[Closed] Have any Snowboarders here learned to Telemark?

I snowboarded for years, season, instructor, all that stuff, then met my now wife, who was a novice / intermediate skier.

As we were kind of mis-matched in what we liked doing when we went to the mountains in winter, i started hiring skis 'for a laugh' so i could learn something new and we could both enjoy doing gentler stuff.

Picked up the basics of getting around very quickly, but in fairness it quickly becomes apparent that it takes a while to actually become competent and feel comfortable in the way you are probably used to on a snowboard. Love my skis now, but there have been (many) frustrations on the way.

There are lots of techniques to pick up which takes time, skiing powder will still take a little while to get once you are competent on skis on piste, a transition i never found hard to make on a snowboard. On the plus side, your confidence, ability to read the snow and conditions etc should translate well.

As for telemarking, never tried it but most seem to consider it a reasonably tricky form of skiing to master if you come from a good skiing background. Do you mean full-on telemarking, or using ski bindings which heel lift only on the climbs and lock down for descents? The latter would be much easier to adapt to IMHO. This was a big draw to skiing for me too, as (at first appearance) this is the one big advantage skiing has over snowboarding - easier access to places.

Most of the snow domes such as at the Trafford Centre do Telemark training sessions but they are not too frequent. Give them a ring or google your local club. They are often combined with the XC lot.

Point to note. Hiring the kit can be tricky, but the clubs typically have second hand kit for sale.

I quite fancy a go at telemarking. It does look to be the singlespeeding of skiing to me though.

If you start learning to ski or telemark, you'll be shackeled to the the resort for a while longer.

Why not get a splitboard and go touring with your mates straight away?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

😉

torso, agreed. Beards definitely de rigeur.

If you start learning to ski or telemark, you'll be shackeled to the the resort for a while longer.

True, but I'm thinking of doing this as something to do if im in a resort and the weather is rubbish.. Touring would be a different trip, possibly in Scotland.

Beards definitely de rigeur

I could give that a go.. might take me a while though - Intermediate snowboarder, novice beard grower.

Dave

OwenP - Member

...As for telemarking, never tried it but most seem to consider it a reasonably tricky form of skiing to master if you come from a good skiing background. Do you mean full-on telemarking, or using ski bindings which heel lift only on the climbs and lock down for descents?

what he said, there's telemarking, where your heels are always free to lift, and ski-touring, where you disengage your heel bindings so you can skoot uphill, and lock them down so you can descend 'normally'...

telemarking = uber hard.

ski-touring = only quite hard.

telemarking seems for people who find ski-touring just a bit too easy. it does look very cool when you see it done well though 🙂

I'm not a snowboarder but transferred to Telemark about 6 years ago from an experienced skier background, seeking the new challenge.
As mentioned above, it is a bit like riding a steel-framed hardtail, run singlespeed. It is harder than is absolutely essential, but equally telemarking is very rewarding. In most Alpine resorts you'll find a ski shop that carries a more 'Mountain' oriented range of kit and there's a fair chance that this shop will rent tele gear. Lessons help and skiing experience also helps but lots of either is not vital.
Up here in the not-particularly-frozen-north-this-week, Braemar Mountain Sports and Mountain Spirit in Aviemore both have tele gear, as does Ancrum Outdoor Centre in Dundee.
Two main things though- skiing teles at any kind of speed is way more physical than regular alpine skiing and the extra technical demand of reduced control and balance also make life tough. But if you're up for a challenge, do it. Telemarkers use the snow much more like a snowboarder than like a regular skier does, carving much wider arcs across the hill; it's a very rewarding way to be on snow.
It leads easily into backcountry touring, as all you need are skins and safety kit, all tele gear ban be toured on. There's quite a community of touring telemarkers to be found up on the Cairngorm plateau, among the reindeer...
Don't confuse telemarking with xc skiing or Nordic touring, these are gentler sports, conducted in the forests and on lower mountains, populated by strange bearded types who wear sandles and lycra.

Tribes, eh..?

I was thinking of going the whole hog, and free heeling it up and down.

Of course, at the first hint of powder, I would ditch the torture contraptions and get my board out 🙂

Dave

Of course, at the first hint of powder, I would ditch the torture contraptions and get my [s]board[/s] [b]beard[/b] out.

I started tele'ing when my feet became too knackered for proper ski and snowboard boots. Few things in this world better than Telemarking through deep powder... especially in leather boots and old skool skinny planks. You don't surf on the top; you sink into the snow... so when you assume the stance the snow peels off your forward shin and hits you straight in the [s]face[/s] beard. Face-shot-freshies on every turn

Worst thing about Telemarking is that it's addictive... you may as well sell your other gear now if your going to try it.

Been telemarking 10 years now. It's a very rewarding way of cutting around the hill, but coming from snowboarding bi-passing alpine is going to create a few problems.

1. The technique is vastly different, so it's pretty much starting from scratch again. Finding your centre of balance, muscles you never use on a board etc.

2. As already stated, it can be tricky to find stuff for hire in some resorts and I've checked the ski schools for instructors. They can seem thin on the ground.

3. The equipment is expensive.

Saying all that though, it's absolutely brilliant when you have it nailed. I ski in the telemark club at hemel when I can. Most indoor slopes have a telemark club that will meet up once a month. Very friendly with a couple of spare bits of kit for u to try. Most of these clubs have a Facebook page so you'll be able to get most of your answers there.

Alternatively, if you like your knees in good condition, there's always alpine touring bindings. 😉

Split board or snow shoes?

few mentions of split boards...

what the deal with touring on them? everyting I have read about them is about using them to skin up stuff; can you use them for longer flat stuff, and for undulating ups and downs without going back to 'board mode'?

Still tempted by telemark, for the challenge 🙂 although maybe I should do a week on downhill skis first to get up to the parallel turns stage at least.

Dave

Another skier to telemark but then back to alpine. Been skiing for 17 years and relatively good at it, also enjoy ski touring. Started tele as my girlfriend at the time was only a beginner skier and it made it fun for both of us. First thing is that tele is physically exhausting, far more so than normal skiing. I would say i was relatively fit when i started being a late twenties regular biker and climber. A few days back to back in resort destroyed my thighs. It is however one of the best feelings in the world ever when you get low down on one knee in a nice wide carve/turn. I have now gone back to alpine as, for my two weeks skiing per season, my legs couldn't cope with a whole week of tele and karting both sets of gear was too much aggravation.

Second thing is that if you intend to use it for touring then tele in powder is probably not the easiest thing to master. When i had a go on a board i found the changing snow conditions relatively easy. With skis it is harder, although less so nowadays. Get a nice tricky crust layer and skis want to go separate ways which if you're a relative beginner to skiing will be tricky. Try that on one knee as a relative beginner and you'll be in all sorts of trouble.

If you like charging through crud/powder/piste it is a LOT easier on normal alpine gear. I never got to that level on tele but i've skied alpine with some very accomplished tele skiers and they had to work a lot harder.

Alpine ski tech has changed massively since you had a go. Maybe worth trying that as the new gear is a lot more fun than the old narrow long skis.

Lastly, these days there is very little in it for efficiency when touring with alpine compared to tele. Gone are the days of heavy boots and bindings.

If you're still keen have a look at telemarktips forum. Absolute gold mine for info and some top top skiers on there.

Worth learning to parallel ski even if you do go the tele route imo. On a lot of the newer tele bindings you can parallel turn if you sit back a bit in your stance and use the spring resistance. Its a good get out of jail card for a tricky situation, difficult snow conditions or tired legs!

Reminds me of the age old joke: How man skiers does it take to do a Telemark turn?

10 - one to make the turn and nine to stand around going 'Great turn'...

Yeah but it does look cool if you can do it well....

Thinking about giving it a go this year.
Never skied for 15 years after discovering snowboards in the early nineties, but recently got back into it a bit. Now have a few pairs, inc some dynafit equipped touring skis plus skins.

But I've never attempted a freeheel Telemark turn - eek !

Anyhoo, might just grow the beard and join in !

I snowboarded for several years, and was lucky enough to do a winter season in Chamonix. This opened my eyes to the fact that although snowboards can be fantastic off-piste, they are far from ideal for accessing off-piste.

Upon my return to Scotland, it was clear to me that I would struggle to recreate the experiences of boarding in Chamonix, and that I needed s New challenge if I was to remain interested in snowsports.

I decided to start telemarketing. I bought a full modern plastic boot set-up from Braemar Mountain Sports with literally NO experience. As I drove home I didn't know which foot led through the turn.

I read Paul Harper's book avidly and practiced lying on my back. This sounds ridiculous, but Parker writes about how it should feel when you get it right, and this is what I looked for when on the snow.

6 weekends, starting on the Glencoe rope tow got me to the level of easily participating in the advanced intermediate class at the Braemar Telemark Festival.

It has just been progression from there. I would consider myself to be a good Telemarker, and there is a growing scene in Scotland. The movement is natural, and aesthetically pleasing. On modern gear any decent skier could ski on Tele gear, paralleling if necessary.

I do not think it is that hard, and Tele opens up the hills for touring and off-piste like nothing else.

Do it.

Buy a split board? Best of both worlds.
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[img] https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_wjEV4ePXqRaJ40HVF_1dIAqfJSNMlr1zWlO2wbFfzBGdpYRJ6J3-o94Qw_FvPsCVdkTpmCSoIM4p78TzSEM6u5Uiotk4aqxMDhJPexjOJlaMEECXY [/img]

few mentions of split boards...

what the deal with touring on them? everyting I have read about them is about using them to skin up stuff; can you use them for longer flat stuff, and for undulating ups and downs without going back to 'board mode'?

Splitboard technology has come on leaps and bounds in the past few years, so there's much less of a drop in performance when comparing a splitboard to a normal board.

Anywhere a 'ski tourer' can go a 'splitboarder' can go. They are absolutely fine on long flat stuff, undulating terrain and the odd down! (although I did have a ski lesson last season so I could improve my snowplough & turning technique a bit).

Alfabus
If you get the right kit and some good lessons then you'll be fine
Fitness wise it's harsh, the chicken leg will visit even the fittest skier

Equipment wise NTN ( semi step in ) is the way ahead

Mountainman might say nay but he's just old school
( waves to Sean - it's Dave b 😉 )

X'scape at MK has a good tele scene indoors
But up in Scotland it's all on the hill

Mike Gale @ g2 is the man to hook up with
If you wanna learn new school style properly in the uk

Do it !!!

The Glenmore Lodge staff on their days off used to Telemark down Grade 1 gullies in the 'Gorms making a point of showboating to their collegues taking punters up on winter skills courses! 🙂

My mate who has skied, boarded and telemarked to pretty high standard thinks that telemarking is technically no harder than skiing but physically a bit harder.

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread regarding Telemarking vs Alpine Touring kit. You cannot do a proper tele-turn on Alpine Touring gear - the 'free-heel' mode is for uphill only. The Dynafit stuff is seriously light and impressively tough though.

I personally find the movement very similar to snowboarding. Think about the tuck of the rear leg and the dip of the knee and the lift of the heel, especially on a toe-side turn.

I have moved on to NTN gear and it is great for speed and control, but the Freeride bindings are a bit heavy for touring. The Freedom binding is lighter, but unproved in terms of toughness - the Freeride binding has not been without fault either, but newer stuff should be OK.

Modern fat skis can float better than a board and are more versatile, especially in a touring environment. When I boarded I was once involved in full-burial avalanche incident. The guys on skis had a much faster response time in deep soft snow, able to move about and probe/dig with skis on (bear in mind this was on a downhill section). On a board I was useless as I couldn't move around as well, and by the time I'd binned the board and put my snowshoes on the lucky fella was found and dug out. If we'd all been on boards it would not have been so good.

However much fun boards are, skis are the tools you need for travelling in the mountains.

I learnt (in the local golf course) how to board in 91. Got bored of Cairngorm with lifts etc and I used to walk onto the plateau,Fiacaill ridge etc more often than buying a pass nearer the end. I haven't been up much over the past 5 year but just finished building a splitboard last week.

It's free heel climbing on voile skins so not exactly telemarking but a step in the direction that'll give me an idea of what it's like. Not that I'll turn to telemarking.. like someone said above, two wrong's don't make a right.. only in splitboard territory, it might just do ;O)

Can't wait for another dump to try it all out.

Edit: To answer the original question, No.. but the owner of Bothy Bikes in Aviemore is the only person I know that has snowboarded and also tele'd. Can't think of anyone else.

Spin
If it was all about efficiency we'd all be on dyna fits 😉

Tele is just a great feeling, kinda blends the best of boarding and ski
Sometimes I miss the board ( big powder days )

Troutwrestler - agree re NTN , pisses me off no harchiesen ( ski crampons ) are available
And while I'm at it my scarpa tx comps don't even have a walk lever
But I'm spoiled by the control & power

The Glenmore Lodge staff on their days off used to Telemark down Grade 1 gullies in the 'Gorms making a point of showboating to their collegues taking punters up on winter skills courses!

I've boarded down Alladins Couloir with a telemarker. I took the safer option and said 'after you' or something along those lines with head movements/facial expressions!

Don't confuse telemarking with xc skiing or Nordic touring, these are gentler sports,

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

I took up Telemarking in addition to Boarding in 2007 and would give the following wisdom:

1.Steep Learning Curve
2.Carve is remarkably similar to boarding carve. Boarders on teles should find the rythmic weight transfer to link the tele-turns is almost identical to carving edge to edge on a board.
3. If you only tele occasionally it will hurt more than a singlespeed.
4. I still tele but am either not good enough/not fit enough/or the bare truth is once I'd ascended I always craved my board for the powder descent 😯 so bought some MTN Approach Skis instead of a splitboard. Not cheap but bonus is I get to take whatever board suits the conditions.

Anywhere a 'ski tourer' can go a 'splitboarder' can go. They are absolutely fine on long flat stuff,

But a lot slower than tele kit, let alone proper Nordic touring kit - there being a whole range of stuff in between depending on where you want to compromise between downhill and flat performance. I certainly can't think of anywhere I'd choose to use a split board rather than some form of free-heel kit.

I am a snowboarder who learned to tele. Though I should clarify that I was an advanced to expert skier before I ever boarded, and had done quite a bit of XC before I took up telemarking. Went from having a go at boarding on a week's downhill skiing, doing half and half boarding / alpine skiing, full weeks boarding with a bit of tele to half and half boarding / tele. If I went to a downhill resort again I'd just do tele (as it is, the odd hours I've had on downhill slopes have been all tele). I suppose it depends on your perspective - with my background I didn't find it all that hard to pick up. I reckon coming from boarding it's a lot easier doing tele off-piste than it is using alpine kit.

We should all stop fannying about and get [url= http://www.telemarktips.com/Teleboard.html ]Teleboards![/url]

...but then I am a unicyclist, so may not have the most sane and sensible opinion on such things.

Unicycle AND Tele?

Only one thing for it
[img] [/img]

😉

Blindfold Unicycle Tele?

loving the vid. Switch tele FTW. slight hijack but what's the deal with releasable kit? Last time I seriously looked at getting into it it was just coming out. I've already had one ACL reconstruction and don't fancy another.

aracer - Member
Anywhere a 'ski tourer' can go a 'splitboarder' can go. They are absolutely fine on long flat stuff,
But a lot slower than tele kit, let alone proper Nordic touring kit... I certainly can't think of anywhere I'd choose to use a split board rather than some form of free-heel kit.

Maybe they're not the ideal choice if you want to go rando racing, but in the real world (i.e. touring with your mates) the biggest difference in speed between a skiier and a splitboarder is going to be in fitness and technique, not in equipment. A splitboarder with decent kit and a dialled changeover system is not going to be holding up skiiers. If he is, he can just get fitter and faster, so he's not last to start his transition.

And there's a great deal of variation in snowboard kit too, plenty using hard boots and dynafit bindings. Add carbon layup boards and you can have a considerably lighter set-up than and average touring ski set up.

There have been a couple of mountain guides to qualify in North America on splitboards, and a few people doing very arduous and ambitious undertakings on splitboards, so there are plenty who are pretty happy that they're a decent system.

I think the difference is more or less noticable on terrain and skill. On steep continuous stuff there is almost no difference. Where split boards struggle is if it is rolling. E.g last week the descent I did had one short 50m climb in the middle. The skiers just about got up with out skins through a combination of speed and thrashing, the split boarder didn't; as soon as he stopped he had to make a mode change. In powder with flat sections they need to accept they go at the back to use the skier track, and they need the skill to hit the track and stay in it.

But in deep powder they can set a great up track as they are often wider than skies so it is like a highway behind. 😀

Supersaiyan,

For releasable bindings check out 7tm bindings. I've been using them for 5 years as I didn't want to risk my ACL again. They're not as good as NTN for control and power but I get along with them no problem. Also plenty of attachments available for them such as crampons and ski touring hinge plate.

yup, that's fair sweaman. Nothing to diasgree with in there!

Last tour I did was in waist deep snow. Shouldn't have been a tour at all, really, ridge walk from the lift and downhill all the way from there. We happened to have touring kit because this was a second ioption after we scked off our first. Couldn't have done it without!

Downhill skinning needed on the sections which are usually nice mellow taverses with the odd turn. 2 splitboarders and one skiier, he kept his skis on and thrashed, we took a bit more time and transitioned back and forth. We overtook him while he was thrashing, put in a packed track for him to follow (slower, still no skins) then he caught us up while we were transitioning back. Worked quite nicely!

Looking ahead and keeping poles out for flat sections helps a lot. One of the aforementioned splitboard guides doesn't use collapsible poles, but lighter rigid poles that are always in his hands.

DAB,
To quote a very experienced telemarking mutual acquantance, on seeing an NTN setup for the first time:
'That's not Telemarking' 😛

Like most snowsports in Scotland, any telemarking is all about extracting maximum enjoyment from the available snow. Uphill, Teles are a bit lighter and a bit better than Alpine touring kit- that's proper teles, by the way, not those supercharged NTN monstrosities that give you as much downhill control as an Alpine binding would. Look at the Tele world cup- everyone is on NTN, no-one uses cable (traditional) tele bindings any more.
It's all good, so get out there and try it.
Whichever 'it' floats your boat.

It's buying a whole new set up that puts me off NTN. Would like to give it a try to see the difference though.

+1 for splitboarding. Only disadvantage is the cost involved, but if you are a crafty DIY type then look out for the Voile "Split kit".

Take one old snowboard and a circular saw, et voila! All in all I reckon it cost me sub £200 (inc buying a behemoth of a 179cm board from ebay!).

Have since toured around Chamonix several times, Glacier d'Armancette, Domes de Miage etc and can wholeheartedly recommend splitboards.

Stupid question here but is telemarketing essentially lunging on skis?

If so, I can do about 100 lunges before I am stuffed. How the hell do you do a whole day of it?

There is a rhythm to it, like pumping a bike. It's not quite as brutal as it looks. It is a lovely combination of fore-aft, side to side and up and down transitions. Plenty to think about and always something to work on.

I didn't like 7tms. I found them to be too neutral and I always thought I was going to faceplant. My wife used them but didn't realise they released. She wiped out in great powder on Envers du Plan in the Vallee Blanche. You should have seen the look on her face. She thought she had ripped the binding off the ski in the middle of nowhere...

The very day I had a conversation on a t-bar about the cost of switching to NTN, and how I thought the cost was prohibitive, I bought the bindings and boots in a sale at Mountain Spirit. Hypocrite.

The only other tellie bindings I used were old NATO touring ones. They had better control but as I said, I've already grubbed my ACL in the past and I'm using everything I can to not do it again.

I'll keep an eye out for NTN in the summer sales. Ski Bartlett have s massive stock.

Hmm... 7tm. I'm another one who didn't get on with these DIN releasing tele bindings, and in the two seasons that I persevered for, they never released once. Now sold on and replaced with Hammerheads on the holiday skis and Rottefella Cobras on the rock bashers. Both give a lot more control; there just isn't enough metal in the 7tm for me.
So says the guy who who doesn't like NTN coz it gives too much control. Oops..

Anyway, I need to go skiing. Feeling the lack of touring conditions here in Scotland. Guess I'll just have to go biking instead.

I would agree with the 7tm comments. (I don't have any issues with their performance though.)

I have a them and they have never released in the 5 odd years I have used them. Although I don't fall often. And if you do it is different from Alpine skiing as you tend to fall on your arse, mostly you can just push with your hand to get back up. Or straight over the front face plant which is more interesting.

Part of the reason I took up teli was a knackered knee. (Former Racer.)
The best thing for me is there is no or limited pressure or jarring on your knees as there is nothing to resist against. Your legs act like shock absorbers all the time. The light boots and light skis are great. Much better too as on steeper slopes you really need to move your feet quickly to do tight turns.

It is a bit like doing a load of lunges but as you don't really stay in the same position as your legs change position constantly.
It is considerably more energetic and tiring than alpine skiing.
But if you are too knackered just stand up. I have no difficulty at all doing regular stand up skiing in Teli gear.

Some tips for teli skiing. Keep switching your stance. Don't think of single turns, it is a rhythm of switch switch switch. Wide or tight turns same applies. The least stable position is when you are standing like an alpine skier. Quiet upper body, (shoulders) facing the fall line all the time, exactly the same as alpine. Although you may well wave your arms about for balance if going fast. And there is quite a lot of twist in your shoulders on steeper slopes.

Get low, I often see people switching from Alpine skiing with the good new Teli gear. They don't bend enough or forward enough.

Get rid of your poles, you don't need them. (Or hold them in the middle.) Improves balance and less to worry about. In my opinion pole planting is not really very important in teli skiing.

Save energy. Easy wide turns on the less demanding areas. Shuffle, stay low and slide your feed for turns rather than so much up and down.

Teli is a bit different from alpine skiing as you can do both carved or drift turns. Like someone else said more like snow boarding in feel.
You can control your speed on steeper stuff by deliberately sliding in the turns.

Impressed with the video of teli going backwards. Will need to give that a go.

My DIN are set quite low so I've had no problem with them releasing. My only problem was with the retainer strap snapping when they did release. Spent an hour digging my ski out of a small ravine in austria.

You can get brakes for 7tms. I HATE leashes.

Skiing switch on tele is not easy. It isn't just a case of the same position but backwards. It is the opposite position AND backwards. The most I've ever managed is 4 or 5 linked turns then BAMMM...

Fingers crossed for a 'snow event' in the mountains.

I dint get on with 7tm since they weren't active enough
Cobras were nice but then Hammerheads were pretty much a revelation when they arrived and I had a good few seasons before going NTN and only released 3 or 4 times in big spills

Ianahhhhhh - some good points about the dis association of lower / upper body but new kit means the old low stretched out style isn't necessary, it's just another trick in the bag

Mix up the frequency, radius and style of turns and there's a huuuuuuge pot of fun to be unleashed, normal p skiing locked in seems so one dimensional

Biggest issue I see is folk looking at their ski tips - look up / forward as you'll "feel" when it's right
Watching the skis just messes with your head & you can do that when you get home and watch your go pro footage lol

It's been a lean season so far in Scotland but things are looking up 🙂

Good to see a few tele heads around tho

djtom - Member
+1 for splitboarding. Only disadvantage is the cost involved, but if you are a crafty DIY type then look out for the Voile "Split kit".

Take one old snowboard and a circular saw, et voila! All in all I reckon it cost me sub £200 (inc buying a behemoth of a 179cm board from ebay!).

Have since toured around Chamonix several times, Glacier d'Armancette, Domes de Miage etc and can wholeheartedly recommend splitboards.

Just finally flushed off the epoxy and pretty much ready to try out my DIY K2 zeppelin. As much as I'd like to hit Cairngorm summit on it's first outing I'm a bit wary of making a **** of myself! Did you manage a good tight gap between each ski? I have found a little bit of movement here and there but I reckon with both bindings slipped into the pucks it'll do the job fairly well.

edit: My Voile kit was £240 with skins and I decided not to use a Salomon 159 with a tweaked edge and splashed out on a 2nd hand board in great condition. Its also pretty stiff before the cut too!