benosFull Member
If the Gaza Health Ministry statement is true, this is Hamas admitting it uses children as human shields, not just to protect the lives of its fighters but to protect its political leverage.
How dare hamas not hold the hostages in a compound away from everyone else, there’s loads of room in Gaza and I hear there are more tunnels than the London Underground underneath Gaza. God bless the IDF, the most moral army in the world, or so I’m told every time one of their gobshite apologists appear on the screen.
Or just the IDF killing children, again.
Unfortunately nobody cares. As the UNRWA guy said, atrocities have been normalised now. The Israelis kill who they want and nobody bats an eyelid.
How dare hamas not hold the hostages in a compound away from everyone else, there’s loads of room in Gaza and I hear there are more tunnels than the London Underground underneath Gaza. God bless the IDF, the most moral army in the world, or so I’m told every time one of their gobshite apologists appear on the screen.
So commit horrendous violence against civilians, kidnap some and take them back home, then go and hide behind the women and kids in school, university and hospital buildings whilst directing your ongoing indiscriminate attacks from those locations - glossing over the fact that both of these are war crimes themselves, for the exact reason we're seeing - and you should expect to be free from retribution as if you're playing tig at school and you're in "the den"?
As the UNRWA guy said, atrocities have been normalised now.
Indeed. It's gone so far that certain communities actively and publicly celebrate them.
Long long before Oct 7 2023 :
Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: U.N.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE95J0FR/
United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.
RAMALLAH, 4 April 2024 – Nearly 26,000 children – or just over two percent of Gaza’s child population - have been killed or injured in Gaza in six months of a war which has decimated the health system and severed access to education, Save the Children said.
https://www.memri.org/tv/palestinians-gaza-west-bank-celebrate-october-seven-massacre-hand-out-sweets-fire-guns/blockquote >
Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions.[11]and you should expect to be free from retribution as if you’re playing tig at school and you’re in “the den”?
No but the children should surely be free from retribution?
Long long before Oct 7 2023
No one here is defending the IDF use of human shields.
But there are people here who appear to be defending Hamas using shields, either with whataboutery or with actual excuses.
But there are people here who appear to be defending Hamas using shields, either with whataboutery or with actual excuses.
Really? What I see is people defending the Israelis slaughtering children. At this point there is nothing to say, nothing to argue about.
No one here is defending the IDF use of human shields.
But there are people here who appear to be defending Hamas using shields, either with whataboutery or with actual excuses.
I'll refer you again to the poster on today's demo in Central London
Do you not condemn atrocities committed by the Nazis 80 years ago because the allies also committed atrocities?
The dark side of the French Resistance: four graves in the forest
Yet again we hear Israel’s army is the most moral army in the world…….
Yeah right……whatever you say.
Do you not condemn atrocities committed by the Nazis 80 years ago because the allies also committed atrocities?
There it is again: "just asking questions". Or maybe a simple Straw Man: non sequitur into a question about my personal opinion, but pose the question so the implication is that I hold an unforgivable viewpoint despite me never once even hinting that might be the case.
Whatever it is it's occurred on numerous occasions on this thread in response to people posting an opinion that doesn't fall in lockstep with your own. Despite how you might protest otherwise it's a painfully transparent attempt to frame people you disagree with in a particular, negative, light. In this case a suggestion that I'm somehow ok with the Nazis.
I'm not even sure what point you're trying and failing to make. I've never once claimed agreement with the IDF's actions in Gaza - quite the opposite, although I haven't jumped on the forum virtue signalling frenzy - but because I supported the truth of DrJ's post with reports of ordinary Palestinian men, women and children partying in the streets over the October 7th attack somehow I'm... I don't know... something to do with WW2 whataboutery? A closet Nazi sympathiser?
If I had thinner skin I'd probably be offended at the Nazi insinuation, but as it is I'm more concerned that the thought processes you must be dealing with to come up with this nonsense don't really paint a great picture of your current mental state. I clearly wind you up so I guess the least I can do for you is to disengage from your posts in the hope you find some grounding.
Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group
It's not an opinion piece, they're commenting on an Al Jazeera/Mayadeen TV news report. It could be reported in the Daily Star but the facts remain regardless of however much you might not want to hear it: Palestinians were celebrating the October 7th attack, which is a massive weight of evidence in favour of your earlier post.
Palestinians were celebrating the October 7th attack,
What? All of them? Must have been some party! Or is it perhaps just a cherry picked report intended to promote a certain narrative?
If I had thinner skin I’d probably be offended at the Nazi insinuation
And if you had read the thread more diligently you would have realised that my comment regarding atrocities committed by the allies was aimed at benos not you.
Benos was repeating the usual whatabout Hamas this and whatabout Hamas that when Israeli war crimes was being discussed.
But since you seem to have a fixation with accusations of comparisons with the Nazis (you repeatedly mentioned that Nazis despite the fact that I only mentioned them once) here is a speech made in the House of Commons by a Zionist whose family died in the Holocaust and who repeatedly made comparisons between the behaviour of Israeli governments and the Nazis.
It is in my opinion one of the greatest ever speeches made in support of Palestine. And the fact that it was made by someone who was brought up as an Orthodox Jew and Zionist adds to its quality.
I suspect that you won't listen to it as it obviously doesn't fit into your preferred narrative.
Christ, that speech by Gerald Kaufman is incredible!
@ernielynch to respond to the point I think you were making with the poster, what we also saw today were hostages rescued from where they’d been held captive in residential buildings in a refugee camp. The civilians killed in the operation were those Hamas was willing to sacrifice for its aims.
And like Ox, I don’t support Israel’s action in Gaza either. There are enough lessons from history to know how guerrilla warfare against an enemy ruthless enough to sacrifice its own women and children will end. I think the main difference between our views is that I want Israel to exist, while you don’t.
And so to your second point (although tbh I’m not sure what you meant either) I can condemn war crimes and atrocities committed by either side in a war. I wouldn’t try to justify targeting civilians, hostage-taking, or the use of human shields by anyone.
As for whataboutery, look at your posts this afternoon:
Whatabout
Deflect
Accuse
Repeat
My original point wasn’t whataboutery. The IDF went into a residential area and came out with rescued hostages, so there no ambiguity about the nature of the target. By claiming casualties, Hamas admits to war crimes.
And like Ox, I don’t support Israel’s action in Gaza either.
Who the hell does?
Israel's actions in Gaza are utterly indefensible, no one is even going to attempt to support or defend them.
Apart from the occasional half-arsed comment trying to claim that it is Hamas who stealing aid from the Palestinians and that it has nothing to do with Israel deliberately starving them.
Trying to deflect criticism onto Hamas is about as much as can be expected.
Every day brings more bad news for Israel as its international isolation grows.
Colombia will suspend coal exports to Israel over war in Gaza
Israel imports more than 50% of its coal from Colombia, according to the American Journal for Transportation, and uses much of it to feed its power plants.
The civilians killed in the operation were those Hamas was willing to sacrifice for its aims.
And like Ox, I don’t support Israel’s action in Gaza either.
You don’t see any contradiction in these two statements? You say you don’t support Israel’s action but you parrot their depraved justification of slaughter of civilians.
Israel’s actions in Gaza are utterly indefensible, no one is even going to attempt to support or defend them.
Apart from, for example, the President of the USA, and people who actually have power and influence. And the UK PM-in-waiting.
The IDF went into a residential area and came out with rescued hostages, so there no ambiguity about the nature of the target. By claiming casualties, Hamas admits to war crimes.
As you’ve no idea about the location of the casualties in relation to the hostages, the method of injury or the reason why they were targeted (they could just have been targeted as a diversion to distract Hamas guards) you’re pretty much making things up.
'I want Israel to exist' is just wordplay, the subtext being 'I want apartheid Israel to exist'. The only way all this can end is a single secular democratic state where all ethnicities enjoy equal status and opportunities.
a residential area
Too funny. You make it sound like Brookside. And not a squalid overcrowded hellscape where a traumatised population was sheltering. But yeah- blame someone else.
Apart from, for example, the President of the USA, and people who actually have power and influence. And the UK PM-in-waiting.
Yeah but they don't post on STW.
Last year on here there were a few who tried to defend Israel's actions, but 8 months on and with the constant evidence of war crimes, starvation, and 15 thousand dead children, no one is willing to have a go at justifying Israel's actions any more.
The best that they can hope for is to ask whatabout Hamas?
no one is willing to have a go at justifying Israel’s actions any more.
Oh, I dunno …
The civilians killed in the operation were those Hamas was willing to sacrifice for its aims.
IDF soldiers (terrorists to some) are filming themselves burning libraries in Gaza.
Obviously this has nothing whatsoever to do with fighting Hamas but everything to do with eradicating a people's culture and nationhood.
A glimpse into the future of Gaza:
https://twitter.com/BeckyCNN/status/1800548798113992937
This is a must-watch, exclusive report from CNN's Chief International Correspondent. Five years after the defeat of ISIS, more than 50,000 ISIS followers are being held in a constellation of US prisons and camps across Northeast Syria. @clarissaward
gained extraordinary access to some of the facilities. A warning that you may find some of these images disturbing.
I saw that ^^ last week and it is really excellent, unfortunately despite a couple of attempts, and my determination, because it is an hour long I haven't yet been able to watch it all the way through without dozing off!
The picture it paints of the final throes of the zionist experiment is spot on imo.
I have learnt quite a few things since Oct 7 2023 with regards to Palestine and the solidarity movement but one thing which particularly stands for me is how all the very best analysis of the situation in Palestine seems to invariably come from Jews generally but Israeli Jews in particular.
I think it is driven by a couple of things, firstly their deep understanding of Zionism and the Zionist mindset, and secondly the deep passion they feel in their revulsion of gross injustices and crimes committed supposedly in their name, and the appalling use of the Holocaust as a smokescreen.
Gerald Kaufman's speech from the floor of the House of Commons is an excellent example of this.
Daniel Matè makes the point that for a Jew who makes the journey from supporting Zionism, to realising how totally indefensible it is, the process involves going through a 'one-way door'. Once they have gone through that door no Jew ever goes back and embraces Zionism again.
And the commitment of so many Jews supporting justice for Palestine is not at all lost on the Muslim community which is actively involved in the solidarity movement. The above video I first saw posted on a WhatsApp group totally dominated by Muslim members. They fully understand that the struggle is between Palestinians and Zionists, not Palestinians and Jews. My local mosque invited a rabbi to speak a couple of months ago.
I have learnt quite a few things since Oct 7 2023 with regards to Palestine and the solidarity movement but one thing which particularly stands for me is how all the very best analysis of the situation in Palestine seems to invariably come from Jews generally but Israeli Jews in particular.
This interview with Ilan Pappé on the Israel lobby groups is worth a watch and slightly easier to follow,
Lowkey
This is what Twitter is good for, I’ve expanded an intro to it below as it deserves to be read.
This is an excellent report on the war in Gaza by Lee Mordechai Associate professor of History at Hebrew University , he lays out in his report, all 86 pages explaining why Israel is committing a genocide in the Gaza Strip, it’s a long read but very detailed and informative as to exactly what is happening, not just in Gaza but also regarding protests and media complicity. If you don’t wish to read all 86 pages then he roughly summarised it down to 28 tweets in the link.
https://twitter.com/LeeMordechai/status/1803052066652205400
Despite denying it for a long time, the IDF now admits to using Palestinians as human shields.....
Kinda hard to deny when you're caught on film strapping a wounded Palestinian to the front of your armoured truck.
It says "GRAPHIC WARNING", but if you've seen any amount of footage from Gaza this is pretty ****ing harmless.
Remind me again.... Why does Hamas have so many willing recruits?
Counting the dead in Gaza: difficult but essential
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext
In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths. Applying a conservative estimate of four indirect deaths per one direct death to the 37 396 deaths reported, it is not implausible to estimate that up to 186000 or even more deaths could be attributable to the current conflict in Gaza. Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 375 259, this would translate to 7·9% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.
War crime?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/11/israeli-weapons-shrapnel-children-gaza-injured
Israeli-made weapons designed to spray high levels of shrapnel are causing horrific injuries to civilians in Gaza and disproportionately harming children, foreign surgeons who worked in the territory in recent months have told the Guardian.
The doctors say many of the deaths, amputations and life changing wounds to children they have treated came from the firing of missiles and shells – in areas crowded with civilians – packed with additional metal designed to fragment into tiny pieces of shrapnel.
IIRC fragmentation weapons are illegal under international law?
And an Israeli strike on a designated Humanitarian Area in which Israel has been urging civilians to gather - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx0qdkn45eo
War crime?.....IIRC fragmentation weapons are illegal under international law?
Israeli has shown over the previous 8 months that it couldn't give a flying **** what the rest of the world thinks, its about time for the rest of the world to show Israel it couldn't give a flying **** either.
Israeli has shown over the previous 8 months that it couldn’t give a flying * what the rest of the world thinks, its about time for the rest of the world to show Israel it couldn’t give a flying * either.
The rest of the world - the west, at least - has shown that it doesn't give the smallest whiff of intestinal gas what happens to the Palestinians. They are just brown people. Expendable. Compare and contrast with the outpouring of grief and transfer of weapons when a few kids in Kiev are killed by a Russian missile.
