Never feel stupid or silly for offering some help towards someone, even if they do the wrong thing with that help. The second no-one helps out their fellow citizens at all is the time we cease to be a civilized society.
Back in my old job customers would regularly offer us free drinks or food. The saying was 'never refuse a freebie' as even if you didn't like it if you stopped taking them they would stop giving them. I regularly used to give my coffee or cake to the homeless regulars on eg Queen Street in Cardiff or High Street in Hereford, to the point where I'd have them keeping an eye on me as I was doing my round!
When you work in the city centre, as I did a lot, pre-covid, you tend to see the same people all the time.
I would be out doing my old job at all times of day and night and would see the homeless going about their lives all the time round Cardiff. Regular bin surfers in the early morning, one who watched the ducks at Roath Lake at 3am every day (he slept in the bushes), the group who met every evening by the old docks station to smoke whatever and check in on each other, etc. They really are a sub-culture of the modern world that lots of people just don't see. It was rather shocking to see them everywhere during the first week or so of the first lockdown as they were the only people about, was even stranger when they all disappeared overnight when the scheme that put them up in hotels etc kicked in.
A long time ago I asked someone begging by a train station shop if I could get them anything, they asked for wet wipes and tissues.
The supermarkets round me have pre-packaged donation parcels for food banks that you can buy then drop in the donation basket on the way out, I try and buy one when I'm doing a big shop. I'll always go for the ones labeled up as 'toiletries' or 'sanitary products' as that's far more important than some sweets or other such treat. They're always the last ones left too, there's always a selection at the beginning of the day.
Sadly I have noticed a big rise in the amount of homeless people the last few months in Cardiff and Bristol, both places with a large amount of them. New groups of tents under bridges, on roundabouts, old groups growing in size etc. There's also been a spate of people being found dead in parks and in subways, hardly ever reported but the sight of an ambulance and police car attending to a body in a sleeping bag or a cardboard box house is unmistakable. Hopefully the relatively mild winter is helping more survive.
One of my flatmates years ago worked for a local homeless charity as a counsellor and advised always helping them by spending time chatting to them to remind them they're still part of society and/or giving food etc but he said never give them money as they [I]will[/I] spend it on drink/drugs and that just made his job - trying to get them to turn their lives around - so much harder.
I live somewhere relatively affluent - so I appreciate this isn't the situation everywhere - and people in need are actually pretty well supported by the council & local charities; generally everyone who needs a place to stay will get one. [I]Unless[/I] you've given them cash & they've spent it getting obliterated in which case they'll definitely be turned away for the safety of other residents (or simply unable to make their way to the shelter) so again not really helping.
Donate money by all means but directly to charities/shelters/food banks etc.
(This is assuming they're not professional beggars/part of a gang, which is another kettle of fish entirely!)
are they just blowing it on drugs
What if they are? If I was homeless I'd be spending the cash on drink and drugs too. It's pretty much the only way to block out the horror of the situation. What else are they going to spend their money on? (apart from food obvs)
@dazh because (as per my comment above) my friend who is a homeless counsellor cannot do his job (which is to help people turn their lives around) when they are wasted all the time as either he cannot communicate with them and/or they miss appointments, etc.What if they are?
One of my flatmates years ago worked for a local homeless charity as a counsellor and advised always helping them by spending time chatting to them to remind them they’re still part of society
another anecdote
A chap asked me for money one day - he was wandering around my area asking folk for money. I said no and walked off then thought better of it and went back to him and asked if he wanted some food and had a wee chat with him.. He said "i really could do with a coffee". I went into one of the posh cafes and bought him an expensive takeaway coffee. The look on his face when I came out of the cafe was great as he clearly thought I was not going to buy him a coffee ( the cafe was round the corner from where he was) He said to me " you are the only person who has treated me like I am human today"
That made me feel good
I do not believe in altruism. I do not believe it exists. Acts of charity like this make the donor feel good.
Real eye opener this thread. I will have to admit to being one of the people who puts his head down and ignores them. Completely wrong, and I thank for thread for highlighting it to me. I've just gone through my own mini life crisis, very messy divorce that had the intention of ruining me financially and mentally. I was incredibly lucky to have a strong supportive family behind me, without that, who knows where I would have been. I was close to giving up on the "normal life".
Zilog, I completely understand your friends rationale. But as others have said, these folk are in dire straits. I will in future be making an effort to have cash or buy them food when ever the opportunity arises.
PS - I have always supported charities directly out of my wage and that was always my answer as to why I didn't directly give cash to homeless people on the street. I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.
It can happen so quickly. I was homeless with the kids for a short while about three years ago. My (ex)wife is an alcoholic and I had to leave our house with the kids. We stayed with my parents for a while, but my Mum got sick and we couldn't stay there.
Luckily the housing association got us put up in a B&B as there were no places in hostels. I couldn't afford to pay for rent anywhere as I was still paying the mortgage on the house that she refused to leave. In the end the police had to remove her and we got back home, but it was a nightmare.
I was accused of domestic abuse for 'making her homeless' when she was removed from the house as she had to sleep on one of her family members sofas for two nights....... Not worrying that her kids and I had to stay with my family for 6 months and then for a few weeks of the two kids and I living in a single room in a B&B - that was okay apparently...... still makes me so cross to think about it!
Anyway, shows how easily and quickly you can go from a nice confortable life to being homeless. If I didn't have the two kids I would have been on the street.
K
my friend who is a homeless counsellor cannot do his job
Well I sympathise with your friend, but I doubt a homeless person facing a freezing night in a doorway is going to worry too much about that. It's entirely their decision how they choose to get through their situation, if their chosen coping method is to get wasted then that's up to them. If they want to talk to a counsellor and get help then that is also up to them. Homeless people are not children who need 'saving', they're adults who have agency and can make their own decisions. If for some reason they don't have capacity to do that then there are other ways to deal with that rather than lecturing them about drug and alcohol use.
I give to shelter, as I figure they're the experts who know how to target support in the most effective way.
What if they [I]do[/I] want to talk to the counsellor, but because you've just given them a tenner and they have - against their better judgement now got battered on cider - they miss their appointment? 🤷♂️ Sounds like you are seriously underestimating the harm that mental health issues & addiction cause.It’s entirely their decision how they choose to get through their situation, if their chosen coping method is to get wasted then that’s up to them. If they want to talk to a counsellor and get help then that is also up to them.
no obviously adults are not children, they absolutely do need help though... how are they supposed to turn their lives around, on their own, getting smashed every night? Utterly bizarre comment. You'd prefer them to stay on the streets and eventually inevitably die to alcohol or drugs misuse?! Since when do addicts ever suddenly just recover, out of the blue, on their own?Homeless people are not children who need ‘saving’
During most of December we had an Eastern European (I'm assuming) girl stood outside our Co-Op every day. She was dropped off at 8-9am and collected around 5-6. She was selling the big issue and seemed very genuine. We chatted some and bought a few/gave her some food and money but she was quite vague about the situation other than she'd been brought in from Birmingham which is 50 miles/over an hour away.
It could well be gangs, it could well be a scam but she was stood in a bus shelter for 10-11 hours a day with no supplies and nowhere to even go to the toilet so I don't begrudge giving her a bit of something. She earned it.
I've not been passed in the day since new year so not sure if she's still coming or if it was a Christmas thing.
One guy asked for some change recently as I was paying for a car park but I’d just given my last bit to someone else I’d seen earlier that night. I told him and he said ‘of course you did mate!’ I felt bad I had no more change but I guess they hear that excuse all the time.
Honestly, in that situation I'd thinking "well, now I'm glad I didn't give you anything." Conversely, I had one guy a little while ago, I said "I'm really sorry mate, but just don't have any change" and he came back with "that's OK, thanks anyway, have a good evening." I was halfway through "you too..." when I realised how stupid that sounded, went back and gave him a fiver just because he was polite.
Cynically, it's possible that that was his schtick and I'd been played. 🤷♂️ Point is, someone said earlier about it being hard not to be judgemental. In taking the choice away from them we are judging, even if that's well-meaning. Who am I to say whether they need a sandwich or a coffee or what they might do with cash, is it my place to be exerting power and control?
I see someone well-groomed who is begging and I think "sure you're homeless" when there's a guy down the street who looks like Catweazel who clearly is. I realise now from the comments in this thread that I might have that arse-backwards, the first guy might just be "in the system" that provides access to basic toiletry facilities and maybe he's more deserving of a few coppers or a McCoffee than the guy living under the bridge. And now... I'm still judging, aren't I.
We have "you don't look disabled..." maybe we also need "you don't look homeless..."?
I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.
The way I look at it is, that sort of amount is (to my judgemental mind) more beneficial to small local charities. If I was bequeathing my estate to a charity it might be something like Cancer Research or BHF. Donating a fiver to Cancer Research likely wouldn't cover the admin costs to process it.
I did a sponsored run a little while ago, I raised a couple of hundred quid for a local women's help charity. They replied back to me saying thank you and told me exactly what they were going to with the cash (they were going to brighten up one of their counselling rooms, throw a bit of paint around and buy something arty for the wall). With reference to TJ's 'altruism' comment, this made me feel like I'd done a better thing than donating to a major charity. But then of course, if everyone thinks like that then Cancer Research et al has a problem!
It's difficult, isn't it.
I pay £50 a month to different charities each year. This year is UN Refugee Agency UNHCR. I do always worry about how much of my monthly contribution actually get to the people who need it though.
Fair concern I think. Part of the money you donate is about them being able to run an effective organisation so overheads and paid staff are always needed. Some will be leaner than others and I'm sure the most effective are ranked somewhere. This talk is interesting on that topic https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/william-macaskill/ - with a founder of The Centre for Effective Altruism
What if they do want to talk to the counsellor, but because you’ve just given them a tenner and they have – against their better judgement now got battered on cider – they miss their appointment?
Next time I go into Manchester for work I might try that line on someone. I can imagine what their response will be. Something along the lines of 'well f off then you patronising w**'. Seriously, it's really not up to me to make judgements about whether they have the capacity to seek professional help. What I can do though is give them a little bit of cash for whatever they need it for.
Sounds like you are seriously underestimating the harm that mental health issues & addiction cause.
Mrs Daz was a social worker specialising in the support and treatment of drug and alcohol users for 15 years and many of her clients were homeless. I reckon I'm much more informed about the impact of substance abuse than the average punter. Rule number one of drug treatment is you can't help users until they walk through the door of their own accord and ask for it.
no obviously adults are not children, they absolutely do need help though…
See above. You can't impose 'help' on drug users. Lots of drug users, whether they are homeless or not don't want help and are content to carry on with their lifestyle. They may not particularly like it, but for various reasons they may prefer it to the alternatives (being 'in the system' etc).
Dunno, it's tough to know. When I used to go into Town in order to sign for the JSA, I'd then go to Greggs to buy as much tea and sandwiches as I could carry (because frankly JSA was a drop in the ocean, either I was going to find a job before savings ran out, or the mortgage wasn't getting paid in 3 months, £73 wasn't going to touch the sides of that so another £12 wasn't making any difference ). Some people were genuinely grateful for it, a handful immediately switched to full on grifting.
My wife used to pass a chap most mornings who had a sign saying he was Type 1 - she stopped to talk one day as we've got a T1 son. She found out what had happened in his life - there was no drugs just he'd run out of luck. She found what he needed - e.g. food and something for if he had a hypo (low blood sugar) so she'd regularly get him supplies
We're both in Manchester but not in the centre these days. The Council actively encourages people to donate to the charities looking after people and or give food/drink where possible.
One of my best mates was kicked out by his ****less parents when he was 16. He slept in the doorway of a local church.
He talked of suddenly hanging round with the scary, grizzled, long term homeless addicts, instead of peers and schoolkids. And with the cold and discomfort of lying on concrete, and the fear of getting robbed or having the shit kicked out of you by drunken arseholes while you're asleep, he couldn't actually get to sleep without knocking back 2 litres of cider first. He was really scared. And, eventually, he was an alcoholic.
It's a really tricky one. I don't often give money to people on the street although I do have direct debits to several homeless and addiction charities.
I used to live in the Hulme redbricks and my next door neighbour used to beg by the cash machine near the Sand Bar. I was about 21 and I thought he was just a blagger. But now I'm not so sure. Things are rarely so black and white.
What if they are? If I was homeless I’d be spending the cash on drink and drugs too. It’s pretty much the only way to block out the horror of the situation. What else are they going to spend their money on? (apart from food obvs)
Its not really the point to wonder about what he or she might use the money for. If its drugs, you cant change their mind or get them help, its something they must do for themselves. Finally come to that conclusion and seek hellp
One of the problems we have though is the government doesn't like spending money on initiatives for addicts or homeless unless theres some political point scoring in it. It's nearly always private individuals or former addicts/homeless who start these things.
The best you can do, if you understand that your donation is going to be used for drugs/etc(probably) is to give to an organization who works to help those in turmoil. Plenty of Christian or other religious organizations fund homeless or rehabilitation projects. Macedon is one. They work in conjunction with Centerpoint but have or run night shelters and 'homes' around the country.
Centerpoint run a night shelter in the center of London on Shaftsebury ave(In St Annes church) for 16-18 yr olds. It's easy to donate to either of these two causes, and you can do it online.
Its not really the point to wonder about what he or she might use the money for.
This is kinda what I was circling around.
There was a thread I think on STW a short while ago, an auntie or grannie was gifting a sizeable sum of money to the kids but they had to spend it on something that would become a family heirloom. I remember thinking at the time, that's not how gifts work. If she wants little Hermione to have a watch, buy her a watch, that's a great gift. If she wants to give her money then give her money, that's a great gift. If she wants to give her money and then dictate what she can and can't do with it, that's narcissistic manipulation.
I'm kind of the same mind here. We either want to help or we don't, but beyond a desire to help in the best way we shouldn't be hanging conditions on it.
I do a mix, support a few homeless charities via monthly DD, buy lunch to anyone I pass when I'm on my lunch run and also give out the odd £5 to people - although recently the number I see locally seems to have reduced a lot in Cambridge - possibly they've just moved to a more lucrative part of town...
If I have the time I do chat to them, pretty easy to see why they're on the streets - most seem to have a whole host of mental illness / drug problems - one was quite open about being a herion addict - he was only homeless as something had gone wrong with his benefits and he'd been kicked out of sheltered accommodation as his benefit had stopped.
Interestingly, they all had mobile phone provided by a local charity who pay the bill - as without one and access to email etc you can't access benefits. When Joseph lost his, he was in a right state, but the charity just gave him a new on the next day...
As for giving them cash, I don't really mind if they do spend it on drink / drugs etc, probably makes living on the streets a little more bearable and you're not going to get them clean by not giving them money as addiction is such a strong thing.
Homeless people, am I stupid?
No, not stupid because you are just a kind soul.
Your money so do as you wish, but how they spend it is entirely up to them provided they don't use the money to harm others.
Not stupid.
I found a chap sleeping on the estate at (now my old) work. Had a chat with him, told him that he hadn’t picked the best spot as people would complain (load of daily Mail readers homes there) so I showed him where the best/quietest/most remote part of the estate for him to camp was. He didn’t want much and really kept himself to himself so I left him be
I recall walking past a homeless guy a year or two back who was asking for money. I walked on thinking to myself "he'll just go and waste it on booze". Then I remembered I was off to meet some mates in the pub and was about to do exactly the same thing. So I went back and gave him a fiver.
That said my inclination is generally to give to homeless charities rather than individual people. In central Edinburgh in particular there are "professionals" working the streets, admittedly probably vulnerable people controlled by some dodgy low-life. On the other hand you see folk later at night in a really wretched state that are grateful for every penny.
So no easy answers really OP. And it's something that's definitely getting worse.
Act of kindness is never stupid.
I do try to avoid giving money as this is the most common advice given by charities.
What I try to do:
Always aknowledge them, even if it is to say no to begging, never ignore as though they are invisible.
Ask if they would like a drink or food of their choice.
Give socks or underpants
