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Furniture restorer solves riddle in iron age cave paintings.

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Great story this.👍 Not a long read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-64162799


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 11:50 am
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I saw that earlier - lovely story!


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 2:02 pm
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oh that is worth a bump.  Especially the 'spent numerous hours on the internet' bit.  I suspect the genius move was the 'In particular, he examined a 'Y' sign on some paintings, which he felt might be a symbol for "giving birth" because it showed one line growing out from another'.    The internet is good for somethings as is ChatGPT and the rest but sometimes you just need that extra spark.

love it


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 6:10 pm
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How did that ever end up in the "news" :o) Must be someone's mate.


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 6:28 pm
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Incredible - well done that man.

Note: These cave paintings are from 20,000 years ago which makes them "stone age" or paleolithic.
Iron age was only 2000 years ago.


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 7:51 pm
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I love the fact that the evidence was there in plain sight but totally overlooked/ misunderstood since modern science became a thing.


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 8:05 pm
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Absolutely.

The published paper is here:

or here if the full link does not work.
https://tinyurl.com/3k7dn4aj

Lots more graphic examples and photos in the published paper.

We demonstrate that when found in close association with images of
animals the line <|> and dot <•> constitute numbers denoting months, and form
constituent parts of a local phenological/meteorological calendar beginning in spring
and recording time from this point in lunar months. We also demonstrate that the
<Y> sign, one of the most frequently occurring signs in Palaeolithic non-figurative art,
has the meaning <To Give Birth>. The position of the <Y> within a sequence of
marks denotes month of parturition, an ordinal representation of number in contrast to
the cardinal representation used in tallies.


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 8:14 pm
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Cracking story. Not the first times experts have needed an amateur to help them out.


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 9:48 pm
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I love the fact that the evidence was there in plain sight but totally overlooked/ misunderstood since modern science became a thing.

I think the thing with these cave paintings is modern eyes have been too easily charmed by the naturalistic drawings to pay attention to the more abstract marks on the walls. We've imagined the figurative stuff to be the clever stuff because we currently perceive naturalistic representations of things to be clever. Its only once people started giving those seemingly random bits of abstraction some attention that it became apparent that same marks we being repeated by communities thousands of miles apart and that actually they were the clever bit- the pictures were decoration but the other marks were communication


 
Posted : 05/01/2023 10:56 pm
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Yeah why is this in the news. Tell me more about the Royal family.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 4:27 am
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We demonstrate that when found in close association with images

We? Anything to declare @stirlingcrispin?


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 9:18 am
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@BlobOnAStick

"We? Anything to declare"

No!

I wish.
I just copied text from the abstract, which gives a lot more information on the marking system.
Apologies - should have made that clearer.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 9:43 am
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@maccruiskeen

the other marks were communication

Yes! Not thought of that.
I am only an interested man on the street who once read a book by Alice Roberts.

Is this the first example of written communication ?


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 9:48 am
 db
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I guess my question was why? Were they recording it for other groups travelling the same way or for members of there own group for future reference. Our ability to record 'knowledge' in books and paintings sets us apart and this was the very start. I think it is wonderful.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 10:06 am
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This moves the history of writing back by about 15k years. Nobel prize winning stuff.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 11:07 am
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Teaching, are these classrooms?

This is properly magical stuff, what a great story.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 11:10 am
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Yeah, really liked that, well done that man.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 11:16 am
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My guess would be recording and teaching knowledge. I wonder if it was because they knew they shouldn't hunt some species at certain times to manage population? Something that continues to this day.

It's a nice story though. Fresh approach/set of eyes changing perspective is always important. Like all good discoveries it seems incredibly simple now it's explained and makes you wonder why it wasn't solved sooner.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 11:24 am
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He's now been given a staring role in a new detective series. He plays a divorced maverick with a drinking problem who supports the police on cold cases. In each episode it takes the police a while to realise his outsider theory was correct all along.


 
Posted : 06/01/2023 11:43 am