[Closed] Gove. Gove Gove Gove..... Gove.

I think that used to be the case when there was 4 weeks notice midlifecrashes but it's far less prevelant now when it's less than a working day.

I'm afraid it's quite current. It's true that it's harder to shoehorn particular lessons into planning, but it still happens, more in primary I would expect. I'm speaking from first hand experience as chair of governors.

Teacher's ...

Needs improvement.

Back into Special Measures for me then. 🙂

[i]I'm speaking from first hand experience as chair of governors.[/i]

My wife's a headteacher, I'm not sure she'd allow 'that sort of thing' 🙂

Mr Woppit - Member

Says that all schools will now teach "British values".

O.K. so, er... what are they, then?

I guess perhaps the better way of asking the question is to ask what is [u]not [/u] British values.

🙄

[i] Britishness is about acceptance of those who are a bit different to yourself.[/i]

What! Are you serious?? One of the reason I go on forums (not very many) is that I find it fascinating hearing the various opinions of pepole of all ages and backgrounds. Some of it is quite eye opening, especially from the younger ones.

I think you should have said....'in an ideal world, acceptance of those who are a bit different to yourself would be the norm'

Everyone knows full well where the power lies in the present Tory party. And who's dictating the agenda….

Notice how the Chancellor's voice has been absent from all these cabinet kerfuffles of the past year?

Biding his time.... Editing his little black book... Quietly planning...

Why not? Are you a teacher or an ofsted inspector? Do you have any experience of it?

It's a 20 minute sample. Do you think that's a reasonable time-span in which to test all of their criteria, and to have confidence that the results of that test are representative?

Rockape63 - Member

Britishness is about acceptance of those who are a bit different to yourself.

What! Are you serious?? One of the reason I go on forums (not very many) is that I find it fascinating hearing the various opinions of pepole of all ages and backgrounds. Some of it is quite eye opening, especially from the younger ones.

I think you should have said....'in an ideal world, acceptance of those who are a bit different to yourself would be the norm'

Well that's not actually what I said is it?

I suppose in that context, Britishness is about acceptance of those who are a bit different to yourself. Sounds awful.

Which I certainly meant to imply that it was Gove's meaning, not mine. I have no idea at all what 'Britishness' means as I'm English and I hate all you foreign buggers equally (and especially the Welsh)

It's a 20 minute sample. Do you think that's a reasonable time-span in which to test all of their criteria, and to have confidence that the results of that test are representative?

For what they are looking for in lessons observations, yes it is a reasonable time span, they stay for longer if they feel they want to anyway. All the criteria are not expected in any one lesson anyway. Also they are assessing the school not the individual teacher. 20 mins wouldnt be enough to make judgments of a teacher, but lots of 20mins spread over lots of teachers in a school are sufficient to make judgments of the teaching within a school.

For what they are looking for in lessons observations, yes it is a reasonable time span, they stay for longer if they feel they want to anyway. All the criteria are not expected in any one lesson anyway. Also they are assessing the school not the individual teacher. 20 mins wouldnt be enough to make judgments of a teacher, but lots of 20mins spread over lots of teachers in a school are sufficient to make judgments of the teaching within a school.

Except that's not right, is it? If you read the inspection reports, findings are stated with specific lessons advanced as evidence. Given the tiny sample size, perhaps it's not so surprising that a school's overall assessment can change radically in a matter of months.

I have never seen specific lessons referred to in ofsted reports. I have seen specific subjects talked about but not specific lessons. This might not be the case at primary schools though, I've never read one of their reports.

[i] findings are stated with specific lessons advanced as evidence[/i]

I think the most recent guidance is that they don't 'mark' individual lessons any more and most comments will be tangential 'a year 6 lesson'.

For outstanding schools they don't even inspect unless there's a change of head or other significant alteration to circumstances any more, do they? Just rely on the paperwork.

Very simple.

British value is [u]not[/u] Muslamic value or vice versa.

The Victorian might have conquered some of the locations with this religion but they are certainly not part of British-ness unless you don't want to consume bacon? Yes!

🙄

A lady on Radio Four said yesterday that Ofsted inspections are not fit for purpose - don't know how true it is, but she said the main difference between the outstanding report of last year and the current special measures report at Trojan High is that the later report looked more closely at the experience the pupils were receiving.

As an aside that's not entirely unrelated (but at the same time not exactly on-topic), Mrs Pondo was telling me about a geography paper she's been marking, two examples - one was of a child who put their name and nothing else, the other was of a child who answered everything with racist and sexist profanity. I'm sure that's nothing particularly new, but given the approach of performance-related pay for teachers, it must be teeth-grindingly frustrating.

Britain is a christian country, some smarmy ****er said so not long ago.

I have never seen specific lessons referred to in ofsted reports. I have seen specific subjects talked about but not specific lessons. This might not be the case at primary schools though, I've never read one of their reports.

The most recent inspection for my local primary makes reference to a specific lesson.

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Britain is a christian country, some smarmy ****er said so not long ago.

Britain were worshiping the nature of Earth, Wind and Fire (not the band) in the early days.

The most recent inspection for my local primary makes reference to a specific lesson.

primary lesson observations are often much longer, the point stands though ofsted are judging a school not a lesson or a teacher. What does it say about the lesson?

primary lesson observations are often much longer, the point stands though ofsted are judging a school not a lesson or a teacher. What does it say about the lesson?

They are judging a school based in part on short observations made in lessons. I don't consider that to be a robust evidence base.

As I said before, perhaps that's how an overall rating can change dramatically in such a short period of time.

Gives some food for thought for the daft sods who take out enormous mortgages to move house to the catchment area of 'outstanding' schools, base purely on Ofsted reports.

They are judging a school based in part on short observations made in lessons. I don't consider that to be a robust evidence base.

depends what else they are doing surely.
36 observations spring to mind of my last ofsted, would it have been better if they did 18 40 min observations when we have I would guess 70ish teaching staff?
Lesson observations play a small part in the judgment. Results and progress are key. Also if the judgments of the ofsted observers fit with what the school management tell them to expect from different teachers.
Dont get me wrong they can be very crap, but they 20min observations are not the reason why. A skilled observer can see a lot in 20 mins about how a classroom is run during the rest of the year.

there's 90 points in the overall doc (not the detail one), 2 (53 and 54) refer to teaching and a number of the points within that refer to stuff that happens outside of a lesson.

[url= http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/framework-for-school-inspection-january-2012 ]http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/resources/framework-for-school-inspection-january-2012[/url]

I'd say observing a reasonable cross section of the staff in a school (or any workplace) for a short period of time gives a reasonable view of the quality of the actual work being done (when used in conjunction with all of the other evidence that's available). Bear in mind that inspection staff are usually experienced at this sort of thing.

Interview with two schoolboys at the scandal school in Birmingham on TV.

First- We aren't allowed to talk to or have girlfriends

Second boy- we should

First- no because its a Muslim school.

Second- NO its supposed to be an Academy/school not a Muslim school..

(first boy actually looked disgusted/shocked and probably told his parents that this boy was a Jin/whore loving infidel).

Still at least its not a Catholic school.

Those who can, do

Those who can't, teach

Those who can't teach, become OFSTED inspectors.

Those who can't teach, become OFSTED inspectors.

So how are we going to weed out the bad few dogshit who mascarrade as teachers?

Do you suggest we let individual schools decide on standards themselves?

[i]Which I certainly meant to imply that it was Gove's meaning, not mine. I have no idea at all what 'Britishness' means as I'm English and I hate all you foreign buggers equally (and especially the Welsh)[/i]

Ah, sorry....thats much more like it! 😀

Our most recent Ofsted grade was decided almost entirely by results: we dropped from a long-standing 1 to a 2 overall, but the results needed for a 1 essentially meant that we'd never been a 1 as we'd never had those results. Had the goalposts not been moved, we'd still be a 1.

In eleven years teaching here, I've experienced 3 inspections which were all entirely different in format. In the most recent, 4 inspectors observed a reasonable number of lessons over 3 days. In the one before that 2 inspectors observed our SMT observing 2 pre-selected lessons over 3 days, and in the first one 9 inspectors observed loads of lessons over a full week. I was seen once, for 60 minutes, during the first of these three inspections.

On the original topic, we know what Gove thinks about Britishness, because he wrote about it in 2007:

There is something rather unBritish about seeking to define Britishness. Rather like trying to define leadership, it’s a quality which is best appreciated when demonstrated through action rather than described in the abstract.

As a Scot who, like Brown, has made his career in London and whose family are now rooted in England, I feel immensely fortunate to be a citizen of a cosmopolitan state where nationality is defined not by ethnicity but sustained by the subtle interweaving of traditions and given life by a spirit of liberty.

Britishness is best understood as an identity shaped by an understanding of the common law, refined by the struggle between the people’s representatives and arbitrary power, rooted in a presumption in favour of individual freedom, enriched by a love of the quirky, local and unique, buttressed by anger at injustice, constantly open to the world and engaged with suffering of others, sustained through adversity by subversive humour and better understood through literature than any other art.

But if you really want to understand Britishness you need to ask why the British find Tracey Emin loveable, regard Ealing comedies as sacred, look on the world of Wodehouse as a lost Eden, always vote for the underdog on Big Brother, make the landscape the central character in their Sunday evening dramas, respect doctors more than lawyers and venerate their army but have never had a soldier as leader since the Duke of Wellington.

- http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/insearchofbritishvalues1/#.U5cOiXJdUlL

The ancient tradition of trying to blow up politicians in november?

Isn't that now called terrorism? and appears to be a year round activity undertaken by some ?

Nice one, cheers Miketually!

So what we've established is that Gove wants Britain to be about British. He wants Britain to be about British.

look on the world of Wodehouse as a lost Eden

Gove is a more pompous twit than all Wodehouses idiots combined.

...long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools' fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist' and, if we get our way, Shakespeare will still be read even in school.

But if you really want to understand Britishness you need to ask why the British find Tracey Emin loveable, regard Ealing comedies as sacred, look on the world of Wodehouse as a lost Eden, always vote for the underdog on Big Brother, make the landscape the central character in their Sunday evening dramas, respect doctors more than lawyers and venerate their army but have never had a soldier as leader since the Duke of Wellington.

😆

Eh? No-one finds Tracey Emin loveable.

Northwind - Member

...long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools' fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist' and, if we get our way, Shakespeare will still be read even in school.

You missed "jumpers for goalposts"...

Some will call me racist but we have to fearful of the way our society could go in 20-30yrs.

Racist!

Some will call me racist but we have to fearful of the way our society could go in 20-30yrs.

Ouch, it comes out that Gove didn't veto the inspections after all:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/10/ofsted-head-wrong-gove-snap-inspections-trojan-horse

wow the head of OFSTED must really hate Gove!

I dont recall Windrush, Indians etc wanting segretation, blow people up or their own laws to settle disputes. Started and growing.

Its pretty apparent to anyone with half a brain, that things like education are being taken out of local authority control, paving the way for what is effectively privatisation

Well thank God most people have a full brain then! 😉 which half would be required to believe that?

Occasionally there is a nugget of truth in what Gove says wrapped up in total tosh to be implemented badly, but this whole Britishness thing suggests he may one of the half brainers that Binners is referring to?

Scary stuff but not quite as bad as the idea that Gove, May and Osbourne all have aspirations for higher office. That alone should be motivation for privatisation of everything!!

Like the Ofsted joke.

I dont recall Windrush, Indians etc wanting segretation, blow people up or their own laws to settle disputes. Started and growing.

For Bin bins
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Eh? No-one finds Tracey Emin loveable.

Ahem.

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