[Closed] Going self employed as a labourer

This explains it all pretty well:

https://www.gov.uk/set-up-sole-trader

Does he already have a personal bank account? There's no need for a separate business account although it is advisable.

He just needs to complete a self-assessment every year to pay the necessary income tax and National Insurance.

I’d love to say “ring HMRC and speak to a bank”

or just do it all online, it's easy enough, bit of googling will sort it.

Not my area either, but if I've been paying attention to stuff my telly tries to sell me, isn't this exactly the kind of advice one of the big banks offer as their no.1 promoted service?
It's either Barclays or Lloyds that says they teach youngsters advice about this kind of thing.
He'd just need to book a chat with an advisor.

[edit]Yes - Google Barclays Lifeskills

Also look into HMRC’s construction scheme. From memory tax etc is deducted at point of pay by the employer regardless of self employed status.

Our compliance officer does the payroll for a building firm and I’m pretty sure that’s what she said happened these days.

Thing is I've not got much time at the moment, and the lad for whatever disillusioned reason appears to listen to me about going 'legit' - so while he is working in my house (within my grasp) I want to be able to set him up on the right path. That link (thank you), even to me looks a bit confusing.

If I don't sort it out for him (which he wants) I know he will just leave this job on Thursday and just slip back into what his peers do.

I know it appears a bit as a I can't be arsed, but it's not - it's just I don't have the time to look into it and hoping someone could summarise the key (read: minimal) things that laddo needs to do, in a bullet point kind of way, that I can sit him down and do. He doesn't even have a current account, but I can help with that bit.

If it helps, the only thing he was excited about talking about today was his new Fuji mountain bike which he rides with his mates on the weekend - so he deserves some hive mind help from here surely?  🙂

As above he’ll need to register with CIS.

20% will be deducted at source which is then offset against his self assessment return.

If he’s not CIS registered he’ll struggle to get work from some contractors and if he does they will deduct 30%.

He will also need to get a CSCS card to work on construction sites. Simple CITB test and register to get the card.

read that

https://www.gov.uk/log-in-file-self-assessment-tax-return/register-if-youre-self-employed

tell him to open at least couple of bank accounts, your choice as to which bank, google it.

I use 4 tbh.

1 I call business account to get paid into/pay out of.
2 I call personal account that I pay my wages into.
3 I call tax account, that I stick tax into.
4 for payment I've taken for things, but I don't need to pay for a while.

He'll need to figure out some system for tracking his accounts, I just do mine in excel, but I'm fairly comfortable there. Some kind of accounting software might be easier.

Tell him to keep all invoices and receipts.

Crossed posts so-

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">—Bank account</span>

- Register as self employed with the revenue

- Get a CIS registration number

-Get a CSCS card

Yeah, sorry Bear - from the ads, I expected them to actually offer advice. But it's just a load of crap on their website, basically. I've always hated Barclays anyway.
Still, same applies - get the phone no. of his nearest bank. You or him phone them and tell them you need to speak to someone about starting up. They'll be gagging to get him to sign up for a current account, so will sort him out, I'm sure!

Definitely make sure he gets a cscs card if he wants on building sites.

Make sure he tidies up agter himself and finishes things off properly then he becomes the guy who gets kept on to fix the lazy bastards half finished crap.

Also where abouts because i think we'll have apprenticeships coming up this year. Its river and flooding stuff and if he's got a head on him it might be something i can keep an eye if he's interested

Maybe I'm asking too much then for a simplified guide - damn it. I just want to help him on the right path while I have the opportunity.

And no, he hasn't got a good head on his shoulders - he's a bloody idiot.

"Please don't put anything gypsum-based in the skip"

Tonight:

[img] [/img]

"Please close the door behind you. The through-draft will probably smash the glass out of the patio doors and I'm trying to keep the house warm for everyone"

"You've done it again. Close the bloody door."

"FFS! Do you listen?!"

End result:

[img] [/img]

So no, I wouldn't recommend him to an employer. But he's a nice lad and don't want him going down the wrong path 🙂

He definitely needs to register as self-employed - HMRC are pretty good about this stuff, however, if they catch up on him after working a year or so and then realising he needs to register, they won't be so nice about it. He should also register to pay the minimum NI contributions for now so that he doesn't build up a bill. He can decide to contribute more when he grows up a bit. But he needs to be paying something for now.

As above he’ll need to register with CIS.

Not necessarily - depends on who he's working for and how regular the work is. Most main contractors will deduct at source, but a small jobbing builder may not if he's giving your lad ad hoc work. In any case, he should register - it'll ensure he doesn't build up a tax bill if he's not that worldly wise - and from what you say, that sounds like a sensible approach. So, I'd tell him to get himself sorted on that front. He'll need his UTR from any paperwork he's had from HMRC previously - save it on his phone and never lose it. Explain that CIS deductions are like an annual rainy-day savings - he'll most likely owe less tax than has been deducted and HMRC will refund the balance.

EDIT: Also, as irresistible as it might seem, tell him to avoid taking cash for work. It's a bad habit to get into and unless he's really sensible, he'll end up blowing it on something stupid that he can't show income to prove he could afford it. If he does take cash, use it for shopping, beer money etc not for an expensive smartphone.

As for CSCS, I have a CSCS card which I've paid for twice in the last few years. It'll be useful if he ends up working for one of the huge building companies - however, in the last 6 or 7 years, I've never been asked for it. "Do you have a CSCS card mate?" "Yeah, but I'm ****ed if I can find the thing." "Ah right, don't worry about it, you're here now and the job needs doing..." Seriously, I wish it was a scheme that was adhered to a bit more, but even reasonably large contractors, say up to £30m builds just don't give a shit - they may do for labourers. In the long term he should get himself one, but I wouldn't be bamboozling him with detail yet. He can worry about that if the work presents itself.

And tell him to stick any receipts for work, food, clothing, mobile phone, etc etc into a shoe-box. Even if he never does his accounts, a book-keeper will help him stick it all in a spreadsheet in a couple of years time and decide which are tax-deductible or not.

Good work on trying to help him out.

Good on you OP but to be fair most 17 year olds won't know what Gypsum is, they've all been taught how to code but nothing about a trade. Ask him to sort your phone and he'll probably blow you away. As above re UTR, CIS and CSCS but is he cash in hand/off the radar at the moment? If so it might be worth him getting down the job centre they might pay for his test/card or if not register with a few labour agencies.

I don't think you can just rock up and take a test and get a CSCS card anymore.
Need to be studying towards something , or pay for and complete a separate one day H & S course these days

^^^ you do need to pass a test to get your card, study aids are available and it's not rocket science just awareness of things that might harm you. You only need further study/NVQ if you're going for a trade.

You can buy a book with ALL possible questions - as long as he can answer them, then he can pass the test. Honestly, it's a bloody bollocks system. Well intentioned, but utterly shite in its implementation and subsequent use by constructors.

Thank you everyone, but as DD has provided the most helpful information I'm afraid you've got a PM incoming 🙂

Labourers cscs card and a utr number from the taxman.
Be warned though a lot of large sites won't have under 18s on as labourers.
I took pity on one lad who the agency asked me to give a chance. He's turned out to be a cracking lad and I'm disappointed I can't give him a full time role.

Seriously, I wish it was a scheme that was adhered to a bit more, but even reasonably large contractors, say up to £30m builds just don’t give a shit 

Have to disagree with dd on that one and that's not something I've probably done before as he's worldly wise.

As for cscs card I've just put a lad through to get his, very easy and not mega expensive.

you really should use a decent skip company, gypsum in the skip wouldn't matter then

Have to disagree with dd on that one and that’s not something I’ve probably done before as he’s worldly wise.

I wish I was asked for it more dude, but there are a good few large contractors I work for now and again and they’ve never even bloody mentioned it. Fair dues if you do, but it’s a shite scheme. I don’t do anything for the big builders, and maybe because my trade is “skilled” 🤓 and I’m a bit of a silver fox, the site managers assume I’ll be ok - maybe the labourers have to have something.

@bearnecessities, I’ll have a look in a bit. I’m still doing my books for 2017/18 😂

I've got a CSCS card linked to my digger ticket and also done the 5 day CITB SMSTS cousrse. I agree the CSCS card is a scam, but work pays for all of mine. Any experienced worker could probably pass it without looking at the book, but iirc they do put a few questions in that read very similar but different answers. And you only have to study the relevant sections to your trade with a few compulsory sections.

^^^ you do need to pass a test to get your card, study aids are available and it’s not rocket science just awareness of things that might harm you. You only need further study/NVQ if you’re going for a trade.

If you want the green labourers card, then as well as passing the test , you also need what's shown below..
This is taken directly from the CSCS website....

"You can apply for this card if you have completed the QCF Level 1/SCQF Level 4 Award in Health and Safety in a Construction Environment or SCQF Level 5 REHIS Elementary Health and Safety Certificate. This is a lifetime qualification that only needs to be completed once and will be accepted in 5 years’ time when renewing your Labourer card."

Taken from here
https://www.cscs.uk.com/card-type/labourer/

Honestly? If he can't close a door (what teenager can? 🙂 ) then he'll do far better getting employed. Self-employment can be a minefield of obligations and regs so I'd steer him towards apprenticeship and college

If you want the green labourers card, then as well as passing the test , you also need what’s shown below..
This is taken directly from the CSCS website….

It says that alternatives to QCF etc are acceptable - an alternative being the CITB test, so it's not both its one or the other.

Is he just labouring for other people or does he have (potential / desire) to actually be the main contact? If he would like to be starting up as a "one man business" rather than just muscle, then PSYBT part of the the Princes Trust sounds like it would be a good place for advice, support, mentoring. https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/help-for-young-people/support-starting-business

One thought - if he works for others as the hired grunt who are happy to pay him off the books - if he "goes legit" does that make them feel exposed by him about there own dodgy practices? I don't have a solution for that.

It says that alternatives to QCF etc are acceptable – an alternative being the CITB test, so it’s not both its one or the other.

The CITB health safety and environment test , is not the same as the CITB one day health and safety awareness course.
You have to complete the one day course. Then you sit the CITB health safety and environment test (the touch screen one)
In the old days you could just do the test in the back of their bus, send a photo and a few quid off and you get your card.
Mine ran out Nov 16. I need to get a new one , but can't spare a day at the moment to do the course . Bloody annoying as I'll have to spunk out £125 + VAT to be told what I already know . It's all a moneymaker for the CITB.
If anyone knows how to circumnavigate the 1 day course then I'm all ears 😉

Thanks everyone - it's amazing actually how much he's responded to someone paying an interest in his well-being. He closed every door behind him today! The other 'lads' take the piss (rightly so, it's character building) but he's not got anyone actually helping him out with things that matter.

Today we've got him sorted with an email address and a replacement birth certificate on order -  he also now has a check-list written up for everything he needs to do next such as getting a passport & DL for the whole ID thing, so he can then get a bank account etc.

DD was very generous in his time today by talking through the whole S/E & CIS business with me - so once we've got him sorted on the ID front, laddo knows what to do next to get into the system and a life of tax-based misery like the rest of us 🙂

😀👏

At 17 can he not get an apprenticeship and go to college? Lots of funding out there at that age and a future...

so once we’ve got him sorted on the ID front, laddo knows what to do next to get into the system and a life of tax-based misery like the rest of us 🙂

Congratulations, he is now enslaved to 'The Man' for all eternity 😉