[Closed] Going Veggie

Where do you live?

A small town in Andalucia, though can get occasional access to a Morrisons and Lidl.

TBH it's a real pain in Spain to be a veggie, I tried it for a couple of years but it was really hard going - like you say, chicken is borderline vegetable, and as for ham... Be aware too that a lot of the "standard" ingredients in British cooking are often hard to get in Spain (at least in Madrid) - garam masala, to give one example, doesn't exist here. It might be easier on the coast, there are more international supermarkets catering to the expat population.

From a training point of view there shouldn't be any problem, just look up vegetarian diets on the net, loads of good recipes that you can cook that will cover all the nutritional bases.

It's a bit of a yank yee-ha, high-five sort of a website but there's some excellent links and advice here:

http://www.nomeatathlete.com/

I'm a long time veggie and it has never been a problem for me. I train and ride plenty and have no trouble getting enough protein.

Pros

- If you do it right it's healthier
- Potentially you can feel more ethical/morally superior 😉

Cons

- If you do it wrong, it's not good for you
- If get evangelical about it as many inadvertantly do, your friends will start avoiding you
- You'll fart lots more (this isn't really true but it's fun to wind veggies up about it).
- In lots of places like France, Spain, etc they'll think something's wrong with you and the veggie option will be the meat option less the meat eg Spag bol becomes plain spag 🙂
- Meat is nice - you'll be missing out!

So, that's more cons than pros which is why I'm not a veggie 🙂

I have been thinking about trying a vegetarian diet.

It's times like these you should think, what would my spiders do?

....meat it is then.

....and possibly the odd fly.

black beans (all beans really) are an excellent source of protein. I like bean burgers.

last night had em; soften onion, add some spices, add some beans, mash it up, squash into burgers and fry. can add breadcumbs etc.

keep an eye on your amino acids. when i looked at my diet i needed to throw more nuts and seeds in - i just added seeds to salds and nuts to stirfry and ate more nuts as a snack.

and vitamin b12 - mostly found in meat, but present in eggs, marmite and some fortified breakfast cereals.

i found this book quite useful

http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Sports-Nutrition-Guide-Performance/dp/0471348082

@roper - why are you thinking of doing it?

For health reasons or ethical?

I've been veggie since the early 90's.

I can't really comment on Spain as I've never been, but I can perhaps clear up a few myths.

The big one is that I think it's possible to have a healthy diet, or an unhealthy one, irrespective of whether you eat meat or not. If your diet consists solely of Big Macs, or solely of lettuce, you're going to be ill. Whichever you choose, try and get a balanced diet.

If you want to give it a go, it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing. Do it gradually, and see how you feel. Maybe cut out red meat for a few months, see if you're happy, if there's any side-effects. Then if you want to carry on you can look at removing white meat and see how you get on there.

If eating out is a problem, perhaps you could go veggie at home but keep meat as a "treat" when you've no other option?

Both veggies and omnivores have their share of evangelists. Ignore them, they're invariably halfwits, and the problem with discussing things with halfwits is that they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

I'd love to come out, but I couldn't bear to bring the shame on my family... guess I'll just keep shoving meat down my throat.

Thank's for the help and links.

It's times like these you should think, what would my spiders do?

It is the same here mogrim. I live in a small town and chicken really was offered at the veggie option 🙂 Gibraltar has a couple of health food shops and a Morrisons, but don't really like going there though I could stock up.

stratobiker A bit of both. I'm not too keen on some of the mass farming methods and some are even worse where I live. I would like to see if I notice any health benefits and maybe be a bit kinder to my liver and colon 🙂 I do like a lot of vegetarian food too.

British cooking are often hard to get in Spain (at least in Madrid) - garam masala, to give one example, doesn't exist here. It might be easier on the coast, there are more international supermarkets catering to the expat population.

I didnt eat meat for a quite a while, but I recently started eating fish again so Im now a "Come Dine With Me" vegetarian.

I eat lots of vegetables, lots of fruit, quite alot of nuts and seeds, quite abit of fish and not much dairy. One thing to probably avoid doing is just eating cereal for breakfast, sandwiches for dinner and pasta for tea everyday.

If its for health reasons you would do better to look at eating healthy with all types of food in your diet.

I was veggie for years until I started dispatching in East London. You couldn't beat a proper slap-me-some-brekkie type of food when you were drenched and cold.
I'd like to go back but meat is an easy option. Can't be bothered with the hard ones at the moment.

I think it was discovered last year, and it eats algae.

Sound delicious!

Embajadores tio! You're just not trying hard enough, are you?

OK, I exaggerated, if you try hard enough you can find some. But you can't get it at a normal supermarket, and a "small town in Andalucia" isn't going to be any better...

My (then future) father-in-law's attitude pretty much sums it up - when told I was vegetarian, his comment was: "But he eats ham, right?"

Personally I'd just cut down on the meat.

Bacon sarnies.......is the only thing I could not give up.....otherwise I would go veggie ! 😉

- Meat is nice - you'll be missing out!

If you genuinely think this (OP) then don't bother, you won't stick to it. Just have a few more meat free days, eat more pulses etc.

This is the thing non veggies seem to find hard to swallow, like it's some kind of self flagellation.. I don't like meat or fish, be that by nature or nurture now, so it just isn't an issue.

The main benefit of fully buying in is that you do tend to think a lot more about what you eat, which doesn't sopund like it's a problem for you anyway.

Lots of people saying just cut down on meat? Can I ask but what's the reasoning for this? Meat is an incredibly healthy food so unless you have beliefs etc that mean you don't wish to eat meat then there is no reason to try and cut down on it, nearly all people should in reality aim to eat a lot more meat than they do now.

nearly all people should in reality aim to eat a lot more meat than they do now.

Not trolling but can I ask what evidence you have to prove that?

I was going to ask that too

No problem, can really point to any good sources that will explain quickly though as I have read many books on this and also I see a sports nutritionist as well. Generally its best to find some information on the paleo diet (hate that word) which is ok, but is very extreme in cutting out carbs. But a book co-authored by Joe Friel (of training bible fame) called The Paleo Diet for Athletes is an adjusted version to account for this and is a very good read full of excellent information on what's needed during and after exercise to aid recovery etc overall a good source of information easily explained.

As I say its difficult for me to really explain this (and poor citing on my part), I would point you to the Facebook page of ON4Sport and suggest taking a look back through the posts as he links to lots of good information from many different sources and the advice does work, I'm generally quite sceptical but his advice has worked far better than I could have hoped for.

Well I'd be inclined to take that [i]"nearly all people should in reality aim to eat a lot more meat than they do now. " [/i] with a large pinch of salt. (But they like their salt in Spain.)

But Spain an veggie? I'd certainly do it, but it pretty much puts paid to eating out. (But that's a bonus in Spain he says..taking cover.). But you should be able to buy beans and nuts by the sackload in many places. What you won't find are convenience food type veggie things. (If convenience food's your thing), personally it isn't mine.
So you'll ned to work harder, but if you find good markets, they will be a mecca for proper hard-grown salads and gnarly vegetables.

And there are probably almond orchards on your doorstep. - A goldmine. You could hardly be better placed for some good things in life..

This is the thing non veggies seem to find hard to swallow, like it's some kind of self flagellation.

For some people it is. I've seen some veggies turn into drooling wrecks at the prospect of a bacon butty. I just don't get that; if you want it that badly, have one. Why do something that makes you miserable?

Lots of people saying just cut down on meat? Can I ask but what's the reasoning for this?

Because the OP said he wanted to?

As a wild generalisation, the Western diet usually contains far more protein than we actually need.

Don't.
You are not designed for it, it's dull, pointless and your social life will dwindle as the people around you become increasingly tired of accommodating your late 20th century foibles.

If any diet requires special care and attention or food supplements to avoid malnutrition then you cannot claim you were not warned.

You are not designed for it, it's dull, pointless and your social life will dwindle as the people around you become increasingly tired of accommodating your late 20th century foibles.

... in your opinion. Funnily enough, the range of food I eat has increased massively since I went vegetarian, and far from being the social pariah you allude to, people come round to my place for dinner on a regular basis.

If any diet requires special care and attention or food supplements to avoid malnutrition then you cannot claim you were not warned.

You only need to take a supplement if you have a bad diet, and that's true whether you're veggie or not.

Perhaps I need to make some rash generalisations too. "Eating meat gives you a blinkered view of the world and makes you intolerant of anyone who does things differently from you!" Wow, see how easy it is to make stuff up!

Don't.
You are not designed for it, it's dull, pointless and your social life will dwindle as the people around you become increasingly tired of accommodating your late 20th century foibles

We were 'designed' to eat raw meat (one of the supposed reasons for the appendix) but we jacked that in too.

If anyone wants a moral high horse type argument, my understanding is that land is used more efficiently and productively to produce food for a vegetarian diet, so it's a better way to meet the growing populations requirements. But I couldn't give a toss either way what you do so fill yer boots.

As a matter of interest though, how many meat eaters would eat the 'petri dish' meat that labs are trying to grow at the moment? I'm not sure if counts, but count me out anyway.

how many meat eaters would eat the 'petri dish' meat that labs are trying to grow at the moment?

If I was confident that it was indistinguishable from 'real' meat I'd have no problem with it - though obviously it'd depend on whether it ended up as a source of cheap but poor quality meat or was used to reproduce the currently full range of meat - eg from crap to excellent quality. I don't eat meat because I want to eat bits of a previously living animal - I do it because it's nice to eat.

I don't see why arguing the ethical reasons for doing this is worth it? If the OP is doing it for ethical reasons then that is their decision if it is because they want to be healthier and have thought of going vegetarian for that reason then I think it best to look at improving the diet including all food types before making such a change if that is the desired outcome.

my understanding is that land is used more efficiently and productively to produce food for a vegetarian diet

My understanding is actually the opposite - that if the world went veggie overnight, there isn't sufficient unpopulated land to create the arable farmland we'd require.

Could be wrong though, I've not read into this for some time now.

how many meat eaters would eat the 'petri dish' meat that labs are trying to grow at the moment?

Quorn?

Not quorn (at least as I understand it) - muscle grown separately - just like a plant really - rather than ever having been part of a living animal.

You are not designed for it

Oh, your one of them.

Thankfully we've actually evolved, and can now decide not to include meat in our diets and still live a long, healthy life.

Acutally, in evolution timescales, we haven't at all. What we have done is learnt how to eat different food from what we've evolved to deal with by managing the exact (veggie) foods we eat to mimic the food we're actually adapted to eat.

Bullshit

Hardly. Besides you're a bit touchy on this, especially as I think I was basically agreeing with you, just pointing out that we haven't evolved, merely learned/adapted to mimic that diet without eating meat. Our bodies are still 'designed' to deal with an omivorous diet.

I like a lot of vegetarian cooking and when it is on offer I tend to go for that option. The main problem I have is like mogrim said, it is not part of the culture here, though that is changing.
We do have a great selection of beans, lentils, almonds, dates and figs on offer. People here tend to eat sunflower or pumpkin seeds over a packet of crisps, so in some ways I am spoilt. The problem is meat is also easily eaten with every meal of the day, from dripping in the morning to jamon at night.
I find I feel better after a good veggie dinner than a meat one, and enjoy cooking it too.
I think my weakness will be sea food. Living near the sea we get regular fresh catches and fresh ensalada pulpo is fantastic on a summers day 🙂

Fish don't count because they don't have feelings...

As far a design is concerned I though we can do all. Some cultures have been veggie for thousands of years, others only option is meat and fish. It depends on where people have lived and other conditions. It's not as simple as on way, the other or both, it's more choice.

Funny enough it was jamon that lured me back onto meat, in an Andalucian village (possibly Grazalema).

Hike across the mountains took much longer than expected and I arrived famished. The vegetable soup came with ham in of course, and I was so hungry I just ate everything in front of me.

If I hadn't been diagnosed with high cholesterol I think I'd buy a leg next time I go out there. Mmmmm.

Go for it Roper,

I've been veggie for 8 or 9 years now.

Why am I veggie.

1. I love good veggie food. You have to be a little creative but that exposes you to so much more choice. In fact the food I eat is much tastier than I ever had as a meat eater. I used to love a steak but now can't really see the appeal.

2. It's healthier for you. As far as most of my research suggests. You'll always get people claiming one way or another. All I know is that I've done a lot more physical stuff as a vegetarian than most meat eaters - including a 6 month bike tour and climbing a 6500m high mountain.

3. I like riding my bike in the forest NOT in fields. The world population is increasing, it is getting more affulent it is eating more meat. More meat production puts pressure to convert land to grow feed, consume fresh water supplies and then to grow livestock = more pressure on forests = less singletrack (or at least less opportuinity to develop new singletrack as competing groups vie for precious wilderness areas).

I'd rather more singletrack than more meat.

Oh and there's that climate change thing
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/oct/27/vegan-vegetarian-stern-climate-change?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

and water consumption

http://www.veg-soc.org/PDF_Downloads /'Eating%20Up%20the%20World'.pdf

So I prefer the taste, am healthy and have the side benefit of not helping to destroy the environment that I want to ride my bike in.

P'raps I should stop the rant now.

Anyway enjoy the spinach and chickpeas in those Tapas bars and get ready to learn some cooking skills.

Vegetarian is healthier than your average diet, but this doesn't mean its healthier than a diet that includes meat. Vegetarians tend to think more about what they eat and therefore that leads to good health. Cutting out meat isn't what makes it healthier, but more the attitude to what you eat which is definitely a good things either way because societies main problem is that people don't consider what they are putting into their bodies and poor government guidelines done help.

And saying we have evolved to allow us to cut out meat is very incorrect, we don't evolve that quickly and as was said above it is that fact that with a modern understanding of what is in each food type that vegetarians can substitute different foods to account for the loss of nutrition from cutting out meat that it works.

Mostly its a matter of a varied diet. Not hard.

The only thing which might possibly be a problem (in my research) are some vitamin b levels. But thats fixed if you have sufficient variety.