[Closed] help me update my music system please....

dont know why theres a duplicate, mods, please delete one.

I had a surprisingly similar set up to you which needed upgrading a few months back. I decided to go for the Sonos system. I paired two S1's in the lounge and an S3 in the kitchen/diner. 6 months on I could not be happier. I have R6Music streaming all the while during the day (set as an alarm to get up to) and then when I settle down in the evening I use it to stream from Spotify. (I chose Spotify as Sonos had a special offer at the time which I have continued with as they integrate so well. Deezer might too, I've never used it)

Total outlay was about 500€ and it all runs off a fairly basic French internet connection controlled by Mac/iPad/Phone which ever is closest at the time.

As good as the Sonos things are, for me they are much more about conveneance than sound quality.

Everybody that knows me and has one raves about it for quality - until they hear a similar priced proper hifi, when they go quiet 😉

If I was in your shoes sadexpunk, I'd take the top off the amp and see if there are any quick blow glass fuses in the amp. These are there to protect the output stage and do deteriorate over time, giving symptoms you describe.

I had exactly the same in my Arcam Alpha 6+ amp, and replacing the fuses sorted it. Might not work, but for £2 or so it has to be worth a try.

Then the speakers ideally want sitting on small floor spikes or rigid stands and moving away from the corners and enclosed space. I'm suprised they don't boom away like mad where they are now.

If you can lose the cabinet on the right (tall one), bring the speakers in and out a bit, and centralise everything up it should give a much better sound.

Then some form of audio box / server thing with analogue out to feed into the amp will do, as that can be controlled via mobile devices.

BB, didnt really want to pay the sonos premium, was hoping to get something at a more 'reasonable' price, but...... never say never 🙂

twonks, the speakers are actually on little spikes. as for changing their positioning, i certainly dont have an ear for good quality sound, my username should tell you that 😀 the sound they produce right now is plenty good for me and i have no trouble other than that amp issue. ill have a fiddle with it, but its a faff taking it in and out of the cabinet as it only just fits and i have to take shelves out, angle it down and then it only just comes out. i thought if theres a suitable streaming type jobbie itd be bound to be smaller and more suitable 🙂

thanks

😆 In that case you might be well sorted with something like the below.

http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-16125-denon-ceol-piccolo-dra-n4-networked-micro-system.aspx

We have one in our bedroom powering some Kef floorstanders and it sounds very good for what it cost.

Combined with network capability and digital/optical in at the back (for your TV if needed), it's a cracking bit of kit.

Hi Twonks. TBH I am sure you are right about the quality of HiFi systems V Sonos. But I am not an audiophile, I love music and as I said I have it on from the time I wake up to the time I go to bed. So for me it's perfect.

I agree there is premium to the brand but at the time they were the main player, perhaps others have joined the market which are better value.

The big plus point is that they just work, straight out the box.

twonks, thats the sort of recommendation i was looking for thanks. googled it and that led me to all sorts of links to similar items from cambridge and the like 🙂 would you say thats the best one at that price (found one at £200), or would a little more money buy me something noticeably better? bearing in mind that like bianchi boy....

But I am not an audiophile,

The big plus point is that they just work, straight out the box.

not that its really relevant to my music, but i also seem to faff around with the normal chromecast too, try casting and it says 'screen mirroring' rather than casting and just seems to show my laptop screen rather than open the chromecast apps. when it does work i find it better than the android box but it just seems a bit faffy to me.

like i say, irrelevant really as my questions about the music but im agreeing that something that 'just works' is obviously desirable too.

thanks

Not got much time as we are waiting to catch a plane, but yes I didn't find much better unless spending silly money.

The Denon works well and sees phones, Internet etc with a few button presses.

Sonos is a lot better functionality wise as it always just works, and of course for multi room use it cones into its own.

For me though the Denon covers all I need.

Pure Jongo A2 (£20 from Amazon) attached to hifi and Plex Server/Client set up. Client should be on a tablet or phone bluetoothed to the Jongo and you're all set to play all the music on the server or Internet radio from iTrip app or similar.

thanks twonks, enjoy your holiday if thats where your planes taking you 🙂

sandwich, that just totally baffles me, ive no idea what it means at all 😀
is it something else that needs connecting to an amp (so id still have to buy/fix my amp) for me to play music from my phone?

and if so, why would that be better than my chromecast audio?

which leads me to another question...... if i have a song on my phone and play it on my speakers via wifi, will it sound better than playing it over bluetooth? (and if wifi's better then why would i consider a bluetooth jongo?)

thanks

been googling the pure jongo and does indeed seem to be an add-on to connect to an amp, so still interested in what that would give me over a 'chromecast connected to an amp', if anything. also seems to be a fair few people struggling with setting it up and dropping signals etc.

also i wouldnt mind a definitive answer on the wifi/bluetooth quality question please, is wifi superior?

thanks

Wi-fi suffers less drop-outs, but I doubt you'd be able to tell audio quality apart. I got fed up with Chromecase audio needing to be plugged in all the time, so now run a cable from the headphone socket in my laptop to the Aux in my hi-fi. Modern technology eh? 😆

If you have Facebook have a look at North Hill Audio. He's helped a few of us on Retrobike (there's a thread there too) resurrect old hifi. He should be able to fix the amp and maybe a few practical upgrades.

dez, why would being plugged in all the time be a prob? its sposed to be plugged in isnt it? certainly no prob for me as nowts mobile in my setup so just plug stuff in and leave it. i think id be more p1ssed off plugging me laptop in 🙂

kaiser, ive messaged them thanks.

Just connected to the mains all the time, sitting there like a little round out of place thing with it's little white light glowing. But yeah, I do have my laptop pretty much plugged in all the time 😆

just looking at maybe buying that denon ^^^ twonks linked me to. before i click buy tho, can i make sure i can plug everything i want into it? and some understanding of the other connections please?

[img] [/img]

im just a bit wary cos theres no aux on it, so where would my chromecast audio go? or would i now not need it as the denon would replace it?

so..... speakers into the er.... speakers section, then what goes into the digital connection, my tv? at present the tv goes into the back of my amp with red and white plugs, is this just a better way of connecting tv to the digital socket?
so what about analog connector and the subwoofer out, whatre they all about? also i can see the network connection but whats the WPS and IOS connections for?

thanks

Its a nice little amp, but I would want something with a few more connections for the Living room, such as HDMI/ARC and a couple more analogue inputs.

It might be fine if your TV has an optical output, as that Denon has an optical input. I think the Chromecast would then use the Analog input, but that means you can't connect anything else directly to the amp.

I would recommend something by Yamaha, they generally have more inputs than you'll ever need, bluetooth and a few having Airplay too. Just make sure it fits as the Yamaha's can be quite big.

I can add some info on the Pure Jongo system - basically don't do it! It's not what you're looking for, as you correctly identified it still needs to be plugged into an amp and it is essentially the same as Chromecast.
The benefits are it does multi-room fairly well, I have 2 x A2's in the house and an T6 (has speakers built-in) and they sync up pretty well and can also stream internet radio. The downsides are you pretty much have to do everything through the Pure App and they have stopped doing any updates and I suspect it's already a dead format.

thanks v8, id pretty much decided i wasnt going down that route.

Its a nice little amp, but I would want something with a few more connections for the Living room, such as HDMI/ARC and a couple more analogue inputs.

It might be fine if your TV has an optical output, as that Denon has an optical input. I think the Chromecast would then use the Analog input, but that means you can't connect anything else directly to the amp.

I would recommend something by Yamaha, they generally have more inputs than you'll ever need, bluetooth and a few having Airplay too. Just make sure it fits as the Yamaha's can be quite big.

ta

EDIT: current amp doesnt have optical.

Got an hour or so whilst the wife is out running on the beach.

Inputs depend on what you're going to ultimately need.
Always nice to have more, but if not needed then I wouldn't worry.

If your tv does the source switching and you're not bothered about surround sound etc, I'm sure it will have some form of digital out to go into the Denon. Will likely need enabling in settings, but is a relatively easy thing to do.

Have a look in the to manual or google 'make and model digital audio out' and see what it has.
If it's coax digital out you'll need a £20 box to convert it to optical that goes between the TVs and amp.

Arc in hdmi means audio return channel and means you can use the same lead to send audio back into the amp, but this isn't something you need to worry about at the moment.

Your arcam definitely won't have digital audio in and would have used line level phono, hence the red and white leads.

After all that, if you can connect the tv to amp using digital, and others via Bluetooth/ wifi, what else needs to go into it?

The Bluray can use the analouge connection if there is nothing else needed.

Others, including Yamaha amps offer loads more inputs and configuration options but if not needed now or for the foreseeable future I'd question the need.

And finally, if it does all change in future, the Denon isn't too expensive to chop in for something else, or move to a second room.

Have a look in the to manual or google 'make and model digital audio out' and see what it has.
If it's coax digital out you'll need a £20 box to convert it to optical that goes between the TVs and amp.

[url= https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/support/televisions-projectors-lcd-tvs/kdl-40ex403/specifications ] googled sony KDL40EX403 digital audio out[/url]
that tell you what you were after?

After all that, if you can connect the tv to amp using digital, and others via Bluetooth/ wifi, what else needs to go into it?

The Bluray can use the analouge connection if there is nothing else needed.

took your advice from first post and looked inside amp 😀 er..... now where do i look for those quick blow glass fuses? 😀

[img] [/img]

I had a pure jongo - I didn't like it at all, convenient to stream to but the sound was sort of muffled and I cold change it at all.

Just bought a cheap Philips Bluetooth adapter for hifi (£24 I think)

I'd not got rid of my original onkyo amp and decent speakers - so now I can get shot of the jongo for streaming and just use my hifi.

I'm sure there are better more expensive ways of doing this - but it's fine until I really decide I want to change everything

TV lists optical audio out so no problem.
Sorry, wasn't thinking, course the bluray can go into the tv via hdmi and sound out back down digital audio.

I'm not really up on the chromecast and what it does. Basically you'll have one analogue input to decide what to plug into.

Doesn't look like it has any glass fuses. Doh. Could start looking at tracing and metering channel outputs but if it isn't immediately obvious like a loose board mounted component, I'd leave it or drop arcam a line. They'll probably suggest a £200 service and replace all capacitors as they are getting on a bit.

After all that, if the fault isn't immediately obvious, a new amp could be the best option.

Ps. If you want to stream via Bluetooth, make sure it is using aptx or some other high quality connection. Generic Bluetooth audio mostly sounds pants and as dull as dishwater, even to non audiophiles

The shonky left channel might be just down to bad speaker connections, that terminal looks, well, [i]terminal[/i].
Getting some new banana plugs and cable, QED 39-Strand is the budget standard, and re-wiring them might well be all you need; over time the connections oxidise and get dusty, brand new connectors and wire can't hurt.
That's about as cheap as you can go for trouble-shooting.
The fault might be a dry joint on a board, perhaps where the speaker outputs are soldered on, difficult to say, but that's another possibility.
Arcam make good amps, it would be a shame to bin it if the fault is a relatively minor one.

thanks again chaps

Basically you'll have one analogue input to decide what to plug into.

Could start looking at tracing and metering channel outputs but if it isn't immediately obvious like a loose board mounted component, I'd leave it or drop arcam a line. They'll probably suggest a £200 service and replace all capacitors as they are getting on a bit.

If you want to stream via Bluetooth, make sure it is using aptx or some other high quality connection. Generic Bluetooth audio mostly sounds pants and as dull as dishwater, even to non audiophiles

The shonky left channel might be just down to bad speaker connections, that terminal looks, well, terminal.

Getting some new banana plugs and cable, QED 39-Strand is the budget standard, and re-wiring them might well be all you need; over time the connections oxidise and get dusty, brand new connectors and wire can't hurt.

thanks for your help, much appreciated.

Good luck with your upgrades, sadex.

I won't do the usual as you're on a budget and so on, but I hear good reports about Sonos/Spotify streaming from people who aren't fussy about audiophile quality reproduction.

In my own system, the streamer comes with Spotify and Tidal locked in. I tried Deezer and Qobuz for "lossless" files but could only lever them in by using a Chromecast dongle.

I found that the audio quality suffered unacceptably, so I wouldn't recommend this as a useful method.

I would suggest going for a "WiFi router/streamer/amp" solution without any intervening adaptation boxes and the like, though. The less interruptions in the information path the better, IMO.

You'd also be well advised to get rid of the cabinet and put your boxes on a proper hifi stand.

Don't forget the angel-hair directional speaker cable. It makes all the difference! 😉

Hiya,

I use a chromecast audio and it is using a optical connector as I can wee in your above picture. Chromecasts support optical. To be honest they are OK but not great but still better and cheaer than some alternatives.

BR
Jerry

In my own system, the streamer comes with Spotify and Tidal locked in. I tried Deezer and Qobuz for "lossless" files but could only lever them in by using a Chromecast dongle.

I found that the audio quality suffered unacceptably, so I wouldn't recommend this as a useful method.

I would suggest going for a "WiFi router/streamer/amp" solution without any intervening adaptation boxes and the like, though. The less interruptions in the information path the better, IMO.

You'd also be well advised to get rid of the cabinet and put your boxes on a proper hifi stand.

Don't forget the angel-hair directional speaker cable. It makes all the difference!

thanks mate

EDIT:

I use a chromecast audio and it is using a optical connector as I can wee in your above picture. Chromecasts support optical. To be honest they are OK but not great but still better and cheaper than some alternatives.

@ sadex.

so you have all your lossless files on pc and cast them to the hifi am i right?

I burned all my then CD collection to a USB which is plugged into the streaming box. Everything else is on a lossless Tidal account which I stream directly via my Note 4 mobile using a NAIM app.

I'm not familiar with the Denon streamer, you'd need to investigate if it was completely open to all services or if it comes embedded like my NAIM. If it's open then you'll not need the chromecast. If embedded, it might be best to stick with what's on offer.

I'd also recommend hard-wiring your router to the streamer via an ethernet cable "Cat7" rather than relying on the in-room signal.

I think you'd be surprised with siting your boxes differently. Why not try a quick experiment?

Put them along the top of the cabibet supported by three small nuts (as in nuts and bolts) with each nut resting on a bit of blutack.

I'd be interested to read about the outcome.

If you can't access the angel hair cable, I hear the unicorns' tail alternative offers reasonable results... 😉

PS: @ sadex

Sorry, I've re-read the thread and see I've assumed your Denon amp is a streamer, which of course it's not.

Please read my advice as now recommending a separate streamer box to plug into your amp. 😳

I would also recommend visiting a good Hifi retailer with your budget and the advice you have had so far, as your next step...

sorry mate but im still confused. is the denon NOT a streaming box then? this is the bumph that to an audio doofus like me suggests it is......

The Denon DRA-N4 is a sleek and stylish Wi-Fi music system that provides a range of wireless streaming features and delivers a powerful performance at a great price.

Accessing your music collection has never been easier via the DRA-N4's own integrated Wi-Fi and Ethernet cable connection, supporting Airplay wireless streaming and providing access to lossless streaming of high definition music files through your home network.

Bluetooth streaming is available with simple and easy NFC pairing and features Spotify Connect and internet radio. However you are also able to directly connect your iPhone, iPod and other USB memory devices using the front panel USB port. Both digital optical and analogue audio inputs are available at the rear of the system for connecting to your TV and most other audio devices.

You will be in complete control using Denon's own Hi-Fi remote app available on Apple and Android devices providing a simple and enjoyable experience.

For a music system that hosts a fantastic range of useful wireless features and functionality while remaining sleek and stylish then the Denon CEOL Piccolo DRA-N4 is perfect.

Looks like a streaming box to me. Appears to only supports Apple devices out of the box?
Actually looks exactly like what I was looking for a year or so ago, wonder if it could stream from my NAS...

Definitely a streaming box - check the manual [url= https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjq24DW5YPWAhVkCcAKHd6SCNkQFgg-MAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.manualslib.com%2Fmanual%2F884984%2FDenon-Ceol-Piccolo-Dra-N4.html&usg=AFQjCNGtxxlyMzpTTn_PAPm2YecAAXbQSA ]here[/url]. Supports Splotify too.
(tempted!)

Yeah, so in answer to your earlier post, this would be a decent box for you if you nno longer want to use turntable/cassette/minidisc hi-fi units as it's kind of a replacement for those. For you modern, trendy streaming types.
For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say. The Denon, having the speakers connected directly isn't really that sort of thing. ie, the speakers (and subwoofer) are the only output it has.
(Not sure what else uses optical out, apart from minidisc...)

Appears to only supports Apple devices out of the box?

For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say.

sadexpunk - Member
sorry mate but im still confused. is the denon NOT a streaming box then?

YOU'RE confused. Try being me...

Double 😳

Had a look at it on the interwebs. It's an integrated streamer and amp in one box...

I'd still recommend a visit to a decent retailer for advice and to listen to the competition (Cambridge?) available at your budget...

what does that mean in real terms? surely its just as easy to use deezer from my android phone/chromebook? connect to wifi, open deezer, play? so how does it serve apple users better?

I don't think so. It needs some software in the box to be able to connect to the music player in your phone (and vice-versa, I believe). The Apple stuff is built in (Apple Airplay), so works.
(If you Deutsch sprechen -

) At about 6 mins he shows the Denon app on his iPhone - check the Android apps see if its got one, then I'l be proven wrong. 🙂

For me, I really want something that will integrate with current hi-fi as an additional aux unit, say.

so you have a decent amp and just want a box to enable streaming now yep?

Maybe, or proably an amp to replace mine with the wifi/usb/bt included.

(Jeez, that German fella has got appalling music taste 😆 )

I'd be keeping the speakers if I was you. Just get the amp repaired or replaced.

Just been into superfi and been yapping to the lad in there. He recommended a Yamaha crx-n470d over the denon, just for the casting app. Ill google it all tomorrow as I'm out now.

He did mention my arcam amp fault is common, it's the selector knob and described to a T what happens, said he had one too.

And no, I wouldn't want to be getting rid of the speakers.

Yeah, liking the Yamaha, app supports Apple and Android. It even has a CD player 😀

Reviewed by Dogtanian here

If it's the selector knob on the amp you could try cleaning it. You can buy electrical switch cleaner in an aerosol form. Spray it into the knob and work it throughout it's range. YouTube has loads of videos on it. Got to be worth a go for £5 or so?

It was a good amp in it's day and possibly still has years left in it.

I have a pair of those speakers that I bought off eBay years ago, they sound good to my ears. I have read that they are similar to some EPOS speakers, as at the time of manufacturer they were sister companies.

just reading up on it and i think im leaning towards it now, if only for the musiccast app and the multi-room. i dont need multi-room, but it seems a bit more 'futureproof' and means my lads can effectively have their own sound system in their rooms if they so desire, just with a family deezer account, compatible speaker and the app on their phone.

i will try sorting the amp knob out first tho, nothing to lose. the superfi lad did say tho that its highly likely its knackered, he looked into fixing his and couldnt so sold it on. apparently that amps very desirable still even when broken 😮
he was very good, googling pictures of the internals showing me the actual selector knob casing inside the amp, stating that its a common fault and a right faff to fix. people have been known to drill little holes into the casing to take it off or somethings like that, didnt really understand too much 😀
ill put it all back together again tho and spray with leccy cleaner, my attempt at fixing wont be going as far as drilling 😀

forgot, matey also mentioned my speakers may not sound as good with the smaller systems like the denon/yamaha due to them being 60w or somethings, and my speakers ideally want >100w? said those systems may actually sound better with smaller more suited speakers. i did wonder if he was just trying to sell me more stuff, but i think he was just genuinely enthusiastic and knowledgeable about his job. it was good chatting to him and he tried explaining 'complicated' things to me in a simple way.
he asked if i could bring em in to their 'listening room' to test em with different equipment, but i dont think ive got an ear for small differences like that 😀

Room will be different do not a lot of point, you need to test with those speakers in your room.

Denon amps are often quite capable.

Room will be different do not a lot of point, you need to test with those speakers in your room.

found [url= http://www.amprepairservices.co.uk/repair-blog/4559566775 ]this web page which pretty much implies that cleaning the selector would be fruitless.[/url] (3rd article down)

then found [url= https://www.avforums.com/threads/newbie-needs-advice-on-arcam-delta-290.174472/ ]this page which details the methods a couple of people have tried.[/url]

this is the inside of the selector switch that needs accessing to clean.

[img] [/img]

if im going to bin the amp anyway, i may as well have a bash at trying to cut into the switch housing with a multi-tool or somethings.....

forgot, matey also mentioned my speakers may not sound as good with the smaller systems like the denon/yamaha due to them being 60w or somethings, and my speakers ideally want >100w? said those systems may actually sound better with smaller more suited speakers. i did wonder if he was just trying to sell me more stuff, but i think he was just genuinely enthusiastic and knowledgeable about his job. it was good chatting to him and he tried explaining 'complicated' things to me in a simple way.

Go to a number proper hifi shops and tell them what you would like. See what they come up with regarding tech and budget.

You can buy certain things on line but hifi isn't one of them unless you're prepared to make mistakes along the way.

yeah tis true, i think it was just to see if i could notice the difference between different sized amps with the speakers.

still not valid - the way your speakers drive your room may mean that your power requirements are very different from those needed in the shop listening room - listening distances, shape of room and resonances, position of speakers within the room and which resonances get excited, etc. And worse if it was on the shop floor rather than a dedicated listening room.

Some smaller speakers are often a lot more difficult to drive well than larger speakers, as long as you have the room to accomodate larger speakers. And small speakers often show up differences in amps much more readily as they have different, and deficient, bass handling and the amount of bass present makes a huge difference to your perception of the balance of the sound.

If you were happy with your Arcam and those speakers then I would get the arcam serviced, if it is old it will likely need new capacitors for example.

My amp is an 80's Technics with some ridiculous and mostly pointless switches.
A local retired engineer serviced it and sorted out the crackling switches changed some bits and bobs and it sounds great to me( better than sonos anyway).

I would fix up the amp and plug Alexa or your choice of streaming music into it.

hmmmm okay, thanks chaps. must admit id like to keep the amp but im not wanting to throw money at a problem thats difficult to fix and may become expensive. add to that my method of listening is more modern now (streaming) and i just thought its time to bite the bullet and move with the times......

what i plan to do tomorrow is use either a multi-tool or a battery operated ring cutter we have at work and try and cut into that selector box ^^^, open it up like a tin can and clean it out 😀
not really sure how easy thatll be but i figure theres nowt to lose.

I would fix up the amp and plug Alexa or your choice of streaming music into it.

cheers

I was lucky in having the audio engineer on hand, maybe worth a google around youre area someone may do similar work.

If not that denon amp looked pretty good to me. Regards source I'm not sure whats best I dont like apps find them a faff. I have a CD player to listen properly and Alexa using amazon music for background or party music.

I like Alexa because I prefer talking to tapping, anything else seems old fashioned!

ill have a play with it myself mate, always more satisfying if you can fix something for nothing and learn somethings while youre at it.

if i cant get into it with a multi-tool or ring cutter i may change my mind 😀

had a google of 'deezer vs amazon music' to see if im missing a trick and i could get the same sort of quality and range of music from amazon but include prime into the mix for the same money, but it seems deezer and spotify still seem better regarded than amazon.
im also the opposite to you in that id probably feel a bit daft shouting "play x-ray spex germ free adolescents" at a box on the side, id rather just tap tap tap on a phone or laptop 🙂

thanks

id probably feel a bit daft shouting "play x-ray spex germ free adolescents" at a box on the side

I would try them all all, on trials if possible until you find what works for you.

I would still get it properly serviced if it is getting on in age - a mate has some lovel very-expensive Spendor floorstanders but they don't sound great at all as his old Talk amps need a service.

well i rang a local hifi shop who said theyd charge around £60 to have a look at it and see if its serviceable, but said that even if they managed to desolder, clean up then resolder, it may only last a few months and they dont sell them any more. so that made up my mind, no chucking money at it, ill try meself or scrap it.
heres the 'before' pic, selector switch is the silver block top left.

[img] [/img]

tried a ring cutter first, didnt cut the mustard, kept stopping as not enough power. tried a multi tool which still took a fair bit of effort to get through the substantial stainless steel cover. eventually split the cover and peeled it up from the back to expose the contacts.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

and thats where it stops for now as i forgot to bring my electrical cleaner to work with me, dohhhhh. ill see if i can borrow some from a mate, if not itll be 4 days til im back home again. plan is to somehow soak the contacts whilst continually moving the selector switch. havent sussed out the best way of doing that yet 😀

right, home now and put it all together and its not working properly, but...... id like to check a couple of things with you first before i scrap it?

[img] [/img]

whats happening is no sound to LH speaker in stereo. but.... there is sound in mono, which suggests its not a speaker fault.

also at the back of the amp there are speaker connectors for SP1 and SP2. ive got mine in SP2 and the SP2 button pressed in on the front. thats almost certainly right but i just wondered if there could be any chance of them working in SP1 (whatever the SPs are)

clutching at straws i know, the only other thing i can think of trying is swapping the 2 speaker wires around in the back of the amp for the LH speaker.
you know how you used to have a black line on one of the strands on speaker cable, i never really knew what it meant but i assume it meant the cables should go in one particular way round. well both my strands are plain white, so could that cause a 'mono but not stereo' problem if they were wrong way round?

problem is exactly the same if i try red/white plugs in all the different inputs, cd, tuner, tape etc.

ill probably p1ss about with it for a bit longer before giving in but just after some 'hifi savvy' thoughts on possible reasons for speakers having mono sound but nothing when switched to stereo.

thanks

I had a crackly amp that had selector issues. I sprayed wd40 into the moving bits and it fixed it, completely unscientific approach. Worth trying before shelling out.

s'wat ive been trying with electrical cleaner mate ^^^ 🙂

ta

If the speakers are connected the 'wrong' way round then they will just be out of phase, so bass performance will be cut a lot and the midrange/treble will sound 'phasey'. It won't go mono.

The SP1 and SP2 are probably just for two sets of speakers, I would have thought SP1 was the normal ones to use, so you might as well try it.

yeah, been swapping speaker cables about, SP1 and 2, nowt changes, the LH speaker has nothing in stereo, only mono whatever i do. i dont think theres anything left to swap about, have to accept its borked :-/

shame, as i like to resurrect dead things and save a bit of money, doesnt look like ill be successful in this case.

thanks for your help chaps.

sadexpunk - Member

whats happening is no sound to LH speaker in stereo. but.... there is sound in mono, which suggests its not a speaker fault.

Unlikely to be a speaker fault from the sounds of it. But sure fire way to check is to swap the speakers around and see if the fault stays on the same side.

also at the back of the amp there are speaker connectors for SP1 and SP2. ive got mine in SP2 and the SP2 button pressed in on the front. thats almost certainly right but i just wondered if there could be any chance of them working in SP1 (whatever the SPs are)

All this means is that there are outputs for 2 sets of speakers (SP1 being one set & SP2 being another set). Presumably you have 2 sets of speaker connections on the back of the amp, labelled SP1 & SP2?

A simple thing to try would be to swap them over to SP1, flick the SP1 switch & see if that works. I don't know the architecture of an amplifiers design to know where the signals get sent & split, but trying this would only be 5 mins work.

clutching at straws i know, the only other thing i can think of trying is swapping the 2 speaker wires around in the back of the amp for the LH speaker.
you know how you used to have a black line on one of the strands on speaker cable, i never really knew what it meant but i assume it meant the cables should go in one particular way round. well both my strands are plain white, so could that cause a 'mono but not stereo' problem if they were wrong way round?

It won't make any difference.
The terminals are coded red & black and wires normally have an identifier on them, so you wire both speakers up 'the same way round'.
Each speaker doesn't care which way round it gets a signal, but when you have a stereo pair you want them to be wired in the same way.
This means you have both speakers 'in phase'. If you wire one speaker the other way round (so they are 'out of phase'), the sound will likely be tinny & lacking in bass.

But sure fire way to check is to swap the speakers around and see if the fault stays on the same side.

ah well :-/

thanks

well, ive been too busy lately to give any more time to this, so its about time i got sorted!

one thing i was thinking...... the favourite so far was the one advised ^^^, the [url= http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-18686-yamaha-crx-n470d-networked-cd-receiver-with-dabfm-radio-and-musiccast.aspx?varianthid=47186&gclid=Cj0KCQjw95vPBRDVARIsAKvPd3IAQ6xAqvFkzv5V4yxt_4IJG4ULQTq4Ip2kFzUVNf6wcKRFDWUXt9kaApf9EALw_wcB ]yamaha CRX-N470D[/url] at £260, as it seemed to tick all the streaming options in a modern stylee.

now when anyone asks what tv to go for, the advice is nearly always to forget the streaming stuff and just get the best picture. could that apply here with music too? so get a decent 'basic' amp but utilise the modern attachments such as chromecast audio?

jus' wundrin before i click 'buy' on somethings.

ta

ill try a bumpity bump for the audiophiles......

sadexpunk - Member

now when anyone asks what tv to go for, the advice is nearly always to forget the streaming stuff and just get the best picture. could that apply here with music too? so get a decent 'basic' amp but utilise the modern attachments such as chromecast audio?

I think the reasoning behind not worrying about the smart stuff with TVs is that it generally goes out of date on that particular TV in a couple of years and you end up with a load of obsolete apps. So, better to just get the TV you want & stick some kind of smart solution onto it; whether that be Amazon Fire/Chromecast/Now TV etc.

But, buying an 'streaming' amp isn't quite the same (I don't think, anyway). You are effectively buying an amp that is Wi-Fi enabled and can connect to a device, grab the music from it & play it.
I don't think there is anything to go obsolete as such. You rely on the NAS drive/laptop/tablet etc. to grab the music from so that is the thing that will need to be kept up to date.

Hopefully there'll be someone along soon with more experience of them than me, to back-up or rubbish my theory! 😆

i see what youre saying, but for 'amazon fire/chromecast/NowTV' you could read 'chromecast audio' for an amp couldnt you? i too dont know enough about these sort of things, but as the chromecast is on its v2 these days (i think), couldnt the chromecast audio (or any wifi receiver really) just get better and better with newer versions over the years and be cheaper to upgrade than the amp?

like i say, dont know the answer really. id like whatever i buy to have its own method of playing deezer say, so i could start playing a playlist and leave it/go out the room/to the shops etc and leave it playing for others in the house if my phone isnt within wifi reach. much like the tv chromecast, it opens the app, plays, and you can do what you like with your pc then until you stop casting.

hope thats not toooo confusing.....

apologies for the bump, but im just about to press 'buy' on that yamaha ^^^ for £260.

before i do, could i just check that im not making an expensive booboo? yes im sure its good value for what it does, but do i need it?

as dab and deezer will be our only music sources these days, i just need to make sure there isnt something cheapo-cheapo that i can plug my chromecast audio into thatll sound the same?

i understand i have to have an amp of some sort for my MS50 floor standing speakers to plug into, but i just need it confirming that the yamaha will give us the best bang for buck and i dont just need some small piece of kit for pennies that will sound exactly the same......

could you put my mind at rest please? 🙂

ta

Well you need a new amp so you won't get one for pennies even without all the extra facilities the Yamaha offers. If I was in your situation, that Yamaha would be the sort of thing I'd look at. A cheaper option would be a second hand amp but if you don't know exactly what you're looking for it can be a bit of a minefield. Buying something with the streamer built in like the Yamaha would mean you could get rid of the chromecast too and have a (hopefully) simple, all in one setup.

thanks, thats confirmed my thoughts, ill go ahead and buy it.

cheers

Oops, probably missed it.

The Yamaha is a good unit and you'll be happy I'm sure.

The only other one near the price is the below, but it doesn't have the features and built in stuff.

http://petertyson.co.uk/index.php/denon-d-m41dab-rcd-m41dab-hi-fi-system.html?gcpd&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_77u_YWC1wIVERQbCh2iygfhEAAYAiAAEgK4NfD_BwE

In relation to the TV analagy, I agree and only buy a TV based on its ability to display TV. The audio is handled elsewhere, as is the processing and handling of what ever streaming / source etc we choose to watch.

I'd likely be the same with amps, and get the best audio quality (and power needed) that I could for the money, with other boxes doing the streaming into it etc.

Having said that, if you are not chasing the nth degree in everything and conveneance is important, components with bits built in are not exacty bad.

Interested in how you get on with the Yamaha as I recent got a Marantz CR611 network cd-receiver... (for £300).

It's a bit a beast and I have problems trying to play stuff off the laptop as with 4g wifi I don't have a 'home network' to connect to/through... 😳

Think it would stream easy enough though.

Having said that, if you are not chasing the nth degree in everything and conveneance is important, components with bits built in are not exacty bad.

itll be interesting to compare the different methods.....
1. deezer through the music cast app built in to amp.
2. deezer through the chromecast audio which will be plugged into an input.
3. deexer through tv/chromecast where tv also goes through a different input

bit late if i find out i dont need the built in stuff tho, but if its a decent amp i spose theres nothing lost.

Interested in how you get on with the Yamaha as I recent got a Marantz CR611 network cd-receiver... (for £300).

well im back home this morning and have set it up for a play.

sound is good altho id like it to be a bit more 'bass-heavy' so could shake the walls if i wanted to 🙂 had a look at the settings and bass and treble were set to 0 so i set bass to 10 (max) and treble to 9, also selected some enhancer setting, made a bit of difference but not as much as id have liked. if i crank it up it does get really loud so im happy with that, altho most of its use will be background radio (6 music).

i spose not being bass heavy means that it feels like the sound is 'cleaner' than usual, not even sure what i mean by that, im no hi-fi buff but everythings quite clear and the volume knob has a lot of range to go from low to high. just be nice to have a simple setting to bounce the house around tho.

hows that for a 'hifi thickies' review! 😉

connectivity is good, i was a bit apprehensive about the musiccast app but its intuitive and most pleasing of all is that deezer is a quick click away on the mobile app, so its easy enough to use that rather than the deezer app on my phone.

itll be interesting to compare the different methods.....
1. deezer through the music cast app built in to amp.
2. deezer through the chromecast audio which will be plugged into an input.
3. deezer through tv/chromecast where tv also goes through a different input

1. good
2. cant tell the difference between that and the app so have disconnected the chromecast audio now as not reqd
3. again, no noticeable difference, but i use the chromecast anyway so will leave that in tv and go through phone/cc/tv/amp should i ever feel like looking at the record sleeves while the musics playing....

i have one issue at present and thats the bluetooth connectivity. should never need it if wifis running but thought id try it anyway for peace of mind and its shocking. stop-start, music speeds up and slows down, its unlistenable.
the units in a wooden hifi cabinet but the antennas sticking out the back, ive tried putting my phone up really close to the front, the back, inside the unit, doesnt make any difference, its sh1t. (another professional review 😆 )

only other thing to try there is take the amp out the cabinet and stick it on top and see if that makes any difference but as i dont really need bluetooth im not sure i can be bothered right now.
id appreciate any advice on that from any bluetooth experts?

thanks