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Perhaps the Just Stop Oil-ers should lie down in the road in front of them?
Oil is gonna stop, it’s in decline.
It’s just a matter of time.
If someone feels passionate about it, the absolute best thing they can do is stop using it.
No cars, no buses, no trains, no planes.
Protesting about the price of something you use is . .
I’ll stop there.
oil wont stop.
these protests will do nothing.
if you want to do something stop using all the products you currently use that utilise oil. try removing all plastics from your life for a start. i'd imagine you couldn't get through the week.
LOL. I remember the "dump the pump" idiots from about 20 years ago. Wow I must be getting old. I dumped the pump by cycling to work as usual.
It not just about the cost of personal transport.
The cost of anything you buy is being humped by the cost of oil. From the mfg to the transport.
Cycling to work is part of the solution but if you think that your not using oil day to day your deluded.
Before we get too far into this thread, I would just like to point out that anyone who doesn't live in a cabin in the woods, foraging for food and eschewing modern life in its entirety - indeed, anyone who has the means to read this comment, EVEN IF YOU'RE READING IT ON A PHONE YOU FOUND IN A HEDGE THAT HAPPENED TO BE LOGGED IN TO STW - is somehow a hypocrite and has no business commenting on this topic.
Ta
Can we just be clear, as some posters seem confused - this protest is about making fuel cheaper, nothing to do with banning it/climate.
Seems an odd way to protest...
"I'm going to use some of this thing that I can't afford, as inefficiently as possible. That'll show em..."
I assume priti will be sending in armed police to beat crap out of protestors?
Seems an odd way to protest…
On the face of it yes. But they're inconvinicing people and causing disruption which is an effective way to get your message heard. Whether it makes people sympathise is another question.
Also with the clamp down on the rights to protest by the UK government, if they'd have marched to Westminster and made too much noise they'd have probably been arrested.
Now a constant go-slow between Downing Street and Westminster to inconvinience No 10 and No 11, would be quite funny.
Can we just be clear, as some posters seem confused – this protest is about making fuel cheaper, nothing to do with banning it/climate.
They're intrinsically linked though. If fuel is more expensive, people will use less of it. The less attractive the black stuff looks, the more attractive greener alternatives look.
Much as high fuel prices annoy me, I can't quite bring myself to condemn them as ultimately I think it's beneficial.
Much as high fuel prices annoy me, I can’t quite bring myself to condemn them as ultimately I think it’s beneficial.
Agree but should be tiered for food production and transport.....
if you want to do something stop using all the products you currently use that utilise oil.
Oil is integrated into the economy at a deep systemic level. The only way to avoid using it is to live off grid self-sufficiently or to kill yourself. It's up to governments to do something about the negative impacts of oil use, not the individual. In the meantime everyone has to carry on with life, and the price of fuel is a major hindrance in that. There's no conflict between people protesting the price of fuel and others protesting for less oil use. Both need to happen.
The cost of anything you buy is being humped by the cost of oil. From the mfg to the transport.
the cost of transporting goods really is absolutely tiny. a typical articulated supermarket lorry carries 26 mixed pallets, they're normally loaded with around a tonne of goods each. a lorry does about 10mpg. lets say your average food miles is 1000 (picked that number out of thin air), for a whole lorry's worth (26 tonnes) of stuff that would be 100 gallons of fuel. at £1/litre its £450 and at £2/litre its £900.
now lets start figuring out how much that costs for, say, a jar of sauce. 1 jar of sauce is 1/2kg, so you can stack 2000 on a pallet and 52,000 on a lorry. The total cost of dragging one of them for 1,000 miles is under 1p at £1/litre and under 2p at £2/litre. Those figures reduce significantly when things are produced nearer to home, or packed more efficiently on a lorry, etc etc.
So yes, the cost of fuel does have an impact on inflation, but in a jar of sauce costing £1 you're looking at somewhere in the order of 1%, which is miniscule compared to the 10% overall inflation rate.
But they’re inconvinicing people
Well, I remain inconvinced by them.
If only everything we transported was jars of sauce.
The action is mainly targeting three-lane motorways and is seeing convoys of vehicles driving slowly in two lanes - leaving the "fast" outside lane free.
So, no different to any other day on a UK motorway then?
HGV in lane 1, MLM in a Honda Jazz doing 62mph in lane 2, never leaving lane 2 for 20 miles, leaving lane 3 for everyone else who wants to do 70mph. Pretty standard!
Pretty standard!
Bit optimistic. You missed the Yaris overtaking the Jazz at 63mph.
If fuel is more expensive, people will use less of it.
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
The vid of the protesters I've seen is some classic small minded men who want some form of recognition for whatever their small minds came up with 30 seconds ago.
I’ve not seen any footage, but I presume this is lots of fat, angry red-faced men in tractors again, a la ****ryside Alliance?
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
That doesn't mean it hasn't suppressed usage. Do you think that if fuel was half the price we'd be using exactly the same amount?
the cost of transporting goods really is absolutely tiny
There's also costs in creating it, but I get your point.
Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
But there are other reasons for petrol usage to go up. It might've gone up even more had it been cheaper, in fact I suspect it would have.
IME the Honda Jazz usually sits politely in the slow lane. It's the Ford Kugas and big fat Nissans these days
Re the protests, new Severn bridge is closed due to them.
Despite prices at record highs, people can still be seen in car parks, stationary, with their engines idling for tens of minutes.
On the face of it yes. But they’re inconvinicing people and causing disruption which is an effective way to get your message heard. Whether it makes people sympathise is another question.
I meant that finding a way to cause similar disruption without using fuel would seem more sensible, similar to how Insulate Britian did it (unless that's been outlawed now).
Not really worked like that though has it? Petrol usage and petrol prices have increased year on year.
Fuel duty has remained flat in nominal terms for over a decade. Motoring costs have tended to reduce in real terms over time in recent decades. So, even if all else was equal (it isn't), it wouldn't be a surprise that usage had continued to go up.
I think also notable that while retail fuel price rises have been big, at roundabout 30% over the period we're talking about, say 6 months or so, they have been much less than electricity prices rises as far as I can see (over 100%). And similarly much less in percentage terms than wholesale fossil fuel price increases (accepting this is a much more volatile graph).
The aims of the protest are deluded - we should be using less oil and fuel, so I don't think fuel prices should be reduced for personal use anyway.
As we're currently stuck in a position where we are dependent on oil for food production and delivery, I'd agree that prices need to go down for commercial use. But reducing duty hurts everyone - less income for the government, less to spend on public services (like the public transport you should be using). The protest should focus on reducing the profit for the likes of Shell who made $7.2bn in three months earlier this year after oil prices rose.
I’ve not seen any footage, but I presume this is lots of fat, angry red-faced men in tractors again, a la ****ryside Alliance?
White vans not tractors but otherwise spot on.
Despite prices at record highs, people can still be seen in car parks, stationary, with their engines idling for tens of minutes.
^this, usually while charging their phone because we all know, a car battery has exactly 0.0001% the capacity of a £7 power-bank off Amazon. The price of petrol doesn't put people like this off driving, they just end up with less money in their pocket.
For those looking to shake their heads in despair.
https://twitter.com/ConorGogarty/status/1543842955458396162?t=iyWEdAEEohzhLgNr2_xA4Q&s=19
Seems an odd way to protest…
“I’m going to use some of this thing that I can’t afford, as inefficiently as possible. That’ll show em…”
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their "go-slow" would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
Holding up the traffic? That’s 10 years in prison now. I will be writing to my MP to ensure he demands equal treatment for fuel protestors and EXR
For those looking to shake their heads in despair.
That'll stick it too the man.....go Richard !!! 😉
That reminds me , best go fill up the van before the ****s start blockading the pumps / or the panic buying starts.
This forum is not frequented by many that are really effected by these kinds of rises.
I have a team that I work with - many are on little above minimum wage. Due to the specialised nature of our work* and the remote location many of them have 45-60 min commute (cycling & public transport isn't an option for most, and local housing is both unusual and very expensive).
Some have seen an increase of up to £80 a month in fuel alone for commuting, and for a lot of them, that is their total monthly disposable income. Most are trying to find second jobs.
Please don't assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
*nationally/globally important role in health protection in the south of england - civil service.
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their “go-slow” would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
Yep. These are the people that lose their shit if they're "stuck behind a cyclist" for 3 seconds, they'll complain bitterly at things like Low Traffic Neighbourhoods, 20mph zones etc and how they're forced to use more fuel driving longer distances or more slowly.
And then they go out and do this. 🙄
There was another tweet I saw about a go-slow group pulled over by the police with several of them getting fines for various offences like no tax/insurance/MOT. 😅
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
This 100%. If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they've completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
I can pretty much guarantee that most of the people out protesting in their “go-slow” would have supported the use of force against the people who glued themselves to the M25 at few months ago.
And probably spend a lot of time in the pub swigging on their £3-5 pints 😉
The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
Well we've seen time and time again that carrots aren't working, so we probably do need sticks. This is a convenient one.
I have a team that I work with – many are on little above minimum wage. Due to the specialised nature of our work* and the remote location many of them have 45-60 min commute (cycling & public transport isn’t an option for most, and local housing is both unusual and very expensive).
Some have seen an increase of up to £80 a month in fuel alone for commuting, and for a lot of them, that is their total monthly disposable income. Most are trying to find second jobs.
Is car sharing an option ? I used to work 25 miles away. I picked up 2 colleagues on the way, one was 15 miles from work and one 5 miles. Split the fuel 3 ways . Saved money for all of us
Why are staff doing a...
nationally/globally important role in health protection in the south of England – civil service.
Only getting paid a...
little above minimum wage.
??
Sorry I know this is off topic, but if the job is that critical, then the people servicing it should be on a decent wage. Shopfloor work in Tesco's pays a fair bit over minimum and generally doesn't require a massive commute. People should vote with their feet more. This is probably far too simplistic an argument, feel free to flame away.
@thepodge & also filmed using a phone at the wheel in clip 2 on twitter 🤔 blows the "just using 2 lanes" statement out the water too, oh so clever..
This forum is not frequented by many that are really effected by these kinds of rises.
Similar issue here we have a number of staff wanting to relocate due to the rising costs. Problem is that’s not easy as others now won’t want to move due to the rising costs.
Sorry I know this is off topic, but if the job is that critical, then the people servicing it should be on a decent wage.
Welcome to the UK.
Social care / social works are paid a pittance.
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
I don’t think anyones assuming that. An electric car is way way out of my price range, but I’m lucky enough that I’m a namby pamby type who works from home and who’s car can go all week without moving
I don’t doubt for a minute that this is causing all manner of people genuine hardship.
It’s just difficult to see how driving slowly around the motorway is going to make any difference? They say they’re on a ‘go slow’ by keeping speeds down to 30mph. Most of the time on the M60 you can only dream of the adrenaline fuelled rush of a whole 30mph
All those protesters seem a bit, err, gammony.
Please don’t assume everyone can stop using fuel, or afford an electric car.
This 100%. If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they’ve completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
Yes, please don't make massive assumptions about the public because this other massive assumption about the public supports that view.
The people protesting are doing it for no other reason than to bolster their over inflated ego. Whether that is intentional or because their are too stupid to realise the Government and / or oil companies don't give a toss what they say, I'm not sure.
I have more sympathy for the eco lot but equally not sure the message is getting across how they would really like it to.
Dickyboy
filmed using a phone at the wheel
I notice a lack of seat belt too, looked like the police were tolerating them but I see now a few have been arrested and vehicles impounded for lack of tax and insurance.
I don’t doubt for a minute that this is causing all manner of people genuine hardship.
We (as in the company I work for) have done a fair bit of work on Transport Related Social Exclusion, the slight problem being that we can research it to death and find out the areas / demographics worst affected but we have no devolved powers to actually do anything about it.
It's Transport Poverty - people are forced into owning a car due to where they live/work, the lack of other options like affordable / reliable public transport, lack of active travel provision (and this includes safe cycle storage as well as the more obvious things like cycle lanes) and they end up working to pay for the car they need to go to work to pay for the car...
They can't afford a new car, they can't afford not to be working or to move house, it's not easy to "just" change jobs, especially at the lower wage end of the spectrum and they can't afford to travel to other opportunities like job interviews, more education, social events so they end up absolutely stuck in a spiral of cost pressures.
Add in things like ULEZ, congestion charging etc which a lot of cities are putting in now and the problem becomes worse again.
There's a protest fairly local to me (N of Inverness). That's in an area where driving isn't a luxury, it's a day-to-day necessity.
Also, the Govt really needs to increase the tax allowance for business mileage fuel allowance. It's crazy that my wife and her colleagues are being penalised for having to use their own cars for work.
they end up working to pay for the car they need to go to work to pay for the car…
I remember this from bus deregulation days under thatcher, car ownership went up but overall mobility went down, but measure of standard of living went up with car ownership 🙄
Without getting into whether or not it's a sane protest...
Protesting about the price of something you use is . .
Are people supposed to protest about prices of things they *don't* use?
If people feel things are too expensive, then I think it's okay for them to voice it, rather than just sucking it up.
What a prick.
https://twitter.com/johnpaulwright/status/1543845368378654720?s=21&t=KI5NaPu56SlkrMikx1UXPw
vehicles impounded for lack of tax and insurance.
Jebus wept, you couldn't make it up, could you? Going to a protest to burn more of the thing you're protesting about the price of, at a place that has ANPR and a police presence? You might want to check you're legal.
You might want to check you’re legal.
I think it's well established for the average man/woman in the street (or motorway) that "all guidance was followed and no rules were broken"... (or 1001 other lies and breaking the law by the government) so it's hardly surprising your average man/woman on the protest don't see it as important.
The jar of chutney or pickle someone mentioned was made from stuff on a farm, run on diesel.. transported to a warehouse by diesel then sent to a factory by diesel.. currently running at way more than petrol due to duty.
If that's not enough for mixed messages then we are promoting petrol burning over diesel with mixed messages anyway with pictures of Pandas... the same Pandas who's food is being taken no doubt for substitutes for synthetic materials... ?? Who's ecosystems along with those cute polar bears are threatened not by some particulates on the M6 but by the CO2 that is higher per kg/mile than diesel .. except particulates suddenly aren't important when for example artic's are forced through the built up M6 corridor over the M6 Toll through the toll charges...
At the same time our council has a green agenda .. this means getting cement made outside the borough (so zero carbon for our borough) to build skyscrapers whilst cutting down green areas and putting a token "green wall" - and are knocking down homes to build a dual carriageway right through the town centre and right through the middle of these new tower blocks!
I don't know how this all balances out ... I do know its not simply black and white
The DM gammon's are reacting with hate towards anyone in the story comments who says the drivers causing the blockage/go slow on fuel price protest should be arrested.
Funny lot. climate protestors are out, stop the oil protestors are out, rail strikers etc, but fuel protests, no matter how inconvenient to others they are getting right behind. 😆
From the lovely mail article, I've not even got to the comments yet
drives 30 miles to Cardiff for work daily, and said the cost is now 'upwards of £300' a week, having been around '£125 before the price increases'.
So unless he is telling porkies, he is refering to a point in time when fuel was about 80p/L
Anyone want to guess when that was?
Ha! What's he driving, a Veyron?
What the hell is that guy driving? If I was to drive to work every day my 100 mile round trip would cost about £100 per week (basically a tank of fuel)
What do you mean ‘unless’?
Seems an odd way to protest…
I believe the term is "Irony"... TBH, despite not being able to stump up for a shiny new Tesla or even a more fuel efficient ICE car right now, I'm glad petrol/diesel are getting prohibitivly expensive. it may well prompt governments (probably not this one, more likely who ever follows) to properly examine how vulnerable we are as a country to external influences on our energy sources and at the same time address the environmental impacts.
Still Mondeo man gotta Mondeo and your local Evri/Yodel parcel loser gotta hit those KPIs.
If the green lobby think a rise in fuel prices is a good thing then they’ve completely missed the point. The general public already think climate change and other environmental issues are for woke middle class liberals, so preaching to them about using less fuel is not exactly going to help is it?
I'm past caring what the Gammonry want TBH they've had their way a fair bit over the last few years and so far haven't improved anything for anyone.
Fine they can throw their toys out the pram again, complain about 'the wokes' and some imagined class warfare they're waging on, well, themselves it would appear. But current fuel prices are a symptom of short term, myopic thinking (plus a pandemic, plus a war) driving the world off a chuffing great cliff. but they can't top off their Van, my heart bleeds...
Bunch of ****ing morons are welcome to "protest" well until Pritti has them rounded up at least...
Of the people who need some sort of help right now; "motorway Man" who can afford to piss away a day dragging his arse over the severn bridge to make some sort of point is waaaay behind those queued up at food banks, struggling to afford housing, dealing with domestic abuse, those fleeing conflict and being sent to Rwanda, etc, etc on my Give-a-shit-o-meter that it makes me wonder how exactly they think anyone could feel any sympathy for them...
Genuine question, Who organised this little outing?
Edit:
US focussed but makes the point petrol/diesel prices are not as straight forwards as Bojo or Biden saying 'Yay' or 'Nay' to rises...
US focussed but makes the point petrol/diesel prices are not as straight forwards as Bojo or Biden saying ‘Yay’ or ‘Nay’ to rises…
Doesn't help that the £ has fallen to record lows against pretty much every other currency (and in fact I'd be willing to bet that all those gammons driving around at 20mph are all Leave voters...)
Oil is the world's most traded commodity so exchange rate fluctuations play a huge part in the end result of the pricing structure.
And cutting fuel taxes is a massive black hole to the treasury which absolutely can't afford cuts like that at the moment. In an ideal world, fuel tax would have followed inflation for the last 10-15 years, instead it's been kept at the same rate (cos "hard-working motorist") and now the price rise is coming all at once. There's been zero preparation for any sort of green future, cutting dependency on oil etc. Nothing.
Nothing.
So you've read UK PLC's long term energy strategy white paper.
One of their finest I believe.
I’m past caring what the Gammonry want
Don't confuse gammons with people who can't afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
The problem is due to decades of poor government policy, don't blame the poor sods at the bottom of the pile who are suffering most as a result of it.
Don’t confuse gammons with people who can’t afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
The problem is due to decades of poor government policy, don’t blame the poor sods at the bottom of the pile who are suffering most as a result of it.
This. As pointed out, for some folk, driving isn't a choice if they want an income, eat, support their families etc.
Don’t confuse gammons with people who can’t afford to move, or change transport methods or change jobs.
Indeed, but were the working poor the ones pissing about on the motorways today?
Such unpaid outings and fuel wastage are beyond the means of the genuinely poverty stricken... If you could afford to participate in this "protest" then you aren't the most needy...
We all know it was the Gammons, whether they self identify such or fein offence at the label. The emotional Oafs that appear to steer our country from disaster to disaster now, were out in force to express their displeasure at something that is affecting everyone, not just them, by making life harder for everyone... They have an M.O. but very little by way of a point.
If they'd really wanted to scare the oil companies today they should have all avoided purchasing fuel. Gone on a consumer strike, stayed home, not used a drop of fuel. Because they could all clearly afford to miss a day of work, despite the apparent poverty they're struggling with...
Well today I drove over the Severn Bridges 4 times.
Not one single queue or sign of a protest. Lots of Highway Wombles and Police vans though, the odd motorbike too.
It was today wasn't it?
If they’d really wanted to scare the oil companies today they should have all avoided purchasing fuel.
There's an obvious flaw in your plan.
Indeed, but were the working poor the ones pissing about on the motorways today?
You answered your question in the very next sentence.
i’ve noticed that when fuel is scarce people drive economically, but high prices don’t have the same result.
and what can the government do about fuel prices? reduce the tax, i suppose. that would leave even less money to run the country.
and what can the government do about fuel prices?
Have they suggested making bicyles pay road tax?
Have they suggested making bicyles pay road tax?
that’s brilliant
.
i’ve noticed that when fuel is scarce people drive economically, but high prices don’t have the same result.
Me too. I haven't seen any decrease in motorway speeds. I can only conclude that drivers who do 90mph in the outside lane can afford to do so however high the price of petrol goes.
You answered your question in the very next sentence.
Thanks, it's called a 'rhetorical question'.
My point stands though, today's "protestors" weren't those "at the bottom of the pile" just aimlessly angry men easily nudged into action by a FB group...
If they actually want to sort fuel prices they should take it up with Putin and OPEC, I'm still not clear how their little motorway tantrums helped the issue? Who was going to address their demands? The people they held up? the police? The government? (For clarity, another rhetorical question).
There’s an obvious flaw in your plan.
Well Duh. There's a flaw in any "plan" to "stick it to the man" (whoever you think that is) and somehow get cheap petrol back, you're complaining about the price of a restricted supply, high demand commodity in a country with a monstrous lob-on for the free market. The only two things that will dial that price back down are increased supply (and the people selling it control the supply) or a drop in demand, and demand isn't reducing is it? (another rhetorical question)
All Mondeo and Van man proved to shell/BP/Esso today was that people still really, really want petrol. Those companies and their shareholders aren't really known for their altruism. So I wouldn't hold your breath if you thought petrol was about to get cheaper, and we already know they're just fine with us all scrapping on the forecourts for that last half a gallon of dinosaur juice...
Interesting article explaining the impact on various people of the cost of fuel.
For the lady living in Jersey the cycle commute makes perfect sense as it's only about 12 miles across. Wonder how many people will look at alternative forms of transport.
I'd love to go back to having a cycle commute every day like I did pre-pandemic but the housing, more precisely the rental, crisis is preventing me from moving closer to my new job so forcing me to use a tank of fuel every week just to get to and from work. I'm in the double whammy of having to drive my car a lot more just so I can earn and the fuel price being so high making it financially unsustainable.
Something has to change but I agree that these protests are not going to do anything.
Unless we stop burning fossil fuels large parts of the world are going to become uninhabitable within our lifetimes. Thats the basic fact.
Governments have been universally useless in dealing with this.
Fuel / motoring is far too cheap and indeed is cheaper now compared to wages than anytime since the 70s oil price shock ( well until the latest rises)
But these protests show the political impossibility of actually doing something about it.
Still. I'll be dead in 25 years and have no kids. It matters not to me. But those of you with kids why are you not protesting the pollution that causes global warming that will destroy your kids lives?
why are you not protesting the pollution that causes global warming that will destroy your kids lives?
Because it won't make any difference. What we can can do is change our lifestyles as best we can and bring out kids up responsibly. And only have two.
We need government to change things, we can't lay all the blame at the door of the helpless fools.
Unless we stop burning fossil fuels large parts of the world are going to become uninhabitable within our lifetimes. Thats the basic fact.
No it's not a basic fact .. a more accurate way to put it is if we carry on doing all the same things and we have a couple of volcano's erupt large parts of the earth will be unpleasant. Even for recent history we are far below the Paleocene and Eocene global temperatures where life flourished.
The "government" have made up a phrase "climate emergency" whatever that means but their actions don't actually show them to be prioritising it so what is Mondeo man or white transit man meant to think??
Obviously we need to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions but government policy is to do the opposite in many ways.. if they were serious they would be prioritising diesel use over petrol rather than the other way around and encouraging ICE vehicles to take the most efficient routes but they are doing entirely the opposite. It seems the tree huggers lobby has convinced people that particulates are somehow the same as greenhouse gasses.... our current government is more than happy to oblige and keep encouraging party donors to burn peatlands to provide grouse shooting.
(This isn't to say particulate pollution is not a bad thing, just that it is not the same thing and anyone can check given a prompt and access to t'internet)
People are getting tired of obviously false statements and use of these to greenwash and justify what are obviously policies and actions by government (down to local) that are obviously in direct opposition to addressing anthropomorphic climate change. It is as I pointed out earlier in the eyes of many no different from "cheese and wine and no rules were broken" (which is simply divisive since a fair proportion of people don't even care if the government can follow its own rules) or if you prefer £265M on the side of a bus..
As I mentioned earlier my local council made a huge deal (paid FB ads through a PR consultancy) about putting in a greenwall... they said nothing about knocking down perfectly good housing or the millions of tons of concrete to build unnecessary skyscrapers that the greenwall is part of. Of course that concrete isn't produced in the borough so it is not included in their carbon accounting and other places are taking the hit.
Ultimately mondeo man and white van man are being lied to on all sides... ONE of these is an immediate effect for them... it's hardly surprising they lean in the direction saves them money and preserves their standard of living in the short term.
cookea
My point stands though, today’s “protestors” weren’t those “at the bottom of the pile” just aimlessly angry men easily nudged into action by a FB group…
Isn't that the "train drivers shouldn't strike for the much lower paid workers as they are raking it in" argument?
Global warming will make large parts of the planet uninhabitable in a gerneration. That is a fact. Its even happening in Europe.
Drought and extreme temps in france and Spain. Water shortages in the US. Desertification in africa.
Stop burying your heads in the sand. Its happening now