I’m from an eat it or starve household and it’s left me with a life long poor relationship with food; I can’t bear to see food go to waste and I find it extremely difficult to not eat leftovers at the end of the meal, or to just stop eating when there is an over abundance of food at a function.
I recognise this. I think because my parents were on rations as kids they forced us to eat everything ... then Dad would race me at dinner time. His version of masculinity - probably because he was underweight growing up (there's photos of him sitting in a coal bunker chewing the stuff) - rubbed off on me, and because he would show pride in my appetite I got attention and felt I was doing well. Then I got competitive in eating and drinking. In early high school I'd race drinking milk at break times. For a while i'd drink 6 pints of the stuff a day. By 13 it was 10 cans of beer at the weekend.
And in middle age those habits are so entrenched just the concept of missing a meal scares me. I find myself eating before bed 'just in case.' As if i'm going to starve over night!
Fish was absolutely the one thing I wouldn't eat though. Pretty sure it's because Dad would stink the house out with kippers at the weekends and I somehow thought all fish tasted of that smell.
Some children prefer to eat little and often - doesn’t fit in with our three meals a day approach but they are children so they just do what is instinctive. As someone else said, a plate of food can be overwhelming. No harm in having healthy snacks as opposed to main meals in my book as they grow out of it, I assume breakfast is OK?
I dinged up a king prawn something-or-other ready meal for my partner a couple of days ago. It made me want to heave.
Pedantically, prawns aren't fish. My daughter likes fish but always complained about shellfish and shrimp making her feel sick. Then my wife realized she meant physically nauseous so we had her tested for allergies. She's allergic to shellfish, shrimp, etc., but not to proper fish.
... and therefore she's also allergic to cicadas.
You know, just in case. https://community.aafa.org/blog/if-you-have-a-shellfish-allergy-don-t-eat-cicadas-no-matter-how-tasty-they-may-look
Our 4 year old has been a bit awkward in the week for a while. We’ve always had snacky food around for keeping the kids going after nursery, and she’s learned that if she constantly complains about being hungry as soon as she gets home, she gets fed lots of snacks. We put an end to it by offering ‘dinner lite’. Cheese wrap, small beans on toast etc. She has three meals at nursery plus healthy snacks so doesn’t (usually) need another full meal but does sometimes need more than a small snack. This was a good compromise, I don’t mind binning some beans or an uneaten slice of toast, I do mind spending a fortune on snacks or binning 90% of a roast dinner. We eat our dinner later after the kids are in bed.
When she was younger she would refuse to eat meals, it turned out our healthy snack portions between meals were too big. We cut down on those, then the odd time she’d refuse to eat something we stuck it in the fridge and got it back out when she next said she was hungry. Sometimes she would moan a bit then eat it, others she would be distraught (and some things are not nice cold or reheated) and we would suck it up and give something else.
All the advice these days seems to be around developing a healthy relationship to food, teaching the kids from when they start weaning that there are lots of options, they don’t have to eat stuff they don’t like. But it’s a balance between that and getting them to eat a varied and healthy diet as they get older which becomes tricky at times.
Sounds like a 3 year old being a 3 year old. The problem doesn't seem to be the child, rather the lack of consistency from the parents - that could do with sorting one way or another (or somewhere in between e.g. the only alternative ever offered is toast or a banana or something).
One little tip I always try to keep in mind (as an owner of a 5 year old and a 3 year old) is to try and have at least 1 thing on the plate they'll definitely eat. Unfortunately, as you've already mentioned, that thing might suddenly not work when it definitely worked very recently. Not much you can do about that.
There's an Instragram page called Kids Eat in Colour that I like, have picked up some useful bits n pieces in there over the years (e.g. the have 1 thing they'll eat and also the suggestion to keep portion sizes really small as mentioned by someone else)
And my final thing . . . sometimes they just aren't hungry EDIT: which just reminded me (also possibly from Kids Eat in Colour) its the parents job to provide food for the kids, the kids are in charge of eating it. ie, don't sweat it, you've done you're end of the bargain
I wouldn't get too hung up over the variety thing, either. As long as they're getting what they need, it doesn't really matter if that means peas and a bit of chicken most nights. Both of my kids were pretty unadventurous with food up until the age of 16 or so, but since then things have massively changed.
Anyway from what I remember the food tantrums were a pain at the time, but don't really last that long. Small portion size, give them the illusion of choice (peas or broccoli?) and eating together as a family (at the table, no TV, no phones, no reading) were what worked for us. Oh, and 16 years later we still have the same rules when eating together 😀
Don't overthink it is all I would say as it sounds like a typical 3-year-old both of mine at that age were fussy eaters, we also did the extra meals thing as we wanted them to eat something, just remember they are only young and trying to get them to eat an adult meal may not be their idea of fun.
Mine are now 16 & 13 with incredible appetites and will eat anything and everything if given the chance.
In fact, we all went out Sat Night for a Thai meal in Leeds and if you had asked me 10 years ago during the fussy eating stage if that would happen I'd have told you NO!
Just be positive and offer different types of food but maybe not whilst having the family dinner and see how they get on.
We went on a baby lead weaning course which included covering toddlers, (which could be a great way to get two parents on the same page). The general concept for our toddler (2.5yrs old) is following these guidelines:
Never offer a substitute. The goal isn't they eat this meal, or the next dinner, they need to build a long term pattern of eating what they are offered. If they're hungry before bed if they've refused dinner, only offer the same dinner again. Put them to bed hungry if necessary.
Offer 3 - 5 food items, make at least one a favourite. Don't force them to finish anything. It can take 6 meals of offering something before the toddler will try it, so don't give up.
Many toddlers like the food cut up small and little on the plate. A full plate can look intimating. Our daughter has flat out refused to eat something until we cut it up small, but she won't always say that's the reason.
Don't react, either positive or negative. You can do things like ask, 'Do you think the carrot is crunchy or soft?'. Food is just food, it shouldn't have a reward or punishment. If they refuse to sit down to eat, remind them every 10 minute and no more often.
If you offer a sweet/desert, serve it with all the food at the start. They may eat it first, but they are more likely to eat other items if they don't have to wait for a 'reward food'.
Don't clean any mess on their face/table/floor until they finish. The number one cause of fussy eaters is parents wiping the child's face during meal time.
The OP mentioned snacking. I wonder, what does that look like? Are we talking a banana or a bag of Haribo?
I think because my parents were on rations as kids they forced us to eat everything …
Oh yeah, that was another one. "There's kids starving in Africa who would be grateful for that!" Well, send it to them then, because I don't want it.
On what grounds is doggedly serving the same meal reheated whilst your child starves acceptable behaviour? That’s messed up.
Starve is a rather emotional term. I don't think the OP is actually proposing to starve his child or that if he consistently refused to eat any sensible food for several days that he is not going to seek medical help. That said threats of force feeding and children's homes are not a healthy parent child relationship - people who have endured it may think its normal and "didn't do them any harm" but even if it doesn't lead to recognised eating disorders it certainly can result in unhealthy relationships with food.
As for who's right Mr or Mrs TallMartin? That's really for them to sort out. Importantly its not for:
Several of my family have commented...
Several of my wife’s family have chipped in...
Because the inlaws judging your parenting never goes well. What I can say is that if mealtimes are a source of conflict in the TM household often its not quite as simple as whether TMjnr is eating or not. In this household MrsPoly is coming home from work, feeding everyone and it being rejected and MrPoly offering solutions (or suggestions) is not what is wanted. MrsPoly wants to not feel she needs to do everything and then be criticised for it if the 3 yr old doesn't play ball and she takes an easy option for a quiet life.
Oh, and it might be a phase, but 12 year later you may still make something which was perfectly acceptable last week but this week gets picked at. I take it as a sign that they aren't really hungry - because barring a few actual eating disorders or physical pain in mouth/throat/stomach the answer to:
Would you eat that?
Is usually - yes if I'm hungry enough. Prisoners eat, and I'm sure TM's delicacies are nicer than the stuff getting served there.
You would be better to just let it go. It will end up effecting your relationship with your wife and then no one wins. Just make it clear you dont agree with it and you will not be made to feel guilty or inconvenienced because they are choosey beggers. Trust me it gets into everything. Camping trips - I'm not eating that. Restaurant visit - I'm not eating that. Holidays - I'm not eating that. Just about every day you make a decision of what to eat as a family you better get used to - I'm not eating that......
I had similar with my lad but me and the wife were on the same page and made him eat what was put out. It was her sisters MIL (Yes weird) who used to butt in and judge us. I eventually wouldnt let the woman anywhere near the kids because she would undermine anything and everything. Our kids would always get praised for being good balanced eaters with healthy appetites. Now they are older they can do what they like but while i was able to influence them they ate what me and my wife put in front of them.
Starve is a rather emotional term. I don’t think the OP is actually proposing to starve his child or that if he consistently refused to eat any sensible food for several days that he is not going to seek medical help.
Someone was.
At what point do you give up on this tactic? An afternoon? A day? A week? And as soon as you do, the kid wins.
If you think a problem eater is suddenly going to go "ooh, yummy" at a dried-out husk of a plate that's been back in the oven three times over, you're off your nut. They'll never eat whatever it is again.
Someone was.
No they weren't you were reading the words too literally. They mean go hungry not starve. Nobody on this thread has seriously suggested that a child should be nutritionally deprived to persuade them to eat.
At what point do you give up on this tactic? An afternoon? A day? A week? And as soon as you do, the kid wins.
You don't "give up" on the tactic. If they don't eat dinner, they'll be hungry and probably eat breakfast. They may not eat dinner the following day, and the cycle continues. If they aren't eating at all then as I said, after a few days clearly there is a need for medical investigation.
If you think a problem eater is suddenly going to go “ooh, yummy” at a dried-out husk of a plate that’s been back in the oven three times over, you’re off your nut. They’ll never eat whatever it is again.
It depends what you mean by "problem eater" but lets assume you mean the same as me - so perhaps 1/4 of all children (in not more) rather than 1% who have some genuine mental health type relationship with food. I assure you that they do get hungry enough to eat the reheated slop or survive just fine until the next day, when a new opportunity arises (when they will be hungrier / its something different / they've learned eating it first time is nicer, even if its not their favourite). The aim is not to achieve "Ooh, yummy" its to achieve "Oh, this is all I'm getting, I'd better make the most of it".
Whilst I understand you have a very different relationship with food, projecting the very small number of people with a real eating disorder onto the vast majority of children who are just not hungry (which is fine - there's too many fat kids already, swapping the food for something "nicer" the sort of stuff we all eat when we probably shouldn't is a quick fix but brewing a different longer term issue) or being difficult (which is very common too and most kids can learn to get over).
At what point do you give up on this tactic? An afternoon? A day? A week? And as soon as you do, the kid wins.
You don't give up. In reality the toddler will eat 2 out of 3 meals while there is an adjustment period and after a few days to weeks, it'll start to work. The approach I previously mentioned does also include giving them a small amount of a favourite with each meal so they will eat something.
At what point do you give up on this tactic? An afternoon? A day? A week? And as soon as you do, the kid wins.
Probably the best advice I got was from a friend with older kids. He told me that if you get into a battle of wills with a child, you've already lost. I think we were lucky with our daughter, she was usually pretty cooperative, but I did make a point of not getting into a battle of wills with her over things that really don't matter. The purpose of meals is to provide nutrition. Best way to do that is to give them food they like to eat, not turn it into a battle of wills.
He told me that if you get into a battle of wills with a child, you’ve already lost.
Agreed. On similar lines, my wife and I have always followed the approach of 'pick your battles'. At the end of the day, does anyone want every mealtime to be a fight? When our kids were younger, we would encourage them to eat (or at least try) everything on their plate but we never went down the route of giving them the same food later in the night if they said they were hungry after not eating it all – but they wouldn't get anything in the way of a treat - just fruit, yogurt, cheese, toast or other such simple things to take the edge off their hunger. Are they fussy eaters now (aged 13)? Yes, a bit, but they do eat a balanced diet, are open to eating new things and I don't really care that we sometimes make more than one meal – it is now becoming inevitable as one child is almost entirely vegetarian and we now have a foster child who has his own special requirements. In the grand scheme of things, it all doesn't really matter.
TBH, I get a million times more frustrated at bad table manners than I do at a child deciding they don't want to eat all of their corn on the cob after all.
Never offer a substitute. The goal isn’t they eat this meal, or the next dinner, they need to build a long term pattern of eating what they are offered. If they’re hungry before bed if they’ve refused dinner, only offer the same dinner again. Put them to bed hungry if necessary.
Offer 3 – 5 food items, make at least one a favourite. Don’t force them to finish anything. It can take 6 meals of offering something before the toddler will try it, so don’t give up.
Many toddlers like the food cut up small and little on the plate. A full plate can look intimating. Our daughter has flat out refused to eat something until we cut it up small, but she won’t always say that’s the reason.
Don’t react, either positive or negative. You can do things like ask, ‘Do you think the carrot is crunchy or soft?’. Food is just food, it shouldn’t have a reward or punishment. If they refuse to sit down to eat, remind them every 10 minute and no more often.
If you offer a sweet/desert, serve it with all the food at the start. They may eat it first, but they are more likely to eat other items if they don’t have to wait for a ‘reward food’.
This is almost exactly what we've settled on by trial and error.
Some people are reading this thread way too literally! No one is starving in our house. There's no force feeding, no drama and I'm fairly sure he won't need to visit a therapist to cure him of fishphobia or anything.
It's just that his mother is way more likely to give in to his tantrums and he knows it. It took us a while to stick to our guns and be consistent.
He's sitting here now stuffing his face with yesterday's curry and loving it. Yesterday it went on the floor in a rage. Mum isn't here to negotiate with him today so he's perfectly pleasant.
Thanks again for the suggestions
Last night he cooked popcorn and ate some while dinner was on the way, ate some dinner, ate some yogurt, and repeated that a couple of times.
All fine.
Normally we cook one day and have the same thing reheated the next day.
Another approach that can work (apologies if it has been mentioned already) is to give them a choice (ie, 'we were going to have X or Y for dinner – which would you like'?). That way, they are invested in it as they made the choice themselves and are more likely to then eat it.
I really do not see the point of trying to force a kid to eat something they don’t like. Serious question, what good do you think that would do?
Depends – if the child has decided they don't like any vegetables then it would be an obvious issue so sometimes enthusiastic encouragement (force is a strong word) is needed.
BTW, have you tried the Annabel Karmel recipe books at all OP? They have some great toddler-friendly stuff in there.
Not read all the responses. But my thoughts
Kids are not daft, even at that age. You and the Mrs have to agree approach and agree on that approach, or the kid will see straight through you both and push boundaries as they know Mum will give a nicer dinner than Dad.
Its catch 22. We agreed approach and sometimes that meant not feeding Jnr FD, which then meant an 1hr of heart ache as Jnr FD would be grizzly from not eating.
We tried to find the stuff he would eat (so long as healthy) and maybe blend in to the food stuff he wouldnt want to eat. At aged 13 we still do that at times !
Try and get them eating around other kids. Some of our friends kids were eating veg that our son wouldnt eat. Having peers around seamed to help on that one if that was the food on offer, no grumbling just ate it. Maybe more pressure when home but more acceptance.
BTW, have you tried the Annabel Karmel recipe books at all OP?
Very good point. They got us through the early years with some success
We tried to find the stuff he would eat (so long as healthy) and maybe blend in to the food stuff he wouldnt want to eat.
What's the point of trying to make a kid eat something they don't want to eat? They need a balanced diet, for sure. They need some vegetables and fruit, but as long as they eat a banana or apple or something everyday and drink some juice, they aren't going to get scurvy. They need some protein, so chicken, pork, beef, or fish are easy choices to offer. Some dairy too, so milk, cheese, icecream, etc. Plus some carbs, so pasta, potatoes, bread, etc. As long as they're eating a variety of different foods, it's not necessary that they eat every single thing you put in front of them. Forcing them to eat something they don't like is unlikely to make them like it.
late to the thread and it may have been said already, but especially on nursery days mine didn't eat big evening meals at that age, the nurseries are full-on activity (physical and mental) and they shovel calories in them, which is what kids need at that age.
Easy to say it now I'm out the other end !
Another ARFID sufferer here, and while I wish it had been recognised earlier I'm not sure how I'd have presented differently at that age to the average toddler. I guess one thing would be the clear differentiation between 'safe' and 'unsafe' food - the example of refusing something one day and then eating it the next absolutely would not apply to me. Once I'd shifted something from the 'safe' to 'unsafe' list then that was final and there was rigid adherence to those, but I doubt that would even in the awareness of most parents who are just trying to get their kid to eat something.
Likewise 'they'll eat it when they're hungry' - I remember things like picking the tiny bits of mince out of a lasagne (the mince was the only 'safe' thing on my plate) and then sitting in a face off with my dad over a cold and congealing plate as the kitchen clock ticked its way through the afternoon. Repeat for a multitude of things my mum had cooked, mains and puds, even if she'd changed the ingredients on something I'd eaten before. With hindsight that wasn't a great strategy for them to use as it just reinforced the role of food, and my determination to stick to my rules - perhaps a more lenient approach might have worked. I've picked up the term 'scientific eating' in my attempts to deal with this - approaching food as an experiment to assess smell, touch, mouth feel, flavour, to dissect it and see what's what. I still need to be in the right mindset to even consider that so I'm not sure how that would work with the 3 year old me. Perhaps the question above about 'do you think the carrot is crunchy or soft' are along the same lines but for me, if the food in question was on the "unsafe" list then there is a huge difficulty to even contemplate the act of putting it in my mouth.
I'd agree that making it less of an issue overall might help - for me I think (well, me and the professionals I've spoken to think) that it came about about from trying to have some control in a situation that I wasn't controlling so reducing that aspect of it may have helped me, offering some simple alternatives or even a choice of dinner up front.
I guess the upside is that I started cooking at a fairly early age as that was the only way I could make sure that I would get something I could eat, so it took the stress off them when I cooked a meal for the family.
sitting in a face off with my dad over a cold and congealing plate
dunno why I'm commenting as I'm decades past this but this does bring it back - you've got to avoid getting drawn into a psychodrama with your kids (at any age - if it's difficult not to with babies it's really difficult not to with teenagers). It's rarely going to play out well and is hard on both of you. Anyway, plenty of good advice above.
