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Well, I passed my driving test this morning - 4 months shy of my target, my 40th!!
So, now, all eco credentials gone, I need a motor. 3 children (I'm leaving the more than 1 children thread well alone); town driving, some m/ways, A and B roads; economy important; not too attractive to tealeaves; not too long (short front of house parking) but room for at least 1 bike in the back/easy to fit racks.
Suggestions? I've had a quick look on Parkers.co.uk and I like the look of a Peugeot 206 SW; any other suggestions/tips/advice/etc?
Cheers.
Ford Focus or Golf hatchbacks?
Both will easily take 2 bikes in the boot with seats down ant easily seat a 2+3 family with a decent amount of boot space for luggage & stuff.
They also handle well & don't cost much to run.
ive got a 206SW 🙂
its RAD.
cheap as hell compared to something with a "nicer interior" (golf)
(mine was 5k with 28k on the clock: 2L HDi)
56mpg is pretty easy, engine is really strong, pulls well when its full
pretty hard wearing, its got luggage loops in the boot floor, which are very useful for tieing bikes down
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3 bikes, 3 people and all thier gear IN the car for a week away is do able, but cosy.
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not having the lip in the boot like a normal hatch makes a HUGE difference, the seats fold 100% flat in the back.
only need to take the frnt wheel and seatpost out i find, and they roll in upside down on the back wheel fine with room to spare
and being french and diesel, the wheels will have fallen off LONG before the engine coughs (fingers crossed)
....but then im biased
Heh, the SW is still looking a bit of a favourite then 🙂 Cheers.
Ford Focus is a definite contender - I like the look of the Golfs but year-for-year they look a bit pricier initially.
I would go for a Focus - cheap to run, cheap for parts and reliable. A Golf has no real benefits over one, apart from being more expensive to buy. Which isn't really a benefit.
My Focus is great, goes like stink, fits bike(s) inside/on roof, seats 5, gets 50+mpg, never looks dirty (they're all a mucky brown colour aren't they?)
my parents had a 206SW, there was always a warning light for something, the tracking was out every couple of months, the interior just falls to pieces when you look at it.
Add to that then number of "french car issues" amongst my friends (makes the MG Midget seem cheep and reliable!) and
Me<-----------------------someone else's very long barge pole-------------------------------------------------------> french cars
My parents replaced it with a focus estate, it's brilliant. Don't get hung up on MPG, if youve not had a car before your probably not going to do enough miles to make the difference in price and service costs between petrol and diesel worthwhile. And with the industries love-in with DMF's (now thankfully over) they dont realy go on and on anymore, more like onto 100,000miles at which point the car costs more to repair than its worth.
with 3 kids, try something like a Zafira - plus plenty of bike space
I wouldnt go near a 206.
Ford Focus estate
Skoda Octavia estate
Citoen Berlingo
or a Citroen Xsara (too small tho?)
Considering your family needs etc.
Nothing wrong with French cars, took a Xantia diesel to 160k in 4 years with no problems and my 405Mi16 ran to 150k before been sold for something quicker.
More recent offerings from peugeot have suffered a little in the reliability stakes. That said, I know more than one person who's fleet managers are sick and tired of Fords offerings being in for repair, and anything else feels like driving a tank unless it is pricey.
Not sure about horas avoiding a 206 but going with the berlingo etc - they're all based on the same electronics/engines/running gear so I presume he just dislikes the body?
Words of caution duly noted. So far I've yet to hear a bad word against a Ford Focus; I've now found out that a Zafira isn't an r'n'b singer; Skoda - yeah, maybe a consideration; Citroens? I'm not taken by the berlingo/xsara looks - shouldn't really be a consideration but I can't help that!
Cheers all 🙂
So far I've yet to hear a bad word against a Ford Focus;
You've just heard 3, 2 fleet managers who wish they'd never invested and one personal friend who said it's been the most fault prone car he's ever driven. Plenty of people "dis" the other options though.
Nothing wrong with French cars
😯
Assuming you'll not be spending a vast amount (first car), I reckon a Zafira fits the bill nicely. The mini MPV shape is more practical, fold the seats & you've basically got a van. They should be pretty cheap, & if you buy a petrol model you should get something with plenty of life left in it.
Personally, I wouldn't go for a 206SW if you've 3 kids, the 307SW would be much better.
You've just heard 3
Yeah, there was a gap between typing and pressing 'Send Post'. I get the feeling that faults happen with all cars but some less than others rather than any (cheaper) car being a model of reliability. The 206 and the Focus seem to tick a lot of boxes for me with the acknowledgment that there won't be a 'perfect car' just as there won't be a perfect bike...
I've got a 206 SW (2L HDi) got it a few months ago as I always wanted one! Had a 206 (2L HDi) before and that was a great car. Decided to get same engine type but just bigger version to hold all our biking and camping gear and love the SW to bits.
The best thing about it as it the rear window can open independently from the tailgate for quick and easy loading into the boot, like this:
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Saves so much hassle. And the bikes can easily go up top and gives much more room for stuff in the boot. I have 3 carriers on roof, could fit 4 but don't need to.
So far I've yet to hear a bad word against a Ford Focus
Well they tend to eat front tyres, although that may just be my driving style *ahem*. I'm on my second though.
The only other thing I'd say is to check out the cost of insurance. As you've never had a car you obviously won't have any no claims bonus, however given that you are err "more mature" than most first time drivers this may not be too much of a problem.
Yeah, I can appreciate the 307SW being a bit roomier for the children - they're 7, 3 and 2 - it might be that we get a 206SW/Focus/(Zafira?) for a couple of years and get something a little bigger then. We'll be moving in around 2 years time so will have more space to park in too.
Question is, what's the budget?
Depends on what you're prepared to spend, and what is important to you, but if you want economy/practicality/space for bikes and kids etc. then pretty much get an Estate... But not too big obviously.
So the suggestions of a Focus, the 206SW, Skoda Octavia, Citroen Xsara are all good (in Estate form). Personally, I'd go for a diesel in any of them, certainly in anything French or German (I'm counting the Skoda as German as it's essentially a VW), though the 1.6 petrol Focus is surprisingly economical and still quite nippy (steer clear of 1.8 and 2 litre though, they're not much more powerful, but a lot more thirsty), I did 500 miles in 2 days in one a couple of years ago, most of it at way more than the legal limit (naughty me!), and it returned 42mpg for the entire time!
no one makes a "bad" car as such now really.
every company has off days.
all cars will have bad examples out in the world.
a guy in my office states his old BMW as the most unreliable car hes ever had and would never touch a BM again.
bugs me when people bash french cars, mainly cause ive got one, i like it, and theyve more often than not got little more than "top gear dont like french cars" to go on.
i can pick holes in the 206:
its feels cheaper than a german equivelent, but then, it is cheaper.
the wipers are on the wrong (continental) way around, which annoys some people (though i never noticed till it was pointed out), the handbrake is closer to the passenger than the driver by about 2 inches, as its setup for a left hand drive car, and the pedals are REALLY close together (as with all small peugeots).
as with all these things. Have a drive, and also, have a play around with stuff that will bother you before you buy.
how easy is it to lower the back seats.
are they split seats?
if so, how, 40:20:40 or 60:40
with the rear seats down, does the drivers seat go back far enough?
First of all congratulations! One of the best days of my life passing my test 🙄
In terms of cars. Another vote for a Focus. I Had an Early (2000) 1.8 Tddi (see below) which I loved. put 13,000 miles on it in 4 months. Was mainly used as a loads lugger/bike carrier/van It never let me down, ever! Very good MPGs Engine was "ok" in terms of performance, the newer Tdci engine are alot better (115bhp as opposed to 90bhp) Also very cheap to buy/service/run etc...
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Having said that i'm impressed with the size of that 206 sw. I personally have never had a french car, just because i don't like the looks and style etc... however my uncle had a 405 estate which he took to 260,000 and think he still runs it now
Adding to Hora list, try looking at a Mazda 3 or Honda Civic.
If it was me though and had to cart about 3 kids with the kit that they come with, I would look seriously at a Volvo V40/50 estate.
I too would avoid Peugeot/Citroens, not a make I would want to be in a shunt with tbh.
Well DONT get a people carrier, just because you have more than 1 child does not mean you have to buy a bloody people carrier, my missus and I managed just fine with a 306 with 2 children. People carriers are silly cars for silly people. Get a Volvo 😆
C-Max although the interior gets a little rattly.
Can take 3 bikes inside and three riders (Take two rear seats out). Drives like an actual car.
Might be a bit of a mare for novice driver to park...
Budget is roughly c.£3.5k with a little give (it'll be clearer in a couple of weeks or so) - which means the 206SW/Focus options pretty much fall bang on there (i've already found a 206 at a local garage at 3500 bang on with 38k on the clock; petrol rather than diesel but i guess i can't have *everything* for the budget i'm on).
First of all congratulations! One of the best days of my life passing my test
Cheers 🙂 I'm still in a state of shock. I've got a meeting 10mins and I know I won't be able to (a) concentrate or (b) contribute anything 🙂
[i]So far I've yet to hear a bad word against a Ford Focus[/i]
You haven't spoken to my local garage then!
He can't stand them, says they prone to faults, they're a pain to work on and they're not really like any other Fords in terms of parts. He likes my Mondeo though...
£3.5k will get you some great cars, should think you'll easly get a low mileage MK2 focus in derv flavour.
I too would avoid Peugeot/Citroens, not a make I would want to be in a shunt with tbh.
Curious - PSA cars appear to be near the top of the Euro NCAP ratings, much the same as the others.
Ah yes- the Honda Civic. 5door oldshape. Strong residuals but always overlooked on STW.
Toyota? Hated by garages, because all they ever have to do to them is replace brake pads and tyres 🙂
We've a Corolla and my father-in-law's Focus feels like a rattly, plastic piece of crap compared to our car.
How about a Seat Leon? Based on a Golf, the original is a nice looking car & as Seat/Skoda/VW/Audi are all in bed together, it's a pretty safe bet in terms of reliability. Not been in one, but an old colleague had the Toledo which is the saloon version & the interior was very solid.
They aren't as desireable as Focus' on the 2nd hand market so you should be able to get a newer/lower mileage example compared to a Focus.
I'd never considered Seats until I got my Ibiza, but I'd happily have another one now. It's a great car, but perhaps a bit small for 3 kids, hence the Leon instead.
Agreed, toyota/honda are all largely bulletproof in terms of reliability from what I've heard/seen.
Focus's do appear to be a PITA to work on, my housemate opened up the bonnet and I couldn't imediately iodentify which gray box was the engine!
Possibly an odd sugestion, Fiat!
Depreciate like a stone, so cheep SH.
We've had 2 TD's in the past, one (Tipo) blew a radiator at well over 100k, and was disposed of as we wanted something newer (big mistake, it was followed by 3 cars in quick succession!). The second (tempra 1.9td) only needed a new turbo inlet hose (big diameter hose pipe worked fine and marginaly increaced performance!).
Toyota? Hated by garages, because all they ever have to do to them is replace brake pads and tyres
Until they go wrong.... quote from dealer for clutch replacement, £1200 + VAT + parts.
Quote from local garage - £600 + VAT + Parts.
For a sodding clutch change.
But then I did have to drop the box and engine, and the two subframes, and disconnect the transfer case from the prop shaft, and drain and refil the transmission.... 😀 Some toyotas cost big bucks to repair if taken to garages. Toyota seem to spend a lot of time making the cars right, and so put more ££ on the parts for when they do go.
Bonnet - £350 unpainted.
Two rubber subframe bushes - £100
Water pump - £169 (service part!)
Thanks all. My ex-wife drives a Toyota so not a popular choice with my fiancée (nor my eldest son!) so I won't be experiencing that famous reliability. I'll have a look into all suggestions. Started to get very excited for what it'll mean to the family and to my choice of routes 🙂
so I won't be experiencing that famous reliability.
No offence but I'm not sure I could sanely rule out cars because people I dislike own them?!
Buy a Toyota or a Mondeo estate and everyone will try climbing in late at night in towns or at traffic lights. You have been warned.
Ps. Toyota famous for their reliability? Oh yes and VW famous for their reliability.....yeah right. Ever brand is similar. Its advertising and perception. You might not know someone who has had something go wrong with their Toyota but thats because you dont know anyone dull or retired in your life.
Nothing wrong with French cars 😯
I had the misfortune to a own a Citroen BX Diesel estate that was probably one of the worst cars in the world EVER!!!! When I swapped that for something else i swore NEVER to own another french car while there was still a hole in my arse....
....however, I broke that pledge and now own a Clio 172 with 106,000 on the clock and it is probably the best car I've ever had. The dealers are crap, the interior is not the last word in luxury/solidity and certain well known shortcomings are best avoided, but after a few years of VW (old and crap interior) Skoda (very good, cheap as chips family car) and BMWMINI ownership (very nice, but after you've pressed all the buttons, it's still an over-designed, very big city car, and dealers were the worst of all!) I find it's best to first find what you need and choose a car based on that and not on someone else's idea of what a good car is 😀
Probably not best for you, but if you ever need a scarily rapid, fast-road/trackday car a renaultsport clio is good value for money 😀 I'd be looking for cheap insurance and running costs, and adequate seating for all of those burdens on the world-at-large children 😉 that you have. can't think of anything better than the 206 SW at the moment, but just be sure to find a good one and enjoy, it's only a car. so a tool for a job.
P.S. Olly, is that a pic at 24/12 last year? looks familiar.
Hit the North 1 trusty rusty 🙂
cant imagine my 206 is too easy to work on, shoehorning a 2l engine and all those fuel pumps into a "super mini" leaves bugger all room in the engine bay for things like "tools" and "hands"
not my problem though! 😉
Who'd have thought that northern feilds would look like soft, southern feilds eh?
Dumb question #2312
We're getting close to choosing something but one thing I can't get any agreement on from the people around me is what's an acceptable mileage for a used car.
All the cars we're looking at are 5yrs old or more and the figure I've come up with is less than 50k (ideally less than 40k) for a petrol but for a diesel I've no idea: everyone says something different. Any ideas?
If you are selling a car 20k per annum is fine for modern engines. If you are buying 10k a year is about spot on 😉
The golden rule is regular oil changes and maintanence- like clockwork.
Multipla.
Next question
I STILL think the Berlingo. Why? The kids, kit that comes with them. Its big, cheapy secondhand and a fun practical economical vehicle. Plus- you dont have to worry about kids swinging their doors open into traffic or in carparks etc (sliding door).
Estates are good but are still saloons with a big boot tacked on. Go and test drive one with all your kids along!
The trouble is that we have a v.short space in the front of the house but we still want to park on it rather than on the road. A Berlingo would give us 3cm clearance each side which, for a new driver (and my missus who should pass her test by Feb) is a bit tight.
I might double (treble) check the measurements tho.
Understand but I'm thinking of your family and all the kit that comes with them. Even with A.N.Other car- you will still really struggle to open and shut the doors comfortably- plus you'll end up with chunks out of the doors.
My drive is circa 5cm each side (concrete posts) and I STILL managed to graze the side reversing out. Its sods law- early morning, tired, winter.
My subaru Forester is big enough for me, missus, bike and one dog. When our first comes along we wont have enough room in the Forester. Three kids, kit and bike- I'd go for something bigger like a van-based car. Low insurance and highly practical 😀
All the best.
Cheers. At the moment a Mitsubishi Colt is looking fairly good..
My vote would be for a Zafira (bacause I've got one). Ideal with 3 kids as you can fit a couple of their mates with the additional 2 seats up - stops them bickering - or 2 in the middle and 1 in the back - again to stop bickering.
I've got the 2.0 DTI ('03 plate diesel) huge amount of room for bikes and stuff with the back seat down, hits 90mph on motorways with no problem (not much left after that though), 40+ mpg, cheap servicing and parts interior hasn't fallen apart yet despite the best intentions of the kids.
One thing to be aware of - the spare sits under the rear of the car in an unlocked cage so depending upon where you live they do have a habit of getting nicked.
Not exactly a "driver's car" though.
bbA
Cheers. At the moment a Mitsubishi Colt is looking fairly good..
I test drove two of these when I first passed as well- the engine choice is critical. One of the petrols I drove was zippy, the other lethargic but I cant remember which was which!
Ta - 1.1 gets v.good write up from lots of places (honestjohn.co.uk and Top Gear bimonthly car guide mag off the top of my head) and happily that's the one for sale - only 18K on the clock too. Strong contender 🙂
Zafira was a thought but wouldn't fit on our mini-drive.
£500 banger to find out what you really need, how bothered you are for fixing stuff yourself and to not give a damn about bumps and scrapes
will get you almost any 90's hatchback, mark 2 golf gtd or driver would be my choice
timber- agree but ..in winter and with kids. Well I wouldnt!
Heathenwoods - my sister used to have a Mitsubishi (Shogun Pinin) and servicing costs/spare parts were horrendous.
I don't know how important this is to you, but it might be worth ringing a Mitsi dealer & asking how much a minor/major service is for a Colt.
My sis had the car as a company car, so didn't actually end up paying but a standard service used to come out at about £400 from the main dealer. Probably a lot less I guess from an independent garage.
Something to bear in mind though, perhaps?
Edit - just to add a couple more to the list. Have you looked at the Renault Modus or the Nissan Note, yet?
Renault Modus
We had one as our second choice but were a bit thrown by tales of electronic/electric faults that have just begun emerging.
I don't know how important this is to you, but it might be worth ringing a Mitsi dealer & asking how much a minor/major service is for a Colt.
£130 at a main and the one we bought yesterday ([url= http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/200943344525141/sort/priceasc/usedcars/make/mitsubishi/model/colt/maximum-mileage/up_to_20000_miles/page/1?previous=%2Fsearch%2Fresults%2Fusedcars%2Fmake%2Fmitsubishi%2Fmodel%2Fcolt%2Fmaximum-mileage%2Fup_to_20000_miles%2Fsort%2Fpriceasc%2Fpage%2F1&anchor=advert200943344525141&logcode=p ]this one[/url]) was given a minor service by the dealer. Very nippy, nimble and versatile. Rear seats are foldable in multiple directions or removable making for a lot of bike space 🙂
Thanks to everyone for their help and advice (here and on the thread about the possibly dodgy motor - which turned out to be the dealers' innocent mistake. He'd sent off for reg plates with his garage name on, had two renaults and mixed up their reg plates)