[Closed] Help solve my London move dilemma - please!

No, 50K is only about a third of what you need for a decent lifestyle.

Yes!
No!
Yes!
Depends!

IMO 30k was the minimum to be comfortable in a professional, "zone 2" living, london lifestyle* in 2002/3. With inflation and rental increas, Id say its probably clsoer to 40k now.

(and before the lefties get all excited, that "lifestyle" is as a distiniction from "a bare minimum to survuive" or a "working wage" etc etc.)

I moved to London straight from Uni and left 6 opr 7 years later with a new wife who also wanted to move out of the city (even though she grew up in "London", beckenham). We met at the hockey club we were both members of. There are loads of ways of meeting new people. As for having more things to do, its odd, but you rarely make the most of city living when you live in a city 🙂 it's expensive as well.

Try it, you can always leave again.

hitman how old are you? (waves at stoner a once fellow WestHampstead'er) 🙂

LOL! Wish I had as much as that! Unless you have particularly spensive tastes, that will be plenty. More than enough. I mean, contrary to popular superstition, London's prices are pretty much the same as everywhere else. It's only really accommodation and houses, that cost more. And there's shitloads more choice.

Tell you what mate; why not come on our London Pootle next weekend, on the 29th? Come and meet people, have a ride round some of That London's famous London, see new stuff, maybe see the place in a whole new light.

The streets may not be paved with Gold, but it's an amazing place, if you open your mind.

Let me take you by the hand...

i will still only be earning 50k

as said, i think you'll find this is the bare minimum for londoninium. however should you wish to invest some in my nigerian bank deposit system i can happily arrange to find you suitable accommodation for a paltry 45k.

if you fancy a change and got that sort of income why not? you can always move back to rural place if it's not your thing. fill yer boots

London's not a sentence, you can come and go as you please. Especially on 50k!

Like Stoner says, try it!

and despite the fact that people like Hora turn up there, west Hampstead is a nice area (highest density of further educated peeps in the country 🙂 ) with a great hockey club.

🙂

Hitman - is there 'somewhere in between' - benefits of a city (people, stuff happening, shops at the end of the road etc), but with some benefits of being close to outdoor stuff?

It sounds like people is the main reason to move...?

Some cities (Sheffield, Bristol, Edinburgh, Glasgow for example) are very close to outdoor stuff.

50k is the bare minimum for London, your having a laugh 😆
So how do LOADS of people manage who earn less than that? When I first moved to London I earnt 11k a year.

If your 30's or younger, go for it. You only live once ffs and you'll regret not experiencing a move like that later on. I know alot of people who stayed in Huddersfield and never left. Yep great place but they never knew London. I had some fantastic years there, saw some really eye-raising stuff including weird clubs, scenes, stabbings, made some great friends and fell over alot.

The North Downs is less than 40mins from central London with some utterly fantastic riding to be had. I lived in West Hampstead and later in East Croydon- alot cheaper and 10mins from London. Please feel free to email me any questions at all (email in profile).

As for missing the great outdoors for hobbies, priorities. Life balance springs to mind. When you meet the right person (alot bigger chance in London) then you can downsize and reconsider, until then FFS enjoy your life- its the only one we have. Dont become bitter and isolated by staying in a rut. 🙂

50k will be loads to live a very good life in London so long as you're not aiming to live in Chelsea and keep Columbia's economy going.

There are loads of people in London who also like outdoorsy stuff so whether it's mtbing or other, you'll always be able to find like minded people to travel/do stuff with.

I'd say just give it a go and don't get completely caught up in the London thing of work/pub/recover and forgetting to do anything else (speaking as a Londoner who's seen lots of people including mtbers come to London and do exactly that!)

cheers everyone
I'm in my early 40s (he says coyly!)
Very unsure about this - one part of me wants to try it out, whereas another part of me thinks I could hate it! Also I think theres a truth in that theres lots to do in London but its very expensive to do those things, so you often the end result is the same. Also concerned that if I move up and do meet a partner, I'll want to move straight back to where I live now!
The joys of being indecisive!

"IMO 30k was the minimum to be comfortable in a professional, "zone 2" living, london lifestyle* in 2002/3. With inflation and rental increase, Id say its probably closer to 40k now."

I was going to get on my high horse about this until I read:

"(and before the lefties get all excited, that "lifestyle" is as a distinction from "a bare minimum to survive" or a "working wage" etc etc.)"

It's totally dependent on what you see as comfortable. Until I bought a flat in Walthamstow, I was living in zone 1 for a few years. Rent was high but I could walk/ride everywhere and going out could be a spur of the moment thing.

I lived in Covent Garden when I was earning £15k and I didn't think I restricted myself by not having much money. If you've got no dependents or responsibilities then I'm pretty sure anything over £25k is extra bike money.

Plenty of people ride in the downs/south london/etc, you can always take a train to somewhere else. I'm sure you'll have a great time.

Having said that, I'm not earning anything now so I'll let you know in a couple of months how that's going.

Different strokes for different folks and all that.

Cheers Hora, a lot of what you say rings true
A bit concerned I may be getting on a bit in my early 40s for a move
Not sure I'm going anywhere career-wise or life-wise staying here

matt
I was also thinking along these lines - maybe Bristol or Cardiff or similar
I do think I may be going from one extreme to the other!

where do you live at the moment??

i think you'll find this is the bare minimum for londoninium

LOL! If you have a taste for cocaine and spensive prostitutes!

London being 'spensive' is a myth. There's loads to do for nowt, and with an Oyster Card, transport is pretty reasonable, speshly considering the enormous extent of the tube, rail and bus network. It's stuff like housing and insurance that will carry a premium. A loaf of bread in Sainsbergs is the same price here, as in Aberystwyth. If indeed there even is a Sainsbergs in Aberystwyth. And if you shop around, places like Asian grocers, local markets etc, you will find some bargains.

The trick, in London, is to economise on the superfluous. You don't need a car, for example. A cheap tatty bike will do for pootling about, so yer bling machine don't get nicked. Why visit spensive restaurants, when you can find plenty of places selling fantastic food, for as little as £10 a head, or even less?

No, you can have a great time in London, on a lot less than youd imagine. You just gotta know where to look.

And the looking, is half the fun!

I live out in SW London (Raynes Park). I have a 20-minute train ride to Waterloo, or a 50-minute bike ride to work, and a 25-minute train ride to Dorking.

This works quite well as a compromise.

Early 40's? Well your finding your life partner where you are at the moment.

What have you got to lose? Rent out your place currently and live in London initially for a year. Take it from there and assess your situation at the 1yr anniversary.

I still have fond memories of Camden 🙂
Plus whenever I go back to London I suddenly drive WORSE than any londoner (cough traffic lights are 'advisory' and one way streets apply to others)

Seriously, it will be an experience in the very least. Worse case scenario? You stay where you are and your 50, single and angry with the world.

:-)hora, but probably quite true!

if you're in your early 40s and a "professional", then I suggest this might be a kind of budget you should look at (off the top of my head you realise):

per month

Rent £1,000-£1,200 for a 1/2 bed flat in Zone 2
Travel £90 travelcard per month
Dinner out £25 per night, say, £300 per month
Beers out £10 per night, say, £150 per month
Shopping £200 per month
Council tax £100 per month
Utilities £50 per month

= £2,100 per month before "exceptionals"

that works out at £35k before tax.

Stoner as hitman is single I'd advise a house share short term (to get to know someone) or...

rent outside zone 2 (£1k WTF!) - £600 a month for East Croydon etc.

If you live like Stner suggests, then you won't have a lot left over.

I know plenty of 'proffessionals', onthat sort of money or more, andthey don't spend anything like that amount a month.

£1000-1200 a month on a 1/2 bed flat???? Yes, if you simply must live in a Docklands apartment or something!

Of course, you lifestyle is up to you. You could follow Stoner's suggestion, and end up with **** all at the end of the month, or you couldbe a little more frugal, and have more to put away, or have for lovely things like holidays, new bikes or Cocaine and spensive prostitutes.

I know people who are 'living the dream', and there are loads of people willing to sell you that dream, but it aint gonna make you any happier. Bigger bills each month, maybe.

Find out where other STW/cyclists tend to live in London and move into that general area? Weekend riding sorted and a loose-circle of friends with shared interest to begin with?

If I was ever single, I'd live Manchester in a shot (and this is bloody city)- I'd move either straight to London or Edinburgh and start busting dance moves on alot of dancefloors, hanging out at libraries winking alot etc 🙂

All the best. Seriously, mail in profile. If anything it will be another opinion/angle to think about.

start busting dance moves on alot of dancefloors, hanging out at libraries winking alot etc

Oh, sorry, 'winking'; I thought you said...

You'd probbly get arrested a lot at your age, Hora.

Rudeboy, you live on an estate in the near east somewhere if I recall correctly? No offence, it is all naturally a matter of personal choice, but £1,000 a month for a 2 bed flat is not an outrageous rent in many parts of London. 🙂

[i]You'd probbly get arrested a lot at your age, Hora.[/i]

Even as a kid doing alot of questionable activities I was never arrested.

£1k for a 2bed flat? Thing is, hitman doesnt need two bedrooms. Initially he could get away with a largish studio until he learns London/locations better. Like I said he could get easily away with 600-700 max if he choses wisely. Google...

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?searchType=RENT&locationIdentifier=REGION^68910&radius=0.0&displayPropertyType=flats&minBedrooms=&maxBedrooms=&minPrice=&maxPrice=700&maxDaysSinceAdded=&sortByPriceDescending=&_includeLetAgreed=on&primaryDisplayPropertyType=&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldDisplayPropertyType=&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldSecondaryDisplayPropertyType=&letType=&letFurnishType=&houseFlatShare=false&x=83&y=2

I think £1k+ per month is excessive - rents seem to be diving down here in south London. I've been in London off and on over the years and still get a bit frustrated with the outdoors side of things. You can get to the Chilterns and the North Downs on the train easy enough but to get on the M4 for a weekend in Wales you can expect to sit in a lot of traffic out and back (took us 2.5hrs to get from the M25 to the flat one Sunday). Personally, I'd live in southwest or west London for ease of escape. Living in zone 1 or 2 isn't really necessary - I'm in 3/4 and it's still only 15 mins to London Bridge, Borough Market, the South Bank.
Other than that, it's what you make of it. It's a big place and most of my friends seem to live in my vicinity - I very rarely cross town to go out socially. But if it's right for your career, I'd say do it.

BD; With rents actually falling atm, £1000 pm is excessive, unless yo want something a bit 'nice', maybe with a little terrace of garden or something. There are plenty of cheaper options, as Hora points out. My place is spensive, as it's very near Canary Wharf, and I'm looking to move out soon, as I know I'll find something cheaper.

If you want to live in Hampstead, or posher parts of town, you will pay for it, but places like Hackney, Camberwell, Newham etc are a lot cheaper, and just as good if not better, in terms of local 'vibes'. Hampstad is not that great anyway; no soul. A mate of mine lives with his wife, in a nice little 2 bed terrace in Stratford, and pays only about £750 pm or less. Little garden too.

There are quite a lot of little flats within houses, that are springing up. You share a front door with a family, or whoever, but have yer own little self-contained bit.

Yes, accomodation can be spensive, but it needunt be killer, unless yer a ponce.

I think there's two sorts of "vibe" basically isn't there, one much more expensive than the other. My wife is a great fan of a rather genteel vibe, involving well-manicured people, black labradors, boutique shops, babies in very large prams, Cayennes on the street and organic granola. We have lived in places with a vibe which was more to do with crack-heads trying to chew through the front door and murder boards on the way to the station and she didn't like it. It was much cheaper rent, and the food was better admittedly. 😉

hitman, I'll move in with you. We'll be like Baddiel and Skinner in the early days 😀

But there's an awful lot in between, really!

We jolly well have not had a stabbing or owt for some weeks, now.

2 bed for 1k is quite cheap!
The thing about living further out is that any rent savings tend to be absorbed by rail fares. Cycling is an option, but its not as quick as you'd think due to the sheer volume of cars/busses/traffic lights and other cyclists.

If you don't do it, you will probably regret not trying. If you do go for it & don't enjoy it - at least you gave it a go & you'll likely have some stories to tell afterwards!

[i]If you don't do it, you will probably regret not trying. If you do go for it & don't enjoy it - at least you gave it a go & you'll likely have some stories to tell afterwards! [/i]
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Amen.

MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Many many thanks for the replies - really informative and helpful
Spending today thinking over my options so any more advice would be apreciated
BTW Hora I may take you up on that offer so be careful!!

Just an opinion, but I find living in London grinds you down. It's a ****in dive, people are horrid, nobody is friendly, far far different from what you're probably used to. Some on here see London through rose-tinted glasses, compared to everywhere else I've been in the UK, including other major cities, London is the crapest of the lot - fact. Sorry to burst your bubble but thought someone should mantion the sh*t side on London. Oh and remember buy a stab vest...

£1000-1200 a month on a 1/2 bed flat???? Yes, if you simply must live in a Docklands apartment or something!

fred, anywhere in zone 2 (i.e. not out essex with the fishwives where you live) is going to be around that price now. There are almost no "bargains" in zone 2. Furthermore, the OP is in his early forties and a professional.

Not an 18 yr old yoof with an apple mac like you.

Finally, a flat share or rent a room might be fine for the short term or for the younger professional, but I expect for a more mature man it wouldnt be so great. Not least because h's going to be on the pull, picking up slighlty more discering ladies who might not want to end up picking their way across a flat-mate's dirty laundry on the way to seduction heaven!

I reiterate, to live the comfortable lifestyle of a professional man in your late thirties/early forties in central london requires about £35k.

Yes, but the shit side can be found in any other major city. Which won't have a lot of the benefits of London.

As for 'people are horrid', well, I'd suggest that with that sort of attitude, you aren't going to have too many positive experiences with others.

I've experienced rudeness and unfriendliness in some very nice little rural villages. London does not in any way have the monopoly on this.

I find, if you take a moment to try and empathise with others, you will be treated a lot more warmly. Many people do put up a barrier, as a city with 13 million people living and working in it can be a scary place. But take a step back, relax, smile and have a cheery disposition, and you can disarm all but the most uptight miserable ****ers.

A lot of people come here with preconceptions about how things will be. And if only one or two negative things happen, to confirm theri 'suspicions', then you'll never be able to change their minds.

London is not a place for the narrow minded, the bigoted, the ignorant. Like I say, have an open mind to stuff, and you can have a great time.

Of course, there are some who can't hack it. Just a bit too feeble minded.

S'a fantastic place! Greatest City on Earth! Come on, give it a go. What you got to lose?

Don't let the media scare stories or all those murder boards put you off, London is perfectly safe so long as you carry a knife.

[s]Don't let the media scare stories or all those murder boards put you off, London is perfectly safe so long as you carry a knife[/s]

[b]Tech9.[/b]
Leave a beautiful corpse hitman. Dont die old by the sea.

fred, anywhere in zone 2 (i.e. not out essex with the fishwives where you live) is going to be around that price now. There are almost no "bargains" in zone 2. Furthermore, the OP is in his early forties and a professional.

Not an 18 yr old yoof with an apple mac like you.

Bullshit. Prices are coming down all the time. A mate of mine owns a flat on the Isle of Dogs. 2 bed, ex-council (now HA). Fantastic view of the Thames, and City. He first had it up for £1400, last year, pre-Apocalypse. Had to drop the price, again and again, as there was no interest. I think it's now being let at £1k pm. His mortgage has come down a good chunk, so he still earns from it.

This is 5 minutes walk fro Canary Wharf. One of the most spensive parts of London.

Of course, as I said, if you do want a 'luxury' pad, then you will pay over the odds.

And BTW; I'm in my late 30s, and also a 'professional'. So not much different to the OP. Last year, this flat looked like a good deal. My investigations have shown I could be saving up to £200 a month, merely by moving to another area. So, I will be doing so.

And I live almost in the shadow of One Canada Square. Zone 2; DLR 100m from my building, loads of transport links close by, etc. Hardly 'Essex'.

Of course, if you only look at the showcase places in estate agents' windows, you will tend to find their 'best' (most spensive) properties. Dig a bit deeper, and there's a lot more choice.

FFS RudeBoy you are soo bloody predictable, are you on another wind up like yesterday?

He's heard the good side, from people like you, and I just pointed out the other side, and the other side really does exist despite the blinkers attached to your head

I'm not going to be drawn into a whos right and whos wrong with you, especially after yesterdays admission that you just post your shite to wind people up

When are you gonna get a life and stop trying to "educate" everyone in the "Ways of the RudeBoy"

The irony here is that a WHOLE lot of the problems in London are caused by "rudeboys"