Forum menu
MT - I would agree with that sentiment for those who were actually in peril. Like Heath, Ashdown and Benn ( amongst others) I have little time for those who did TA and parade around in uniforms they are not entitled to wear - thats you Ruth Davidson
CFH - those like Davidson - parading around in a uniform she had no right to be wearing.
Riiiiight.
Over the last few years TA and reservists have ended up in some very interesting places.
Churchill is the only one I can think off who has gone from politics to the front. Post war (WW2) most of the PMs had actual combat experience up to the 60s.
I'm no fan of his, but in his youth he was in the thick of hand to hand fighting with swords against the ISIS of his day.
He did a bit of spying in the SA Boer War.
As Colonial Secy he also toured part of Uganda on a bicycle.
As a spoilt rich boy, he stands head and shoulders above our current crop of toff politicians.
Wee Nicola would've been involved in a few battles of Dreghorn cross.
I have little time for those who did TA and parade around in uniforms they are not entitled to wear – thats you Ruth Davidson
Did she serve or not?
I'll answer that for you, she did between 2003 and 2006 and got a medical discharge. Just in case you think TA is pretend army:
In 2003, 9,500 reservists, the vast majority of them from the Reserve, were mobilised to take part in Operation TELIC, the invasion of Iraq; in contrast, only some 420 Regular Reservists were called-up. Approximately 1,200 members of the Army Reserve deployed annually on tours of duty in Iraq, Operation HERRICK in Afghanistan and elsewhere, normally on six month-long roulements. They cannot be used in operations for more than twelve months in any three-year period - making most of those who have already served ineligible for call up for two years afterwards, although reservists may choose to volunteer for additional deployments.
So she joined knowing full well she could be called up for front line duty so I'd say she earned that uniform.
I'll politely request you STFU about things you are clearly ignorant of, wilfully or otherwise. If you want to play at cheap digs how about we ask what makes you the arbiter of who deserves to wear a uniform or not? How much time have you served?
Errmmm - it was an honorary Officers uniform she wore ( that she is entitled to wear) but she wore it for political photoshoots (which she also did with her ordinary TA uniform) something which is against army regs.
So she is entitled to wear the unifom but not to use if for political photoshoots - OK. so she was NOT entitled to wear that uniform when she did ie using it for political purposes
I respect her for joining the TA, I have no time for her using the uniform for party political photoshoots in complete breach of army regs.
Its distasteful and a stain on the memory those who have been in real peril.
I suggest you stop making baseless assertions about subjects you know little about
Oh - and the arbiter of whether she could wear that uniform for political photoshoots? Army regs. and what did she do to deserve an honorary officers uniform?
You sure it wasn't Kim jung un?....
Much as I hate this source even a stopped clock is right twice a day:
https://theferret.scot/ruth-davidson-army-rules-military-uniform/
Riiiiiight.
I suggest you stop making baseless assertions about subjects you know little about
Edit -Great minds, etc.
de Gaulle and Eisenhower are big names, do they count?
Bill Pullman as President Thomas J Whitmore in Independence Day?
Idi Amin
Gadaffi
Mubarak
Stroessner
Pinochet
Tito
George Bush Senior
Mobutu
Yitzhak Rabin
Saddam Hussein
Benjamin Netanyahu
I think they all should have at least one tour of duty on the front line before they even attempt to become an mp.
Nonsense. You need potential Mps to come into politics from different walks of life, with different experiences, just look at the total f*ck up the current government are making with the Brexit debacle\international embarrassment, and they are increasingly being churned out from a narrow educational and "work" background.
As a spoilt rich boy, he stands head and shoulders above our current crop of toff politicians.
Gordon Brown stands head and shoulders above the current crop as well, its not really much to shout about.
Dennis Healey was at Monte Casino, it shaped his approach to his fellow man after the war.
Lord Admiral Alan West was last to abandon HMS Ardent in the Falklands. Nice chap when he accidentally visited our govt dept.
Somewhat unfair to have a go at the TA etc by picking on the odd exception. Members join knowing what the score is. I guess being STW its only to be expected that political prejudice comes before sticking to the thread.
Doubt you'll find many politicians who go to war as generally government is an old mans job by the time you have worked your way through the ranks where as the military is the other way round. I would bet that Churchill wasn't the only MP who went to the front in the 1st war.
John McCain would be a fair bet for being up there with the most suffering in times of war...
Didn't know that one, Sandwich. Thanks.
Enoch Powell
John McCain, JFK, John Kelly, Helmut Kohl, Dwight D Eisenhower, George Bush snr, Winston Churchill, spring to mind.
Paul Nuttall was another notable, he won a VC and received a promotion to Field Marshall.
Iain Duncan Smith’s gatherwas a decorated Spitfire pilot. I’ve mixed feelings about this as ideally he’d have had his reproductive organs shot away before helping to conceive IDS.
I would bet that Churchill wasn’t the only MP who went to the front in the 1st war.
You'd be betting right. One third of sitting MPs during WW1 served in WW1. ie they fought in WW1 while they were MPs. That's 1/3 of all MPs at the time, not just 1/3 of MPs eligible to serve. (Link with more detail posted earlier in the thread.)
It undoubtedly gave [Rory Stewart] just the sort of outlook anyone in Politics would benefit from.
And yet he's still a dick.
Wasn't the Duke of Wellington both a politician and a serving general?
Didn't Paul Nuttall claim to be Andy McNabb?
Maybe a pre WW1 politician ended up on the front line. Doubtful though.
Maybe? Doubtful? I don't think you quite appreciate the level of carnage that WW1 involved.
"In total, 264 MPs or former MPs served in World War One, with 23 of these making the ultimate sacrifice.
In addition, 323 members of the Lords served, with 24 being killed (one of whom was also an MP - meaning some list 24 MPs as having died)."
from Linky
Adolf Hitler was in the trenches in WWI, ended up running his country, and other peoples for a bit.
Adolf Hitler was in the trenches in WWI, ended up running his country, and other peoples for a bit.
Mornington Crescent (see my earlier post)
I didn't recognize him from that photo Nico.
Veering back to the OP, may I just bring you one of the finest examples of a politician (very briefly) to serve in the Armed Forces, Fitzroy Maclean. Frustrated at not being able to join up because he was a diplomat, he sought and won election to parliament, only to resign straight away to enlist (the Wiki link is a little unclear on the sequence). This caused Churchill to accuse him of abusing the mother of all parliaments.
He was one of the founder members of the SOE, and ended up serving as Churchill's envoy to Tito in Yugoslavia. His biography, Eastern Approaches is an extraordinary read, and there's still time to get in on your Christmas list.
Oh, and he is thought to be one of the models for James Bond...
I didn’t recognize him from that photo Nico.
That was before Hitler's moustache was a Hitler moustache!
Fitzroy Maclean book is outstanding
It's not all swashbuckling tales of derring-do, which are a major snooze in my opinion
Fitzroy Maclean book is outstanding
Thirded.
At the risk of a tangent, but linked to Rory Stewart's experiences, this is an outstanding read as well,
Plenty did before going into politics. Much rarer the other way round mainly due to the ages involved, though I guess in both world wars it must have happened.
If you want the full SP CFH his Desert Island Discs programme is worth a listen.
Will look for that, Sandwich.
It's odd, but we appear to have lost the line to Scotchlandshire... 😉
That aimed at me CFH? Remember I am trying to avoid pointless arguments
If you think its OK for Davidson to swan around in uniform and to use that uniform for party political purposes thats up to you. I know its morally wrong and against army regs. Note that piece you both quoted says she was entitled to wear the honorary colonels uniform - what it omitted was she must not under army regs use it for political purposes - which she has done many times not just that occasion. Thats why she is known as Ruth tank copmmander for he willingness to use her 3 years in the TA to promote herself shamelessly
What did she do to deserve that honorary colonels uniform? Tell me thats not political in itself?
And remember - I have time for Davidson generally - a very able politician and one generally truthful
And yet, here you are...
She didn't break 'army regs' and you even managed to contradict yourself after saying
a uniform she had no right to be wearing.
when you said she did have the right to wear it.
Thanks for playing.
Has there been a war since 1945 that actually posed a threat to this country ?
Seeing as most wars are initiated by politicians maybe it's only right that they ought to be the first ones in, lead from the front so to speak. Or maybe war mongering politicians prepared to send their own offspring into battle.
Errrr....the Cold War!!! Or did we forget that we spent the best part of 50 years after ww2 facing the threat of total annihilation?
Errrr….the Cold War!!! Or did we forget that we spent the best part of 50 years after ww2 facing the threat of total annihilation?
Errrrrr....think WE need to brush up on the meaning of Cold war.