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Sorry educator but I trust the integrity and ability of the professional US patent office to judge the worthiness of patent protection over some bloke on the interweb. It's a shame that small innovators like weagle can still get trampled only big corporations in this day and age IMHO.
It's not some bloke on the Internet, it's the European patents people that haven't deemed four-bar designs worthy of a patent (though the Renault NRS one applies in Europe I think). It's a form of protectionism that regularly gets challenged in various courts in various countries. German courts recently ruled against Samsung's computer thing that looks too much like Apple's according to the court.
The US patent system has different rules. You can patent an idea in the US, I think here it has to be an actual thing.
Amazon patented one-click ordering in the US, they couldn't do it here.
Edit: I didn't say you did, Molgrips, read again please
Well you kept telling me they could, which would stronly imply that you thought I was saying the opposite.
And I don't know if you realise that saying 'please read again' is implying that I'm being stupid, and is passive-aggressive.
But anyway, who cares? Let's talk about manufacturing.
You care, Molgrips.
"let us...let them"
I stated the Chinese were doing both very well in response. I could have read all sorts of things into your "us" and "them" division but didn't. I simply stated the Chinese are successfully doing both which doesn't imply anything at all.
"Please read again" is a polite way of saying "you're putting words in my mouth again, you're acusing me of saying things I have not, you're trying to make me out to be a villain by distorting what I have said".
I'd expect a more intelligent post from you Edukator.
Now what were you implying when you wrote that on page 4, Molgrips? I think most people would agree that you're saying my post was stupid. I think it's better to disagree and put up a solid counter argument than cast aspersions on the intelligence of one's "adversary".
Anyhow, that balance of payments graph is going to continue its downward trend for as long as much of what you buy has "made in China/Taiwan" on it.
So mutual misunderstanding then. I was retaliating to you as you were retaliating to me.
That graph you posted - what exactly is the significance? We pay out more money than we receive? But we also make money here, don't we.
Edukator, why are you prolonging the argument when mol was obviously trying to let it go?
Time to be nice.
It's not some bloke on the Internet, it's the European patents people that haven't deemed four-bar designs worthy of a patent
I doubt specialized are too bothered about that, the US market would be the better one to have.
I thought that the DW patent stood up in Europe though?
We still have 45 wage packets to pay this month - be it made in uk / italy / usa / taiwan / china .
We currently assemble around 4000 bikes in the UK - thats 4000 more than most bicycle companies - thats 5 full time cytec mechanics , well 4 and Mark Lovatt who is really a 1.5 .
We don't live in France .
We do create employment for British people - designers , accountants , mechanics , pick packers , returns , goods in , marketing , finance , HR , and a great long list that seems to get bigger (by the way we have a few jobs going if anyone is looking - returns / showroom / pick pack / goods in).
We do work again with Roberto Billato who in 1988 was my first ever frame supplier and one of the renowned Italian frame builders of the last generation who kept his Italian production until his business disappeared when both the US and Italian brands he produced for went "offshore". He then worked for Museeuw and left .
We produce the on-one slackest headset in the UK , we do assemble with Hope headsets / seat posts , we do assemble bikes with Middleburn cranks - all manufactured in the UK and we give these companies regular ongoing orders . We did design our stealth TT bars with Nick Hamilton at SERG .
We have sponsored and supported a number of British athletes both pro and amateur going back 20 years - Nick Craig , Spencer Smith 3 time world triathlon champ , Julie Dibens world xterra champ , Ryan Mullen junior champ , Ian Stannard now with sky , John Tanner twice british pro champion , Mark Lovatt 6 time winner of the tour of the peak , Wayne Randle commonwealth bronze medalist , Paul Curran legend of british cycling , Rob Harris national road champion , Kev Dawson 9 times BBAR , Cat Morrison world duathlon champion , Ray Eden points winner Ras , not to mention The trials kings Danny Holroyd etc .
You don't employ anyone who has a scooby about customer service.
Will someone PLEASE send the Onion a frame. Any frame. A picture frame. A subframe. Damn it I'll send him my Scandal frame myself!
But anything to stop him whining!!!! 😉
😀
Ah yes...customer service...daveplanetx, could I pop along to your stand at the london bike show with a returns item and save some postage by handing it over?
Is this seriously six pages of bitching about China?
Sorry, but I can't be assed to read it all 😀
Best not drop off a returns at a show , thats a very bad idea, best to follow our returns process
Sorry our customer service has not been good for you , we are trying hard in general . Sometimes stuff slips through . Brant has tried to pick it up for you , but if you want me to intervene ping me the details by pm please and I will do so as well .
I think its a little unfair to tarnish our company and entire customer service team with we "don't employ anyone with a scooby about customer service" - its maybe a touch on the harsh side .
hup
I'm going to say PX customer service were great for me. They were going to ship some stuff to my folks to bring to me in Luxembourg and for whatever reason didn't manage to get it out. The nice chap at customer service apologised and then had them shipped to me here instead for no extra charge. Very happy but then again I've never had any problems with PX/OnOne.
There is definately someone working there with a scooby about customer service as I've been treated very well whenever I returned stuff for refund or repair.
Certainly better than my local Fiat deaer anyway...
Is this seriously six pages of bitching about China?
No.
Compositepro:
Sorry I wasnt having a dig I am in agreement with you, that Post was more aimed at 18bikes / Brant / DaveplanetX if they wanted to explore an alternative higher volume solution here in the uk ?
They are a one stop shop, machining / laser profiling / Fabrication / powdercoating etc and for effectively a T45 tubeset might be something to consider ?
Compositepro:Sorry I wasnt having a dig I am in agreement with you, that Post was more aimed at 18bikes / Brant / DaveplanetX if they wanted to explore an alternative higher volume solution here in the uk ?
They are a one stop shop, machining / laser profiling / Fabrication / powdercoating etc and for effectively a T45 tubeset might be something to consider ?
Dom no worries from my part 🙂 its exactly what I would do if I wanted a route to manufacturing 1000 frames.I know from doing road car chassis thats the way to go ,In fact the great plus for doing it that way are the ways of getting away with no jigging which would be a great help for mass production and makes it sound even more tempting.
But alas its far easier to make a living repairing peoples broken carbon things at the moment and I'm not into running a buisness or a brand just engineering
Brant,
What colour are the 29er steel non swapout frames going to be?
cr500dom - would love to see. more info would be great. You're aware steel bicycle tubing is down to 0.8mm thick at the ends? That's a lot thinner than many other structures people are used to welding.
29er steel non swap out frames are shown here, I think - http://www.shedfire.com/2011/12/29/new-inbred-29/ - I can't see as my image server is blocked in China.
SPIRIT: .5/.38/.5
ZONA: .7/.5/.7
It would be quite something if this thread resulted in frames being built Britain.
keep your chinese workers happy?? Maybe blown out of all proportion
Compositepro:
Dom no worries from my part its exactly what I would do if I wanted a route to manufacturing 1000 frames.I know from doing road car chassis thats the way to go ,In fact the great plus for doing it that way are the ways of getting away with no jigging which would be a great help for mass production and makes it sound even more tempting.But alas its far easier to make a living repairing peoples broken carbon things at the moment and I'm not into running a buisness or a brand just engineering
You and me both fella, these people go one further than that, they Lasercut all their jigs and the jigs themselves are self jigging too (Slot and tab, tack together) very precice, minimal tooling cost, easily replaceable tooling too, if you damage a bit, release the tacks, lasercut new section, tack in place 😉
we have discussed doing a bike frame as a bit of an excercise on the side already (We use them for Racecar components at the moment)
Brant, I`ll put something together in an email and put you in touch, worth at least talking to them and seeing what they can offer ?
What kind of batch numbers would you be looking at as a starter ?
Cheers
Dom
Thanks Brant.
Will the slot dropout and horizontal dropout versions be the available in the same colours?
Pretty poor example considering they stole the DW link design. They do pretty much nick every design they are asked to build.
Which frame have they coppied? Maestro might be unoriginal, but the glory looks nothing like a IH Sunday.
What kind of batch numbers would you be looking at as a starter ?
A hundred would be ok. Four sizes. 15 per size minimum.
Will the slot dropout and horizontal dropout versions be the available in the same colours?
Slot Dropout = "sand"/milky tea
Singlespeed = white.
SPIRIT: .5/.38/.5
ZONA: .7/.5/.7
Not very ENGLISH that tubing though is it?
And yes, I guess you can get 853 down to 0.7 at the ends, but I wouldn't want to ride back from Ed's house on it.
keep your chinese workers happy?? Maybe blown out of all proportion
Well I wasn't there, but most of the factories today are nearly empty and tomorrow will be empty as people leave for Chinese New Year festival.
It's very quiet in lots of places, except the roads in the centres of town as lots of peoples is going home.
cr500dom, could you drop me the companies details as well as we are looking at getting some parts fabricated here and the firm sounds very interesting
Can't seem to access Twitter, so thought I'd post here.I think it's the firewall.
Looking at carbon, merino wool and LED light factories for a few days.
and by buying there cheap crap you're supporting that regium, **** off i wouldn't ride one of you're bikes if my life depended on it... GAS PIPE!!!!
'regium' - where the Romans stored people named Reginald?
My friend just quit yesterday at Deal extreme, she couldnt stand the conditions, being kept in a dorm and working stupid long hours, for less money than was promised, she is now going home to see her grandparents and will rethink working in the big factories as its really not a nice environment for her or anyone.
I know getting stuff cheap from china is very appealing, but that is nothing compared to the rackets being operated out of Vietnam, Cambodia etc.
CR500DOM - I'd be interested in the information you've sent Brant, if you'd be so kind as to email it to matt@18bikes.co.uk
thanks
Matt
brant you bikes are junk made by slaves...
I trust the integrity and ability of the professional US patent office to judge the worthiness of patent protection over some bloke on the interweb
AFAIK, US patents are pending until someone presents a legal challenge. The lawyers then slug it out to decide who holds the rights. Other than registration, the US patents office has very little to do with it.
BTW. This thread has made me think about where my next bike frame will be coming from.
brant you bikes are junk made by slaves.
LOL
and by buying there cheap crap you're supporting that regium, **** off i wouldn't ride one of you're bikes if my life depended on it... GAS PIPE!!!!
Put your ignorance back in your trousers, you're embarrassing yourself. I own two of Brant's frames. One is made from 853 tubing. I'd very much like to see the reception you'd get if you walked into Reynolds and accused the manufacturers of some of the finest steel tubing in the world of producing 'gas pipe'
The trouble with you, jumpupanddown, is you're just a silly little man who has found a soap box on the Internet to spout your irrational rantings. Your poor grammar and spelling show how poorly educated you are, and ignorant of what goes on in the wider world,
You really are becoming a laughing stock on here, people tolerate you purely for entertainment value.
There's a quote I read once that was aimed at Princess Blair, which I think applies equally to you:
The ethical dwarf, posturing on the moral high-ground, presents a ludicrous spectacle.
[i]brant you bikes are junk made by slaves...[/i]
Some say my 5 fits in the same category.
Yorkshire slaves though, possibly from Alifax.
Your poor grammar and spelling show how poorly educated you are,
yes deffo Mea culpa on that one - see what I did there 😛
I try and have a chinese free month a year to support the local economy, and its well difficult.
brant you bikes are junk made by slaves...
Oh. We have moved the discussion over to this thread have we?
*(peking)ducks ban-hammers*
BTW. This thread has made me think about where my next bike frame will be coming from.
Where dat buzz?