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[b]Car:[/b]
2003 Mondeo 2.0 TDCI
Fuel tank 3/4 full
80K miles on the clock
Normally runs like a sweetie, and has done for the last 4 years
[b]Situation:[/b]
Driving to work this morning (was cold, but it's been like that for a while) 55mins into a 60 min journey, on the motorway doing 50mph, and the car starts to loose power for half a second. Just imagine what it would be like if you were running out of petrol, but a half second later the engine goes back to normal. The engine doesn't turn off, just looses drive and the revs dip momentarily.
This happens 3 or 4 times for a min or two and then the engine just turns itself completely off. Lights still on, radio still on, but it's like one min you are driving along and the next you turn of the engine (except you haven't).
Coast to the hard shoulder. Wait a couple of mins. Turn the engine back on and everything seems fine.
Take it straight to my local garage (small, cheap, friendly, independent - you know the type) and after a couple of hours, they can't find anything wrong.
On the way back home this evening, again after about 50 mins it starts all over again.
WTF is wrong?!!!
Please help, I can't afford a new car!
Sounds like the ECU switch to limp home mode a couple of times and then decided to switch the engine off.
Why it would do that though I don't know. Could be several things I guess.
(Crankshaft/camshaft) sensor dying?
Limp home definitely would turn the car off- thats positively terminal if it happens to a driver in the fast lane of the motorway. FACK.
Cant help really- you havent misfuelled? no smoke (excessive) from exhaust?
Lambard sensor? (oxgen)
fuel pump going,fuel filter blocking ?
Had exactly the same problem with the same type of mondeo and we found out that it was generic problem with the fuel pumps on the which start to break up and bugger up the injectors, we got shut cos it was very expensive to fix, now in fairness I wouldn't say that thats for definite but you'd be best off taking it to ford as I think they may be aware of this problem. sorry to be of no more help
Guys, thanks for your help, really. Appreciate it!
Not that car-minded, so some of the suggestions are a wee bit over my head, but I can say (HORA) that I haven't misfueled, and no excessive smoke from exhaust.
Didn't even know my car would have a limp home mode.
Worth taking to a main ford dealer for a full diagnostic check? Also wary that these things don't really show much up.
Hopefully some others might read this and offer some more pointers...
Try fordmondeo.org, they're pretty helpful 🙂
Marcus, just saw your post. Anything else you can offer so that I'm able to communicate better with the garage.
In the meantime I wouldnt take it on the motorway etc- not a chance. Thats my worse nightmare- car dies and I cant get across 3 lanes to safety or at a speed of my chosing. All the best 🙂
As i said, i was told by my garage that this is one of those "known issues" but i never persued it, I doubt that a diagnostic would help but they may admit that there is an issue (unlikeley), your other option would be to find a ford owners forum and they will definely be able to help you.
When did you last drain the fuel filter or have it serviced ?
Could be water freezing in the fuel filter causing starvation.
My sisters mondeo had the same problem. It was something to do with the fuel injection and a sensor. Will be talking to her later so will find out later.
Taff, would really appreciate that! I'll be checking here throughout!
Thanks to the rest of you!!
AB, this happend a while ago so i dont remember all the detail but what they said was that the pumps start to break up and metal gets into the fuel system and basically screws it up by damaging the injection system. thats about as much as I remember, the lads at the garage are generally pretty good and so I had no reason to not trust them (hey said flog it!). cheers
i had exactly the same in a fiesta it was down to one of the fuel pipes being a bit knackered it has some holes in it and drew air into it by all accounts and once swapped it didnt do it again ?? confused me but worked
One of the guys on the Mondeo forum said:
[i]"The ecu has picked up a fault on a sensor and will limit power if its going to cause harm to engine, so if ran in limp mode for to long it will shut car down.
As its diesel wont have lambda sensor.
If misfueled the car would be hardly drivable for couple of minutes let alone hour, same if it was a blocked filter.
Worth getting put on machine to check for fault codes"[/i]
a mate who runs a garage told me that a common fault with newer mondeos is fuel injectors failing. They are about £200 each and there are four of them ! not counting labour costs.
so it would be worth having it checked out before driving it too much incase you do damage the injectors.
have you considered keeping the car & moving closer to where you work ? somewhere about 45mins away should do the trick 😉
hora - limp home WOULDN'T turn the car off, clue's kinda in the name...
I'd put my money on either the camshaft or crankshaft sensor. If the computer doesn't know what the engine's doing, it'll cut off fuel. Worth posting on Honest John's website (sound advice) but you need to get any error codes read which might give an instant diagnosis.
Did it per chance happen on the M25? There's a point near a junction on the western side of the loop that causes older Range Rovers to just cut out and stop, radio transmission messes with the immobiliser or something. Happened to my dad both ways.
Get the faults read at your local ford dealer , shouldnt cost more that half an hour labour rate wise. poss water in fuel / fuel pump sensor fault / fuel rail sensor fault, land rover 90 / 110 2.4 engines ( from transits ) are displaying similer simptoms to yours , really get it to your ford dealer m8ty, you dont have to have the work done by them.
My dads focus died around 100k. Turned out it burnt out most of the engine management wiring and circuitry over its years. Known for failing around 100k on that particular engine.
Id imagine ECU problem/dirty sensor. Checked HT leads for dirty connections?
I had this happen. ECU cuts in to protect turbo when ECG valve is damaged, get to ford dealer quick, my new turbo was 2k!!
Hey Dooge - not many HT leads on a diesel - hee hee
Might just be a problem with one or more of the glow-plugs - worth getting these checked too...cheaper than fuel injectors, new ECU etc.
wont be the glow plugs - this is happening after nearly an hour of driving... likewise, I doubt it's anything to do with freezing of the fuel in the injectors or pump - for the same reason, it's going to be rather warm under there!
crankshaft position sensors are reasonably common fault on many cars, and it sounds like it could be likely. I could imagine it being a disintegrating fuel pump, or some other fault with the fuel pump - I think the TDCi is a high pressure system and therefore the pump is very critical to the engine operation.
However, it's a Ford, it could be anything!
chrispuppet 2k? I remember when a garage gave me a quote over the phone a couple of weeks ago for 1k my blood ran cold. In my situation I did some thorough searching and thankfully brought the bill down to £165.
AB take a couple of days off work- take your car to a few Ford garages and a couple of Indies. Get them to compete on quotes and cross-reference a few Forums. At the very least you'll know alot more about cars/symptoms etc. At the end of my two-day debacle I can now identify most engine parts with the car on a ramp etc.
I've had two Mondeo TDCIs and both had similar problems. Both were fixed under warranty - it was a fuel injector fault - electronic.
Im no expert..but defo sounds as if it went into limp mode. As its a ford its probably a sensor...
SCRAP IT !!! FLOG IT
Guys, quick general question - Are these faults you're talking about all on diesel engines?
Stupid question just edited out...
I had something like this on my 02 Honda Civic CDTI. Went to overtake a grey hair and the engine died, it did it several time since but only when going for full power, a turn off at the key and a minute or two cured it.
After a bit of Investigation it turned out to be a block fuel filter. The call for extra boost when the car hit the turbo's set pressure meant that the fuel pump decided there was not enough fuel to provide the required mixture and shut the engine down. Since the new Filter she's been perfect again, and I've not managed to get the engine to shut itself down since.
Try it, it was not that expensive.
Thanks for the advice folks. Have it booked into a Ford garage tomorrow morning.
Frightening how many Ford Diesels have this problem, there were literally hundreds of posts online about it.
So far the most likely suggestions from various forums seems to be:
[b]Crankshaft/Camshaft sensor problem:
Failed injector or loosing it's calibration and needs re-coded
Pressure sensor on fuel pump
Fuel filter and fuel gauge sender unit
EGR valve needs replacing
Fuel pump disintegrating or being blocked which in turn could be affecting the injectors
Fuel pipes being a bit knackered having holes in it and drew air into it[/b]
Other points raised in some posts were:
In 2003 Ford issued a service bulletin about TDCI mondeos cutting out due to failure of the block connector for the fuel pressure sensor. A kit containing the connector was made available. This seems more likely to me to be the cause so Im going to check that out when I get a chance.
The injector pump, injectors and all the pipe work etc might have to be replaced as it is a well known problem with the ford/jaguar pumps that due to the new non sulpher diesel not lubricating the pump as well as it should, the pump starts to break up and contaminate the hole system.
So the garage needs to do a pressure check, followed by an individual injector leak-off rate test. If the injectors are OK; they'll need to think about air getting into the fuel line or a failing pump.
We have now had a turbo seal leak repaired and a new cam sensor fitted, will wait and see if it is fixed.
The ECU has picked up a fault on a sensor and will limit power if its going to cause harm to engine, so if ran in limp mode for to long it will shut car down.
I'm having the same problem and again I have spent over £300 on a fault that is still there. I have had the EGR valve changed, the fuel sender changed, the injectors re-coded twice and the problem is still there
So it's mainly diesels than?
We're picking up a 55-reg Focus on Satuday. It's a petrol.
Phew!
From checking HonestJohn, they both seem to have their problems, but this issue is particular to Diesels.
Plug it into a computer and read the fault codes. Step one, in any modern car problem.
Yep. TAke it to a small independant garage .Ask them for EOBD european on board diagnostics. This will give the error codes, however these are stored indefinatly till reset, so they will also record a non relevant problem from amybe a year ago. Then try interweb and Ford forums with the error codes , if you are lucky there will be only 1 error , and it will say exactly the cause.
In reality there will be 3 or more faults any of which could casue a full cut-out. My 2p's worth is fuel pump / filter related. Due to time of cut - out it would suggest to me something is getting hot and failing. If it was a blocked injector, its still going to be blocked after a re-start. if the fuel pump is eating itslf then the fuel filter will be full of swarf, might be worth emptying it out into a tupperware container. Cam angle / postion is right up there ,again getting warm and misreading.
Does it cut out at a particular place, ie top of long hill / incline? then maybe FP sensor. EGR would normally fail sooner of its not working, and wouldn't magically fix itself, as soon as you went onto light throttle cruise it would probably cut out.
HTH good luck with it.,
please report back as there are owners of the same on here who will be interested.
i had the same thing happen on a mondeo many years ago - it was just a loose multiplug on the fuel injection. i was convinced the ECU or something expensive had expired, but whilst doing the "clueless faith-healing car maintenance" (open the bonnet and touch stuff) i found the loose connection. quick squirt of WD40 and all was well.
only thing i've ever successfully fixed on a car i might add!
A mate of mine had focus 1.8 TDCI and had similar issues. Turned out to be cam position sensor, 20 ish for the bit and 5 min to change.
Conks
Sounds like the Witworth flim flam tappets are discombobulating.
Try some injector cleaner, drive thwe car until warm put injector cleaner in fuel tank, and then drive like a top gear presenter when its safe high revs and speed,low gear, and watch all te crap come out the back, repaet the process after a few days.
again take it to the main dealer , dont ponce around a this stage, get them fault codes , your main dealer will give you the print outs as to wots up with it , you then decide weather you want them or an indipendent to repair ,
Dropped it off tonight at the main dealer - full diagnostic tomorrow. Took along some of the suggestions I'd found from here and the ford forums as it is in fact recognised as a common fault, but when I handed the service manager the bit of paper he threw a strop and said he wouldn't look at it.
****ing tosser!
Why is it I have no faith in these folk?
service managers are a bit like that mate , dont be put off or concerned by it, all you want is the fault code read out,let him chuck his toys out of his pram lol, i got a mate who works with me, has just come from a main ford dealer here in devon , post the codes here ( should be p codes ) i will give him a shout ) and get back to you asp. cheers
Thanks, Scraprider. Good Karma coming your way! 😉
[b]Right, car update[/b] (for those following the fun and games)
Just spoke to the Ford Garage, who have just finished a full diagnostic on my car.
Any guesses what they found?
Anybody?
Yup. You guessed it. **** All!
They say it looks fine from the computer readout. Well if you call a car that turns itself completely off 15 times in a day and a half, usually while doing 50-60 mph on the motorway, fine. Then I guess it would be tip top!
(Seriously depressed)
They said they suspect a camshaft sensor (£75) and said they would take it our over the weekend with the computer hooked up and drive it till it happened again, so we'll see what that brings.
They also told me other stuff that they found. Does any of this lot sound expensive to you?
(Price include parts, labour & VAT)
Dip headlight bulb - £22
Rear axle bushes - £186
Handbrake cable seized - £190
2 x new rear hubs £587
Shoot me now!
I'm sorry, but if it had been me I'd have walked out when the manager refused to look at the suggestions I'd brought in. Don't pay for any of that work, looks to be a complete rip-off.
Go to a local independant garage!
Get a reccommnedation form someone, or failing that try and find a Ford specialist. There's bound to be one. The better local garages have diagnosic equipment too, you don't have to pay dealer prices!
🙂
Just looked at that again....
£22 for a ****in' headlight bulb!!!!
Run away as fast as possible!
OBD scanners are cheap from eBay, and pretty widespread. Take it to an independent garage get the fault codes read.
I would almost put money on the cam position sensor.
As for the other stuff, get a decent garage to check it out and see what actually needs to be changed.
Conks
Done a bit of a ring to a few local garages I use and it seems I could cut those prices in half. Trouble is I won't throw money at it if they can't identify the problem it shows when it just cuts out.
The car is prob only worth £2500 and I have about $4000 of finance outstanding.
On taking it to another garage to get fault codes read. Would they show up elsewhere if Ford's diagnostic check can't find them?
CONK - They did say they thought it was most likely the cam sensor too. (£75, they are claiming.)
Dropped it off tonight at the main dealer
Why is it I have no faith in these folk?
Cos they're the main dealer. Main dealers are always absolutely terrible. Never ever go near them, unless you want a new or ex demo car. You are right to have no faith in them.
I also had the same problem with my 2003 2.0 tdci.
Of the problems you listed. It seems that the most likely and cheapest are Crankshaft/Camshaft sensor problems and injectors needing recoding. In my case it was the injectors that needed recoding I took it to a diesel specialist and it cost about £60. It hasn't reoccurred since. The fuel economy was also down before the re-code which might give you a bot of a clue. To replace the sensor if also apparently relatively cheap to get done and seems like it could be a diy job. So I would try that next.
I've read literally hundreds of posts online with folk experiencing hte same problem. Pretty disgraceful of Ford, if you ask me.
When you look at the reliability of Fords they generally come out middle to above average these days. However that masks the fact that some models are much more unreliable than others. It seems that Mondeos have more reliability issues than other the other Fords. Diesel Mondeos are more unreliable than the petrol ones. Mondeos manufactured between 2002 and 2004 were more unreliable than later ones.
I found this out by analyzing in detail the model by model breakdown in the which reports.
AB,
Cam position sensors are a common failure point on the TDCi motors. The 1.8 in the focus is literally a 5 min job. From memory the part was £20 or so. Never played with the 2.0 motor, but I imagine it will be similar.
Take engine cover off.
Undo connector to sensor (on top of the cam cover)
Remove fastening bolt (8mm IIRC).
Put it back together.
As for the other bits for the OP.
Headlight bulb - Do this youself. Easy peasy. £5.
Rear bushes - pretty common failure on a lot of cars, decent independent should be a lot cheaper.
Handbrake cable - Is a relatively easy DIY job. Get a Haynes manual and check it out.
Was it explained wht on earth you would need rear hubs?? Are the bearings a bit flakey?
Sounds like the Ford Garage was trying to shift you a new car. Cheeky ****ers.
As said earlier. A decent Garage will sort this for a fraction of the cost and only replace what needs to be replaced.
COnks
Sound like the irrate service manager is now trying it on . Did you ask for a full vehicle check that required putting it up on a ramp . You will be billed at whatever £60 an hour for someone to check your handbrake cable, which just guessin by the milage you do probably actually works well.
Maybe they threw it in the air to check the connections to the fuel pump,its most likely next to the tank.
I refuse to believe there is no eror code , if there was there will not be now as it will have been reset.
You need a Bosch deisel specialist, Can t see how 1 wonky injector would make the whole car shut down though, maybe through forward voltage perhaps a signal returned to the ecu to say yep, done that little job.
Is the car , stay with me on this , cutting out like someone has switched the switch on to accessory , just for a second, enought o switch off the motor?? So a simple key off / on will restart the car. Could be as simple as a loose /corroded wire in the back of the ign.switch. No eror code as the carthinks its you turning it off.
FixOrRepairDaily.
.
They are not selling enough cars so need to rob people to keep the gagrage in profit.
. Trading standards might like your story , if your bloody minded, bet another garage wouldn't find half those faults if you asked them to check the car over.
£22 for a bulb. Which would cost £6 if its an H4 halogen ,not a HID, I suppose it would be £100's then
Keep us informed.
hi sorry for not replying before , but we had our hands full in exeter, bugger no fault found , its your choice weather you leave it with them , some times the fault will not be logged because the ignition is cycled, also what he has given you is a vehicle health check , all main stream dealers do this A to get work and B a safty issue , tyres, brakes etc , im sure you would like to know if your brakes are worn out ,it also is free, yes you must be off your trolly if pay main dealer prices, there are pleanty of indipendents that will do that stuff for you at less than half the price,any ways see what they say after the test drive with the diog machine plugged into it, also an indipendent is also not garenteed to find the fault, cheers
also im not defending that service manager , he does sound like a knob , thats how it is from somone in the trade,
Sorry for the long post..
I read your posts with interest I have a 2001 Mondeo 2.0 TDCI 81,000 miles with similar problems.
A few days ago I was driving on a motorway when I tried to overtake, I put my footdown and car felt like it had lost power, the glow plug light started to flash(this indicates the ECU has detected a fault) carried on with journey slowly without full power avaliable.
Got home and searched internet for possible solutions, disconnected battery to see it this would clear fault codes but this did not work - actually made it worse, after starting engine sounded like bag of bolts and loads of smoke, would not rev over 1500rpm.
(i now know that after disconnecting battery the ECU has to relearn and I should have followed these setps -
1. Hold engine near to idle speed until engine up to normal temperature.
2. Hold engine at 1200rpm for Two minutes
3. Take car on 5 mile run to allow ECU to relearn
RAC called who put car on diagnostic laptop and gave two fault codes P2288 'Injector Control pressure above expected level' and P2336 'Cylinder 1 knock control limit attained'
RAC man said it needed to go to a garage as he could not fix it.
Taken to Ford main dealer who I instructed to just put car on dianostic machine and give me estimate for repair.
Guess What!! Same fault codes as RAC had given me and said that it was probably cylinder injector 1 that would need replacing £200 + £100 fitting, but...they would advise replacing all 4 injectors to be sure. total cost about £1,600 including all pipes etc.
I wanted a second opinion so after various phone calls found a independant workshop who would clear the fault codes and recode the injectors.
This was done and car was back to normal, loads of power, no smoke 😀 test drive was completed and back to put on diagnostic pc to check that no new fault codes had been created, this was all ok.
Next day started fine and drove different journeys for about 50 miles.....then after a bit of quick acceleration the car cut out completly,- flasing glow plug light again. Coasted to side of road and tried to restart. Engine turned over but nothing...no life...
I don't know what to do next,I certainly dont want to pay £1,600 to get it fixed. I think i'll tow it back to the independent again and get it checked to see if any fault codes are there.
I'll give an update when I have one. - any sugestions please let me know.
[url= http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/garage-services/26838-diesel-03-mondeo-flashing-2.html ]http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/garage-services/26838-diesel-03-mondeo-flashing-2.html[/url]
this may be worth a look
seems the sensor is £14
As the OP, I'm happy to report that my problems seemed to be solved after a new fuel filter was fitted. 2 weeks and no problems so far {reaches for some wood}.
nice one m8 , was starting to wonder if you if you had broken down in the middle of nowear with no bike ,wot was up with old filter, water or just not seviced / changed , cheers
Don't ever take you car to a main Ford dealer mate. Ford use monkeys who aren't even qualified mechanics at their dealerships- to do servicing and even bigger jobs.
Also, the prices they quote you for the other bits are firstly, expensive, and the time they allow for each job is to get it into the garage, on a ramp, and back out- it doesn't allow for the fact that your car is already on the ramp if your having several things done.
They once tried to charge my Mum 180 quid to have a throttle position sensor changed. I did it myself in 10 minutes, including testing it on our road, for 30 quid for the part. I'm a competent home mechanic but this was a very easy job.
Glad to hear your problems are sorted.
Throttle pedal? Tank Breather tube? Get the codes read. Did glow plug light come on indicating fault logged?
Hello Again, todays update....
Tried to start car first thing and wouldn't start, as sugested got new Camshaft sensor and fitted it, cleaned connector with WD40 and car started first time. 😆
Been on test drive for about 40 miles and left to idle for an hour or so and seems OK...best £15 i've spent.
If I don't post here again, take it as read that the car is all fixed...Lets hope I dont put on any more replys!!
Thanks to all and hope this is of some use to others with the same problem.
Dave
