every day is too much - you are suppossed to push weight to the point of failure, which clues the body into growing some more muscle to cope, and it needs some time to do that.

Do you stretch too? I used to do tons of weights. Turned into a bit of a competition with myself to keep lifting more and more. I didn't stretch enough.

I was never particularly flexible, but I am now the most inflexible person that I know. I did yoga for a while and I couldn't get into some of the starting positions, let alone the actual stretches....

Ditto - I was told do no moe than 30-40 minutes weights with at least a day rest in between (from weights). Also don't mix endurance with weights on the same day since the benefit from the weights is undone by the endurance. Weights are very intense for very short durations, and sometimes the intensity doesn't show up as tiredness but the stimulus was there and the body will get stronger if you leave it to recover.

You've got to mix it up as well.

You will stop feeling pain after a workout if you keep doing the same routine and muscle excercises time after time after time. Your body just gets too used to it. Change up your routine every 6 weeks or so. There are lots of different ways to work out the same muscle/muscle group. You'll certainly feel it after a change of routine.

okey dokey thanks all

I train most days but I split my training up. One day I do back and biceps, the next day chest and triceps and shoulders and legs on a different day. Then your muscle groups have plenty rest inbetween.

To get bigger you need to take in more calories and push fewer but heavier weights.

The pain you are referring to is called Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, DOMS, in the trade. Google it.

Are you sure you're going to failure on each rep? And I mean failure.

Also, you should be mixing up your routine as previously mentioned. Also, you must stretch, I know the benefit doesn't seem immediate but when you have a nagging pain that just won't go away you will understand. I predict it will be your shoulder. Most folks train chest and don't stretch it, eventually tight chest muscles pull the shoulder forward and hey presto, nagging shoulder pain.

Theoretically you shouldn't be training every day. 2 or 3 on and 1 off seems to be the universally accepted standard. Your body grows when it's resting. You also need food to grow and repair, so diet is key. In order of improtance: diet, rest, exercise. I can't stress enough the importance of good diet, really is the key to being bigger and stronger.

Also don't mix endurance with weights on the same day since the benefit from the weights is [s]undone[/s] [i]reduced[/i] by the endurance

what neallman said as well.

[img] [/img]

😉

Maybe you need to push heavier weights, low reps at near maximum or pyramids.

Loving that top left headline on the mag there!!

I was under the impression it was shorter sets, heavier weight for strength and longer sets with a lighter weight for bulk. Is this wrong?

First off, Yes - everyday is too much. 3-4 times a week is genrally optimal.
Unless you are "hormonally assisted" you will not recover in time for you next workout.

I too love the weights, the key to adaptation is to keep your muscles guessing by changing reps, exercises and intensity.
Have a google about "periodisation" and you'll see what I mean.
Good article here: [url= http://community.myprotein.com/content/benefits-periodisation-147/ ]Periodisation[/url]
I'm currently using a linear periodisation plan as it's simple and works for me. No doubt I could use a more complicated plan that works better but to be honest my life is complicated enough.

Also, training for size and strength are quite different, as the stimulae and hence adaptation is different. You mention what weight you are lifting but then mention you want to be bigger.
Another article here: [url= http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hale6.htm ]Size vs Strength[/url] Are you training to be Bodybuilder big or Heavyweight Powerlifter big? They are very different.

You say your diet is good, are you counting calories and grams of protein, are you drinking alcohol? You need to be taking in more calories than your burn through exercise and your basal metabolic rate. You need to be taking in 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. So if you are 100kg, you need 220g of protein. For me that's hard to do without using a Whey protein supplement, you may have access to chicken breasts, cottage cheese and tuna 24 hours a day.

You can do cardio on the same day as weights but I wouldn't reccomend hours of slow Cardio. Try doing some HIIT (again Google is your friend) 2-3 times a week.

Training to failure - people say "training to failure" alot, tends to be misused alot. There are actually 3 failure points, 1) Can't lift the weight, 2) Can't hold the weight up 3) can't lower the weight in a controlled fashion.
Most people only train to Point 1, you need to be going to point 3 to acheive true "failure". 2 easy-ish warm up sets followed by a really hard set to True Failure works well for most.
Again Google "Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty"

4 Top tips:
1) Plan - plan the next 3 months of training and set goals
2) Keep a Training/Food Diary - write everything down.
3) Do not overtrain.
4) Sleep loads

Everyday is not enough sphincter boy!

Pansies like you make me sick... MTFU and get down there twice a day concentrating on one muscle per workout. If you're not too wet make it three times a day and chuck in some cardio classes and swimming so that you get really ripped.

What were you 'pushing 120kg' on?

I have to say that's impressive 120kilos is what I usually leg press. You must be built like a corrugated steel shithouse.

No such thing as over-training. You can under-rest and under-eat though 😉 , so it depends on your priorities.

Have a look at [url= http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/antibodybuilding_hypertrophy_program ]Chad Waterbury's Anti-Bodybuilding Hypertrophy Program[/url].

"No such thing as over-training." Actually there is... if a body part is not given sufficient time to repair.
Even assuming 10 hours of sleep and perfect nutrition you still need TIME to recover.

The OP might prefer to ask on a Bodybuilding/Weight Training forum as Mountain Bikers aren't generally known for big scuplted physiques...

"No such thing as over-training." Actually there is... if a body part is not given sufficient time to repair.
Even assuming 10 hours of sleep and perfect nutrition you still need TIME to recover.

There is a balance of rest/training/nutrition. You could be overtrained because you're getting pissed and sleeping 5 hours a night. The term overtraining would suggest you should train less, but what you should do is sleep more and stop getting pissed.

So... I don't like the term overtraining.

The OP might prefer to ask on a Bodybuilding/Weight Training forum as Mountain Bikers aren't generally known for big scuplted physiques...

Yes. The good ones look like a bag of elbows.
[url= http://www.muscletalk.co.uk ]Muscletalk is pretty laid back.[/url]

What BillOddie says is good advice.

One of the most important aspects of a training regime is recovery time...if you aren't accounting for this then you won't meet your goals of getting bigger.

You should rest muscle groups for roughly 48 hours, this doesn't mean you can't train for 2 days, just train different muscle groups in different sessions. But it's not as simple as that really, successful body builders would spend a lot of time doing research and paying for advice, and would have developed an incredibly complicated workout and recovery plan.

Put simply. it's not just a case of going to the gym and picking heavy stuff up for an hour or so...you need to plan your workouts with your goals in mind and track your progress.

Oh, and do some cardio...it'll help with your muscle building goals. It's doesn't have to be a lot, just 5 - 10 mins on the exercise bike before you hit the weights.

slight thread hijack.....

Is it possible to make decent gains in size whilst still riding my bike 3-4 times a week?

Is it as simple as making sure i'm getting enough calories (including protein) onboard?

Forget all this lame talk about resting.

You need supplements. Chat to the biggest guy in th weight room he'll know someone that can hook you up. Failing that look for the guy that wears bib shorts to the spinning classes... he'll be a serious roadie and will know what you need too.

Get some inspirational tattoos...

"Go BIG or go home"
"Pain is weakness leaving the body"
"You can rest when you're dead"

etc.

Is it possible to make decent gains in size whilst still riding my bike 3-4 times a week?

im pushing 120kg on bench press on rail machine... or 100kg normal bench type.

im doing sets of 5-6.. 7 being the optimum fail. (about to poo if i push/pull anymore 😉 )

im not big but i want to become bigger.

see i think my diet then is the fail tbh.

i try to watch my weight alot because i gain weight very quick around my belly. Even healthy veg seem to stick it seems lol

so i will try and get a 1lb for every kilo and see how that goes 😉

cheers all

Guy i know swears by this

http://stronglifts.com/

I'm not big but i want to become bigger.

Why?

Nick - if this isn't a troll, and you want to pack on size you need to reduce the weight you're lifting and work out in the range of 8-12 reps.

My personal view is that working out to get big is nothing but vanity.
Cycle your workout in 6 week stints between...
Low reps and heavy weights for ultimate strength - what you're doing now.
&
High reps (>15), low weights for endurance.

I was just going to ask exactly what Kingtut has asked. Why would anyone want to get "big"?

I was just going to ask exactly what Kingtut has asked. Why would anyone want to get "big"?

I was asking this as I went down the same route when I was younger (I'm presuming you are quite young) and wanted to get 'big' took all kinds of shit including Stanizol.

My advice, enjoy weight training for strength and definition and loose the desire to get big.

Why?

2 get da chickz?

Chickz dig athletes not muscle bound freakoids.

Jamie - Member

Why?

2 get da chickz?

The funny thing is most women don't like 'built' men, my GF at the time though it all very strange.

It seems the only people that admire bodybuilders are other bodybuilders.

im pushing 120kg on bench press on rail machine... or 100kg normal bench type.

You really need to get yourself over to [url= http://www.muscletalk.co.uk ]MuscleTalk[/url] and do some research/ask some questions. When asking for advice (or just reading it) make sure that it's for it's clear that it's for 'natural' lifting. There will be an assumption you use drugs otherwise (and in much of the existing advice there).

You won't get simple advice. You could talk for hours on the subject. Well I could and often do. 🙂

The funny thing is most women don't like 'built' men, my GF at the time though it all very strange.

It seems the only people that admire bodybuilders are other bodybuilders.

Does seem to be the case.

It seems the only people that admire bodybuilders are other bodybuilders.

Does seem to be the case.

I dunno, a certain type of girl likes built blokes but you probably wouldn't want to take them home to meet mum...

I like to do something every day, so do

Sat: Chest
Sun: Triceps
Mon: Biceps/Forearms (plus 80 minutes cycling commute)
Tue: Core (plus 80 minutes cycling commute)
Wed: Shoulders (plus 80 minutes cycling commute & 90 minutes kickboxing)
Thur: Back (plus 90 minutes kickboxing)
Fri: Core (plus 80 minutes cycling commute)

I have been assuming that as I am mixing up the body parts, each group is getting sufficient rest. Is this right?

(not training legs specifically as they get a good stretch/workout with kickboxing)

I have been assuming that as I am mixing up the body parts, each group is getting sufficient rest. Is this right?

Having a day dedicated to biceps and a day dedicated to triceps is odd though. Just chuck biceps on the end of your back workout and triceps after chest. You can then do legs/abs/whatever on your 'free' days if you want the daily routine (I run a five day routine that could be done in three for the same reason).

sc-xc, you are probably overtraining your triceps as they will get hit on chest and shoulder day too.

Same goes for Biceps being trained on Back day.

Do a leg day...

Having a day dedicated to biceps and a day dedicated to triceps is odd though. Just chuck biceps on the end of your back workout and triceps after chest.

Or t'other way round to be able to go big guns on your guns.

Or t'other way round to be able to go big guns on your guns.

Focusing on arm training usually has the opposite effect. Gyms are full of skinny blokes who spend an hour doing bicep curls every time they come in.

You'd be better off stopping training arms and focus on the core lifts.

na its not for girls. i personally like the feeling of really pushing my self. as i come out the gym looking forward to that pain the next day lol...

i ride dh for this and i have the same outlook on the gym too.

i want to get big, not huge but some said it 100%, other bodybuilder respect other body builders.

i like to be bigger, i lost alot after i came off my bike and hurt my shoulder and trying to get back to that point if not a little more.

i dont want to get huge but bigger.

i weigh only 95 kilo and im 6ft5.

toning muscle doesnt appeal to me as i find this looks over keen, especially on a beach with your abs haning out and posing. im not a poser!!! 😉

5th - it's tongue in cheek but personally I'd train my biceps with chest. Day of legs ro cardio, then train tricpes with back. That way you hit your arms twice in a week and on the arm specific exercises you've not already tired them out with compound exercises?

5th - it's tongue in cheek but personally I'd train my biceps with chest. Day of legs ro cardio, then train tricpes with back. That way you hit your arms twice in a week and on the arm specific exercises you've not already tired them out with compound exercises?

Keep mixing up the routines,shock and tear the muslces,protien straight after a workout,
ive trained at the gym since i was at school,not so much nowadays,dont mess about when im there though, one routine straight after another,do opposite muscles to each other with no breaks inbetween,give it some hammmer, varaition is the key.

IMHO isolation exercises are for rehabilitation,muscle imbalances or 'topping up'

It's far better to do compound exercises which recruit other muscles for stability etc. Dead lifts, squats, free weight bench press etc.. are far, far better for building muscle then continually using machines which have 1 range of motion.

^ I only have free weights. Tend to do 5 sets of each exercise to failure, reps vary from 10-6

I'm sorry but there is a woeful amount of 'broscience' BS in this thread.

Firstly, strength is a function of muscle cross sectional area and recruitment of these contractile fibres. There is no isolation of size or strength through rep ranges - if you disregard variables such as neural adaptation and exercise form in beginners, both strength and size will increase in line with each other or not at all.

The only way to consistently gain size and strength (there's no either or) is to progressively load weight within a sensible rep range. Anything over 15 reps is generally considered to be endurance building and will have a lesser effect on hypertrophy - but the science pretty much stops there. Choice of rep range should be based on common sense and personal preference alone i.e. being able to maintain safe form, increasing weight without stalling. As long as you are progressively increasing workload and not letting it become easy, you will make gains. That's all there is to it, anyone who tells you different is probably trying to sell you something.

As for muscle soreness, this is in no way an indicator of how hard you've worked. DOMS is thought to be caused (at least partly) by damage to muscle and connective tissue from lifting. The oldschool train of thought is that this is then how muscles grow (the fibres grow back thicker, stronger etc) - but in fact an entirely separate process called protein synthesis causes muscle growth. You stop getting DOMS after a few workouts as pain receptors become dulled, but protein synthesis still occurs up to a 'cap' rate. After this no matter how hard you destroy yourself, you won't gain any more benefit, and you certainly don't need to experience DOMS to reach this level.

Nothing to argue with there. You eloquently explain why there are so many different approaches and they all work. It doesn't matter a whole lot what you do.

As long as you are progressively increasing workload and not letting it become easy, you will make gains.

This is the key line.

You can't keep increasing workload. At some point you adapt and you're done. Which is where all the different approaches come back into it. Pick a different one and you'll start gaining again.

You can't keep increasing workload. At some point you adapt and you're done. Which is where all the different approaches come back into it. Pick a different one and you'll start gaining again.

Absolutely. I'm not trying to be contentious, I don't think anyone would argue the above point in the case of running or cycling: if you do x miles a day, you get good at doing x miles, but not massively further. The problem is that you can't really sell common sense, so instead success is attributed elsewhere, usually to something with a USP that looks good in Men's Health. The only thing science will conclusively support is the progressive increasing of workload.

Absolutely. I'm not trying to be contentious, I don't think anyone would argue the above point in the case of running or cycling: if you do x miles a day, you get good at doing x miles, but not massively further. The problem is that you can't really sell common sense, so instead success is attributed elsewhere, usually to something with a USP that looks good in Men's Health. The only thing science will conclusively support is the progressive increasing of workload.

It's interesting you use the term USP. That is a nice way of summing it up. The U bit is the problem. It implies one approach is uniquely good. Easy to believe if you use that approach and it works, which it will, that other approaches must be invalid (particularly the apparently contradictory ones).

deft speaks the truth. amen

Whoah, wait a minute... I want to get stronger and even more toned... but I don't want to get bigger, no sir. WTF am I meant to do now?! 🙁

Whoah, wait a minute... I want to get stronger and even more toned... but I don't want to get bigger, no sir. WTF am I meant to do now?!

one thousand... one thousand one... one thousand two.. one... oh heh there, I don't don't if you heard me, I did over a thousand.

60% of the time it works every time

All this talk of chest days, arm days and back days, didnt know about this.

I started doing a few weights last year when I had a sore foot and couldnt ride or walk much and wonder if doing the same workout three days a week can be anywhere near as effective, I try to do shoulders, chest back and arms in one workout, I dont do legs as theyve always been huge and SSing keeps them that way.

'pends what you're trying to achieve...

Tone, strength, a bit more muscle here and there, naturally chunky but not all in a good way.

Stick with full body (excl legs in your case) workouts then.
Or, go and do bodypump classes and leer at lycra clad lovelys.

I dont do the gym Ive just got some dumbells I throw around, one larger set, one smaller.

Do you want me to send you a picture of me in all my lycra clad loveliness? Is that what you're saying?

I could put it on me wall for.....inspiration.

You got mail... 8)

Ding dong! 😛

So any tips on good upper body dumbell workouts? I think Im doing it ok but always open to good advice.

You got a chin-up bar?

If not, get one.

I had a go on a mates, pulling up 15 1/2 stone is hard work, especially hands facing away.

Sounds like it's exactly what you need to be doing then!

Initally set it low enough so that you can take as much weight as you need to through your legs.

Alternatively do jump assisted ones and then try and hold/ pause at the top before lowering yourself.

I had a go on a mates, pulling up 15 1/2 stone is hard work, especially hands facing away.

Put your feet on a stool when doing them until you can manage without. But the shorter and lighter you are the easier it is!

Thatll play havoc with me tennis elbow that will.

lol, if u got an iphone download a free app called fitness pro... great little app with excersizes

If you've got an iPhone just remember to congratulate yourself with alternate hands to avoid muscular imabalance. 😉