"– …girls and **** ’em at school<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />All I know is that<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />There were rumours he was into field hockey players<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />There were rumours<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />– So I applied basically<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />– He was gone the next day<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />– And went off with the team<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />– It’s like – he was gone – they’d just like<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />It was like; so hush hush<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />They were so… quiet about it<br style="box-sizing: border-box; --tw-translate-x: 0; --tw-translate-y: 0; --tw-rotate: 0; --tw-skew-x: 0; --tw-skew-y: 0; --tw-scale-x: 1; --tw-scale-y: 1; --tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; --tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; --tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; --tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); --tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; --tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, 'Noto Sans', sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol', 'Noto Color Emoji';" />And then the next thing you know…"
I just wanted to say that I get the reference 🙂
Glad you do
Just because you may get a difficult response isn’t a reason to avoid the conversation, especially when the other party is one of your lifelong friends.
Perhaps. But it is a reason to tread carefully rather than jump to a binary conclusion that most posters - myself included - have come to.
OP has said that she’s like a sister. If you heard a rumour that your brother-in-law was being unfaithful to your sister would you keep schtum or have a discrete word?
As above really, it depends. I know couples who I would consider both halves to be friends. But I'm struggling offhand to think of many who I'd likely stay in contact with both halves of if they were to split up. That would likely influence any action I might take. A discreet word, maybe, "mate, you know these rumours are going around?" I'd be unlikely to directly dob someone in without first having actual confirmation that it's definitely true and giving them a chance to do the right thing.
In the scenario you describe, what if the "BIL" is your best mate of 40 years? You tell your "sister," she sees her arse with him; divorce, custody battles for the kids, financial worries, homelessness even, and at some point she lets slip how she knows.
Doing the right thing might well be, well, doing the right thing but the potential for carnage is very high indeed. Up to and including losing a lifelong friend. All because, what, your mate was an idiot who wanted to get his dick wet and you just had to intervene? I'm not sure as I could live with the responsibility of that personally, I think I'd rather be grumped at for feigning ignorance. If the truth does out - as it surely will eventually - perhaps they might both need a friend to talk to, a mediator even. That's probably a better use of my time.
It's easy to take the moral highground when it's hypothetical rather than impacting real lives. As is often the case, simple questions have complex answers.
It’s easy to take the moral highground when it’s hypothetical rather than impacting real lives.
**** off Cougar, there's no way the usual suspects are taking the moral high ground! This is not the wa..oh wait. Nevermind.
Carry on.
Pretty sure voyeurism is illegal.
but it’s ok if you’re dogging.
tour the local dogging hotspots a see if you spot them
I’d be unlikely to directly dob someone in without first having actual confirmation that it’s definitely true and giving them a chance to do the right thing.
TBH who gives anyone the right to be the arbitrator of the 'right thing' ?
Effectively this is blackmailing your friend that he should do what 'you' feel is the right thing.
The thing I have learned about friends is that you have to accept them with their imperfections as they are probably extending that courtesy to you.
Effectively this is blackmailing your friend that he should do what ‘you’ feel is the right thing.
You might think that at first, but on reflection if the rumours are true then effectively your friend is blackmailing you into being untruthful to his wife. He has chosen that situation - not you and not his wife.
W+1
W+1
But unlike bikes where n+1 holds true until S-1 is reached, W+1 is also commonly equal to S according to values preached by some bloke in the desert a few thousand years ago after he went on a multi day bender up a mountain.
You might think that at first, but on reflection if the rumours are true then effectively your friend is blackmailing you into being untruthful to his wife. He has chosen that situation – not you and not his wife.
What? That's some proper mental gymnastics there.
You might think that at first, but on reflection if the rumours are true then effectively your friend is blackmailing you into being untruthful to his wife.
I disagree, if the friend is doing the dirty, he might think he's very discreet and you should have no idea... so there's no blackmail, just a lot of assumptions all round.
But I will qualify this by saying, it's a very tricky situation. I don't think there really is a correct course of action with things like this, you want to act in good faith, but as others have said, you're dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.
The logical thing to do in such a situation would be to realise this, mentaly step back a bit, and gather more information before acting on rumour and saying something that cannot later be un-said.
I mean, ok, it does sound really fishy, but I also know how work place gossip can go from zero to a million with very little provocation.
I also know how work place gossip can go from zero to a million with very little provocation
And a singletrack discussion.
I'm all for frozen sausages from the get go and to hell with whoever gets caught in the crossfire.
I'm not actually, sounds like a very delicate situation.
I also know how work place gossip can go from zero to a million with very little provocation.
Yes you are right about that, it might be completely untrue and he deserves the chance to deal with unfounded rumours or to deal with the fact his affair has become common knowledge.
there’s no blackmail, just a lot of assumptions all round.
If you read through the previous posts about “blackmail” it is stated that in case he admits the affair then asking him to “do the right thing” is blackmail.
Let’s be clear, it is not blackmail. If he won’t “do the right thing” and he expects the OP to keep quiet about it too, then he is asking the OP to lie to the wife who is also a close friend. Nobody has precipitated that situation except him starting the affair - no matter how discrete he naively thought he would be.
@OllyTheOp! So, other than winning Thread of the Year - what's your decision as I'm keen to know which direction you went and how it turns out (sorry, yes, I know this is peoples lives but no reason we can't get some entertainment ad it unfolds!)
And a singletrack discussion.
I’m all for frozen sausages from the get go and to hell with whoever gets caught in the crossfire.
I’m not actually, sounds like a very delicate situation.
Agree, a Richmond sausage would be a very bad idea in such a delicatessen situation. You's need an artisan free range sausage for a job like that.
Or, (I've had a drink, but my idea is sound)...
politecameraactionFree Member
The coward’s halfway point between doing nothing and exploding hand grenades is speaking to Rob. I suggest you approach it Father Ted style: “I hear you’re a shagger now, Father?”
A bit of a spin on the Vince/Mia convo from pulp fiction... if the OP does decide to confront 'Rob'....
he is asking the OP to lie to the wife who is also a close friend
Except, that's not the case is it. Do you routinely go about vocalising every random thought that passes through your head to anyone who will listen? Not wanting to get involved isn't lying.
If the wife confronts the OP directly then that's a different story (and that being the case the horse has already bolted).
Let’s be clear, it is not blackmail. If he won’t “do the right thing” and he expects the OP to keep quiet about it too, then he is asking the OP to lie to the wife who is also a close friend. Nobody has precipitated that situation except him starting the affair – no matter how discrete he naively thought he would be.
Don’t forget the “dobbing bit” and “giving a chance” that’s the threat of exposure of the affair that IMHO is the blackmail bit and probably the death of the friendship.
Well assuming the traipsing around the dogging zones prove fruitless for the op.
If the wife confronts the OP directly then that’s a different story (and that being the case the horse has already bolted).
Awkward 🙂
Most definitely that’s game over if your ever asked that question,even if you answer that you didn’t think so and honestly didn’t.
who gives anyone the right to be the arbitrator of the ‘right thing’ ?
This is the scary thing about life, man, you've gotta decide for yourself.
(Unless you've got a friendly priest or rabbi, maybe you can ask them).
Do you routinely go about vocalising every random thought that passes through your head to anyone who will listen? Not wanting to get involved isn’t lying.
Also this, if you are asked a direct question from Emma or Rob, answer frankly and truthfully.
Otherwise, I would just observe for now. They might be compelling rumours, but they are just that.
Invite bob and his missus round for a roast.
Once a couple of bottles in, jovially ask Bob's missus if she's heard the rumours about her fella at his work, scoffing at the idea and watching Bob squirm.
– you may have a statutory obligation to report it (as May all the rumour spreaders)
Under what law? I didn’t think healthcare workers even had a mandatory reporting duty for neglect etc to children?
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication. I’m sure other professional bodies will have similar requirements.
im not sure why suella thinks this needs beefing up, probably to try and make it seem like teachers are to blame. If I was giving her the benefit of the doubt she’s trying to make sure people report stuff that raises an eyebrow but doesn’t get acted on rather than stuff that’s bad enough for people to be whispering about. Perhaps it’s just that being struck off isn’t enough sanction for her.
This is probably the worst episode of Moral Maze yet
Invite bob and his missus round for a roast.
Errm...
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication. I’m sure other professional bodies will have similar requirements
We're on smoko, leave us alone!
Solved it. The Op is Rob*. Where do I claim my £5.
*Conspiracy theory based on a rumour I heard at work.
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication
Possibly Rule 16 if the suggestion really were that they were having skiving when they were supposed to be at work and it were endangering patients - which is a bit of a stretch based on the facts. But Rule 20 - uphold the reputation of the profession? For consensual private conduct between two adults? Absolutely no way.
go to HR to get it sorted
Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth ...
This is the scary thing about life, man, you’ve gotta decide for yourself.
Eh? So what is STW for, then ?
It’s the place where you learn all those moral things - like the equation of how old your girl/boy friend can be 🙂
Solved it. The Op is Rob*. Where do I claim my £5.
Plot twist...OP is the wife, the real Rob is a regular forum poster who is now trying to figure out where it all went wrong
Edit - or it's one of those posts where Rob is Israel and something to do with the Gaza Strip...
something to do with the Gaza Strip
Dancing round a roast chicken and a bottle of whisky whilst off your tits on coke?
Is she called Louise?
id say under rules 16 and 20 of the NMC code of conduct a nurse would have an obligation to report colleagues who were shagging in the car park when they were meant to me looking after patients, which was the implication.
Ive seen several cases when this has happened. HR and management get involved. Both are usually sent to the far reaches of the service never to be seen again. Registerd nurses are often reported to NMC as well depending on circumstances
But Rule 20 – uphold the reputation of the profession? For consensual private conduct between two adults? Absolutely no way.
getting frisky in the car park when supposed to be working would appear to damage the reputation of nurses… of course that might not be what the OP meant with his opening post “Apparently he disappears at night to his car when she’s on shift “cause his back hurts””
having an affair is clearly not bringing nursing into disrepute; but antics in the car park when you are meant to be working would seem like it to me.
I think I’d rather be grumped at for feigning ignorance
I think this is a bit of a cowardly way out.
For me, it's a pain, but simple:
1) Tell your mate that there are rumours going around that he's knobbing Shirley. Ask him if it's true and say to him - if it's true, you need to sort the situation out as you know I'm good friends with your wife too and that puts me in a really difficult position.
2) Then you leave it for "a bit". It'll probably get sorted. You can pick up the pieces. If she asks you if you knew - you can say you'd heard a rumour, confronted him, asked him to sort it out of respect for you.
3) If it carries on for a long time (you decide) have another word and give him more time to sort it. If he refuses, then he's treating a mate of yours completely unacceptably when you've done the right thing. Ergo, he's not worth protecting.
HOWEVER: As someone else said, there's very rarely couple-friends where you don't have a primary loyalty. If he's more your mate than her, then you side with him, not her. Or vice-versa.
I think this is a bit of a cowardly way out<br /><br />
I don’t think it’s cowardly to refrain from setting yourself up as moral judge and jury over somebody else’s lives. I think it’s incredibly presumptuous to be talking about giving someone deadlines to conform to our ideas of morality.
I don’t think it’s cowardly to refrain from setting yourself up as moral judge and jury over somebody else’s lives.
@DrJ I think it's cowardly to ignore a friend who's being ****ed over. You're not doing what a friend should do.
The above is the moral judgement. I'm not making a moral judgement on him having an affair - all's fair in love and war eh? But if you're friends with the other party, and you're not looking out for them then the moral judgement I'm making is that you're not being a very good friend unless you attempt to help her out.
For me, in the situation as described, my hands would be tied. Morally, I'd have to act.
To show it from the other side:
I had two friends once who'd heard a girlfriend of mine was knobbing someone else. One of them told me as soon as he found out. The other had known for a while but didn't want to get involved.
I'm still friends with one of them.
I think it’s cowardly to ignore a friend who’s being ****ed over. You’re not doing what a friend should do.
I think we're repeating ourselves - well I am, at any rate. It's not up to you to impose your moral judgement and your clumsy solution on someone else's lives. @nickc said this better than me in this post, and similar ones:
They’re going to find out at some point. Affairs always end like that. So either one of two things happen, You throw a hand grenade into the middle of three people’s lives when they re totally unprepared for it and figurately walk away, you don’t have to deal with the consequences and fall out or the hurt and devastation that it causes, but get to sleep soundly at night in a sort of Kantian “truth must out” bubble, or the alternative is that three people destroy their own lives, or by themselves in a time that they choose, they figure it out amongst themselves and maybe resolve it without a fourth person who has no skin in the game whatsoever, sticking their oar in occasionally.
Affairs go on for decades. The unsuspecting partner is living a lie and they don't know it.
He's made a moral choice to not give a monkeys about his partner when he's knobbing someone else. Fair enough.
But it's still cowardly to not help a friend out when you know they're being ****ed over in one of the worst ways.
The solution is to give the person who's being a dick a choice - a choice to resolve it with the minimum amount of hurt to all parties, in whatever way they think best.
I'm glad that the person who knew my girlfriend was shagging someone else told me. Because whilst she was shagging someone else she was talking about having babies with me.
And if we'd had a kid - A) would it have been mine? and B) if it was and we split up - I'd have been financially liable for it.
So no. People don't have affairs in a moral vaccum to be ignored by other people. You are a coward if you don't help your friends.
