MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Oh no, Israel admitted straight away that they were responsible. The excuse they give is basically the same one as they give when they hit hospitals, UN shelters, schools, etc,...... terrorists were in the location and these terrorists were deliberately using the hospital, schools, and in this case a UN peacekeeping compound, as shields.
You think I'm kidding don't you?
"The Israeli military expressed “deep concern” and said two peacekeepers had been injured by Israeli fire as it was engaging Hezbollah. It said they had been warned hours earlier to take shelter."
I am sure they are really really sorry. Just like they are really really sorry when they strike a hospital or an UN school and kill dozens of children.
UN don't appear to have backed up the IDF's claims that Hezbollah fighters were 50 metres away from UN peacekeepers and that they had opened fire, but then according to Netanyahu and his far-right government the UN is anti-semitic so presumably that is the reason why.
This podcast is a good listen, Ezra Klein Wikipedia link here interviews Ta-Nehisi Coates Wikipedia link here
In his new book of essays, “The Message,” Ta-Nehisi Coates writes about a trip he took to Israel and the West Bank in May 2023. “I felt lied to,” he told me. “I felt lied to by my craft. I felt lied to by major media organizations.”
Coates’s essay is a searing portrait of Palestinian life under Israeli rule. It has also been criticized for leaving much out: Hamas is never mentioned. Nor is Oct. 7. Nor are any of the peace processes. So I asked him on the show to discuss what he saw when he was there and what he chose to leave outside the frame.
Dr Victoria Rose is a Consultant Plastic Surgeon from King's College Hospital who has worked for Medical Aid for Palestine in Gaza during the latest Israeli onslaught. She will be one of the main speakers tomorrow evening at 6pm at a vigil for Gaza outside Crystal Palace Park opposite the Westow House Pub.
This podcast is a good listen, Ezra Klein Wikipedia link here interviews Ta-Nehisi Coates Wikipedia link here
Thanks for the link. Interesting interview and the “bibliography” has some informative articles
But does she condemn Hamas?
Well I have just heard her speak and no she did not condemn Hamas, nor did she condemn the IDF/Israel. She spoke of her experiences as a doctor in Gaza and the desperate humanitarian/medical situation there.
She said that what touched her most was the dedication of Palestinian medical staff who had leave their families behind to deal with the appalling medical crisis. She said that every single medical staff she met had lost loved ones themselves...... partner, child, parent, or sibling.
She did end by condemning the British government for not speaking out against the horrors being committed in Gaza.
Horrific scenes (apparently) of patients in Al Aqsa hospital alive in beds, unable to move, as everything around them is engulfed in flames, after an IDF attack last night.
With the Russian invasion of Ukraine I can understand (in a simple layman's war anyway) what's happening from a military action point of view. But all through the last year I've struggled with the IDFs actions in Gaza. They release statements saying Hamas in location X have been defeated, and then they drop bombs in the same area. Or there's a map showing that the IDF are basically everywhere in Gaza, and then there's an attack, and then they spend 2 weeks clearing through a hospital, then attack it again later on. Or they post videos of themselves rigging a university building or a residential block of flats with demolition charges and then blow it up, why?! If you can safely move around to prep it for demolition then you don't really need to demolish it, surely? I know it's not a war of open territory in the same way as Ukraine but I just can't get my head around it. And if Hamas still has "command centres" in Gaza after all this then the IDF approach clearly isn't working, but they're just going to carry on dropping bombs on refugees in tents and destroying hospitals?
Why? Ethnic cleansing aka 'mowing the lawn' whilst the world looks on and they are actively supported by the USA, UK and Germany.
I nearly put "working" in quote marks because it's not working militarily, but it is in terms of punishing the entire population whole also shifting the window of what's allowed as "defensive" action.
I saw someone else making the point that stuff like this is how you end up with extremists, because every mainstream politician is saying that this is all good actually, and so you feel like there's no legitimate power you can speak to to try to stop any of it. The most you'll get is "Biden pulled a frowny face while signing the order to deliver more 2000lbs bombs". And when people feel like they're witnessing a great injustice that they have no legitimate war of stopping then they're more likely to turn to illegitimate means instead.
With the Russian invasion of Ukraine I can understand (in a simple layman’s war anyway) what’s happening from a military action point of view. But all through the last year I’ve struggled with the IDFs actions in Gaza. They release statements saying Hamas in location X have been defeated, and then they drop bombs in the same area. Or there’s a map showing that the IDF are basically everywhere in Gaza, and then there’s an attack, and then they spend 2 weeks clearing through a hospital, then attack it again later on. Or they post videos of themselves rigging a university building or a residential block of flats with demolition charges and then blow it up, why?! If you can safely move around to prep it for demolition then you don’t really need to demolish it, surely? I know it’s not a war of open territory in the same way as Ukraine but I just can’t get my head around it. And if Hamas still has “command centres” in Gaza after all this then the IDF approach clearly isn’t working, but they’re just going to carry on dropping bombs on refugees in tents and destroying hospitals?
Two main reasons IMO:
Partly (mostly?) what BillMC said, because they aren't just fighting Hamas....
Also I think because they aren't actually doing as well against Hamas as they'd like to, which is why they say "Hamas is defeated in area X!" and then a Hamas guy pops up there so Israel throw another airstrike at the area... and repeat.
I often find myself thinking "WTF are they doing" where there seems to be no strategic gain at all, for example strikes on UNIFIL, I mean why? I find it hard to believe that it's always as simple as "Israel don't care and they're just killing everyone in sight" and think that it must be often either a mistake (but no one believes them) or that there is some reason (but no one believes them. Or knows the real reason). It's almost certainly a complicated situation and a mix of all the above.
Re. UNIFIL though, seeing as there is so much Hezbollah activity in the area it does somewhat beg the question of what exactly UNIFIL's been doing or what the point of them is.
In other news, I find myself waiting for the shoe to drop with Iran... what's going on there?
It's been nearly two weeks and Israel's threatened response is nowhere to be seen. Did they really have no sort of prepared plan already in place for something like this? Is it international pressure trying to get them to lower the response? Politics or military causing the delay? Are they (please) going to give up on the idea and find some other way of saving face?
It's making me tense waiting for the big explosion.
The US have moved a THAAD battery (and the soldiers to man it) to Israel. They only have 7 or 8 in total so are they expecting something and are getting in place to intercept it?
The UN informs Israel that a school will be used for administration of the polio vaccine today, Israel bombs the school saying it was used as a Hamas centre
Perfectly normal behaviour for the genocidal overlords
The UN informs Israel that a school will be used for administration of the polio vaccine today, Israel bombs the school saying it was used as a Hamas centre
That's horrible. Do you have a link? Can't find any info about this.
And can't embed links on twitter but it's reported on UN site
Re. UNIFIL though, seeing as there is so much Hezbollah activity in the area it does somewhat beg the question of what exactly UNIFIL’s been doing or what the point of them is.
None of which, of course, justifies Israel shooting at them.
Israel complaining that others are not abiding by UN resolutions is a walking talking definition of “chutzpah”
"Targeting Hamas" is the new "He fell down the stairs, guv" or "Shot whilst trying to escape".
But, I'm sure it'll all stop soon. Someone has said they're really quite cross about Israel targeting UN peacekeepers. That's bound to make Netanyahu think twice in future.
What I can’t understand is why Iran doesn’t come under more international condemnation for its Hezbolah/Hamas war with Israel. First Gaza and now Lebanon, both destroyed because of the hatred of Israel by Iran’s religious leaders.
Certainly Israel needs to be condemned for its actions. Nothing can excuse the slaughter of innocents, however until Iran stops funding their proxy armies. Israel will continue this decades long war.
Iran is the problem, and perhaps the Israelis should do something about it. I’m not convinced the rest of the Arab world would be too upset if they did.
Iran is the problem, and perhaps the Israelis should do something about it. I’m not convinced the rest of the Arab world would be too upset if they did.
Iran isn't an Arab nation and secondly it is much more powerful militarily than most people probably realise.
This website ranks Iran as the 14th most powerful nation on earth (out of 145) and Israel the 17th most powerful.
The only significant advantage Israel has over Iran is in airpower, in most other aspects Iran has a significant advantage over Israel.
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=iran&country2=israel
The big disadvantage that Israel has is that it is geared to fight quick short wars, in contrast Iran can sustain a long protracted war.
It would be madness for Israel to launch a full-scale war against Iran. And Iran certainly has no interest in engaging Israel directly, it doesn't need to.
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Iran isn’t an Arab nation
Exactly! even more reason why the arab states would see the upside of Iran getting into bother
and secondly it is much more powerful militarily than most people probably realise.
This website ranks Iran as the 14th most powerful nation on earth (out of 145) and Israel the 17th most powerful.
not sure how much this really counts in reality, we've seen what happened to the 'second best army in the world'
The only significant advantage Israel has over Iran is in airpower, in most other aspects Iran has a significant advantage over Israel.
Given where Israel and Iran are on the map (~1000km apart!), airpower is the only thing that counts. The only thing these two can do is lob missiles at each other, and Israel is way ahead both in terms of defense and strike capability.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'full scale war' but there won't be any tanks rolling anywhere.
Israel is committing acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine, not Iran. Israel is trying to drag Iran into their war on Palestinians in a calculated act to garner more support from the US, UK and Germany. No body is forcing these actions onto Israel they are doing these gross crimes against humanity because that is what their regime want to do, not "because Iran".
It appears that Iran is being very patient, despite provocation and don't seem to want full on hostilities to break out, probably due to the death toll that will involve.
we’ve seen what happened to the ‘second best army in the world’
What are we seeing ? A protracted conflict, a war of attrition, with Ukraine appearing to be running short of personnel, to the point they're employing 'press gangs' and rounding up anyone and everyone eligible to join the military.
ahahah Ernies link is laughable, just comparing numbers of 'things' so that a F35 counts same as a soviet Mig29. Safe to discard it entirely.
Justin Bronk at RUSI doesnt seem to think that Israel has much in terms of SEAD/DEAD so even Israel won't be able to conduct air operations at scale over Iran. It'll mostly be long range stuff from them too. I just don't see how this war could expand to much more than we've seen this year.
The only significant advantage Israel has over Iran is in airpower, in most other aspects Iran has a significant advantage over Israel.
This ignores 2 major points, firstly the technological advantage Israel's military has and secondly they can also count on support from the US (not troops on the ground but AWACS, air-to-air refueling, intelligence and advanced weapon systems). That said I don't think Israel wants a protracted war with Iran, they certainly don't want a land war (which would be night on impossible without the US getting directly involved, which they won't). But Israeli can do a lot of damage to Iran's military and economy, it's much more difficult for Iran to do the same to Israel.
I expect Israel's imminent retaliatory strike on Iran will focus on military and maybe political targets so that they can say they showed restraint, if Iran strikes back then the gloves will come off and Israel will hit oil processing and other economic targets and possibly even nuclear refinery/generation targets (though they might save that for any future escalation).
First Gaza and now Lebanon, both destroyed because of the hatred of Israel by Iran’s religious leaders.
Gaza and Lebanon are being destroyed by the ones dropping the bombs. To claim otherwise is counter-factual victim blaming.And to deny Israeli agency, to claim they are helpless pawns in an Iranian plot, seems a bit … antisemitic.
ahahah Ernies link is laughable,
Because it doesn't fit into the preferred narrative that Iran is a weak third world country? There is a reason why the United States and its allies have never attacked Iran, that link helps to explain it.
The neo-con Project for the New American Century during the George W Bush administration era had a clear goal for "full spectrum" global dominance. It started small by attacking and invading Afghanistan, one of the poorest and weakest country in the world. It then moved on to Iraq, a country weakened and on its knees after years of crippling sanctions.
Next on the list was Syria but by then Iraq had gone tits up so rather than Western boots on the ground civil war was fermented leading to a stalemate. Then eventually Afghanistan was lost and by then Project for the New American Century with its goal of full spectrum global dominance had also collapsed. But the ultimate prize was also going to have been Iran.
What the US and other Western countries actually did was to make Iran even more influential in the Middle East than it had previously been - the direct result of the Western strategy of 'kill first, think later'. All the most advanced technology in the world (which helps Israel win short wars) cannot win a war against insurgency. A lesson which the West learnt in Afghanistan and Iraq, and Israel is learning today in Gaza. Trying to ignore that fact and going for bigger stakes, such as taking on a huge and powerful country like Iran, smacks of the desperation of a gambler who has lost everything and doesn't know when to give up.
An interesting article by Israel's former military ombudsman, a man who probably understands Israel's military capability more than most people
They never think for a moment about the day after. They are disconnected from reality and exercise no judgment. And they are propelled by a tailwind from many people who don't understand the situation evolving around them.
Because it doesn’t fit into the preferred narrative that Iran is a weak third world country?
No, because it's methodology is risible. By it's reckoning an airforce of 100 Sopwith Camels would be the same strength as one with 100 F22's. Just embarassing really
it is much more powerful militarily than most people probably realise.
Hmmm, not so sure, on paper it looks pretty formidable, but most of the time it's used for internal repression, and dealing with civilians is a bunch easier than armed and motivated enemy troops. As can be seen in Ukraine, modern warfare is controlled by air forces, and without a doubt the Israeli AF would destroy the Iranian AF in days or [more likely] weeks, if they do that, it really doesn't matter how large Iran's army is. Luckily for everyone, there's too many other countries in between Israel and Iran for it to get to that, and Iran is essentially invasion-proof anyway. Hezbollah on the other hand was 'encouraged' by Iran to send thousands of 'volunteers' to fight for Bashir- Al Assad in his horrific civil war so are both battle-hardened and experienced. The Israeli Army is going (again) to find it pretty tough going in southern Lebanon. Hopefully if there's a stalemate there, it'll force Israel to stop. How long that takes is anyone's guess.
There is a reason why the United States and its allies have never attacked Iran, that link helps to explain it.
Iran has the luck of geography on its side, rather than armed forces that pose any sort of threat. Numbers of things only give you part of the story, On paper Iran's navy has 19 subs vs 5 in the Israeli navy, but the capabilities of each aren't anything like equivalent. As Iraq found out in the 1980's; attacking Iran is very very hard, and the same is true for countries like the US. It would take WW2 levels of commitment to invade it, and that's just not going to happen.
Certainly Israel needs to be condemned for its actions. Nothing can excuse the slaughter of innocents, however until Iran stops funding their proxy armies. Israel will continue this decades long war.
This
It would be madness for Israel to launch a full-scale war against Iran.
I don't think that they will, although there will be further attacks
And Iran certainly has no interest in engaging Israel directly, it doesn’t need to.
and "It appears that Iran is being very patient, despite provocation and don’t seem to want full on hostilities to break out, probably due to the death toll that will involve.
Not "...it doesn't need to", it has to and has done twice this year already. Those were the first two direct attacks on Israel by Iran that I can think of and the reason is that Israel has severely constrained the leadership of its proxy forces, Hamas and Hezbollah. Those organisations are essentially leaderless and Iran has the choice to either step back or show the region (and its proxies) that its goal of removing Israel from the region is important.
Iran doesn't want escalation to war because it risks massive civil unrest that it couldn't then control, but a handful of missile attacks are less of an issue.
It also has a problem in that the head of the IRGC, Esmail Qaani has been in custody for the last week or so accused of giving Israel the information to strike Hamas and Hezbollah leaders. He was seen at a funeral today and so presumably the hunt for informers continues elsewhere
Exactly! even more reason why the arab states would see the upside of Iran getting into bother
Saudi Arabia still considers that Iran was behind the destruction of 50% of its oil production in 2019 at Abqaiq and Khurais in attacks carried out by another proxy, the Houthis
EDIT: The thought of Saudi Arabia and Israel normalising relations was a step too far for Iran
Gaza and Lebanon are being destroyed by the ones dropping the bombs. To claim otherwise is counter-factual victim blaming.And to deny Israeli agency, to claim they are helpless pawns in an Iranian plot, seems a bit … antisemitic.
I don't think that anyone denies that the bombs are being dropped mainly by Israel (with a few Iranian missiles). The denial is that Iran has agency in Israel's continued need to fight
going for bigger stakes, such as taking on a huge and powerful country like Iran, smacks of the desperation of a gambler who has lost everything and doesn’t know when to give up.
If you're talking about Israel then the reasoning is political rather than desperation, striking Iran likely bolsters support for Netanyahu within Israel (and likely approval from quite a few countries behind the scenes, as long as it doesn't impact the price of oil too much). For relatively little risk & cost he can do a lot of damage to Iran, if they were neighbouring countries I don't think Israel would be quite so bullish.
The denial is that Iran has agency in Israel’s continued need to fight
The denial is that Israel needs to fight. As I've said before, if the Palestinian question was solved, nobody would be listening to Iran. As long as Israel continues its war of elimination, there will be volunteers resisting, and those volunteers need Iran's help.
By it’s reckoning an airforce of 100 Sopwith Camels would be the same strength as one with 100 F22’s.
Well the website goes into a bit more detail than that but let's for arguments sake accept that it doesn't provide an accurate comparison, what would you provide as an explanation for the reasons that the United States has never launched military operations against Iran?
When you consider all the excuses and lies used to justify war against Iraq could have easily been replicated to justify an attack on Iran. Iraq never posed any sort of serious threat to US interests in the Middle East, but Iran certainly does. There must surely be a reason that United States seems less than keen of a war with Iran.
Did you read the article in the Haatetz by General Brik and what he sees as the folly of going to war with Iran?
Here is another article by Gen Brik in the Haatetz in which he argues that it isn't Hamas that is collapsing but Israel. As the former military ombudsman for Israel I think it is fair to assume that he has a reasonable grasp on Israel's military capabilities.
Not too long from now we will also be unable to carry out those repeated raids, because with every passing day the Israel Defense Forces grows weaker and the number of dead and wounded in action among our soldiers rises. Hamas, in contrast, has already replenished its ranks with 17- and 18-year-olds.
Gaza has a population of approximately 2 million, Iran has a population of nearly 90 million.
what would you provide as an explanation for the reasons that the United States has never launched military operations against Iran?
Mostly: It's geography.
To invade you need to send in a couple (at least) of Field Corps worth of troops into a battle. In Desert Storm that was 3rd Army directing 7th and 18th Corps. Problem One: which way are they going in?
From the East - ****stan, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan are all out as staging posts. North is the Caspian sea, Russia would probably have something to say about that, so you're left with going from Kuwait - If they let you, and an amphibious landing somewhere on the Persian gulf coast. and the last time the US Army did that in anger was the Korean War. Pretty much all of that has the Zagros Mountains almost all the way to the coast. So you're left with the Hawizeh marshlands - and if you manage to clear those with all your hefty tracked vehicles, you're still faced with the Zagros mountain chain that stretches 1200km in front of you. Let's say you manage to land and defend successfully...
Problem two: You've got to fight your way over 3000-4000m mountains, which are going to be easily defendable. If you want to see what fighting in mountains looks like; Monte Cassino of WW2 and the Guerra Blanca of WW1 will give you a good idea. Let's say you get over that, and you have a clear run through an empty desert to Tehran...
Problem 3 That city sits in the foothills of it's own mountain range, so attacking it will be insanely difficult as Iranian artillery throws things at you from the Alborz mountain range that surrounds it. Plus on the way you have to make sure you've taken and hold onto Isfahan, Kashan and Qom, which are all going to be very heavily defended.
All while maintaining your very extended supply chains across a marshland, two mountain ranges , and a desert.
Good luck with all that.
That's way the US and its allies have never invaded Iran, its ****ing impossible
Good luck with all that.
Is that aimed at Netanyahu? If so I think I'll back the sentiments behind that.
As Gen Brik points out the IDF hasn't even defeated Hamas after a year of trying, expanding the war to directly involve Hezbollah is as much to distract attention away from this failure as it is to draw greater support from the US. But Israel will not defeat Hezbollah. And Iran is simply not going to be invaded because Israel has no realistic chance of defeating it.
Hmmm, not so sure, on paper it looks pretty formidable
And they see themselves as holy warriors, unafraid of death. I know nothing about the military or conducting a war, but I would say that is the very very last type of opponent you want to be facing.
expanding the war to directly involve Hezbollah
Hezbollah expanded the war to include them as an act of "solidarity with the Palestinians" on the 8th October, over a year ago. And they haven’t shown any signs of stopping. The current disproportionate Israeli response has been slow, scarily well planned, brutal, and utterly inhumane.
‘expanding the war to directly confront Hezbollah on its home territory’
Fair. And that includes Syria, not just Lebanon.
That’s way the US and its allies have never invaded Iran, its **** impossible
Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan might disagree.
US suggests military aid to Israel is at risk in letter demanding more aid for Gaza
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/15/politics/us-israel-gaza-humanitarian-situation-letter/index.html
The US’ list of demands is extensive. Israel must allow at least 350 trucks a day to enter Gaza through all four major crossings, the letter says, in addition to opening a fifth crossing.
"We are particularly concerned that recent actions by the Israeli government – including halting commercial imports, denying or impeding nearly 90 percent of humanitarian movements between northern and southern Gaza in September".
Israel seems to be suggesting that the United States government are lying:
Just one day after the letter was sent, COGAT, the Israeli agency that manages policy for the Palestinian territories and the flow of aid into the strip, tweeted photos of aid going into Gaza.
“30 trucks entered northern Gaza through the Erez Crossing earlier today. Israel is not preventing the entry of humanitarian aid, with an emphasis on food, into Gaza,”
Although the US demands appear to be emphatic the 30 days given to Israel to comply suggests that it is connected to the presidential election - Israel repeatedly ignoring Biden isn't doing the Democrats any favours.
Why on earth would Israel need 30 days to stop denying and impending humanitarian movement? Which is what the US government is claiming that it is doing.
Netanyahu has had the U.S bent over the table for the entirety of Biden's presidency and is currently buried up to the hilt whilst spanking the shit out of him, it's a ****ing joke of Biden's so called diplomacy on Israel and its genocidal intent, it was clear within the first few weeks what Netanyahu and his goon squad were intending to do with Gaza and the West Bank, now its carried over into Lebanon, Syria, Iran.
Our useless ****s in government are merely patsy's of the American administration
Cut them loose, close the door behind us and let them get on with it - the closest we've came to a peace agreement and two state solution was scuppered by the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin back in 1995 by a zionist extremist.
There's no chance of a two state solution for at least a generation
Former minister says government should ‘stop wringing its hands’ over Gaza
Kit Malthouse told MPs: “Even if you care little for the tens of thousands of dead Arabs, and the millions displaced. Even if you couldn’t give a damn for the children shot in the head, or the burning hospital inmates in northern Gaza, if your only concern is the security of Israel, can the minister see any argument to say that yet another massacre of Gazans will enhance that security in the future?
What astonishing words from a Tory MP, and published in the Jewish News no less. As Netanyahu's contempt for global opinion grows it would appear that an increasing number of people are starting to realise the huge and lasting damage he is doing to Israel.
Netanyahu's Likud party issues invitation to event titled "Preparing to Settle Gaza"
https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1846590168393789938?s=46&t=qvPR6lBfBXtAWZ-6beFWyA
Social Equality Minister May Golan, along with MKs Tally Gotliv, Osher Shkalim and Hanoch Milwidsky, confirmed to Haaretz that they will attend the event. The invitation also mentions that six other Likud MKs are expected to participate.
The Nachala movement stated that "the event is not just a theoretical conference, but a practical exercise and preparation for renewed settlement in Gaza." The movement added that "the return to settlement in Gaza is no longer just an idea but a process that is already in advanced stages, with government and public support."
According to the movement's announcement, ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir, Bezalel Smotrich, Amichai Eliyahu, and Yitzhak Wasserlauf are also expected to attend the event.
Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention :
"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
The proposition is a straightforward war crime.
The proposition is a straightforward war crime.
I don’t think anyone is in doubt that Israel has committed countless appalling war crimes. The question is “who cares?”, and I think we disagree about the answer to that. In my view it’s “nobody at all”.
So Sinwar is dead.
Saw his name on Twitter trending, clicked only to be greeted with a graphic photo of a chunk of his head missing.
According to this he was killed in a firefight along with two other Hamas fighters, it wasn't a targeted assassination. I am surprised that he came out of the security of Hamas tunnels in daylight with the IDF operating in the area.
No one should be holding their breath, but some new optimism for peace today. Sadly I don't think this will be the end of Hamas, but return of the hostages taken in thr 7th October attacks might get us back on the track for a two state peace process we were on before Iran started the current conflict.
No one should be holding their breath, but some new optimism for peace today. Sadly I don’t think this will be the end of Hamas, but return of the hostages taken in thr 7th October attacks might get us back on the track for a two state peace process we were on before Iran started the current conflict.
I doubt you will have peace. Temporary ceased fire perhaps but that's not long term nor forever. Oppressors can never bring peace to the oppressed .
I doubt you will have peace. Temporary ceased fire perhaps but that’s not long term nor forever. Oppressiors can never bring peace to the oppressed .
Yes, would agree only temporary. But that might give time for cooler heads to prevail in general. On oppression, that's a minority view. Most western democracies continue to fully support Israel's right to self defence, and its action to clear out Hamas' tunnels appear to be what forced Sinwar out in the open today, rather than hiding under schools and hospitals.
but return of the hostages taken in thr 7th October attacks might get us back on the track for a two state peace process we were on before Iran started the current conflict.
That is to put it bluntly optimistic.
I am not sure the claim Iran "started the current conflict" adds up. All the commentary I have seen suggests that it was a small section in Hamas who started it and even then they were surprised about how successful the initial attack was.
If it was Iranian planned then I would have expected a far more coordinated attack rather than, for example, having Hezbollah sitting around for most of the year doing the bare minimum in terms of launching attacks on Israel. If they had launched a full out offensive a few weeks later the claim of everyone dancing to Irans drum would make more sense but as it is the utter lack of coordination over weeks and months makes it rather difficult to believe.
Thats not a tactical failing but a strategic one which is rather harder to explain.
On oppression, that’s a minority view.
Israel is internationally recognised as an occupying and oppressive force in Palestinian territories.
Ex-Tory minister claims ‘something is holding the PM back’ on Palestine recognition
A former Tory minister has demanded to know what is “holding the Prime Minister back” from pushing for recognition of a Palestinian state claiming this is a “prerequisite for peace in the Middle East.”
Kit Malthouse, a former education secretary and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, spoke during Thursday’s business questions session noting what he said was Labour’s election manifesto “pledge to recognise Palestine.”
Surely what is holding back the UK government from recognition of a Palestinian state is waiting for the United States to agree?
Starmer made that clear before the general election:
Starmer to delay recognition of Palestinian state to preserve relationship with US
And I think we can safely assume that the United States is waiting for Israel to approve.
the track for a two state peace process we were on before Iran started the current conflict.
This track to a two state solution, is it in the room with you now? Pure delusion is the most charitable interpretation.
Most western democracies continue to fully support Israel
Governments.... Not the people.
Screw Isreal.
Maybe this idea is worth further consideration https://thehill.com/opinion/international/445879-israeli-palestinian-conflict-can-end-with-the-new-state-solution/
Maybe this idea is worth further consideration
A bigger pile of garbage, it's hard to imagine. Palestinians abandoning the West Bank in favour of a Bantustan in Gaza, which, in case you haven't been following the news, has just been razed to the ground by the comrades of the article's authors. Get real.
Most western democracies continue to fully support Israel’s right to self defence
Possibly, but those who follow the law realise that Israel has no "right to self defence" in the context of territory it militarily occupies.
On oppression, that’s a minority view.
What is Israel going to do about the tens of thousands of teenage boys who will soon turn into fighters after they've watched their families being slaughtered and made homeless? Actually don't answer that, I think we know what Israel is going to do with them.
It would be madness for Israel to launch a full-scale war against Iran.
No, thats the intention, and the US will be jumping in to help. The US has always wanted to unseat Iran as a regional power. And they're probably intending to use israel to help them achieve it.
And it's got sod all to do with humanitarian grounds.
Maybe this idea is worth further consideration
Interesting choice for first post.
Here's everyones favourite Israeli shill, the odious slug in a skin suit David Mencer perfecting the art of deflection
https://twitter.com/EsheruKwaku/status/1847209956841279955
If what is meant by 'support it to exist' a colonial expansionsist apartheid state that systematically commits ethnic cleansing and genocide then no. If it means a democratic secular single state with equal rights for all then yes. 'Two state' bantustans are not a solution as shown by RSA.
Full interview below
An interesting interview here with Israeli journalist Gideon Levy who claims that far from providing the opportunity for some kind of peace Yahya Sinwar's death is likely to have the complete opposite effect and increase Netanyahu's commitment to war.
It is hard to deny that this development is likely to have both boosted Netanyahu's approval ratings and also emboldened him to continue with the military option.
It is hard to deny that this development is likely to have both boosted Netanyahu’s approval ratings and also emboldened him to continue with the military option.
That can't be right - the Israelis love peace, and Netanyahu has only sneaked into power due to some psephological anomaly.
What is Israel going to do about the tens of thousands of teenage boys who will soon turn into fighters after they’ve watched their families being slaughtered and made homeless? Actually don’t answer that, I think we know what Israel is going to do with them.
There were a few in Northern Ireland who wanted their kids to carry on throwing rocks and grow up to bomb shopping centres after the peace process there. Thankfully teenage boys seen pretty good at working out for themselves that they'd rather have a job and a girlfriend then carry on their grandparents bitter disputes.
The decades long struggle of the Palestinian people, their expulsion from homes and lands, their subjugation under an apartheid regime, and their regular mass slaughter, is hardly comparable to the Troubles in NI.
How many people from Northern Ireland have been condemned to live generation after generation in refugee camps?
The decades long struggle of the Palestinian people, their expulsion from homes and lands, their subjugation under an apartheid regime, and their regular mass slaughter, is hardly comparable to the Troubles in NI.
That's your view, and a warped one sided view of the history. Remember the teenage boys of Palestine also remember being told half their school was out of bounds due to Hamas fighters, and they've seen the doctors looking the other way in hospitals as the Al Qussam brigade grabbed water. They remember their parents being as scared of Hamas as Israel's strikes on Hamas, worrying that their sons would be taken into the brigades and their daughters for worse.
Appreciate you're into the struggle rather than peace but I've a more optimistic view of humanity!
That’s your view, and a warped one sided view of the history.
No it is a fact. Palestinians have been expelled from their homes and lands, no one disputes that, how many people in Northern Ireland have been expelled from their homes?
Israel is an apartheid regime:
"Israeli apartheid is a system of institutionalized segregation and discrimination in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories and to a lesser extent in Israel. This system is characterized by near-total physical separation between the Palestinian and the Israeli settler population of the West Bank, as well as the judicial separation that governs both communities, which discriminates against the Palestinians in a wide range of ways. Israel also discriminates against Palestinian refugees in the diaspora and against its own Palestinian citizens"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid
How does that compare with Northern Ireland?
Palestinians are regularly slaughtered by their thousands, that is a fact, how does that compare to Northern Ireland where approximately two thousand civilians died in over 40 years?
There are approximately 7 million Palestinian refugees, 1.5 million living in refugee camps, that is a fact, how does that compare to refugees from Northern Ireland?
There were a lot of injustices in NI which fueled the Troubles, and the appalling and senseless violence, but it is absurd to compare it to Palestine.
Edit: Btw since you brought up Northern Ireland this article explains why the Irish are among the most pro-palestinian people in the world, and certainly in Europe.... not many European countries have experienced colonialism in recent times.
That's your view Ernie, but as noted above, it's a minority one, and most western democracies fully support both Israel's right to exist and its right to self defence.