Especially when drunk and after physically kicking the fork lift. According to my risk assessment
I concur.
Limited disagreement with this verdict but for anyone who does disagree, see my question to DrJ on page 1 - what would YOU have done in the circumstances?
The oiks/chavs deserved what they got.
The farmer was acquitted.
The end.
I have to say when I first saw this video a few weeks back I was pretty shocked by the farmers actions and felt he ought to be prosecuted, but I don’t feel that way now. I think there is still an argument he acted disproportionately, but we have no real idea of what transpired beforehand. The people who acquitted him presumably did.
I also think it was probably a pretty upsetting incident for him. I doubt he feels as gung ho about it as some of those applauding his actions, especially as you’re pretty vulnerable on a farm to theft or vandalism…
Chinny-reck-on
Oh Jimmy Hill
But yes, I’m with the farmer on this one… just in case anyone is counting votes.
Firstly, that telehandler probably won't even have 100bhp, more like 60bhp.
Secondly, fully understand the frustration of rude people parking in front of very obvious access and it has only increased the last couple of years.
I was once spotted by the police eyeing up a car for a solid tow point to move it with the forestry winch on the tractor. Their only request was to not do it whilst they were watching.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike...
I'd imagine, if it wasn't for the video it wouldn't get as far as court.
A business near me has, on a regular basis shifted cars not particularly carefully with forklifts, when folks have parked in the way to avoid paying for parking at the football ground.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Do you often punch farmers?
Do you often punch farmers?
Only if they keep a tally of cyclists they've knocked over on the side of their telehandler.
Farmer: I need access. you need to move it.
Chav lad : no. Blah blah blah. What you gonna do about it?
Farmer: either you move it or I will.
Chav lad: oh ****.
Big difference between him getting in the way of a massive bit of machinery and purposely nudging a sitting protester, especially with the parking sensors screaming at you.
I'm with the Farmer on this one.
It should be remembered that the jury will have based their decision on all the evidence provided to them, not simply that Guardian article.
Exactly, with the facts around the situation and acts of the people in the car.
I don't think the farmer should have done what he did and I am sure if I parked my car there and he came and talked to me about it, it would not have ended in the same way AT ALL.
He should have phoned the police as he had been assaulted and had people parked on his drive.
I'm not with the farmer on this one. He took the law into his own hands and it was just luck the yob wasnt killed. Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
A self defence plea only applies if they are coming at you and you cannot escape, or if they've entered your home are there with you, and you are in fear of your life
Step outside the safety of your home and you become an aggressor. The farmer went back, ignored the phone, didnt call the police but armed himself with a dangerous weapon, a telehandler, which he proceeded to wield as though it were a weapon.
He was assaulted and became enraged.
What did you think the police were going to do? The car blocking access is a civil matter, they wouldn't be interested, as for the assault, they might have attended, probably not, and the car was still blocking his drive.
This is actually likely to get worse if the government push forward with the parking bill, they are proposing to halve the PCN value which will make legal enforcement commercial unviable. A lot of smaller car parks, pubs for example in beauty spots wont have any controlled way of managinb yhe parking so we will see an increase of people being blocked in, cars moved by force or disabled. People may not like the private parking companies but at least they allow you to drive away and you have multiple chances to appeal, your car isn't being held for ransom.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Don't break Rule#1 and I reckon you won't have a problem.
I’m not with the farmer on this one. He took the law into his own hands...
You've misunderstood a lot of law thete, which was explained to the jury along with ALL the evidence. And which rather misses the point that the law has backed him up. Yes, it could have gone wrong but that's just Internet whatabouttery. The lad could have pulled a knife and we'd have been watching a video of him stabbing the farmer, but he didn't.
And I get the impression that the farmer may not do the same thing, with hindsight.
Had the youth not previously attacked him and had he not continued to try and attack him in the telehandler - I'd be willing to bet that the farmers intention was simply to move the car, not to flip it/smash it up. In the end he seemed somewhat forced into a rushed job. That telehandler could've easily just picked it up between the wheels and moved it elsewhere without seriously damaging it and I'd guess the farmer is a dab hand at using it.
What did you think the police were going to do?
As you have just been assaulted and the person who assaulted you is still there then I would expect the police to come out and deal with it.
Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
But neither of those things happened so it's pointless talking about them.
armed himself with a dangerous weapon, a telehandler
You arm yourself with a dangerous weapon every time you get on your bike.
He used a suitable tool to remove an illegally parked vehicle that was access to his property.
In what was did tipping the yob’s car over serve as self defence? If the farmer had stabbed him with a pitch fork it would make more sense.
Good job by the farmer 🙂
Again people missing the point, tipping the car was not self defence, he was charged with criminal damage and dangerous driving. The jury obviously felt removing the car was a reasonable act and not one of the offences. The most serious offence here which wasn't prosecuted was the assault on the farmer by the yobs.
Keeley, would be nice if they did respond but you really can't rely on the police coming to your aid and even if they do with clear evidence they won't do much and the car on the drive is a civil issue so nothing they could do. Calling the police would have been pretty self defeating in this case, the police are no longer there for this sort of community support.
I am not with the farmer, I am with the jury.
I don't know if the farmer acted reasonably under the circumstances, I wasn't there and I haven't seen or heard all the evidence. However in all probability imo the jury acted reasonably in their verdict.
Unlike all the parties involved in the incident the jury's decision will have been made in a calm and reflective manner.
What did you think the police were going to do? The car blocking access is a civil matter, they wouldn’t be interested
Exactly. Although there is probably a case to be made for changes in the law imo.
In what was did tipping the yob’s car over serve as self defence? If the farmer had stabbed him with a pitch fork it would make more sense.
The farmer was removing an obstruction to access the road.
The driver could have moved it. Double puncture or not.
The only issue I see is operating the farm machinery with an albeit drunk pedestrian in close proximity.
I'd imagine the court decided that the lad put himself in harm's way and wasn't injured.
As you have just been assaulted and the person who assaulted you is still there then I would expect the police to come out and deal with it.
LOLs to that. My son and three mates were assaulted by a group of 15 kids before Christmas. He was pushed about and his mate was gubbed twice fairly substantially. The police know who did it, have multiple witnesses and have done absolutely **** all.
That telehandler could’ve easily just picked it up between the wheels and moved it elsewhere without seriously damaging it and I’d guess the farmer is a dab hand at using it.
Doubt it, the forks are far too short to lift it axially and if there was enough room to get in from the side then there was enough room to drive by.
Looking forward to bumping into aggro farmers emboldened by this decision whilst out on the bike…
Don’t break Rule#1 and I reckon you won’t have a problem.
You think? Been here long enough and heard enough stories to know you just have to be pushing a bike to get hassle. If they were to block you and then you 'barged' through them would they take the right to 'defend' themselves?
Had those forks struck him on the head the result could well have been fatal.
But neither of those things happened so it’s pointless talking about them.
Interesting, so next time one of us gets close passed does that make it okay as long as nobody gets hurt?
I realise context is everything but when you're handling industrial machinery there are no second chances.
I also realise the jury will have been instructed to take all this into account but it's still a fair point, that could have gone very badly wrong.
In truth though the number of people who do get hassle just for pushing a bike is pretty small, and I can’t really see it getting worse just because of this incident.
Close passing and the publics attitude to cyclists is indeed a problem, but I don’t really see what this incident has to do with that. The lads weren’t cyclists, and they were (from all accounts) behaving like complete ****s. I suspect there was quite a bit of adrenaline flowing at the time, and I’m not convinced it was the farmers intention to roll the car over. Had it just been picked up, with resulting damage to the exhaust, chassis or whatever, and deposited on the verge, would we still be talking about it? Not sure, but the dramatic pictures certainly raised the profile of this incident.
I don’t actually condone what he did. This incident could have ended very badly, but I’m pretty relaxed about the acquittal.
You think? Been here long enough and heard enough stories to know you just have to be pushing a bike to get hassle.
I’ve been here long enough to know out of 20 years I’ve been here, the thousands of members all those miles covered across the whole of the UK in that time it’s a tiny proportion. I also know that being asked politely to move your car the answer is not to punch someone.
... assuming he asked politely, of course.
assuming he asked politely, of course.
Of course but the jury decided he may have. Not sure punching him in the face helped regardless.
Don’t break Rule#1 and I reckon you won’t have a problem.
Dunno, farmers are as varied in their temperament as the rest of humanity, some will doubtless feel a bit emboldened to 'assert themselves more vigorously' off the back of this ruling, doesn't mean it was the wrong result though...
The farmer was within his rights to move their car, and arguably with less care than he might otherwise have due to the ongoing threats and violent behaviour being shown...
TBH those scrotes were lucky they whipped the iPhones out and started recording. Otherwise the police find themselves attending an upsidedown corsa on a country lane, two pissed, shirtless chavs jabbering about a telehandler, and a farmer claiming no knowledge of any such events, if that were the case someone's license is being taken and no farmers are going to court...
Another excellent example of why we should cherish our jury system.
Keeley, would be nice if they did respond but you really can’t rely on the police coming to your aid
You can't rely on it no, but you should try that as first course of action. Should you deal with all criminal activity yourself and never call the police as they may not come/be interested?
I have had to call them a few times and they always came round very quickly and took it seriously, maybe I was lucky.
Close passing and the publics attitude to cyclists is indeed a problem, but I don’t really see what this incident has to do with that.
The incident itself? Nothing. But the sentiment behind the statement I was responding to? Everything.
I’ve been here long enough to know out of 20 years I’ve been here, the thousands of members all those miles covered across the whole of the UK in that time it’s a tiny proportion. I also know that being asked politely to move your car the answer is not to punch someone.
Again, look at the comment I was replying to rather than taking my quote in isolation. Cookeaa was on the money.
Both fair points. I wonder what this result will do to their claims for compensation? 😀
Again, look at the comment I was replying to rather than taking my quote in isolation
I did.
You shouldnt even have to ask for some one to shift their car, let alone politely. All this "what if?" is typical STW twaddle. Nothing happened do there can be no "What if?"
I did.
So are you going to respond to my point rather than the specifics of this incident?
All this “what if?” is typical STW twaddle. Nothing happened do there can be no “What if?”
I'll remember to use this quote next time someone is complaining about a close pass. I wonder how that will be received?
Note: I'm not commenting on this incident but the sentiment behind the statements folk are coming out with.
Apparently he asked them to move a few times first and their response was to punch him in the face, ...
I guess the new way of communication is to punch people in the face? LOL!
Great decision and well done to the farmer.
Taking law into own hands? Why not? Farmer was just removing the car after being punched in the face. It is just a car. i.e. farmer was just removing an object.
A close pass affecting someone going about their lawful business is not the same as a situation where a drunk puts himself in a danger by deliberately getting close to a moving vehicle and repeatedly kicking it.
Take whatever sentiment you want out of that.
So are you going to respond to my point rather than the specifics of this incident?
I did that too.
It's his private farmland. There's no problem with what he did? He's just moving an object that's in the way of his access. The only issue is that he dumped the object on a public highway, he could/should have just rolled it further into his land off his road and locked the gate. Then called the police to remove the trespasser
@flannol - one big problem with that, is that the police won’t turn up to remove a trespasser from private land, and nobody will turn out to remove the vehicle either. Scumbags who flytip heaps of trash in fields and gateways do so in the knowledge that there’s seldom any significant chance that they will be identified, and the farmer or landowner has to foot the bill for its removal. That’s a fact.
Those little shitbags got exactly what they deserve, and I’m 100% behind what the farmer did, including where he dumped the car. All around where I live there are gateways into fields that have been blocked off with tree trunks to stop people from driving in and dumping trash, there’s an infamous traveller site next to the railway near where my mate lives, with gates leading to a large railway maintenance yard, and it’s a regular occurrence to see huge piles of tree trimmings dumped outside the gates, and in nearby field entrances.
Who clears up the trash? The landowner, at considerable cost.
Who clears up the trash? The landowner, at considerable cost.
On or close to the highway (gateways) the local council should be doing that (it is or was the system in Suffolk) which makes it a community cost.
On or close to the highway (gateways) the local council should be doing that (it is or was the system in Suffolk) which makes it a community cost.
Seems to be, I reported a load of flytipped cannabis farming leftovers (old plants, lamps, fans and so on, some in black bags) the council cleared everything off the verge but left all the shite stuck in the hedge and just over it into the field. I'm sure they have their instructions but it struck me as a bit jobsworthy.
All this piffle about close passes is irrelevant.
Nothing gets done about close passes when there is no injury, but we are still entitled to be annoyed.
