seemed to help out when it was the only option left for us.
Not entirely sure, but I went from complete engineer style non believer to 'may consider'.
"But, as demonstrated, alternative medicine does work, in that it is known to deliver an identifiable, measurable and effective clinical improvement over and above no treatment."
Demonstrated where?