[Closed] have we done this? Muslim vigilante gang!!!!

billyblackheart - Member

The biggest cause of death in war is weaponry is it not?

It's a method, not a cause.

Disease and starvation certainly get a look in too, though.

Put a rifle on the floor never harm anyone, pick it up it has the potential to kill.
The majority of genocide / war has been in the name of who's religion is right. But I will concede many have been under pinned with greed

lastly STW is going downhill clearly, no appreciation for my bottle of 2011 El Bombero... does no-one here have laithwaites account?

#wonders if waitrose do a mtb site... considers the reality of it if they did... decides to stick with what he has.

The biggest cause of death in war is weaponry is it not?

I get what your saying, but I'm thinking of the cause for the conflict rather than the means of nastiness.

Wonder where the Gladius ranks, done a lot of stabby stabby work those things.

I was under the impression the self repeating rifle is the single most deadly invention known to mankind

Guns don't kill people, rappers do 🙂

Oh and I have no useful contribution to make.

One hour and three pages in. Not bad. Not bad at all.

argoose - Member

Put a rifle on the floor it'll never harm anyone, pick it up it has the potential to kill.

I seen it in a documentary on BBC2.

<edit- GOD DAMN IT mrblobby!>

does no-one here have laithwaites account?

I have an account with BBR.com, any good to you?

Oh, and [b][u]LEAVE MC HAMMER ALONE![/u][/b]

we are Cpt everyone knows you cant touch him

IGMC

Put a rifle on the floor it'll never harm anyone, pick it up it has the potential to kill

same goes for Ann Widdecombe.

BBR.com

oh hello! - thanks there goes my February payslip...

thx1138 - Member

Trouble is, some of those 'beliefs, laws and ideals' in the UK are founded in religious fundamentalism, such as the Sunday trading laws, which discriminate against those who aren't Christian. Then there's the issue of the Lords Spiritual; a group of mainly Protestant and Catholic unelected religious fundamentalists who have far too much influence and power in how this country is run. That's an affront to any notion of true democracy. We'll leave the 'Divine Right' of the monarchy to 'rule' over us out of this for the moment though.

Yes you're right.

But just because we still have some remaining historical religious influence doesn't mean we should accept any more in a misguided attempt to balance it out.

bbr.com

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh 8)

Ignorance is bliss, almost as blissful as residing in high up ivory towers by the sound of some responses.

And can we make our minds up please, I mean is Islam a race or a religion... 💡

Ignorance is bliss

Tel me about it, that bbr.com will ruin me

patriotpro - Member

Ignorance is bliss, almost as blissful as residing in high up ivory towers by the sound of some responses.

free delivery as well... god help me...

My pad, earlier yesterday
[img] [/img]

the solution is simple... ban twits

whatever their skin colour or belief.. it would solve the population crisis too

wonder if theres a north sarf divide with the muslims

This thread has raised some difficult issues and some facts, that to be honest, I did not know about. I have thought things through long and hard. Now I know most of STW will look down on me for saying this but... there is no way that I can afford an account with bbr.com.

This makes me feel sad.

I can't decide which made me laugh more. This:

I'm not racist but

Or the 4 exclamation marks in the thread title. Beautiful bit of internetting...

Oh - and I have no useful contribution to make

that bbr.com will ruin me

The GOC is very reasonable and does EXACTLY what it says on the bottle.

@timidwheeler - I am sad for you too

Here it doesn't feel like an integrated society; it's siloing, and you're starting to get separate little enclaves of Asian and Caucasian.

embrace your native culture!!! You need a drunken fight outside a kebab house at 2 in the morning

I've seen the 'Joe's Campaign For Real Gravy' signs in and around Malaga as well. And as for 'our christian country' you can can count me out.Thugs are thugs.

there is no way that I can afford an account with bbr.com.

Neither in all honestly, can I, but that does make a good chilean merlot taste all the finer IMO. Everyone deserves a treat.

FWIW, I stumped up the capital for about 30 bottles 7 or so years ago, then Buy them from the system on a bottle by bottle basis, rounding up the cost to the nearest 50p, to protect against inflation, you get what would be a £10 bottle in a supermarket, for about 6/7 pounds, and the system pays for it self. This can be good with mixed from laithwaites, and bin ends, doesn't look like BBR do those.

I actually presently run 2 systems, one for supermarket bargains at about 4 pounds a bottle [bought en bulk when i see good special offers], and one for really good wines at 6 to 7 which come from laithwaites. Just don't go for a wine plan, they are so hard to cancel... [psychologically]. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Oh, and just to avoid going too far OT, errrr... reject the hate and embrace the love. also, go to your local asian veg shop, they are ace and sell such lovely things. The people that run them are helpful and often happy to share the secret of how to cook the things you've never seen before.

you get what would be a £10 bottle in a supermarket,

[img] [/img]

Win!

Sorry, what was this thread about?

I Know or have come into contact with many People who are of a Muslim Following and have yet to find one that is unpleasant of any kind of "preacher".

The only negative side of the Religion I am aware of is what is reported in the news and I am not sure how widespread it is, given that the press love to ham things up for their own ends along with anything else that happens in the world.

On the fence here but, for sure, the few that appear on the telly seriously need to remind themselfs how much mess it would make if we did the same preaching on their own turf!!

If I go to a foreign country, I happily either respect their customs and predominant relgions while I am there ....... or dont go at all! ......

Sorry, what was this thread about?

It was about hugs I think.

[img] [/img]

Is the bar still open?

All Richards are Dicks.

We have someone called Richard Head at work.

Not met him yet, but seen the sign on his door. I do hope he has a good sense of humour

[img] [/img]

Electrical screwdrivers by the monitor.

Sign of the IT nerd

Oh how do I join???

[has joined - everyone loves disco!]

@ Rusty - i think you're bright enough to understand what i mean.

Do we take issue with Christianity when we see chavs misbehaving?

Angry Muslim youths are just angry youths mis-quoting Islam for their own interests.

Oh, when you start a sentence with I'm not racist but..... YOU'RE A RACIST OP!

patriotpro - Member

@ Rusty - i think you're bright enough to understand what i mean.

No mate, you're going to have to spell it out.
At least have the courage of your convictions.

Do we take issue with Christianity when we see chavs misbehaving?

Well, I very much doubt that they are chugging Bacardi Breezers in the name of the Baby Jesus, so I suspect that argument may be rather pointless.

Do we take issue with Christianity when we see chavs misbehaving?

Angry Muslim youths are just angry youths mis-quoting Islam for their own interests.

this times a gazillion.. this country is a nation of bigoted xenophobes

Maybe you Azeris and Ingush should make more of an effort to integrate with the Asians, then.

Sure. I wasn't saying it was solely the fault of either demographic, just observing that that's how it seems to be panning out.

I don't see any animosity (above and beyond the occasional group of teenage Asian lads aggressively posturing about the place, and that's less to do with 'Asian' and more to do with 'teenage lads' I reckon), but I don't really see much inclination from either demographic to change that either.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Well, I very much doubt that they are chugging Bacardi Breezers in the name of the Baby Jesus, so I suspect that argument may be rather pointless.

But there's lots of ignorant white men who'd really, really like to kick the shit out someone 'To keep our country British' or to 'Uphold our values'.

Easy to turn a blind eye to issues when one has no experience of certain aspects of society. This is true of many people and a few on this forum and indeed on this thread but especially on this subject. Just look at some of the first world problem threads as evidence that some know very little about anything outside their life bubble so form their opinions based upon their utopian bullshit. Catch my drift?

No, you're talking bobbins without actually making any sort of point.

I ****ing hate racism.. it's the laziest, stupidest way to take out your insecurities and frustrations (after beating your wife and kids)

If you're under achieving then better yourself.. don't turn your self loathing outwards at the most convenient and socially acceptable target..
Thing is with young men of any colour or creed, your role models are often the lads who're a couple of years older than you, and they've invariably got a fair bit of growing up to do..

I know a few Muslims who abhor xenophobia and a lack of tolerance. Funnily enough, a few of these guys were out in the community (note I said "the" not "their") the other August to help deter rioters.

Bloody Muslims, with their tolerant attitudes, coming over here and protecting our communities...

On and top find with the English Disco Lovers page!

self repeating rifle

Self loading rifle....amateur.

Anyhow, Islam on the whole is the enemy of western liberalism. We can say that it's offensive to tarnish all Muslims with the same brush when it comes to things like attitudes towards women etc. But when you look at the middle east, they are pretty much still living in the 16th century. Personally I find how they treat women really ****ing offensive and at the back of my mind when I'm talking to a beardy type, I know how he'd treat women who are my friends if he ever got the chance.

There are lots of atheists on here who make a point about attacking religion and Christianity who are doing their best to be PC about this whole issue - however at the end of the day, ideologically these people are not our friends.

What's more the presence of more religious nut jobs in the country is giving ammo to the far right - so on one hand we are having to put up with an increase of belief in a hugely repressive religion and on the other hand we're having to deal with more right wing zealots.

It's not going to be fun for those of us who have more left wing ideals... getting caught in the political crossfire and resultant instability if this issue ever reaches boiling point.

Do you think the brits in spain have integrated well into spanish culture or are they still moaning they cannot cook chips and wondering where to get the sun, baked beans and marmite?

You can cook chips in Spain, the sun's free, and the local supermarket stocks baked beans and marmite.

No vegemite, thank god. This is a decent catholic christian country, after all.

OP, hwta law were these vigilantes enforcing?

Anyhow, Islam on the whole is the enemy of western liberalism. We can say that it's offensive to tarnish all Muslims with the same brush when it comes to things like attitudes towards women etc. But when you look at the middle east, they are pretty much still living in the 16th century.

You're describing Wahhabi Saudi Arabia, which is very archaic in it's views yet is a bastion of Western imperialism in the Middle East. We go nuts over their oil over here and go out of our way to supply them with similar state of the art weaponry as we do Israel.

But that's not all Muslims...in the same way as not all Christians believe the actions of the Crusaders were righteous. As I've alluded to before, not all Muslims are the same. Seriously, try to get to know a few before you make sweeping statements.

OP, hwta law were these vigilantes enforcing?

No law, but theyre enforcing their own views that have been manipulated to fit the situation around them, they obvioulsy feel strongly about certain groups in society, as most of do at some time in life about certain types of people.

I beleieve you can dislike cetain people as persons,and those you avoid interaction with, but you shouldnt also let it take over your life as a hatred, and offer physical violence or the threat against them .

Live and let live ,we can all learn from each other, we all have many interchangeable skills and needs.

Ok, so not really vigilantes then.

Yes we can all learn from each other and this is to be celebrated. Why don't you start by sharing with us what you have learned form the many muslims living near you?

Okay...here's what I've learned.

They're a lot like us. They like similar things to you and I, they don't like the same sort of things that you and I don't like. Most often, they laugh at the same things we do too...

Is that enough for you?

It's not going to be fun for those of us who have more left wing ideals... getting caught in the political crossfire and resultant instability if this issue ever reaches boiling point.

what's that..?
1000 misanthropic neanderthals from each side throwing bottles at each other across a busy high street again, whilst their friends and family cringe with embarrassment..?

I'll do my shopping online that day

You're describing Wahhabi Saudi Arabia, which is very archaic in it's views yet is a bastion of Western imperialism in the Middle East. We go nuts over their oil over here and go out of our way to supply them with similar state of the art weaponry as we do Israel.

But that's not all Muslims...in the same way as not all Christians believe the actions of the Crusaders were righteous. As I've alluded to before, not all Muslims are the same. Seriously, try to get to know a few before you make sweeping statements.

- ****stan: Misogynistic

- Iran: Misogynistic

- Iraq: Misogynistic

- Lebanon: Misogynistic

- Egypt: Misogynistic

- Chechnya; Misogynistic

- Jordan: Misogynistic

- Kuwait: Misogynistic

- Oman: Misogynistic

- Saudi Arabia: Misogynistic

- Malaysia: Misogynistic

etc ad nauseum

TBH though I pretty much loathe any country that isn't a liberal democracy.

patriotpro - Member

Easy to turn a blind eye to issues when one has no experience of certain aspects of society. This is true of many people and a few on this forum and indeed on this thread but especially on this subject. Just look at some of the first world problem threads as evidence that some know very little about anything outside their life bubble so form their opinions based upon their utopian bullshit. Catch my drift?

Jesus man, have the courage of your convictions.
If you believe something say it.

From the 'Which shop would you choose?' thread I've a pretty good idea of your ideology.

bwaarp - but all those places have family structures that are matriarchal don't they... really?

If we're really honest about it

@ bwaarp

You're describing popular stereotypes. Not everyone in those nations are Muslim - ever heard of the Coptic Church for example? Do misogynistic people really have to all be Muslims? There are a few misogynists in the good old Anglican Church too you know.

People in Indonesia might justifiably call us Britons "Warmongers" for example...

bwaarp - but all those places have family structures that are matriarchal don't they... really?

If we're really honest about it

Matriarchal in the way that pre-female emancipation was matriarchal.

If you think women have any real power in those countries you are having a laugh.

You're describing popular stereotypes. Not everyone in those nations are Muslim - ever heard of the Coptic Church for example? Do misogynistic people really have to all be Muslims? There are a few misogynists in the good old Anglican Church too you know.

I'm talking about at an institutional level, which culture and religion influences. I'm not talking about individuals.

Ireland: Doesn't like abortion therefore Misogynistic
Italy: See above
Russia: A half century of communism didn't shatter those glass ceilings, therefore misogynists all.
The Vatican: Don't get me started.
Switzerland: Women couldn't vote until 1972...

Ireland: Doesn't like abortion therefore Misogynistic
Italy: See above
Russia: A half century of communism didn't shatter those glass ceilings, therefore misogynists all.
The Vatican: Don't get me started.
Switzerland: Women couldn't vote until 1972...

On a far lower scale but yes they are

and that's why I don't really care for any of those countries you listed as well.

Italy is a failed corrupt state, Russia is run by gangsters, the Vatican ****s kids and Switzerland...well..they're more or less reformed now.

I'm talking about at an institutional level, which culture and religion influences. I'm not talking about individuals.

No you aren't, you named specific countries where Islam may or may not predominate without any caveats. You great big hairy racist.

Bwaarp..

If you think women have any real power in those countries you are having a laugh.

that may be so and I don't think that was my point really..
but no women had real power in this country only a few decades ago either.. our society was as misogynistic as any other, if not more so, perhaps a little more politely perhaps.. perhaps not

you are scaremongering using badly thought out stereotypes that suit your prejudices.. drunk on propaganda and too much TV news I reckon

No you aren't, you named specific countries where Islam may or may not predominate without any caveats. You great big hairy racist.

No, you are to blind to see that religion is a threat liberalism.

There's no old school liberals left who are actually willing to defend our political values. This depresses me.

Islam on the whole is the enemy of western liberalism

have the courage of your convictions.

We may be ahead but not by that much. we win the argument on personal freedom by being tolerant and beating the arguments not by literally beating the arguers.
and everything yunki says

THIS
Re misogynism lets not forget women were killing themselves for the vote only 100 years ago here.
Equal pay act only here 50 years [ and still a disparity]
Homosexuality was a crime 45 years ago

We may be ahead but not by that much. we win the argument on personal freedom by being tolerant and beating the arguments not by literally beating the arguers.
and everything yunki says

Yes, but all of this was set in motion by the enlightenment thinkers many many many years ago. You need an ingrained culture to enact slow change, this stuff doesn't happen over night.

Yes we can all learn from each other and this is to be celebrated. Why don't you start by sharing with us what you have learned form the many muslims living near you?

I have no Muslims living near me, but i do work in their homes and buisnesses in another town i work in,

Theyre freindly and welcoming,

Offer free food and a drink,to workmen,

Like to barter down prices,

Their children are very polite and freindly,even the teenagers,

some dont understrand humour,

the females are very sexy looking,

the man is in charge of finances, the lady is in charge of the cooking,the lady isnt allowed to flirt with a man, if her husband is nearby,

they all have huge tv,s and flashy cars along with high walls and railings,

they dont seem to have a chip on their shoulder about other people getting more than them.

No, you are to blind to see that religion is a threat liberalism.

You may have a point there...I certainly don't subscribe to any religion. But I've met some great people who happen to have faith and to simply rant at them that they're completely wrong would smack of bad manners. I've also met some atheists who are idiots too.

A great deal of the issues you've pointed out are cultural, not religious...and unless you've ignored the news of the last thirty years, you'd understand why some in the Middle East might resent us a teeny bit, especially when you look at the unemployment stats in Saudi for example.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/najib-lgbts-liberalism-pluralism-are-enemies-of-islam

I've met some great people who happen to have faith and to simply rant at them that they're completely wrong would smack of bad manners.

I don't care for good manners.

I do agree with your latter point to an extent though.

There's no old school liberals left who are actually willing to defend our political values. This depresses me.

Eh? Please enlighten me. My political views are very strong, my values don't necessarily depend on a WASP to validate them.

Would you like me to swap newspaper headlines with you? I know a few links to the Daily Mail.

They may not represent the actual views of the majority of Britons though.

Would you like me to swap newspaper headlines with you? I know a few links to the Daily Mail.

They may not represent the actual views of the majority of Britons though.

The Daily Mail line is akin to Godwins law.

I don't think we should be pretending to like cultures or political elements that are in direct confrontation with our own - we should not be tricking ourselves that these elements are benign and to be safely ignored. That is all. I don't care about the color of someones skin etc these obfuscate the real issues, all I care about is liberalism and where it's headed over the next century.

What I see are political and social enemies to liberalism be they abroad or within our own country. Ranging from anti-terrorism legislation, the rise of the right and it's social causes etc to religious and cultural opposition abroad. None, I repeat...NONE of these should be ignored. If we do it's at the peril of everything the west has achieved (whilst we've done a lot of bad stuff, it's a hell of a lot better than the alternatives).

So by the looks of it.. If I was a sexist, homophobe, all I'd have to do is convert to Islam and I'd have the apparent blessing of Junk, Yunk, pjm etc??

(and yeah,, I started a sentence with 'so')

If I was a sexist, homophobe, all I'd have to do is convert to Islam and I'd have the apparent blessing of Junk, Yunk, pjm etc??

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. My point was that not every muslim I've met is sexist/racist/homophobic.

What are you trying to achieve by reversing the argument?

Anybody else getting ads for Islamic marriage on this page?
http://islamicmarriage.com/?affiliateID=ADa_Im_en_gg_C-UK_Nikah
http://www.muslima.com/?ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=English+UK+Content+Image+Ads+Muslim+Centers&ovcrn=image+ad&ovtac=PPC&V3&gclid=CJSZq6nZk7UCFe7MtAodnWAAqg

I don't think we should be pretending to like cultures or political elements that are in direct confrontation with out own. That is all.

What are you trying to achieve by reversing the argument?

I'm not reversing anything.. I too support liberty and freedom.. I see Islam as I direct threat to that and I see you and your type nieve beyond belief.

You know that is EXACTLY what they think as well... you are just like them.
I dont agree their is direct confrontation tbh.

Except my ideology doesn't really make that so does it? This isn't facism vs communism where the two extremes are not polar opposites but a horseshoe. These are vastly different ideologies.... Maybe the west could somehow talk them out of their grievances with us, somehow I doubt this would be possible though even if we did stop bombing them for half a century.

I see what you're saying bwaarp.. and I'm gonna take it on board..

Can you recommend me any good old fashioned literature that I should get hold of on Liberalism..?
I see liberalism as the sensible choice because I don't want to ostracise someone that I could potentially learn from, or co-operate with, and I am quite able to celebrate difference (unless you're a fool elzorillo, fools make me grumpy).. but I've never thought about liberalism as a political value that I would have to defend..

But if you're right and the tide is changing, maybe I should arm myself with some knowledge from which to defend my liberal point of view

(EDIT: I would like to apologise at this point for taking another poster's views on board, hopefully this won't cause the STW servers to implode in a fractal destabilisation)

Wow this thread made it to 5 pages, mods must out somewhere