MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
most western democracies fully support both Israel’s right to exist and its right to self defence.
Sorry you have suddenly completely changed the issue being discussed.
We were discussing your comparison between Palestine and Northern Ireland. I pointed out that it was absurd to make such a comparison and listed some glaring and obvious differences, all based on actual facts.
Which points are you disputing....... Palestinians haven't been driven from their homes? There aren't millions of Palestinian refugees? Israel doesn't operate a system of institutionalized segregation and discrimination? Palestinians are not regularly slaughtered in their thousands? What claims have I made which you consider are not true?
Nah…..I’m not going to bother refuting such a warped sense of reality
He’s took his time
William Dalrymple
I have always resisted calling the Israeli assault on the Palestinians of Gaza a genocide. But seeing the wanton cruelty, inhumanity and sheer evil displayed in this clip against innocent civilians its now increasingly difficult to call it anything else.
https://twitter.com/dalrymplewill/status/1847356045422973163?s=12&t=27Xz8oI3pGlaNEQvowJBcg
Palestine: International law obliges Israel to end occupation, says rights panel
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1155861
"States must not render aid or assistance in maintaining the unlawful occupation, which includes financial, military and political aid or support"
It is interesting that the United Nations has defined "political support" for Israel's unlawful occupation of Palestine illegal under international law.
Presumably "political support" includes supporting the action that Israel takes against Palestine resistance in illegally occupied territories.
I wonder how much the UK courts can be used to implement international law?
I wonder how much the UK courts can be used to implement international law?
Aah, Ernie, Ernie, so naive :-). Your faith in institutions always reminds me of Stalin's response to the Pope's criticism of his treatment of Catholics. "How many divisions does the Pope have?"
What do you know of my faith in "institutions"?
I have little doubt that the 30 arms export licences for Israel which David Lammy announced would not be permitted had very little to do with any moral considerations and everything to do with legal considerations.
The fact that so few export licences were cancelled gives every indication that it was considered the bare minimum to comply with UK law.
Otherwise why do you think that David Lammy, a member of Labour Friends of Israel and someone who receives funding from Israeli backers, stopped 30 arms export licences? Because he was morally concerned? How naive are you?!?
The fact that so few export licences were cancelled gives every indication that it was considered the bare minimum to comply with UK law.
Or maybe it's because if we cancelled them all we couldn't get the F35 aircraft that the RAF and RN use jointly and have more on order
According to the Campaign Against Arms Trade the UK produces 15% of an F35. What's the point of a UK-produced F35 ejector seat if we can't get the other twelthty billion parts that surround it because final assembly in the US has stopped?
Or maybe it’s because if we cancelled them all
My question was why were 30 export licences cancelled? Or in other words why were "any" arms export licences to Israel cancelled?
The most likely explanation imo was that the UK government received legal advice that they should do so.
I really struggle to believe that it had anything to do with any moral concerns about UK arms being used by the Israelis in illegally occupied territories.
What do you know of my faith in “institutions”?
Steady on, keep your knickers on. My comment was light hearted. But since you ask you frequently mention UN declarations, international law rulings and the like, despite the blindingly obvious evidence that they mean nothing to the psychopaths in Israel.
My question was why were 30 export licences cancelled? Or in other words why were “any” arms export licences to Israel cancelled?
A sop to the more principled members of the Labour Party, knowing full well that it will have the square root of bugger all impact.
A sop to the more principled members of the Labour Party
Oh how naive you are! You actually genuinely believe that Starmer and Lammy give a monkeys about "the more principled members of the Labour Party"?!?
And far from placating those in the Labour Party who are appalled by the British arms industry being used to slaughter Palestinians there is every indication that all it has done is increased the demand for a full arms ban.
Once you claim that you are denying 30 arms export licences because of moral considerations it becomes much harder to justify the other 320 arms export licences that have been granted to Israel.
The more you think about it the more it should become apparent that the primary reason was legal considerations. It is an undisputed fact that the current and previous UK governments received legal advice which clearly stated the limitations of arms exports to Israel.
It is interesting that the United Nations has defined “political support” for Israel’s unlawful occupation of Palestine illegal under international law.
And what have the UN done since the beginning, lots of tough words, no action, you talk as if the UN and UNHCR have any power in this scenario, when reality is the opposite of that.
My question was why were 30 export licences cancelled? Or in other words why were “any” arms export licences to Israel cancelled?
It was stated that these were cancelled as they could be used in an offensive way, the rest were defensive or infrastructure or similar, the UK produce next to nothing these days, we do not own bomb or missile making facilities, that's done in France, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany and so on, the US, Germany and Italy provide pretty much all the imports of offensive weapons, the licenses we suspended, well they can get the same or similar from other countries anyway, it was basically just a political statement to suspend them, all the likes of Thales, or whoever builds those components in the UK will do is just send them to their European manufacturers, it's all build to print these days anyway, same with F35
you talk as if the UN and UNHCR have any power in this scenario
I talk as someone who is aware that the UN and its condemnation of any illegal behaviour can have a profound effect on global public opinion, which in turn puts added pressure on national governments.
It is an awareness which is shared with people like Netanyahu who is outspoken in his criticism of the United Nations, publicly denouncing it for allegedly being the mouthpiece of Hamas to being anti-semitic and racist.
There is a reason why Netanyahu despises the United Nations so intensely, and it isn't because he sees it as an inconsequential organisation. Obviously.
I talk as someone who is aware that the UN and its condemnation of any illegal behaviour can have a profound effect on global public opinion, which in turn puts added pressure on national governments.
Well Netanyahu responded to Biden's requests by (essentially) telling him to go f himself, so I don't see the PM of Barbados having much influence on the orgy of murder and destruction.
I am quite calm thanks somafunk. Despite being aware of the limitations of the UN I am not dismissive of the very important role it has to play.
Being dismissive of the UN simply plays into the hands of Netanyahu and his far-right government imo.
If DrJ wants to express distain for the role of the UN, as he regularly does, then that is obviously his prerogative. And I am entitled to suggest a different opinion which recognises the vital role the UN has to play - both in putting pressure on national governments and helping to influence global public opinion.
Being dismissive of the UN simply plays into the hands of Netanyahu and his far-right government imo.
If DrJ wants to express distain for the role of the UN, as he regularly does, then that is obviously his prerogative. And I am entitled to suggest a different opinion which recognises the vital role the UN has to play – both in putting pressure on national governments and helping to influence global public opinion.
I'm not sure that decision makers in Israel are checking in on STW before launching the next bombing mission, so i feel safe in expressing my opinion here. As for the UN, I am not disdainful. I appreciate that they do the very best they can, and via UNRWA etc they have helped enormously. However, global public opinion doesn't butter any parsnips in Tel Aviv, and national governments are powerless to overcome the US veto, so the end product of speeches and votes and declarations is precisely zilch.
As above, when the UN have the big countries on their side, they can do good, but this scenario has shown they have no ability to do anything when overruled by the US.
As for the US starting to back off Israel, why do you think Israel are bringing Iran into it, they know the second that Iran participate in any way, the US and others are supporting Israel even more.
I’m not sure that decision makers in Israel are checking in on STW
I think you'll find pro-israel on many forums and social media trying to press their point of view.Same with Russia on you tube vid comments
Recent signing on here, full member and only a single post since joining pushing Israel as the one thats hard done by.
Odd first post by anyone, not even an introduction or something about bikes. Straight into politics. Something we've seen before, though usually on free membership.
Normally I when i hear something posted that is perhaps against the general consensus of the thread look to see if a free member, and if full membership usually go no further.
Comparisons with Northern Ireland are bollocks.
It's like comparing having your shed broken into and some stuff nicked with having your house razed to the ground, your older relatives shot out front, your kids given a kicking and taken into 'care' and being forced to live in a tent indefinitely.
Sure us English have a long history of being bastards in Ireland, but it us child's play compared to Israel's actions with regards to Palestinians.
so i feel safe in expressing my opinion here.
Of course you are, and I am glad that you do. It would not be much of a forum debate if everyone expressed the same opinions.
As for the role of the United Nations I can only reiterate how hugely important it is imo with regards to Palestine. It is the only body which in the current situation can put pressure on both Israel and those governments which support it.
Yes it lacks teeth and Israel ignores it and the United States uses its vetoes to shield it, but it can still put enormous pressure on both Israel and the United States.
It is the vehicle where Israel's war crimes and crimes against humanity are regularly discussed and publicly denounced. Which is hugely damaging for a country which understands the importance of, and invests so much into, hasbara.
Israel is not a self-sustaining country, it relies totally on foreign governments for its very existence, and in turn these foreign governments rely on the support of their voters.
It would be great if there was a more effective way to put pressure on Israel other than via the United Nations, however sadly the UN is the only real instrument at our disposal, along with putting constant pressures on national governments.
national governments are powerless to overcome the US veto
Not really. The United States despises political isolation, which is why it forms grand international coalitions when it decides to attack a country, despite not really needing to in military terms. Having close allies breaking ranks hurts the United States and it undermines its perceived moral authority. US global dominance is not solely reliant on its military strength.
A hypothetical scenario, for your consideration.
Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that Israelis are not psychopathc lunatics, but ordinary people who know right from wrong, but who have been misled by a torrent of evil propaganda, and tricked into participating in a blood-soaked orgy of murder and destruction of the most heinous kind. Suppose that this comes to an end, and as their pants start to dry, they realise that they have done something terrible, something monumental, something that will live forever in history. Suppose that in their remorse (yes, I know, improbable) they feel the need to make amends, and agree at last to the creation of a free Palestinian state.
If, if, if, yes. But if this happened, would the sacrifice of the victims in Gaza have been worth it?
Of course it's not up to us middle-aged IT managers sitting in our comfy living rooms to decide that, but we can have a view.
Discuss.
But if this happened, would the sacrifice of the victims in Gaza have been worth it?
No, Israel (as a whole but not all populace) has shown very little to zero remorse for continual subjugation of Palestinians since 1948, if they haven't realised by now that they fully and openly participate in an apartheid state then there is little hope for those in the future.
You just have to follow the Israeli media channels online and on YouTube to realise that there is no remorse in the greater population for the actions of the Israeli state and IDF.
Sure us English have a long history of being bastards in Ireland, but it us child’s play compared to Israel’s actions with regards to Palestinians.
No, it was just longer ago, “The Famine left hatred behind. Between Ireland and England, the memory of what was done and endured has lain like a sword.”
Horrific airstrike on Beit Lahia camp in north Gaza, more than 70 killed. Don't look at twitter reports as it's just limbs and body parts.
The Irish famine was almost two hundred years ago and the reasons for it ceased to be an issue a very long time ago. In contrast the Gaza famine kicked in a few months ago and the reasons behind it are still very prevalent today, it is an ongoing event.
I can see nothing useful in comparing Gaza today with the Troubles in NI, and even less with Ireland of 1850.
OK, not every Jew is an israeli zionist, though the ones living in israel are well aware of whats happening in their name and are pretty much complicit in it.
But it appears from the zionist point of view, that as far as they are concerned the Palestinian people are little better than animals, which is pretty much how the nazis thought of them.
It was Kissinger that said “Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
I think we can add another 2000 years because of this genocide.
the reasons for it ceased to be an issue a very long time ago.
Thanks for taking the time to explain Irish history and its lasting impact on the Irish to me. I was actually reading some stuff on the link with the Choctaw nation and Ireland before reading this thread, obviously I shouldn’t have bothered as it’s not vaguely important.
I can see nothing useful in comparing Gaza today with the Troubles in NI, and even less with Ireland of 1850
Neither can I.
I can also see nothing useful in allowing some misguided view that British occupation of Ireland; the million or so dead in the famine, the million forced to flee, the hundreds of thousands murdered colonising it and countless other crimes was just some minor annoyance that started in the late 1960’s be alllowed to stand.
This history is why the Irish government and people have been extremely supportive of the Palestinian people.
It was Kissinger that said “Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
I think we can add another 2000 years because of this genocide.
Well there's a classic anti-semitic statement , even if Kissinger did say it, although I suspect that he might have said it in jest.
And no, Jews will not be persecuted for another 2000 years because of this genocide. Jews are not responsible for the current genocide in Gaza, zionists are. And that includes all zionists, including people like Joe Biden and the King of Saudi Arabia.
Suppose, for the sake of discussion, that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics
There is nothing to suppose, Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics. Anymore than Germans were psychopathic lunatics because of the holocaust.
Thanks for taking the time to explain Irish history
How is pointing that the conditions which caused the Irish famine in 1850 no longer exist today "explaining" Irish history? Where does that come from?
It is a simple observation and has nothing at all to do with explaining history.
Likewise pointing out that there is currently a famine going on in Gaza isn't explaining Palestinian history, it is an observation.
Any chance of a half-sensible discussion over what is a truly tragic and horrendous situation?
Well there’s a classic anti-Semitic statement , even if Kissinger did say it, although I suspect that he might have said it in jest.`
Ironic you should think that Earnie, because he also said that "if not for an accident of birth, I(he) would be antisemitic"
Yes I did know about the "if it wasn't for an accident of birth" comment. Kissinger was a deeply unpleasant war criminal, I don't really value his views on anything, whether they are said in jest or not.
But that "there is a reason why Jews have been hated for hundreds of years" and variations of it, is a long established anti-semitic trope which I think the Nazis also used.
https://www.instagram.com/trtworld/reel/DBTrxNRC2r_/
Joe Biden certainly used to be a much better speaker than he is today. And he understood the meaning of the word genocide much better too.
I need to apologise - I had had a few beers and my comment, borne of anger at Israel's current conduct, was poor.
What I was trying to get across was the incomparability of the 30 year 'Troubles' (3-4000 deaths in 30 years) with the current conflict (45,000 dead in a year and a full-scale military invasion of the area).
I was being a **** with how I put it, though. Apologies.
There is nothing to suppose, Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics. Anymore than Germans were psychopathic lunatics because of the holocaust.
In your haste to contradict me, you seem to have got your negatives muddled. Anyway, to be clear, I was not stating that Israelis are or are not psychopathic lunatics. I was defining the parameters of my hypothetical situation.
But the parallel with Germany is interesting. Germans now feel shame over the holocaust and are big supporters of Israel. Will Israelis feel shame over the Gaza genocide and support a Palestinian homeland?
In your haste to contradict me
Actually the reverse is true, I repeatedly re-read what you wrote and kept deciding that it wasn't worth pursuing but then I eventually decided that it probably was because the supposition was that the Israelis are "psychopathic lunatics".
Your "hypothetical situation" supposes that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics. Reality states that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics, and to suggest otherwise is not only false but also dangerous. I agree that I probably made my point badly though.
It is zionism and Israeli apartheid that should be hated and vilified, not the Israeli people. Yes they are the product of a deeply evil and racist system imo but it is the system and the culture that is at fault, they were not born psychopathic lunatics.
Israelis themselves are the product of trauma. I will post a short video by the world's most famous trauma expert, Gabor Mate, in which he explains it better than I ever could.
Gabor Mate is a holocaust survivor whose grandparents were murdered in Auschwitz and who once considered himself a zionist.
Actually the reverse is true, I repeatedly re-read what you wrote and kept deciding that it wasn’t worth pursuing but then I eventually decided that it probably was because the supposition was that the Israelis are “psychopathic lunatics”.
There was no such supposition, as anyone could see from my original post, and as clarified above.
Your “hypothetical situation” supposes that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics.
Now you seem to agree that my supposition was that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics. Must be hard to be you.
Reality states that Israelis are not psychopathic lunatics, and to suggest otherwise is not only false but also dangerous.
Some elements in a hypothetical situation will reflect reality; others will not. The purpose of my post was to consider a circumstance in which the Gaza holocaust might be considered "worth it". Or not.
Joe Biden certainly used to be a much better speaker than he is today. And he understood the meaning of the word genocide much better too.
It's like that joke about "Waldheimer's disease - when you get old and forget you were a Nazi"
You're doing an injustice to psychopathic lunatics, they're certainly not all genocidal fascists. To medicalize a political act is to absolve responsibility.
What, I ask, about the Palestinians who already live in Gaza? What should happen to them? She doesn't miss a beat.
"We should kill them, every last one of them. And if the government won't do that then we should just kick them out. This is our land. And we deserve it."
This is straightforward ethnic cleansing.
If any other country was doing this British politicians would be queuing up to publicly denounce it.
The big question is this:
When is Israel going to invade Bradford because there are Muslims there?
And will the UK get really, really cross this time?
Have they been firing missiles and if so, can they spare any to chuck at Russia?
When is Israel going to invade Bradford because there are Muslims there?
I’m surprised my car hasn’t been struck as a legitimate target by the IDF as it has two cd sized stickers on the rear window that say, “stop the genocide, end apartheid, free Palestine” with the Palestinian colours.
They’re happy enough to strike everything that moves, they don’t even attempt to hide their murderous intent anymore
Due to an unfortunate accident I spent last Sunday night in the A&E department of my local hospital. I had to sit in pain on an uncomfortable seat for a torturous 4 hours before I was finally seen by an A&E doctor at 3am.
The reoccurring thought I had throughout that time was how horrific it would be if the hospital was hit by an American supplied Israeli missile and the carnage that would cause. It made me think how terrifying it must for Palestinian medical staff, and hospital patients already in great physical and emotional pain, to have this constant threat hanging over them.
I have never previously felt that I should be grateful to feel safe and secure in a hospital. It seems such a natural right. And yet Western governments sit back and do nothing whilst a Western colonist regime denies that very right to millions.
It is ironic that whether Britain should apologise for its behaviour during its colonial era is currently a topic of discussion whilst Britain is actively supporting a colonial-settler regime which is ethically cleansing indigenous people off their lands.
I guess in a hundred years time that might be discussions concerning whether an apology for that is necessary.
I’m surprised my car hasn’t been struck as a legitimate target by the IDF as it has two cd sized stickers on the rear window that say, “stop the genocide, end apartheid, free Palestine” with the Palestinian colours.
Don't worry, though.
If the IDF did target your car in the UK, I'm sure the government would send a very strongly worded letter to let them know they're jolly cross about it.
But on a less satirical note, this (from somafunk a week ago):
Netanyahu has had the U.S bent over the table for the entirety of Biden’s presidency and is currently buried up to the hilt whilst spanking the shit out of him, it’s a * joke of Biden’s so called diplomacy on Israel and its genocidal intent, it was clear within the first few weeks what Netanyahu and his goon squad were intending to do with Gaza and the West Bank, now its carried over into Lebanon, Syria, Iran.
Our useless * in government are merely patsy’s of the American administration
Cut them loose, close the door behind us and let them get on with it – the closest we’ve came to a peace agreement and two state solution was scuppered by the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin back in 1995 by a zionist extremist.
There’s no chance of a two state solution for at least a generation
Pretty much sums up my thoughts. I struggle to believe the US and UK governments are still going through the charade of faux condemnation followed by acceptance and doing bugger all with the caveat of "as long as you don't go to position n+1" which the Israelis totally ignore and restart the cycle.
We're on about n+15 of positions that were supposedly 'going too far' and, basically, no one has tried to reign Israel in in any meaningful way.
We might as well let them do what the hell they want without comment. I hope the US and UK are braced for a likely terrorist backlash at some point, though.
Plus bring cases to the International Court like South Africa are trying to do.
If the US/UK did something like that, it would definitely register. 'Our' response so far is pathetic. It is also a clear signal to the likes of Iran that, to be a real player, you need a nuke.
In any case now - Israel will only stop when they think they've killed enough Muslims. That is it.
If the US/UK did something like that, it would definitely register.
Are we still providing direct military support to defend Israel from Iran?
I think you will find that the IDF has been killing Muslims for a lot longer than the last 12 months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Palestinian_territories
And they don't need the excuse of dismantling Hamas to kill innocent Palestinians.
Shocking spike in use of unlawful lethal force by Israeli forces against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank
"With the world’s eyes fixed on Gaza, Israeli forces have over the past four months unleashed a brutal wave of violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank"
Or dismantled the terrorist machinery that led to the 7th October attack.
I'm pretty sure Gaza is dismantled now. Southern Lebanon to follow.
What constitutes 'terrorist machinery' now in any case? A school that has pupils who might go on to be terrorists? A hospital that houses people who might be angered enough by life-changing injuries to pick up a suicide vest?
And what about the hundreds of thousands of new recruits that Israeli actions have created? Kill them all?
Kill them all?
Err yes, haven't you been paying attention?
Meanwhile that useless heap of dung David Lammy has been avoiding anything that looks like action, while agreeing that calling a genocide a "genocide' undermines the special place that the Holocaust must have in all our thoughts.
I hope at least this brings an end to the claims that genocide is just the policy of some right wing extremists and not representative of Israeli politics in the round
I honestly don't know what Israel has to do to get expelled from the United Nations. It carry out missile strikes against UN schools, it uses tanks to attack UN peacekeepers, and it expels the UN from territories that it illegally occupies.
And yet it remains a full member of the United Nations. Whilst Palestine is still denied full membership.
So UNRA is banned from Gaza? With winter near, disease, famine and fighting still ongoing. Utterly incredible.
'The international order is breaking down in Gaza’: UN experts mark one year of genocidal attacks on Palestinians
This is why Israel hates the UN :
"One year later, the promise by Israeli leaders to destroy Gaza has been fulfilled. The Strip is now a wasteland of rubble and human remains, where survivors – men and women, children and the elderly – struggle to hold on to life amid deprivation and disease. Israeli bombs have spared no one – not journalists, students, scholars, doctors, nurses, babies, pregnant women, persons with disabilities, civil servants, people seeking food and safety or humanitarian workers, including UN staff. Entire families have been exterminated and generations erased, with millions of lives torn apart."
They tell the truth.
Following the passing of the first law, Boaz Bismuth, a member of Likud, the architect of the bill, said: “Anyone that behaves like a terrorist has no rights in Israel…. UNRWA equals Hamas, period.”
Taken from CNN reporting here , they’re not even attempting to hide it anymore, they’ve been let off the leash by the U.S. for the past year and are now a rogue state with no accountability to anyone
I just read this, posted by a friend:
May God have mercy on the handsome and polite young martyr Ibrahim, the son of my best friend Dr. Husam Abu Safia, who was murdered by the Israeli army yesterday, breaking his Dad’s heart for the rest of his life. What was the crime committed by Dr. Hussam or his son to having to go through this unprecedented level of brutality?
Dr. Husam is the Director of Kamal Edwan Children’s Hospital in North Gaza that serves over half a million Palestinians, which I personally helped renovate its ER last year, right before the start of the war.
His crime was standing his ground trying to protect the the injured children in the ICU and the premature babies in incubators. Sadly, Dr. Husam could neither save his son Ibrahim nor the premature babies in the incubators. The Israeli army killed his son and destroyed the oxygen tanks of the hospital killing all the babies in their incubators as well as those in the ICU.
I suddenly feel very privileged that I'm on here posting bollocks about the budget as if it's in any way important.
'Waiting to die’: Layla Moran raises plight of NHS surgeon who fears for parents in Gaza
Mohammad also had a message for the government: “I’ve given 20 years of my life to the NHS saving the British public’s lives, which I’m grateful for. Don’t use my tax money to support, in any shape or form, a genocidal government that is killing my own people.”
I just read this, posted by a friend:
Hind Hassan posted about that on Twitter a few days ago, Dr Hassam previously attempted to speak from the the hospital gates to the IDF laying seige but was driven back inside under gunfire, the murder of his 8yr old son by the IDF was to show Dr Hassam that his family are considered a legitimate target - he buried his son in the hospital courtyard
The IDF deserve what's coming to them in The Hague
I have just read about the Palestinian medic who was sent to pick up the body of someone who had been killed in an Israeli airstrike, it wasn't until he got back to the hospital and pulled the sheet back that he discovered it was his own mother.
Gaza really is Hell on Earth.
As someone said on the “woke freezer” thread
There must surely, surely come a point where you think to yourself, “what the actual **** am I doing?”
Gaza really is Hell on Earth.
But some far-right Israeli government supporters intend changing Gaza into some sort of zionist paradise. Presumably once the genocide has been completed and Gaza has been ethnically cleansed :
https://twitter.com/YinonMagal/status/1736376764442526073
The translation from Hebrew is "A house on the beach is not a dream!"
Hamas rejected another ceasefire proposal today:
“Senior Hamas official Taher al-Nunu told Agence France-Press (AFP) that the group rejected the idea of a short-term pause in the fighting mooted by US and Qatari mediators. Mediators had hoped that a short pause would create a window to bring in humanitarian aid to Gaza’s desperate civilian population and to negotiate a permanent ceasefire. “The idea of a temporary pause in the war, only to resume aggression later, is something we have already expressed our position on. Hamas supports a permanent end to the war, not a temporary one,” he said.“
Hamas rejected another ceasefire proposal today:
Hamas insisted on a permanent ceasefire today.
There is no need for a ceasefire for Israel to immediately address the “catastrophic humanitarian situation” in Gaza, according to the United States.
US warns Israel over Gaza aid as deadline nears
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2n4x9dlz7o
The US has given its ally until 12 November to "surge" all assistance, with a minimum of 350 lorries entering Gaza daily. But the UN says only 10% of that number have crossed each day on average since then.
Ms Thomas-Greenfield said the Biden administration had made clear to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that Israel must address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza immediately and that the US “rejects any Israeli efforts to starve Palestinians in Jabalia, or anywhere else”.
"The US has stated clearly that Israel must allow food, medicine and other supplies into all of Gaza - especially the north, and especially as winter sets in - and protect the workers distributing it,” she added.
Ms Thomas-Greenfield also expressed US concern about the two laws adopted by Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, forbidding Israeli state officials from contact with Unrwa and prohibiting Unrwa operations in Israel and annexed East Jerusalem in three months’ time.
US warns Israel over Gaza aid as deadline nears
The israelis will take that deadline to the wire. and only implement it in the last few seconds at midnight on the last day, just so they can maximize the damage it will do to the Palestinian people.