[Closed] Happy Birthday Ma'am

teamhurtmore - Member

I can read NW

...and you can read into it what you choose, as ever. But really there's only a post or two in this entire thread that come close to what you suggest. Lots of people unhappy with the monarchy, lots of people not understanding why you've decided to put someone above you due to an accident of birth, but nobody finding it [i]hard to bear.[/i]

I think it's a bit sad tbh, but people are weird.

People object to insensitivity on other threads about the recently departed

Do you think, and I am sure it will happen but not from me, that when she dies folk who are mean/disrespectful/daft to her wont get some form of forum reaction? It generally accepted that one is not mean about the dead on a thread about their death. Even I have that level of politeness, if not your mates.

And lots of them too - must be hard to bear.

I have no idea why you have been accused of trolling on here ...you ?

This entire thread was just for you to troll I have no idea, seeing as how you dislike your probity being questioned, why you are typing things like that and your opening sentence and denying it.

Being anti-Monarchy is a massive massive vote loser. Alex Salmond is very astute politically and he is very pro the Royal Family. I saw Corbyn made sure (as per hiding his real views on the EU) that he was nothing but complimentary yesterday in Parliament, his non singing of the National Anthem taught him a lesson. Even Ken Livingstone sang the Anthem last night on This Week, second verse as well.

Who's voting?

So politicians lie about their real feelings to win votes....who knew they were secretly populists 😉

Republicanism is a minority view and is disliked by some and seen as traitorous by the more deferential/traditionalist/royalists.

I have certainly had some interesting exchanges when I refuse to stand for it.

some people [s]like mad conspiracy theories
[/s]

Some people just do their research...

[url= http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_14-18.pdf ]Expanding a bit further[/url]:

As a top Wall Street lawyer with Sullivan & Cromwell, [b]Allen Dulles[/b] helped leading U.S. fascist millionaires invest in Germany (through Brown Brothers Harriman) during the 1920s and 1930s. As the chief U.S. spy in Germany in WWII, Dulles recruited top Nazis into the CIA's post-war crusade against communism*. As lawyer for Rockefeller's Standard Oil, [b]the Nazi weapons giant I.G. Farben[/b] and Thyssen's Dutch bank, Dulles helped build Hitler's war machine. With much dirty laundry, Dulles became CIA director and helped Prescott Bush in a cloaking scheme to cover up the Union Bank's role in laundering Nazi Loot

Bear in mind the guy who wrote that piece, [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar ]John Loftus, has a high degree of credibility[/url]:

As a U.S. Army officer, John Loftus helped train Israelis for a covert operation in the 1973 Yom Kippur War. He resigned his position as a Justice Department prosecutor in 1981 to expose the U.S. recruitment of Nazi war criminals. He is president of the Florida Holocaust Museum.

“The Loftus Report” is his nightly spot on ABC National Radio and “Inside Scoop with John Loftus” airs weekly on Fox TV. As a private attorney, he has helped hundreds of whistle-blowing intel-
ligence agents to declassify and publish hidden secrets.

Especially relevant now:

[b]In August 2002, Loftus and a team of more than 40 lawyers, filed a $1 trillion lawsuit against the Saudi royal family for victims of the September 11 attacks.[/b]

It's fair to say [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/books/review/the-brothers-by-stephen-kinzer.html?_r=0 ]Allen Dulles and his Brother John Foster Dulles are responsible for more deaths than Hitler[/url]:

Kinzer highlights [b]John Foster Dulles’s central role in channeling funds from the United States to Nazi Germany in the 1930s[/b]. Indeed, his friendship with Hjalmar Schacht, the Reichsbank president and Hitler’s minister of economics, was crucial to the rebuilding of the German economy. Sullivan & Cromwell floated bonds for Krupp A. G., the arms manufacturer, and [b]also worked for I. G. Farben, the chemicals conglomerate that later manufactured Zyklon B, the gas used to murder millions of Jews.[/b]

Not only did they set in motion the mechanisms of WW2, but afterward:

[b]By 1953, with Allen Dulles running the C.I.A. and his brother in charge of the State Department, the interventionists’ dreams could come to fruition. Kinzer lists what he calls the “six monsters” that the Dulles brothers believed had to be brought down: Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran, Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala, Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam, Sukarno in Indonesia, Patrice Lumumba in the Congo and Fidel Castro in Cuba.[/b]

But I'm straying a touch... how does all this tie in to the Monarchy?

Well, [url= http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2500347.ece/Queens_father_a_creature_of_his_own_myths ]back to Prince Bernhard for now[/url]...

Van der Zijl, however, found [b]a membership card signed by the prince himself on which he reported being a member of the Nazi paramilitary group SA since April 27, 1933. The SA-membership was preceded by an obligatory six month novice membership, which means Bernhard must have applied for membership as early as 1932, a year before the Nazis rose to power[/b], Van der Zijl argues.

Fresh from being a member of SS intelligence, what was his 1st job in 1934?

P[b]rince Bernhard of the Netherlands joined the SS during the early 1930s. He then joined the board of an I.G. subsidiary, Farben Bilder[/b], from which he took the name of his postwar supersecret policy making group, the Bilderbergers. [b]Farben executives played an important role in organizing the Circle of Friends for Heinrich Himmler, although it was initially known as Keppler's Circle of Friends, Keppler being the chairman of an I.G. subsidiary[/b]. His nephew, Fritz J. Kranefuss, was the personal assistant to Heinrich Himmler. Of the forty members of the Circle of Friends, which provided ample funds for Himmler, eight were executives of I.G. Farben or of its subsidiaries.

[b]The dreaded Gestapo, the Nazi police force, was actually built from the worldwide intelligence network which I.G. Farben had maintained since its inception[/b]. Herman Schmitz, who had succeeded Carl Bosch as head of I.G., has been personal advisor to chancellor Brüning; when Hitler took over, Schmitz then became his most trusted secret counselor. [b]So well concealed was the association that the press had orders never to photograph them together[/b] . Schmitz was named an honourary member of the Reichstag, while his assistant, Carl Krauch, became Göring's principal advisor in carrying out the Nazis' Four Year Plan. A business associate, Richard Krebs, later testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, [b]The I.G. Farbenindustrie, I know from personal experience, was already, in 1934, completely in the hands of the Gestapo.'[/b]

This was the international drug and chemical cartel, I.G. Farben. Called a state within a state,'' it was created in 1925 as Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbenindustrie Aktien gesellschaft, usually known as I.G. Farben, which simply meant The Cartel''. It had originated in 1904, when the six major chemical companies in Germany began negotiations to form the ultimate cartel, merging Badische Anilin, Bayer, Agfa, Hoechst, Weiler-ter-Meer, and Greisheim-Electron. The guiding spirit, as well as the financing, came from the Rothschilds, who were represented by their German banker, Max Warburg, of M.M. Warburg Company, Hamburg. He later headed the German Secret Service during World War I and was personal financial adviser to the Kaiser. When the Kaiser was overthrown, after losing the war, Max Warburg was not exiled with him to Holland, instead he became the financial adviser to the new government.

[b]It was hardly coincidental that the postwar government of Germany, Allied Military Government, should set up its offices in the magnificent I.G. Farben building. This government was headed by General Lucius Clay, who later became a partner of Lehman Brothers bankers in New York.[/b] [b]The Political Division was headed by Robert Murphy, who would preside at the Nüremberg Trials, where he was successful in glossing over the implication of I.G. Farben officials and Baron Kurt von Schröder. [/b]Schröder was held a short time in a detention camp and then set free to return to his banking business. The Economic Division was headed by Lewis Douglas, son of the founder of Memorial Cancer center in New York, president of Mutual Life and director of General Motors. Douglas was slated to become U.S. High Commissioner for Germany, but he agreed to step aside in favor of his brother-in-law, John J. McCloy. By an interesting circumstance, Douglas, McCloy and Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of Germany had all married sisters, the daughters of John Zinsser, a partner of J.P. Morgan Company.

Closing for now, don't forget this bit:

[b]I. G. Farben, the chemicals conglomerate that later manufactured Zyklon B, the gas used to murder millions of Jews.[/b]

[img] [/img]

teamhurtmore - Member

People object to insensitivity on other threads about the recently departed and yet show similar lack of taste and sensitivity on here

Not the Queen too? 2016's been a bad year!

Not yet NW, not yet. Too many people extolling her to "long reign over us" 😉

Impressed that Ken knew the second verse. I only learned that in the cubs when we promised:

I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and to the Queen
To help other people
And to keep the Cub Scout Law.

Imagine people promising that lot today!! 😉

It generally accepted that one is not mean about the dead on a thread about their death.

Rubbish.

If you don't want to hear people discussing public figures (alive or dead), don't discuss public figures on a public message board.

Dont venture onto the Prince thread then KB 😉